David Atlee Phillips: The Mastermind?

[John Dolva]

Please Note:

This claim re 'oldest inteligance agency' has been made before.

The oldest intelligence gathering department of the US dates to 4 years prior to the declaration of independence : The Postal Inspection Service. This body and its agents have been gathering and disseminating intelligence since before the civil war. ONI was formed in 1882.

Hi John,

I stand corrected. Postal Inspector Holmes delayed Oswald's transfer until Ruby got into position, and the USPS is most certainly a federal intelligence agency.

Attached is an article I wrote about ONI and the JFK assassination.

Also enjoyed Western Australia when I was there in 87-88' - and I read your report on Freemantle, a true seaman's port.

BK

Hi William, surprising to know how many people have been here.* That's great, before the highway was sealed less than a decade prior to your visit it was probably one of the the furthest away least accessible capital city in the world (even today, go to about southern cross I think, drive east and don't stop for a traffic light for about 2750 k's.

Another 'minor' correction, the postal inspection service in 1963 was a part of the uspO, the uspS came into existence I think late 80's. Prior to this the head of the Inspection sercvice reported to the head of the Post Office, who was part of the presidents cabinet. Daily briefings and so forth. I'll need correcting on the finer points on this but I understand that when the PO was turned in to the PS this presidential nominated position became something like a modern CEO.

The nomination of head (until the change from USPO to the USPS had an element of cronyism, it was a controllabe position, Edward Day appointed by Kennedy resigned/was sacked under hazy conditions, however he and his successor allowed the CIA to utilise the PI's in mail opening to gather intelligence.

A perhaps undisclosed but clearly inferred 'job desription' was 'intelligence officer'. The mail opening was (is) illegal, so 'covert intelligence' is appropriate description. There's lot's more to it and the PO role in the events of November.

*apart from the fact that it was in the days of shipped migrations first port of call to OZ for millions of migrants/(convicts)

Edited November 8, 2005 by John Dolva

[Pamela Brown]

I suppose if we carried out a poll on who organized the assassination of JFK, the name of David Atlee Phillips would appear fairly high up on the list (probably in second place behind Davis Morales). I thought it might be worth looking at the evidence that Phillips was behind the assassination.

With all due respect, John, I don't consider DAP to have been high enough in position to have orchestrated the assassination. It is my thinking that distinction goes to James Jesus Angleton, head of CI for CIA. JJA was well-positioned to have made certain LHO was framed for the assassination, while, at the same time, using the threat of Soviet involvement (false) to keep the WC in line. JJA was the ultimate spymaster imo.

[Robin Finn]

From Anne Goodpasture's ARRB deposition:

Q. In the book The Nightwatch,he potrays himself as being someone who did not like Richard Nixon and who voted for President Kennedy?

A.Well,Dave Phillips----4 and half lines redacted-------

but there again,I hate for things like this to be published because there are 2,000—over 2,000 books already been written.The thing that they are looking for is something of this type that they can put in the other book to come that will be just short of slander,and I feel that I really shouldn’t comment on personalities for that reason.I don’t want my former co-workers or in Phillips’ case,his family, to think that I’m trying to project him as a personality that was a show-off or something other than the very sincere wonderful man that they feel that he is…

Anyone care to speculate what the redacted lines refer to?

[John Simkin]

A former CIA operative sent me an article recently. The article had been written by David Atlee Phillips and had appeared in the Columbia Journalism Review (January, 1987). The CIA operative was a friend of Phillips and thought he had been badly treated by people like myself on my web page on him and on the Forum. He thought that the article showed he was innocent of several charges made against him.

In the article Phillips claimed that he had been libelled by several journalists and authors. His complaints fell into two categories:

(1) The claim made by William F. Pepper, Donald Freed and Fred Landis that he had been involved in the cover-up of the murder of former Chilean foreign minister Orlando Letelier and Ronni Moffitt in Washington in 1976.

