Did Gloria Calvery almost catch up to Marion Baker?

[Thomas Graves]

[...]

[shelley's and Lovelady's] trip to the parking lot is dependent on speaking to Gloria Calvery.

[...]

I disagree, Robert. They could have decided to walk in that direction all by dem widdle selves.

Just because they said that they had encountered Gloria doesn't prove that they actually encountered her on the "island" or on the steps, or anywhere else for that matter.

Shelley said in his affidavit that he encountered her on the "island" a few seconds after the assassination. Do you think he should have said "a couple of minutes after the final shot," instead? Can you find Calvery, standing where she said she was standing on Elm Street, during the motorcade? Remember, Hicks, Reed, and Westbrook all told the FBI that they were with her, and she told the FBI that she was with them. Can you find Hicks, Reed, or Westbrook during the motorcade? If so, then you can probably find Calvery! When you do so, try to determine from the photographic record where she went after the final shot. Can you prove that way that she went to the "island" a few seconds after the final shot, or if you prefer, a couple of minutes later? Or that she went "on back up" the steps about three minutes later as Lovelady said she had? (Which do you prefer, a few seconds or a couple of minutes? Which works best for you?)

How could she have motivated them to go the parking lot, anyway? Going from memory here, but didn't Shelley say he thought the shots had come from the west? If so, couldn't that (and the running policeman -- not Baker) have motivated him to walk towards the parking lot, and for Lovelady to tag along behind his supervisor?

I prefer to go with what my eyes "tell" me, Robert,and my eyes can and do see Shelley and Lovelady walking / running down Elm Street Extension towards the parking lot.

You know, I'm getting kinda tired of this, so I ain't gonna argue with about it no mo.

I've already told you what to look for (Shelley's hairdo, Lovelady's bald forehead, etc, etc) in that part of C / D, and I've told you how to do it. I know it ain't easy because it requires watching that blown-up part of the clip in slow motion over and over again (if you can find it), and the hardest thing of all is that it requires an open mind.

BTW, when are you going to tell us, in some detail, what you think Baker and Truly did for the first five minutes or so after the final shot?

Thanks,

--Tommy

Edited September 3, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Robert Prudhomme]

Once again, Thomas, you are taking liberties with the affidavits. I cannot tell if it is intentional or otherwise but, I believe you owe it to the readers of this thread to research your material more closely.

Nowhere in Shelley's statement does it say how much time elapsed between the time of the last shot and him encountering Gloria Calvery on the concrete island.

Shelley did NOT say he thought the shots came from the west. To quote his affidavit, "I couldn't tell where they were coming from."

If you believe Shelley's encounter with Gloria Calvery on the concrete island was a fabrication, answer me this: Why would Shelley lie about meeting Calvery in his first day statement? Why would he lie about meeting her on the concrete island?

I'm sorry but, Gloria Calvery seems to be a very real part of this event, and even if she was up near the concrete island, and did not have to run up from below, there still is not enough time for the meeting with her before Baker arrives.

Speaking of open minds, you just can't grasp that the walkabout to the rail yard was fabricated, long after their statements were given, in order to discredit Victoria Adams' storyand to keep her from destroying the myth of the second floor lunch room encounter, can you.

[Thomas Graves]

Dear Robert,

Did I claim that Shelley said he thought the shots had come "from the west" in his affidavit? Or did you infer that? (For the umpteenth time)

I said I was going from memory, and it turns out I was right. He said that in his WC testimony:

Mr. BALL - Did you se the motorcade pass?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - What did you hear?
Mr. SHELLEY - Well, I heard something sounded like it was a firecracker and a slight pause and then two more a little bit closer together.
Mr. BALL - And then?
Mr. SHELLEY - I didn't think anything about it.
Mr. BALL - What did it sound like to you?
Mr. SHELLEY - Sounded like a miniature cannon or baby giant firecracker, wasn't real loud.
Mr. BALL - What happened; what did you do then?
Mr. SHELLEY - I didn't do anything for a minute.
Mr. BALL - What seemed to be the direction or source of the sound:?
Mr. SHELLEY - Sounded like it came from the west.
Mr. BALL - It sounded like it came from the west?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/shelley1.htm

