Ron Ecker Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 IMO the Oxnard call, made just minutes before the assassination, is prima facie evidence of a conspiracy. Someone in the Oxnard area had foreknowledge of the assassination. Coincidence can be ruled out. Not only did the caller say that JFK would die at 10:10 am (12:10 Dallas time), but later in the call she amended the time, saying JFK would die at 10:30 (the exact time of the assassination). It’s as if someone in the Oxnard area was actually tracking the progress of the motorcade, with the caller taking into account the delay in arriving at a known kill zone. The details of the call as recounted by the FBI are here: http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11503#relPageId=107&tab=page Greg Parker’s research on the call is here: http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t28-the-oxnard-riddle-explained Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) Thank you for recognizing the importance of this call, Ron. Edited May 21, 2015 by Greg Parker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ecker Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 I think it's one of the most fascinating stories from that terrible day, and perhaps the most ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I think it's one of the most fascinating stories from that terrible day, and perhaps the most ignored. Couldn't agree more. And you're going to be amazed at just how accurate she was. I have uncovered trace elements of an aborted attempt right on 12:10 pm. Additionally, although I said in that article we will probably never know who she was - I have since at least, come up with a very good "suspect" - a Dallasite who spent a lot of time in California, and fits the bill in all other respects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ecker Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 And you're going to be amazed at just how accurate she was. I have uncovered trace elements of an aborted attempt right on 12:10 pm. Additionally, although I said in that article we will probably never know who she was - I have since at least, come up with a very good "suspect" - a Dallasite who spent a lot of time in California, and fits the bill in all other respects. When will you give us details? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 And you're going to be amazed at just how accurate she was. I have uncovered trace elements of an aborted attempt right on 12:10 pm. Additionally, although I said in that article we will probably never know who she was - I have since at least, come up with a very good "suspect" - a Dallasite who spent a lot of time in California, and fits the bill in all other respects. When will you give us details? Ron, I wouldn't want to disappoint David. Volume 3. But there is plenty coming up in volume 2 including the real roots of the "defector" program and who recruited LHO for it. It will be out before the end of the year in ebook and also as paperback combined with volume 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 The forum posts are a copy-paste of a piece of an older essay GP wrote... You spend years attacking Osteopathy trying to support your tonsil ideas and the first essay of yours I read is ultimately based on the overheard Oxnard phone call and your speculations and conclusions that it had to do with Radionics and that there was any connection to what actually happened.. Funny thing is there was another call to a Mrs Tippit that went along these same lines with revelations about Oswald’s father and brother… same MO, crazy person on the phone… but no Radionics with the Tippit call… was that the problem? There were in fact many calls reported which offer glimpses of foreknowledge... but this one stands out for you. You wrote: "RadionicsRadionics originated in San Francisco through the experiments conducted by Albert Abrams during the early 20th century. Originally meant as a means of remote diagnosis, it can allegedly be used to remotely affect any "target" in any way desirable.A radionics device has three (external) working parts: a power source (your mind); an intention (what you want to affect) and; a "target" (place/person/object the energy is directed toward)." Basically a crazy sounding women is overheard making strange disjointed comments somehow related to the president's assassination and it is determined she is talking to herself. This becomes the basis for a theory of yours about foreknowledge of 2 Dallas plots & at least 4 shooters, and then you conclude she has prior knowledge - A POTUS is going to the south where he is hated... a woman talking to herself on a phone thinks he will be killed and is overheard... now THAT is some seriously far stretch, or not Greg. "JFK will be killed in Dallas" was talked about by many... many more even stated that they WISHED he was killed when he came to Dallas... no matter, to you Radionics is something worth considering... yet Osteopathy is demon magic… right. I (Greg) believe she was using radionics or a similar means of remotely