(2) The claim made by Gaeton Fonzi, Anthony Summers and Jack Limpert (a friend of Phillips), that he used the pseudonym “Maurice Bishop” and that he met Lee Harvey Oswald in Dallas shortly before the assassination of JFK.

In the article Phillips how he successfully sued the people involved in the Orlando Letelier case. However, his attempts to sue Jack Limpert (editor of the Washingtonian) ended in failure. He says that after taking legal advice he decided not to sue Fonzi and Summers.

In November, 1985, Phillips discovered that Henry Hurt was going to repeat Fonzi’s allegations in his book, Reasonable Doubt. Phillips wrote to Henry Holt, the president of Hurt’s publishers. Interestingly, he did not threaten legal action. Instead he asked if he could be allowed “to have 2,000 words somewhere in the book to refute the allegations”. Holt refused and the book was published with the claim that he used the pseudonym “Maurice Bishop” and that he met Lee Harvey Oswald in Dallas shortly before the assassination of JFK.

Although Phillips’ CIA friend thought this article cleared him of the allegations made against him. A close reading of the article suggests that he was probably innocent of the Letelier cover-up but guilty of the claims made by Fonzi.

This also raises the issue of the Letelier story. Was this another example of what Victor Marchetti has described as a “limited hangout”. To quote Marchetti:

A "limited hangout" is spy jargon for a favorite and frequently used gimmick of the clandestine professionals. When their veil of secrecy is shredded and they can no longer rely on a phony cover story to misinform the public, they resort to admitting - sometimes even volunteering some of the truth while still managing to withhold the key and damaging facts in the case. The public, however, is usually so intrigued by the new information that it never thinks to pursue the matter further.

[John Simkin]

When David Phillips testified before the HSCA in 1976 claimed that the CIA had taped Oswald´s conversations in the Soviet embassy but these were destroyed on 9th October, 1963. However, a FBI report on Oswald dated 23 November, 1963, states that the tape was listened to by agents and it was declared that "These special agents are of the opinion that the above-reference to individual is not Lee Harvey Oswald". Phillips clearly lied to the HSCA. Why was he not charged with perjury?

[William Kelly]

When David Phillips testified before the HSCA in 1976 claimed that the CIA had taped Oswald´s conversations in the Soviet embassy but these were destroyed on 9th October, 1963. However, a FBI report on Oswald dated 23 November, 1963, states that the tape was listened to by agents and it was declared that "These special agents are of the opinion that the above-reference to individual is not Lee Harvey Oswald". Phillips clearly lied to the HSCA. Why was he not charged with perjury?

John,

I think Ed Lopez or Gaeton Fonzi could answer your question.

The HSCA requested the Justice Deptartment to follow up, but we're still waitin.

BK

[Robert Howard]

Phillips clearly lied to the HSCA. Why was he not charged with perjury?

I think the record shows that HSCA Staffers pleaded with G. Robert Blakey to do so, and he would not.

By the way, I cite the work not as a reference work but as to the names named. Operation Pegasus, thrown in two more names, McGeorge and William, who are said to be Yale Bonesmen, to wit. McGeorge was privy to a certain post assassination meeting, which records of were conveniently destroyed before they could make it to the Archives. You know I do believe you can actually find White House memo's to JFK "suggesting accomodation" with man from Isle of Cuber.

What was it Jack Ruby said "A whole new form of government will take place."

Kind of like the one we have now, eh.

There is one cover-up McGeorge was party to 'on the record'

It now appears that the cover-up about Ferrie and Clay Shaw goes all the way up to Allen Dulles’ old friend and protègè McGeorge Bundy. In a recently declassified FBI memorandum of 5/10/67, the following paragraph is included:

Branigan advised all information concerning investigation by SA Regis Kennedy had been forwarded to the Department and to the Warren Commission, that certain of this information was sealed and this decision had been made by GEORGE MCBUNDY, [sic] Presidential Advisor, and members of the Warren Commission, and principally pertained to information showing certain people were homosexuals, etc., was not germane to the investigation, and MCBUNDY [sic] and the Commission decided this should be sealed..