As regards the timing of his encounter with "Calvery" on the island,

"I heard what sounded like three shots. I couldn't tell where they were coming from. I ran across the street to the corner of the park ..." [emphasis added]

http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth337377/m1/1/

OK, so I should have said he "suggested" or "implied" he had gone over to the island a few seconds after the final shot. It sure sounds to me as though that's what he did because 1 ) if he had waited until two or three minutes later to go there, I think he would have mentioned what he had done or seen during the intervening period of time he was (allegedly) on the steps, and 2 ) he would have said that he walked across the street instead of ran. But I'm willing to take it a "step" farther, because I don't think Shelley actually went to the "island." I think he and Lovelady started walking towards the parking lot, saw Running Woman not far from the "island," and either confused RW for Gloria Calvery, or started lying about having "encountered" Calvery, in a radically changing series of affidavits and oral testimonies, and that's what I going to continue to believe unless and until you can come up with photographic evidence indicating Calvery's or Shelley's presence on the "island," or definitive photographic proof of Lovelady's or Shelley's presence "elsewhere" in Couch / Darnell or in any other contemporaneous photos or films.

Why would Shelley suddenly run across the street to the "island" two or three minutes after the final shot? Because Gloria had finally gotten there, and he saw her, and ran across to talk with her? Or do you think he went over to the "island" a few seconds after the final shot?

What do you believe, anyway?

--Tommy

Edited September 4, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Robert Prudhomme]

Radically changing series of affidavits and oral testimonies?? Thomas, I have only been able to find ONE affidavit from Bill Shelley. Are there more I don't know about? Yes, his testimony to the WC was radically different but, that was months later. His affidavit was taken on the day of the assassination and, as far as I am aware, was the only affidavit he gave that day.

"I ran across the street to the corner of the park and ran into a girl crying and she said the President had been shot. This girl's name is Gloria Calvery who is an employee of this same building."

Not only was Bill Shelley the best man at Gloria Calvery's wedding just a few months previous, implying that he and her husband were quite good friends and the three were very well acquainted with each other, it appears Bill and Gloria had worked together for some time in the TSBD and likely saw each other daily.

Do you really think that, from a distance of 8-10 feet (or less!) that Bill Shelley would have mistaken the running woman for Gloria Calvery?

Give me ONE reason Bill Shelley would have lied, and said he ran into Gloria Calvery crying at the corner of the park, instead of stating in his affidavit that she ran by on the OPPOSITE side of the Elm St. extension, screaming the news of the assassination.

How far are you willing to go to support Gerda Dunckel's erroneous conclusion that Shelley and Lovelady were captured in the Darnell/Couch film walking down the Elm St. extension, when this conclusion only supports the WC's version of events, and discredits Victoria Adams' testimony?

Edited September 4, 2015 by Robert Prudhomme

[Thomas Graves]

Radically changing series of affidavits and oral testimonies?? Thomas, I have only been able to find ONE affidavit from Bill Shelley. Are there more I don't know about? Yes, his testimony to the WC was radically different but, that was months later. His affidavit was taken on the day of the assassination and, as far as I am aware, was the only affidavit he gave that day.

"I ran across the street to the corner of the park and ran into a girl crying and she said the President had been shot. This girl's name is Gloria Calvery who is an employee of this same building."

Not only was Bill Shelley the best man at Gloria Calvery's wedding just a few months previous, implying that he and her husband were quite good friends and the three were very well acquainted with each other, it appears Bill and Gloria had worked together for some time in the TSBD and likely saw each other daily.

Do you really think that, from a distance of 8-10 feet (or less!) that Bill Shelley would have mistaken the running woman for Gloria Calvery?

Give me ONE reason Bill Shelley would have lied, and said he ran into Gloria Calvery crying at the corner of the park, instead of stating in his affidavit that she ran by on the OPPOSITE side of the Elm St. extension, screaming the news of the assassination.