affecting the assassination. I have no opinion on whether it works. At this point, that is less important than the fact that the woman believed it worked, and that she had prior knowledge of what was about to happen in Dallas. The other unanswered question: was she trying to ensure the success of the assassination, or trying to prevent it? I believe that the totality of her invocations suggests she was trying to ensure success. Radionics Greg? Using one's mind to affect a target at some other location - and you can spend all that time on Ostepathy as an unrecognized discipline. What did you conclude in this essay? "Conclusion:The Oxnard call hints at a plot where two snipers were in place (The original article tries to offer more info yet nothing related to a 2-sniper plot - ths only place in that article the word "sniper" appears is in the bold/italic sentences of the conclusion presented here.) (wow, no stretch there... care to tie that back into her phone call at some point... it's not in the article... and the motorcade was 20 minutes late leaving Love Field, not 5. all these 1st and 2nd plots yet you offer nothing to support that conclusion but more speculation...) The first sniper was in position for the kill shot at the location the motorcade was due to pass by at 12:10. A back-up sniper would also be in place at the Trade Mart. The fact that the motorcade was running 5 minutes late may have caused the first sniper to abort. The second sniper however, would still not be needed, as the second plot got the hit in Dealey Plaza. So you have two plots - one with 2 snipers - at 12:10 he would be scheduled to pass the TSBD but was 20 minutes late leaving Love field - sniper #1 gone. Yet then we have PLOT #2 which actually got him with the frontal shots in DP... what a surprise TWO plots, TWO snipers... gee, where have we heard "TWO" of things before ??? And all this from that one essay and a crazy woman in Oxnard... well done!This first plot was planned and (almost) executed by Californian Right Wing extremists with ties to intelligence, cults and probably also to military brass and/or politicians." We can even identify the would-be Trade Mart patsy: Russell McLarry. He was arrested after being overheard stating he would be waiting with a gun to shoot the President from a building as he neared the Trade Mart. So what did this crazy woman say - as recorded in evidence - which helped give you the "hint" there were two snipers in place? "The caller, continuing in the same rapid whisper, next said, "the Justice, the Supreme Court, there's going to be fire in all the windows, the Government is going up in flames." " The caller followed those statements up with yet another recital of the courts and the words, "The Government takes over everything lock, stock and barrel. " "The above facts brought to mind some of the practices of Wiccans, Rosicrucian and other fringe groups and cults, and so it was along such lines that further inquiry took me" and off you go into the world of witchcraft... but that's okay cause you're a serious researcher and since this is your work, it must be okay to use as a source for your theories. --------------------------------- Another part of this same essay.... You put John Pic at center stage for Ozzie's intelligence ties... he was in the PSU so he MUST be intelligence... with no sources offered to boot... doesn’t “I BELIEVE” suggest speculation on your part? OSWALD: DID HE HAVE INTELLIGENCE TIES?Yes – and much closer to home than the usual suspects. Much is often made of the influence Robert had on Lee – but I believe John Pic’s influence was far more significant. and you can still spend months attacking others when your own work is so supremely under/un-sourced, vague and speculative... Let's spend the next few months ripping your work apart - shall we? will it serve some purpose? guess we'll see... but first you'd have to actually identify your sources... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ecker Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 A POTUS is going to the south where he is hated... a woman talking to herself on a phone thinks he will be killed and is overheard... now THAT is some seriously far stretch, or not Greg. "JFK will be killed in Dallas" was talked about by many.. How many of those many gave the exact time he would be shot? Any of them besides this "crazy woman"? But you think this is a "seriously far stretch"? Okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon G. Tidd Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 A daffy individual can make predictions that turn out to be accurate. Anyone can. IMO, the question is not whether the caller made an accurate prediction. The question is whether the caller was daffy. If she was, her prediction needs to be discounted as mere coincidence. If she was not, she deserves close scrutiny. Based on what I read, I believe the caller was daffy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 The forum posts are a copy-paste of a piece of an older essay GP wrote... You spend years attacking Osteopathy