.....Bundy and Dulles had worked together since the Dewey campaign of 1948, and Bundy was the point man in the White House delivering propaganda briefings on the Warren Report two months before it was issued, and it appears both Shaw and Ferrie worked for the CIA when Dulles was chief......

Oswald’s CIA files were also being shepherded by C/I Chief James Angleton through the Agency; the FPCC was the subject of a CIA operation launched by David Phillips and James McCord; that Phillips then followed Oswald to Mexico City in October to prepare the false and incriminating transcripts in the Cuban embassy.

Edited January 4, 2006 by Robert Howard

[Wim Dankbaar]

The Night Watch by David Atlee Phillips.

Read about "Peter" on this page:

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/images/dap1.JPG

Peter is none other than Ted Shackley (later JM/Wave chief and Bush's deputy director)

http://jfkmurdersolved.com/images/dap2.JPG

I know who Peter and El Indio are. El Indio is David Morales. But who is "Hector" ?

Cesar Diosdado maybe? It would be typical for Phillips to give a hint and choose another first name that can be connected with the classic Roman and Greek period.

Note that El Indio is Hector's "sidekick". This strengthens my belief that Morales and Diosdado were the mysterious visitors of Silvia Odio. She decribed them as looking "Mexican". Also, Gaeton Fonzi told me that he never showed pictures of Morales and Diosdado to Silvia.

In this whole biography, nor in the index of the night watch, is no mention of Shackley, Morales, Veciana and Diosdado. With Phillips' background this is simply impossible. Very fascinating .

Wim

Marrs - So, did Phillips recruit you or did Shackley recruit you?

Files – Shackley recommended me. Phillips is the one that recruited me. He had come to see me and told me he had a job waiting for me. I walked out of the Veteran’s hospital.

[J. Raymond Carroll]

The Night Watch by David Atlee Phillips.Read about "Peter" on this page:

In this whole biography, nor in the index of the night watch, is no mention of Shackley, Morales, Veciana and Diosdado. With Phillips' background this is simply impossible. Very fascinating .

Files – Shackley recommended me. Phillips is the one that recruited me. He had come to see me and told me he had a job waiting for me. I walked out of the Veteran’s hospital.

If this is FIles's story, I would not believe a single word.

If I remember rightly, it was Veciana who first raised suspicion that David Phillips was involved with Lee Oswald. What Veciana offered with one hand, he took away with the other, making it clear that the the "man" he "saw" with Oswald was NOT Phillips.

Given so much misinformation pointig towards Phillips, I suggest he can be safely eliminated as a suspect.

[Pat Speer]

The Night Watch by David Atlee Phillips.Read about "Peter" on this page:

In this whole biography, nor in the index of the night watch, is no mention of Shackley, Morales, Veciana and Diosdado. With Phillips' background this is simply impossible. Very fascinating .

Files – Shackley recommended me. Phillips is the one that recruited me. He had come to see me and told me he had a job waiting for me. I walked out of the Veteran’s hospital.

If this is FIles's story, I would not believe a single word.

If I remember rightly, it was Veciana who first raised suspicion that David Phillips was involved with Lee Oswald. What Veciana offered with one hand, he took away with the other, making it clear that the the "man" he "saw" with Oswald was NOT Phillips.

Given so much misinformation pointig towards Phillips, I suggest he can be safely eliminated as a suspect.

After reading "The Last Investigation" I was convinced that Phillips was involved on some level. The HSCA believed that Phillips lied to them about his connections to Veciana. Why would he lie, if he was totally innocent, knowing that it would make others believe that Veciana's story about "Bishop" and Oswald was true? Why would Veciana later as much as admit to Fonzi that he'd lied when he said "Bishop" was NOT Phillips? Is Veciana a total xxxx? Is Fonzi a xxxx, or a dupe? While certainly possible, I really doubt the whole thing was just a misunderstanding...

[Wim Dankbaar]

http://www.cuban-exile.com/doc_026-050/doc0027-3.html

Escalante: Phillips left Cuba in the middle or the end of 1960, we're not quite sure, but they came to

know that he was in Miami shortly after. And we came to know about his relationship with Radio...