How far are you willing to go to support Gerda Dunckel's erroneous conclusion that Shelley and Lovelady were captured in the Darnell/Couch film walking down the Elm St. extension, when this conclusion only supports the WC's version of events, and discredits Victoria Adams' testimony?

Bob,

Try following the instructions and tips I gave you. (Maybe you haven't had your eyes checked recently and / or can't find the blown up, slo-mo version of the clip?)

You recently needed my help to see "Gloria Calvery" behind "Aurelia Alonzo." Maybe if you follow my instructions again, you will eventually be able to make out Shelley and Lovelady walking down or across Elm Street Extension in C/D !

BTW, I'm, fairly confident that Shelley and Lovelady would have recognized Gloria Calvery, if they had encountered her.

Have you found the "real" Gloria Calvery watching the motorcade down on Elm Street or on the "corner of the park" yet?

Is she visible in this Wiegman clip which was stabilized by the evil evil Gerda Dunckel?:

--Tommy

Edited September 4, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

PS It's always possible that Lovelady and Shelley only thought it was Gloria Calvery who was running past them yelling "The President's been shot!" as they walked down Elm Street Extension towards the railway yard / parking lot a few seconds after the assassination. The fact that they misidentified Calvery or created the Calvery story out of whole cloth (dummies -- why even mention her at all, Bill Shelley? -- because since you'd been "best man" at her wedding you figured she'd prevaricate for you?) argues for the fact that they'd only gotten a glimpse of Running Woman -- mistaking her for Gloria Calvery -- in passing, and that they didn't talk with either of them on the "island" a few seconds after the assassination or on the steps some three minutes (as Lovelady said) after it. William Shelley blew it when he mentioned Calvery's name in his 11/22/63 statement, but the half-truth he did tell is fascinating-- that he [and the unmentioned Lovelady] left the steps right away and "encountered Calvery" -- the streaking-past-them-Running Woman] "on" / near / across from the "island" as they were walking down the Elm Street Extension towards the railway yard. Little (pardon the pun) did they know that some fifty years later some guys and gals on the Internet would figure out that they had left the steps almost immediately after the shooting, and that the screaming, running woman they thought was Gloria Calvery really wasn't Calvery after all. And that we would eventually figure out that they had lied, Lovelady in particular, in order to twist Vicki Adam's story in such a way as to give Oswald enough time to sneak down the stairs without being seen by Adams and Styles.

Shelley's typed 11/22/63 affidavit. In it he says he ran across to the "corner of the park" (i.e., the "island") and encountered a crying Gloria Calvery there who told him the President had been shot. He says he went back inside the building and called his wife and was then told to guard the elevator on the first floor, but that he left it in charge of Jack Dougherty and went up to the upper floors with some police officers.

http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth337377/m1/1/

In his first affidavit (handwritten) of 11/22/63, Lovelady says nothing about leaving the steps and walking / running down to "the corner of the park" or the railway yard / parking lot, nor anything about Gloria Calvery. Just, "After it was over we went back inside the building and went to work. [sic] took some police officers up to search the building."

http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth338698/m1/1/?q=lovelady

Lovelady's second affidavit (typed) of 11/22/63 said the same, except in it he says "We went back inside the building and I took some policemen up to search the building." Still nothing about leaving the front steps and walking / running down to the railway yard. Nor anything about encountering Gloria Calvery on or near the "island." Lovelady didn't mention any of that until he gave his WC testimony about half a year later.

http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth338214/m1/1/?q=lovelady

From Lovelady's WC testimony:

Mr. BALL - Draw an arrow down to that; do it in the dark. You got an arrow in the dark and one in the white pointing toward you. Where were you when the picture was taken?

Mr. LOVELADY - Right there at the entrance of the building standing on the the step, would be here (indicating).

Mr. BALL - You were standing on which step?

Mr. LOVELADY - It would be your top level.

Mr. BALL - The top step you were standing there?

Mr. LOVELADY - Right.