trying to support your tonsil ideas and the first essay of yours I read is ultimately based on the overheard Oxnard phone call and your speculations and conclusions that it had to do with Radionics and that there was any connection to what actually happened.. Funny thing is there was another call to a Mrs Tippit that went along these same lines with revelations about Oswald’s father and brother… same MO, crazy person on the phone… but no Radionics with the Tippit call… was that the problem? There were in fact many calls reported which offer glimpses of foreknowledge... but this one stands out for you. You wrote: "Radionics Radionics originated in San Francisco through the experiments conducted by Albert Abrams during the early 20th century. Originally meant as a means of remote diagnosis, it can allegedly be used to remotely affect any "target" in any way desirable. A radionics device has three (external) working parts: a power source (your mind); an intention (what you want to affect) and; a "target" (place/person/object the energy is directed toward)." Basically a crazy sounding women is overheard making strange disjointed comments somehow related to the president's assassination and it is determined she is talking to herself. This becomes the basis for a theory of yours about foreknowledge of 2 Dallas plots & at least 4 shooters, and then you conclude she has prior knowledge - A POTUS is going to the south where he is hated... a woman talking to herself on a phone thinks he will be killed and is overheard... now THAT is some seriously far stretch, or not Greg. "JFK will be killed in Dallas" was talked about by many... many more even stated that they WISHED he was killed when he came to Dallas... no matter, to you Radionics is something worth considering... yet Osteopathy is demon magic… right. I (Greg) believe she was using radionics or a similar means of remotely affecting the assassination. I have no opinion on whether it works. At this point, that is less important than the fact that the woman believed it worked, and that she had prior knowledge of what was about to happen in Dallas. The other unanswered question: was she trying to ensure the success of the assassination, or trying to prevent it? I believe that the totality of her invocations suggests she was trying to ensure success. Radionics Greg? Using one's mind to affect a target at some other location - and you can spend all that time on Ostepathy as an unrecognized discipline. What did you conclude in this essay? "Conclusion: The Oxnard call hints at a plot where two snipers were in place (The original article tries to offer more info yet nothing related to a 2-sniper plot - ths only place in that article the word "sniper" appears is in the bold/italic sentences of the conclusion presented here.) (wow, no stretch there... care to tie that back into her phone call at some point... it's not in the article... and the motorcade was 20 minutes late leaving Love Field, not 5. all these 1st and 2nd plots yet you offer nothing to support that conclusion but more speculation...) The first sniper was in position for the kill shot at the location the motorcade was due to pass by at 12:10. A back-up sniper would also be in place at the Trade Mart. The fact that the motorcade was running 5 minutes late may have caused the first sniper to abort. The second sniper however, would still not be needed, as the second plot got the hit in Dealey Plaza. So you have two plots - one with 2 snipers - at 12:10 he would be scheduled to pass the TSBD but was 20 minutes late leaving Love field - sniper #1 gone. Yet then we have PLOT #2 which actually got him with the frontal shots in DP... what a surprise TWO plots, TWO snipers... gee, where have we heard "TWO" of things before ??? And all this from that one essay and a crazy woman in Oxnard... well done! This first plot was planned and (almost) executed by Californian Right Wing extremists with ties to intelligence, cults and probably also to military brass and/or politicians." We can even identify the would-be Trade Mart patsy: Russell McLarry. He was arrested after being overheard stating he would be waiting with a gun to shoot the President from a building as he neared the Trade Mart. So what did this crazy woman say - as recorded in evidence - which helped give you the "hint" there were two snipers in place? "The caller, continuing in the same rapid whisper, next said, "the Justice, the Supreme Court, there's going to be fire in all the windows, the Government is going up in flames." " The caller followed those statements up with yet another recital of the courts and the words, "The Government takes over everything lock, stock and barrel. " "The above facts brought to mind some of the practices of Wiccans, Rosicrucian and other fringe groups and cults, and so it was along such lines that further inquiry took me" and off you go into the world of witchcraft... but that's okay cause you're a serious researcher and since this is your work, it must be okay to use as a source for your theories. --------------------------------- Another