Swan. He was managing a program in the information service of this radio station. Afterward, we

came to know about Phillips when he was in Mexico. The information we had of him in Mexico was

scant, it was pretty poor, we didn't know much about him. We knew he was there, we didn't know what

he was doing. After that we knew that he was in Santo Domingo, the Dominican Republic. Again we

didn't know what he was doing there. And the first information from agents we have about Phillips is

from the year 1966, seven. In London he conversed with one of our agents recruited by the CIA. His

name Nicolas Sirgado. S-I-R-G ... Sirgado.

?____________: He was a Cuban agent or CIA?

Nunez: He was a Cuban agent recruited by the CIA.

?____________: A Cuban agent recruited by the CIA.

Abramson: In London.

?____________: A double agent.

Nunez: A double agent, that's it.

Escalante: Our agents spoke with him in the King George hotel in London. From this point onward we

had periodic contact with him every few months until 1972. So you know, the CIA was trying to send

him in one direction, we were trying to send him in the other direction. What was the main reason,

fundamental reason, why we had this conversation with Phillips?

Nunez: The main reason we know that Phillips was having this conversation, and I will let you know

later on why we knew of this.

Escalante: He was mainly interested in Fidel, his trips. The structure of the Cuban government.

Information about the people that were around Fidel Castro. He was introduce himself with a sir

name, Harold Benson. However, he used to smoke a pipe that had an initial that could be an H or M.

?___________: M or H?

Escalante: Ah, an M and a B.

?____________: H and B.

Escalante: Or could be an H and a B, H and B, or M and B, could be either one. That is something our

agent informed us of. We did a spoken picture of this Harold Benson as we do always. But we didn't

know really know who he was. In 1972, this CIA official had an interview with our agent. Our agent at

that time had a different case official. But this man came as a.... as a leader, as a boss or something.

Had an interview with our agent. This interview was... took place in Mexico they were just having a

few drinks. In between, Kennedy [Kennedy's name] came into the conversation they were talking

about... into the conversation, not Kennedy came to, into... So when the subject comes up this

character explains to our agent that after Kennedy's death, he visited his grave and peed on it and

said he [JFK] was a communist and such and such. We still didn't know who Harold Benson was but

when Claudia Furiati did her research, among the people we interviewed was this agent. We showed

him a group of photographs. Plus we already knew about David Phillips. I'm speaking of 92 and 93.

And the photograph that we showed him was a photograph of David Phillips. And so he pointed out as

Harold Benson. This is all the information I can give you. There are some other informations.

?____________: Do you recall the other photographs you showed him at that time?

Escalante: I remember that it was Tracy Barnes. For example all the we took all the photographs that

were published in the Invisible Government. [...by] David Wise.

Escalante: He took the photographs from the book and put them to the side. We included Cuban

people that were there, but with photographs from those years. This is something you often do when

you are doing something like this. I think there were twelve photographs that were shown to them.

Winslow: Was one of them Paul Bethel, by any chance?

Escalante: No, no, no, Paul Bethel no...

Winslow: He didn't show him that.

Escalante: Tracy Barnes, Robert Hammery [were the only two I remember]. They were mainly in the

book -- Wise book.

I was telling you we have so much information. In 1979 Bercia told to one of our own informants in

Miami that he had been pushed by a select committee that he had given a fake name to the CIA

officer that was in charge of him. He had given the name of Maurice Bishop. But, truly the official that

had to deal with him was David Phillips.

A third information comes from Mr. Manuel Rodriguez. Manuel Rodriguez truly, we didn't know who

he was. We heard about Manuel Rodriguez when we started to do research on Oscar Berot on

account of what information was received from the __________ hotel. Oscar Berot is the second

surname of Manuel Rodriguez

and in our organization the index is always made by the first surname not by the second one. But when

we found out that Oscar Berot was Manuel Rodriguez, then we found another interesting information.