Mr. BALL - Now, when Gloria came up you were standing near Mr. Shelley?

Mr. LOVELADY - Yeah. ["Yeah" sounds like a prevarication here. Why not, "Yes", "Right", or "Yes, sir" like all of his other affirmative answers? This is the only "yeah" in his testimony.]

Mr. BALL - When Gloria came up and said the President had been shot, Gloria Calvary, what did you do?

Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I asked who told her. She said he had been shot so we asked her was she for certain or just had she seen the shot hit him or--she said yes, she had been right close to it to see and she had saw the blood and knew he had been hit but didn't know how serious it was and so the crowd had started towards the railroad tracks back, you know, behind our building there and we run towards that little, old island and kind of down there in that little street. We went as far as the first tracks and everybody was hollering and crying and policemen started running out that way and we said we better get back into the building, so we went back into the west entrance on the back dock had that low ramp and went into the back dock back inside the building.

Mr. BALL - First of all, let's get you to tell us whom you left the steps with.

Mr. LOVELADY - Mr. Shelley.

Mr. BALL - Shelley and you went down how far?

Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I would say a good 75, between 75 to 100 yards to the first tracks. See how those tracks goes---

Mr. BALL - You went down the dead end on Elm?

Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.

Mr. BALL - And down to the first tracks?

Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.

Mr. BALL - Did you see anything there?

Mr. LOVELADY - No, sir; well, just people running.

Mr. BALL - That's all?

Mr. LOVELADY - And hollerin.

Mr. BALL - How did you happen to go down there?

Mr. LOVELADY - I don't know, because everybody was running from that way and naturally, I guess---

Mr. BALL - They were running from that way or toward that way?

Mr. LOVELADY - Toward that way; everybody thought it was coming from that direction.

Mr. BALL - By the time you left the steps had Mr. Truly entered the building?

Mr. LOVELADY - As we left the steps I would say we were at least 15. maybe 25. steps away from the building. I looked back and I saw him and the policeman running into the building.

Mr. BALL - How many steps?

Mr. LOVELADY - Twenty, 25.

Mr. BALL - Steps away and you looked back and saw him enter the building?

Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.

Mr. BALL - Then you came back. How long did you stay around the railroad tracks?

Mr. LOVELADY - Oh, just a minute, maybe minute and a half.

Mr. BALL - Then what did you do?

Mr. LOVELADY - Came back right through that part where Mr. Campbell, Mr. Truly, and Mr. Shelley park their cars and I came back inside the building.

Mr. BALL - And enter from the rear?

Mr. LOVELADY - Yes, sir; sure did.

Mr. BALL - You heard the shots. And how long after that was it before Gloria Calvary came up?

Mr. LOVELADY - Oh, approximately 3 minutes, I would say.

Mr. BALL - Three minutes is a long time.

Mr. LOVELADY - Yes, it's---I say approximately; I can't say because I don't have a watch; it could.

Mr. BALL - Had people started to run?

Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I couldn't say because she came up to us and we was talking to her, wasn't looking that direction at that time, but when we came off the steps--see, that entrance, you have a blind side when you go down the steps.

Mr. BALL - Right after you talked to Gloria, did you leave the steps and go toward the tracks?

Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.

Mr. BALL - Did you run or walk?

Mr. LOVELADY - Medium trotting or fast walk.

Mr. BALL - A fast walk?

Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.

Mr. BALL - How did you happen to turn around and see Truly and the policeman go into the building?

Mr. LOVELADY - Somebody hollered and I looked.

Mr. BALL - You turned around and looked?

Mr. LOVELADY - Yes.

Mr. BALL - After you ran to the railroad tracks you came back and went in the back door of the building?

Mr. LOVELADY - Right.

Mr. BALL - Did you go in through the docks, the wide open door or did you go in the ordinary Small door?

Mr. LOVELADY - You know where we park our trucks--that door; we have a little door.

Mr. BALL - That is where you went in, that little door?

Mr. LOVELADY - That's right.

Mr. BALL - That would be the north end of the building?