part of this same essay.... You put John Pic at center stage for Ozzie's intelligence ties... he was in the PSU so he MUST be intelligence... with no sources offered to boot... doesn’t “I BELIEVE” suggest speculation on your part? OSWALD: DID HE HAVE INTELLIGENCE TIES? Yes – and much closer to home than the usual suspects. Much is often made of the influence Robert had on Lee – but I believe John Pic’s influence was far more significant. and you can still spend months attacking others when your own work is so supremely under/un-sourced, vague and speculative... Let's spend the next few months ripping your work apart - shall we? will it serve some purpose? guess we'll see... but first you'd have to actually identify your sources... David, this is nothing more than a 2 year old's tantrum. If my work can be torn apart, it SHOULD be torn apart. But let me give you some advice.You need to actually do it honestly by NOT garbling the facts and mixing those garbled facts with total misrepresentations. Go away, take a deep breath and if you still want to do this, please do - just make sure you've got your facts straight next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) A daffy individual can make predictions that turn out to be accurate. Anyone can. IMO, the question is not whether the caller made an accurate prediction. The question is whether the caller was daffy. If she was, her prediction needs to be discounted as mere coincidence. If she was not, she deserves close scrutiny. Based on what I read, I believe the caller was daffy. That's because you're reading what others say instead of what the employees actually told the FBI. The woman was in full control of her faculties. She stated that he would die at 12:10 - somehow she knew that didn't happen and immediately after that time expired, she amended it to 12:30. Either she was psychic, or she was in radio contact with someone in Dallas involved in the plot. I know which I believe. Edited May 21, 2015 by Greg Parker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 The forum posts are a copy-paste of a piece of an older essay GP wrote... You spend years attacking Osteopathy trying to support your tonsil ideas and the first essay of yours I read is ultimately based on the overheard Oxnard phone call and your speculations and conclusions that it had to do with Radionics and that there was any connection to what actually happened.. Funny thing is there was another call to a Mrs Tippit that went along these same lines with revelations about Oswald’s father and brother… same MO, crazy person on the phone… but no Radionics with the Tippit call… was that the problem? There were in fact many calls reported which offer glimpses of foreknowledge... but this one stands out for you. You wrote: "Radionics Radionics originated in San Francisco through the experiments conducted by Albert Abrams during the early 20th century. Originally meant as a means of remote diagnosis, it can allegedly be used to remotely affect any "target" in any way desirable. A radionics device has three (external) working parts: a power source (your mind); an intention (what you want to affect) and; a "target" (place/person/object the energy is directed toward)." Basically a crazy sounding women is overheard making strange disjointed comments somehow related to the president's assassination and it is determined she is talking to herself. This becomes the basis for a theory of yours about foreknowledge of 2 Dallas plots & at least 4 shooters, and then you conclude she has prior knowledge - A POTUS is going to the south where he is hated... a woman talking to herself on a phone thinks he will be killed and is overheard... now THAT is some seriously far stretch, or not Greg. "JFK will be killed in Dallas" was talked about by many... many more even stated that they WISHED he was killed when he came to Dallas... no matter, to you Radionics is something worth considering... yet Osteopathy is demon magic… right. I (Greg) believe she was using radionics or a similar means of remotely affecting the assassination. I have no opinion on whether it works. At this point, that is less important than the fact that the woman believed it worked, and that she had prior knowledge of what was about to happen in Dallas. The other unanswered question: was she trying to ensure the success of the assassination, or trying to prevent it? I believe that the totality of her invocations suggests she was trying to ensure success. Radionics Greg? Using one's mind to affect a target at some other location - and you can spend all that time on Ostepathy as an unrecognized discipline. What did you conclude in this essay? "Conclusion: The Oxnard call hints at a plot where two snipers were in place (The original article tries to offer more info yet nothing related to a 2-sniper plot - ths only place in that article the word "sniper" appears is in the bold/italic sentences of the conclusion presented here.) (wow, no stretch there... care to tie that back into her phone call at some point... it's not in the article... and the motorcade was 20 