Manuel Rodriguez, Oscar Berot told one of our agents, first of all that he was in Dallas because he

was the officer 66 [Alpha-66] delegate in Dallas. And he was the delegate for office 66 in Dallas and if

anyone came to know that he and Bercian took part in the plot to kill Kennedy. They were going to be

killed. He was already living in Puerto Rico or a little after that he went to live in Puerto Rico. And

another information comes from a very close person of Bercian, I think... some of you have already

interviewed. This person told us that Phillips threatened Bercian in order for him to not reveal his true

identity. I'm not going to reveal his name, but I will only tell you that some of you have had interviews

with this person (don't talk about it) ?__________________ I cannot reveal this on account of an

ethics principle for the same cause, because some of you will not make such revelations.

These are the moments in which we have found in relation to Maurice Bishop and David Phillips of

course there was a very wide investigation made by ________________? where he also had had lots

of trucks and I think there's no doubt about both persons are the same. I'm going to tell you an

anecdote. This thing about using fake names is very complicated. The CIA in Havana has a book of

Cuban officials. And in that book I appear in two different books. I have my own name and I appear

with my fake name and I think that they already know that I am the same person, but when we

discovered that there were two different people. Those things happen.

[J. Raymond Carroll]

I suppose if we carried out a poll on who organized the assassination of JFK, the name of David Atlee Phillips would appear fairly high up on the list.

I believe there is a poll on this forum as to who killed JFK, but I just can't find the link. Did Phillips name actually appear high on that list?

Phillips, . As far as he were concerned, JFK was a traitor and needed to be removed from power. (People say things like that about other presidents: FDR, GHWB, even the great Bill Clinton. Sometimes after a coctail or two.

Did Phillips ever write or record (or is the even a credible witness who claims to have heard him say, that JFK was a traitor? Did Phillips ever try launch a program to impeach JFK for Treason? He demonstrated in his work among rtired CIA officers, he had a natural bent for political campaigning.

if drastic action was needed, who better to approach than that group that had been responsible for getting rid of dangerous political leaders in the past.

Any number of groups might have come to mind, or -morelikely a special team of selected individuals

. Unless we know for sure (not from a novel) That PHILLIPS TOOK A KNOWING PART IN POLITICAL ASSASSINATION's, IT DOES NOT FOLLOW THAT jfk'S KILLERS WOULD GRAVITATE TO phillips, OR vice versa

The highest-ranking member of this right-wing group within the CIA in 1963 was David Atlee Phillips.

The highest-ranking member of the JFK research community was the late Mary Ferrell. Mary was widely reputed to be right-winger. What does that tell us?

I am not an expert on David Phillips. Could someone point a link to where he was actually PROVEN to be "responsible for getting rid (murdering?) of dangerous political leaders"

It was later claimed that Phillips told Antonio Veciana his goal was to provoke US intervention in Cuba by "putting Kennedy's back to the wall."

(THis one is a really old chestnut, and seems to have a thousand fathers)

Phillips therefore had the motivation (QUESTIONABLE) and the opportunity (QUESTIONABLE) (equally to organize the assassination EQUALLY QUESTIONABLY

Now John asks the $64,000 QUESTION

However, is there any evidence that he was the man responsible?

Evidence is always a big help when accusing someone of murder.

In 1976 Antonio Veciana was interviewed by Gaeton Fonzi of the House Select Committee on Assassinations. The founder of the anti-Castro organization, Alpha 66, he told the committee about his relationship with his CIA contact, Maurice Bishop. Veciana claimed that in August, 1963, he saw Bishop and Lee Harvey Oswald together in Dallas.

This story may remind you of Vernon Bundy's testimony in the Clay Shaw trial,

except Good ole Vernon claimed he saw money changing hands, and claimed he heard a fragment of a conversation. Veciana claims he saw two men talking on a (street corner?), an everday event the normal person banishes from mind, because such mundane memories occupy valuable cognitive space that is already at a premium. If Veciana's story is true, however, he did recognize one of the men, "Maurice Bishop."