Mr. LOVELADY - That would be the west end, wouldn't it?

Mr. BALL - Is it the one right off Houston Street?

Mr. LOVELADY - No; you are thinking about another dock.

Mr. BALL - I am?

Mr. LOVELADY - Yes; we have two.

Mr. BALL - Do you have a dock on the west side and one on the north side of the building?

Mr. LOVELADY - East, and well, it would be east and west but you enter it from the south side.

Mr. BALL - Now, the south side---

Mr. LOVELADY - Elm Street is that little dead-end street.

Mr. BALL - That's south.

Mr. LOVELADY - I drive my truck here (indicating) but we came in from this direction; that would have to be west.

Mr. BALL - You came into the building from the west side?

Mr. LOVELADY - Right.

Mr. BALL - Where did you go into the building?

Mr. LOVELADY - Through that, those raised-up doors.

Mr. BALL - Through the raised-up doors?

Mr. LOVELADY - Through that double door that we in the morning when we get there we raised. There's a fire door and they have two wooden doors between it.

Mr. BALL - You came in through the first floor?

Mr. LOVELADY - Right.

Mr. BALL - Who did you see in the first floor?

Mr. LOVELADY - I saw a girl but I wouldn't swear to it it's Vickie.

Mr. BALL - Who is Vickie?

[excellent question, Mr. Ball, but you shoulda then asked Billy, "Why did you even bring her name up before I asked you, you big dummy, and why wouldn't you swear it was her -- afraid of perjuring yourself, are you? -- Who told you it was Vicki, anyway? -- Shelley? Bill Decker? Joe Civello?]

--Tommy

Edit: As though Lovelady would have timed, with his watch, how long it took Gloria Calvery to run up to him and Shelley on the steps if he had had a watch. What a lame response to Ball's statement, "Three minutes is a long time." LOL !

Likewise, what lame excuses by Lovelady for "not noticing" whether or not people had started running by the time Calvery came up to them. What a p-r-e-v-a-r-i-c-a-t-o-r Lovelady was!

edited and bumped

Edited September 4, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

Radically changing series of affidavits and oral testimonies?? Thomas, I have only been able to find ONE affidavit from Bill Shelley. Are there more I don't know about? Yes, his testimony to the WC was radically different but, that was months later. His affidavit was taken on the day of the assassination and, as far as I am aware, was the only affidavit he gave that day.

"I ran across the street to the corner of the park and ran into a girl crying and she said the President had been shot. This girl's name is Gloria Calvery who is an employee of this same building."

Not only was Bill Shelley the best man at Gloria Calvery's wedding just a few months previous, implying that he and her husband were quite good friends and the three were very well acquainted with each other, it appears Bill and Gloria had worked together for some time in the TSBD and likely saw each other daily.

Do you really think that, from a distance of 8-10 feet (or less!) that Bill Shelley would have mistaken the running woman for Gloria Calvery?

Give me ONE reason Bill Shelley would have lied, and said he ran into Gloria Calvery crying at the corner of the park, instead of stating in his affidavit that she ran by on the OPPOSITE side of the Elm St. extension, screaming the news of the assassination.

How far are you willing to go to support Gerda Dunckel's erroneous conclusion that Shelley and Lovelady were captured in the Darnell/Couch film walking down the Elm St. extension, when this conclusion only supports the WC's version of events, and discredits Victoria Adams' testimony?

Bob,

Try following the instructions and tips I gave you. (Maybe you haven't had your eyes checked recently and / or can't find the blown up, slo-mo version of the clip?)

You recently needed my help to see "Gloria Calvery" behind "Aurelia Alonzo." Maybe if you follow my instructions again, you will eventually be able to make out Shelley and Lovelady walking down or across Elm Street Extension in C/D !

BTW, I'm, fairly confident that Shelley and Lovelady would have recognized Gloria Calvery, if they had encountered her.

Have you found the "real" Gloria Calvery watching the motorcade down on Elm Street or on the "corner of the park" yet?