minutes late leaving Love Field, not 5. all these 1st and 2nd plots yet you offer nothing to support that conclusion but more speculation...) The first sniper was in position for the kill shot at the location the motorcade was due to pass by at 12:10. A back-up sniper would also be in place at the Trade Mart. The fact that the motorcade was running 5 minutes late may have caused the first sniper to abort. The second sniper however, would still not be needed, as the second plot got the hit in Dealey Plaza. So you have two plots - one with 2 snipers - at 12:10 he would be scheduled to pass the TSBD but was 20 minutes late leaving Love field - sniper #1 gone. Yet then we have PLOT #2 which actually got him with the frontal shots in DP... what a surprise TWO plots, TWO snipers... gee, where have we heard "TWO" of things before ??? And all this from that one essay and a crazy woman in Oxnard... well done! This first plot was planned and (almost) executed by Californian Right Wing extremists with ties to intelligence, cults and probably also to military brass and/or politicians." We can even identify the would-be Trade Mart patsy: Russell McLarry. He was arrested after being overheard stating he would be waiting with a gun to shoot the President from a building as he neared the Trade Mart. So what did this crazy woman say - as recorded in evidence - which helped give you the "hint" there were two snipers in place? "The caller, continuing in the same rapid whisper, next said, "the Justice, the Supreme Court, there's going to be fire in all the windows, the Government is going up in flames." " The caller followed those statements up with yet another recital of the courts and the words, "The Government takes over everything lock, stock and barrel. " "The above facts brought to mind some of the practices of Wiccans, Rosicrucian and other fringe groups and cults, and so it was along such lines that further inquiry took me" and off you go into the world of witchcraft... but that's okay cause you're a serious researcher and since this is your work, it must be okay to use as a source for your theories. --------------------------------- Another part of this same essay.... You put John Pic at center stage for Ozzie's intelligence ties... he was in the PSU so he MUST be intelligence... with no sources offered to boot... doesn’t “I BELIEVE” suggest speculation on your part? OSWALD: DID HE HAVE INTELLIGENCE TIES? Yes – and much closer to home than the usual suspects. Much is often made of the influence Robert had on Lee – but I believe John Pic’s influence was far more significant. and you can still spend months attacking others when your own work is so supremely under/un-sourced, vague and speculative... Let's spend the next few months ripping your work apart - shall we? will it serve some purpose? guess we'll see... but first you'd have to actually identify your sources... David, this is nothing more than a 2 year old's tantrum. If my work can be torn apart, it SHOULD be torn apart. But let me give you some advice.You need to actually do it honestly by NOT garbling the facts and mixing those garbled facts with total misrepresentations. Go away, take a deep breath and if you still want to do this, please do - just make sure you've got your facts straight next time. yeah, a 2 year old that can still see thru your smoke screens and the opinions which you present as factual conclusions based on sources you don't offer... Everything I posted is what you wrote... nice avoiding the Radionics though Greg.... and the fact that nothing in that essay even begins to touch on your stated conclusions.. Two plots and at least 4 snipers... at least you're finally taking the evidence and attempting your own conclusions... we'll just have to see if you ever post sources for these opinions and how they check out... or if this all about getting us to go buy the books.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 The forum posts are a copy-paste of a piece of an older essay GP wrote... You spend years attacking Osteopathy trying to support your tonsil ideas and the first essay of yours I read is ultimately based on the overheard Oxnard phone call and your speculations and conclusions that it had to do with Radionics and that there was any connection to what actually happened.. Funny thing is there was another call to a Mrs Tippit that went along these same lines with revelations about Oswald’s father and brother… same MO, crazy person on the phone… but no Radionics with the Tippit call… was that the problem? There were in fact many calls reported which offer glimpses of foreknowledge... but this one stands out for you. You wrote: "Radionics Radionics originated in San Francisco through the experiments conducted by Albert Abrams during the early 20th century. Originally meant as a means of remote diagnosis, it can allegedly be used to remotely affect any "target" in any way desirable. A radionics device has three (external) working parts: a power source (your mind); an intention (what you want to affect) and; a "target" (place/person/object the energy