Phillips denied knowing Veciana. After the meeting Veciana told Schweiker that Phillips was not the man known to him as Bishop. So now both men tell the HSCA that they do NOT know each other.

SOUNDS LIKE GAME SET AND MATCH To DAVID PHILLIPS

I am willing to be convinced that Phillips was the mastermind behind the assassination.

I hope John will not be convinced without at least a little bit of evidence.

PS John Simkin says that Phillips told Jack Limpert that he used the pseudonym “Maurice Bishop” and that he met Lee Harvey Oswald in Dallas shortly before the assassination."

If this story is true it would actually be the first link beteen Phillips and Lee Oswald ,six degrees of separation so it might not prove anything even if if true, but the question is: Is it true? Does anyone have a deposition, or an affidavit from Jack Limpert?

Edited September 12, 2006 by J. Raymond Carroll

[Robert Charles-Dunne]

I suppose if we carried out a poll on who organized the assassination of JFK, the name of David Atlee Phillips would appear fairly high up on the list.

I believe there is a poll on this forum as to who killed JFK, but I just can't find the link. Did Phillips name actually appear high on that list?

Perhaps taking a vote among Forum members isn't the most definitive way of demonstrating someone's culpability in the assassination. Amusing, perhaps; but certainly not probative in any way.

Phillips, . As far as he were concerned, JFK was a traitor and needed to be removed from power. (People say things like that about other presidents: FDR, GHWB, even the great Bill Clinton. Sometimes after a coctail or two.

Did Phillips ever write or record (or is the even a credible witness who claims to have heard him say, that JFK was a traitor? Did Phillips ever try launch a program to impeach JFK for Treason? He demonstrated in his work among rtired CIA officers, he had a natural bent for political campaigning.

Given that Kennedy was Phillips' Commander In Chief, it was unlikely that he'd be stupid enough to say such a thing publicly while Kennedy was alive. Given that Phillips became a suspect in the assassination a decade after it happened, it was unlikely that he'd be stupid enough to say such a thing publicly after Kennedy was dead. But if a confession is required to prove the point, perhaps we should just accept James Files' word and all go home. You could, of course, pay closer attention to what Antonio Veciana told Gaeton Fonzi, but that seems rather unlikely somehow.

if drastic action was needed, who better to approach than that group that had been responsible for getting rid of dangerous political leaders in the past.

Any number of groups might have come to mind, or -morelikely a special team of selected individuals

. Unless we know for sure (not from a novel) That PHILLIPS TOOK A KNOWING PART IN POLITICAL ASSASSINATION's, IT DOES NOT FOLLOW THAT jfk'S KILLERS WOULD GRAVITATE TO phillips, OR vice versa

Ever hear of Jacobo Arbenz, Rafael Trujillo, Salvador Allende or Fidel Castro? Ever hear about the Agency's plans for them? Ever notice that Phillips figured size large in all those plans? Are you seriously suggesting that these plans for termination with extreme prejudice transpired but somehow, inexplicably, Phillips was unaware of them?

The highest-ranking member of this right-wing group within the CIA in 1963 was David Atlee Phillips.

The highest-ranking member of the JFK research community was the late Mary Ferrell. Mary was widely reputed to be right-winger. What does that tell us?

That you seem more interested in sidetracking the conversation than in following it? Just a guess, Ray.

I am not an expert on David Phillips. Could someone point a link to where he was actually PROVEN to be "responsible for getting rid (murdering?) of dangerous political leaders"

See above. If you need it codified by a governmental source you deem reputable, you may have to wait a while. Seems the government is rather shy about confessing to the attempted murders of foreign leaders, and reluctant to take credit when they are successful. Go figure.

It was later claimed that Phillips told Antonio Veciana his goal was to provoke US intervention in Cuba by "putting Kennedy's back to the wall."

(THis one is a really old chestnut, and seems to have a thousand fathers)

Actually, it has one father. His name is Antonio Veciana Blanch. If you'd care to name the other 999 "fathers," I'd welcome the contribution.