Is she visible in this Couch / Darnell clip which was stabilized by the evil evil Gerda Dunckel?:

--Tommy

edited and bumped

Edited September 4, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Robert Prudhomme]

Once again, why do you think Shelley would have lied about encountering Gloria Calvery out on the concrete island, Thomas?

[Robert Prudhomme]

And, has it ever occurred to you that, while Baker was running up to the steps, Shelley had not left the steps yet, and Gloria Calvery had not made it all the way to the concrete island yet?

[Thomas Graves]

Once again, why do you think Shelley would have lied about encountering Gloria Calvery out on the concrete island, Thomas?

I have no idea, Robert.

To "cover" for her while she was doing something, somewhere else?

Beats the heck out of me.

Let us know when you find her in the photographs or films.

--Tommy

PS -- Could that be her, running down the Elm Street Extension towards the TSBD, after all? Maybe her new husband made her lose some weight!

[Thomas Graves]

And, has it ever occurred to you that, while Baker was running up to the steps, Shelley had not left the steps yet, and Gloria Calvery had not made it all the way to the concrete island yet?

Dear Robert,

OMG! You've found Shelley on the steps in Couch / Darnell??? That could be a real "game changer," Robert !!! I thought that was Joe Molina.

Now, when you say "Gloria Calvery had not made it all the way to the concrete island yet," which "Gloria Calvery" are you referring to? Running Woman, I suppose. But please do clarify, Robert. (BTW, I think Running Woman isn't all that far from "the corner of the park," as Shelley puts it.

Totally Separate Question: Do you believe Couch / Darnell started filming about 20 seconds after the final shot, or a minute or so later?

Thanks,

--Tommy

PS -- Regarding your belief that in Couch / Darnell, Lovelady can be seen rising up from a sitting position on the steps, I just remembered that in Wiegman and Altgens 6 we can see him standing on the steps, watching the motorcade! Can you think of any reason he (or anyone else) would have knelt down or sat down on the steps after hearing what sounded (to many) like shots being fired as the President of the United States was passing by? Don't you think he would have been interested in seeing what was going on? I find it implausible that he would have knelt / sat down at that point, so that's why I'm leaning towards interpreting your "rising Lovelady on the steps" as the back side and scarfed head (light colored scarf) of an older woman slowly climbing the steps and using the left handrail as she does so.

Comments?

Anyone?

Edited September 6, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

And, has it ever occurred to you that, while Baker was running up to the steps, Shelley had not left the steps yet, and Gloria Calvery had not made it all the way to the concrete island yet?

Dear Robert,

OMG! You've found William Shelley on the steps in Couch / Darnell??? That could be a real "game changer," Robert !!! I thought that was Joe Molina.

Now, when you say "Gloria Calvery had not made it all the way to the concrete island yet," which "Gloria Calvery" are you referring to? Running Woman, I suppose. But please do clarify, Robert. (BTW, I think Running Woman isn't all that far from "the corner of the park," as Shelley put it.

Totally Separate Question: Do you believe Couch / Darnell started filming about 20 seconds after the final shot, or a minute or so later?

Thanks,

--Tommy

PS -- Regarding your belief that in Couch / Darnell, Lovelady can be seen rising up from a sitting position on the steps, I just remembered that in Wiegman and Altgens 6 we can see Lovelady standing on the steps, watching the motorcade! Can you think of any reason he (or anyone) would have knelt or sat down on the steps after hearing what sounded (to many) like shots being fired as the President of the United States was passing by? Don't you think he would have been interested in seeing what was going on? I find it implausible that he would have sat down to eat his lunch at that point, so that's why I'm leaning towards interpreting your "rising Lovelady on the steps" as the back side and scarfed head (light colored scarf) of an older woman slowly climbing the steps and using the left handrail as she does so.

Comments?

Anyone?

bumped for comments

Edited September 6, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

Robert,

I'm looking for Shelly and I only see one guy on the steps who is wearing a coat and tie. I'm talking about the guy behind Frazier.