is directed toward)." Basically a crazy sounding women is overheard making strange disjointed comments somehow related to the president's assassination and it is determined she is talking to herself. This becomes the basis for a theory of yours about foreknowledge of 2 Dallas plots & at least 4 shooters, and then you conclude she has prior knowledge - A POTUS is going to the south where he is hated... a woman talking to herself on a phone thinks he will be killed and is overheard... now THAT is some seriously far stretch, or not Greg. "JFK will be killed in Dallas" was talked about by many... many more even stated that they WISHED he was killed when he came to Dallas... no matter, to you Radionics is something worth considering... yet Osteopathy is demon magic… right. I (Greg) believe she was using radionics or a similar means of remotely affecting the assassination. I have no opinion on whether it works. At this point, that is less important than the fact that the woman believed it worked, and that she had prior knowledge of what was about to happen in Dallas. The other unanswered question: was she trying to ensure the success of the assassination, or trying to prevent it? I believe that the totality of her invocations suggests she was trying to ensure success. Radionics Greg? Using one's mind to affect a target at some other location - and you can spend all that time on Ostepathy as an unrecognized discipline. What did you conclude in this essay? "Conclusion: The Oxnard call hints at a plot where two snipers were in place (The original article tries to offer more info yet nothing related to a 2-sniper plot - ths only place in that article the word "sniper" appears is in the bold/italic sentences of the conclusion presented here.) (wow, no stretch there... care to tie that back into her phone call at some point... it's not in the article... and the motorcade was 20 minutes late leaving Love Field, not 5. all these 1st and 2nd plots yet you offer nothing to support that conclusion but more speculation...) The first sniper was in position for the kill shot at the location the motorcade was due to pass by at 12:10. A back-up sniper would also be in place at the Trade Mart. The fact that the motorcade was running 5 minutes late may have caused the first sniper to abort. The second sniper however, would still not be needed, as the second plot got the hit in Dealey Plaza. So you have two plots - one with 2 snipers - at 12:10 he would be scheduled to pass the TSBD but was 20 minutes late leaving Love field - sniper #1 gone. Yet then we have PLOT #2 which actually got him with the frontal shots in DP... what a surprise TWO plots, TWO snipers... gee, where have we heard "TWO" of things before ??? And all this from that one essay and a crazy woman in Oxnard... well done! This first plot was planned and (almost) executed by Californian Right Wing extremists with ties to intelligence, cults and probably also to military brass and/or politicians." We can even identify the would-be Trade Mart patsy: Russell McLarry. He was arrested after being overheard stating he would be waiting with a gun to shoot the President from a building as he neared the Trade Mart. So what did this crazy woman say - as recorded in evidence - which helped give you the "hint" there were two snipers in place? "The caller, continuing in the same rapid whisper, next said, "the Justice, the Supreme Court, there's going to be fire in all the windows, the Government is going up in flames." " The caller followed those statements up with yet another recital of the courts and the words, "The Government takes over everything lock, stock and barrel. " "The above facts brought to mind some of the practices of Wiccans, Rosicrucian and other fringe groups and cults, and so it was along such lines that further inquiry took me" and off you go into the world of witchcraft... but that's okay cause you're a serious researcher and since this is your work, it must be okay to use as a source for your theories. --------------------------------- Another part of this same essay.... You put John Pic at center stage for Ozzie's intelligence ties... he was in the PSU so he MUST be intelligence... with no sources offered to boot... doesn’t “I BELIEVE” suggest speculation on your part? OSWALD: DID HE HAVE INTELLIGENCE TIES? Yes – and much closer to home than the usual suspects. Much is often made of the influence Robert had on Lee – but I believe John Pic’s influence was far more significant. and you can still spend months attacking others when your own work is so supremely under/un-sourced, vague and speculative... Let's spend the next few months ripping your work apart - shall we? will it serve some purpose? guess we'll see... but first you'd have to actually identify your sources... David, this is nothing more than a 2 year old's tantrum. If my work can be torn apart, it SHOULD be torn apart. But let me give you some advice.You need to actually do it honestly by NOT garbling the facts and mixing those garbled facts with total misrepresentations. Go away, take a deep breath and if you