Phillips therefore had the motivation (QUESTIONABLE) and the opportunity (QUESTIONABLE) (equally to organize the assassination EQUALLY QUESTIONABLY

Now John asks the $64,000 QUESTION

However, is there any evidence that he was the man responsible?

Evidence is always a big help when accusing someone of murder.

And yet so hard to come by, as are the confessions you seem to require prior to accepting the possibility. It seems to be rather a lot of bother; let's just accept James Files' confession, call it a day, and repair to the pub, shall we? First round's on me.

In 1976 Antonio Veciana was interviewed by Gaeton Fonzi of the House Select Committee on Assassinations. The founder of the anti-Castro organization, Alpha 66, he told the committee about his relationship with his CIA contact, Maurice Bishop. Veciana claimed that in August, 1963, he saw Bishop and Lee Harvey Oswald together in Dallas.

This story may remind you of Vernon Bundy's testimony in the Clay Shaw trial,

except Good ole Vernon claimed he saw money changing hands, and claimed he heard a fragment of a conversation. Veciana claims he saw two men talking on a (street corner?), an everday event the normal person banishes from mind, because such mundane memories occupy valuable cognitive space that is already at a premium. If Veciana's story is true, however, he did recognize one of the men, "Maurice Bishop."

There's a bit more to the story, of course, Ray, but you seem rather bored with the tale. "Maurice Bishop" wasn't just a "man" whom Venciana recognized, was he? He was a man who had given Veciana numerous orders, over the space of a decade, all of which furthered CIA's agenda against Castro, which Veciana shared. "Bishop" was a man who had ordered Veciana to use a large sum of money to bribe his cousin, DGI agent Guillermo Ruiz, to offer the perjured testimony that he and his wife had met with Oswald in Mexico City. One wonders, but not for long, for what purpose "Bishop" gave this order. Ultimately, Veciana was himself paid a considerable sum of money by "Bishop" for the services rendered in the interim, leading one to suspect that Veciana did a tad more than merely "recognize" him. Managed to leave a few details out of your specious analogy, didn't we, Ray?

Phillips denied knowing Veciana. After the meeting Veciana told Schweiker that Phillips was not the man known to him as Bishop. So now both men tell the HSCA that they do know each other.

SOUNDS LIKE GAME SET AND MATCH To DAVID PHILLIPS

And that was before Veciana was shot in the head soon after testifying. Certainly, self-preservation wasn't among the reasons either man had for their denials, was it?

I am willing to be convinced that Phillips was the mastermind behind the assassination.

I hope John will not be convinced without at least a little bit of evidence.

PS John Simkin says that Phillips told Jack Limpert that he used the pseudonym “Maurice Bishop” and that he met Lee Harvey Oswald in Dallas shortly before the assassination."

If this story is true it would actually be the first link beteen Phillips and Lee Oswald ,six degrees of separation so it might not prove anything even if if true, but the question is: Is it true? Does anyone have a deposition, or an affidavit from Jack Limpert?

Since it's taken you this long to respond to a fifteen month old post, Ray, can we get back to you at some future date?

[Michael Hogan]

The fight should be stopped now and declared a technical knockout in favor of Robert Charles-Dunne. Carroll's manager should throw the towel into the ring. This is a monumental mismatch, almost not fair.

Using just his brain and his wit, and withering counters of logic, RCD is giving JRC an old-fashioned shellacking.

[John Simkin]

The fight should be stopped now and declared a technical knockout in favor of Robert Charles-Dunne. Carroll's manager should throw the towel into the ring. This is a monumental mismatch, almost not fair.

Using just his brain and his wit, and withering counters of logic, RCD is giving JRC an old-fashioned shellacking.

I agree. I will not bother to Ray's post directed at me. However, if you want an account of David Atlee Phillips work in removing foreign leaders see his biography here:

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKphillips.htm

Better still, read his autobiography The Night Watch: 25 Years of Peculiar Service where he takes credit for the role he played in some of these events.