But he seems to be wearing a hat, too, and looks kinda broad-shouldered. Was Bill Shelly known to wear a hat?

Do you think Shelley was already over on the "corner of the park" when this footage was taken, conferring with Gloria Calvery?

Or already inside, calling his wife?

--Tommy

Regarding your belief that Lovelady , in the gif, can be seen rising up from a sitting position on the steps, I just remembered that in Wiegman and Altgens 6 we can see Lovelady standing on the steps just to the left of the center hand railing, watching the motorcade! Can you think of any reason he (or anyone) would have knelt or sat down on the steps after hearing what sounded (to many) like shots being fired as the President of the United States was passing by? Don't you think he would have been interested in seeing what was going on? I find it implausible that he would have sat down to eat his lunch at that point, so that's why I'm leaning towards interpreting your "rising Lovelady on the steps" as the back side and scarfed head (light colored scarf) of an older woman slowly climbing the steps and using the left handrail as she does so.

Just to show you how fair I am, I will allow you the possibility that Lovelady didn't kneel down or sit down at all, but that he climbed one step backwards in the gif. But wouldn't that have been rather awkward and obvious? I don't know. I can only imagine what that would look like. And why would he have moved from the center hand railing to the left edge of the steps? To have a worse view of what was goin' on down on Elm?

Edited September 7, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Robert Prudhomme]

"Mr. BALL - After you heard these noises you said sounded like firecrackers this girl came up and said the President was shot?

Mr. SHELLEY - Yeah.
Mr. BALL - You were still standing there?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - There was still some time lapse from the time you heard the noise like a firecracker and she came up?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Then you went out across Elm?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, to the divider.
Mr. BALL - Between the two Elm Streets?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - The one street dead ends and the other street that goes on down under the viaduct?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Did you run out to the point or walk out?
MMr. SHELLEY - I believe we trotted out there.
Mr. BALL - Did you stay very long?
Mr. SHELLEY - Oh, it wasn't very long.
Mr. BALL - How long?
Mr. SHELLEY - Maybe a minute or two.
Mr. BALL - And that's the place you saw Truly and Baker, you say, going into the building?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, uh-huh,"

Take note that Shelley testified that he and Lovelady stayed at the concrete divider between the two Elm Streets "Maybe a minute or two." before heading down the Elm St. extension, and that this is the position from which they viewed Baker and Truly going into the building.

All of this occurred, of course, after waiting on the steps of the TSBD several minutes for Gloria Calvery to return from the pergola area.

[Thomas Graves]

"Mr. BALL - After you heard these noises you said sounded like firecrackers this girl came up and said the President was shot?

Mr. SHELLEY - Yeah.

Mr. BALL - You were still standing there?

Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, sir.

Mr. BALL - There was still some time lapse from the time you heard the noise like a firecracker and she came up?

Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.

Mr. BALL - Then you went out across Elm?

Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, to the divider.

Mr. BALL - Between the two Elm Streets?

Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.

Mr. BALL - The one street dead ends and the other street that goes on down under the viaduct?

Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.

Mr. BALL - Did you run out to the point or walk out?

MMr. SHELLEY - I believe we trotted out there.

Mr. BALL - Did you stay very long?

Mr. SHELLEY - Oh, it wasn't very long.

Mr. BALL - How long?

Mr. SHELLEY - Maybe a minute or two.

Mr. BALL - And that's the place you saw Truly and Baker, you say, going into the building?

Mr. SHELLEY - Yes, uh-huh,"

Take note that Shelley testified that he and Lovelady stayed at the concrete divider between the two Elm Streets "Maybe a minute or two." before heading down the Elm St. extension, and that this is the position from which they viewed Baker and Truly going into the building.

All of this occurred, of course, after waiting on the steps of the TSBD several minutes for Gloria Calvery to return from the pergola area.

It's just that neither Shelley nor Lovelady are visible on the steps after the shots, but can be seen walking down, and then apparently across, Elm Street Extension as Running Woman runs past them.

--Tommy

Edited September 7, 2015 by Thomas Graves