still want to do this, please do - just make sure you've got your facts straight next time. yeah, a 2 year old that can still see thru your smoke screens and the opinions which you present as factual conclusions based on sources you don't offer... Everything I posted is what you wrote... nice avoiding the Radionics though Greg.... and the fact that nothing in that essay even begins to touch on your stated conclusions.. Two plots and at least 4 snipers... at least you're finally taking the evidence and attempting your own conclusions... we'll just have to see if you ever post sources for these opinions and how they check out... or if this all about getting us to go buy the books.... For those without a dog in this fight, please read the FBI report originally pointed to by Ron http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11503#relPageId=107&tab=page and my post on that report, also pointed to by Ron http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t28-the-oxnard-riddle-explained and compare those with David's rants here, If anyone WITHOUT A DOG in this, agrees that David has accurately portrayed what those 2 links contain, please jump in and say so. I won't question an independant assessment and will address David's "concerns" on that basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Schmidt Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 A daffy individual can make predictions that turn out to be accurate. Anyone can. IMO, the question is not whether the caller made an accurate prediction. The question is whether the caller was daffy. If she was, her prediction needs to be discounted as mere coincidence. If she was not, she deserves close scrutiny. Based on what I read, I believe the caller was daffy. Why are those mutually exclusive, though, Jon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 The forum posts are a copy-paste of a piece of an older essay GP wrote... You spend years attacking Osteopathy trying to support your tonsil ideas and the first essay of yours I read is ultimately based on the overheard Oxnard phone call and your speculations and conclusions that it had to do with Radionics and that there was any connection to what actually happened.. Funny thing is there was another call to a Mrs Tippit that went along these same lines with revelations about Oswald’s father and brother… same MO, crazy person on the phone… but no Radionics with the Tippit call… was that the problem? There were in fact many calls reported which offer glimpses of foreknowledge... but this one stands out for you. You wrote: "Radionics Radionics originated in San Francisco through the experiments conducted by Albert Abrams during the early 20th century. Originally meant as a means of remote diagnosis, it can allegedly be used to remotely affect any "target" in any way desirable. A radionics device has three (external) working parts: a power source (your mind); an intention (what you want to affect) and; a "target" (place/person/object the energy is directed toward)." Basically a crazy sounding women is overheard making strange disjointed comments somehow related to the president's assassination and it is determined she is talking to herself. This becomes the basis for a theory of yours about foreknowledge of 2 Dallas plots & at least 4 shooters, and then you conclude she has prior knowledge - A POTUS is going to the south where he is hated... a woman talking to herself on a phone thinks he will be killed and is overheard... now THAT is some seriously far stretch, or not Greg. "JFK will be killed in Dallas" was talked about by many... many more even stated that they WISHED he was killed when he came to Dallas... no matter, to you Radionics is something worth considering... yet Osteopathy is demon magic… right. I (Greg) believe she was using radionics or a similar means of remotely affecting the assassination. I have no opinion on whether it works. At this point, that is less important than the fact that the woman believed it worked, and that she had prior knowledge of what was about to happen in Dallas. The other unanswered question: was she trying to ensure the success of the assassination, or trying to prevent it? I believe that the totality of her invocations suggests she was trying to ensure success. Radionics Greg? Using one's mind to affect a target at some other location - and you can spend all that time on Ostepathy as an unrecognized discipline. What did you conclude in this essay? "Conclusion: The Oxnard call hints at a plot where two snipers were in place (The original article tries to offer more info yet nothing related to a 2-sniper plot - ths only place in that article the word "sniper" appears is in the bold/italic sentences of the conclusion presented here.) (wow, no stretch there... care to tie that back into her phone call at some point... it's not in the article... and the motorcade was 20 minutes late leaving Love Field, not 5. all these 1st and 2nd plots yet you offer nothing to support that conclusion but more speculation...) The first sniper was in position for the kill shot at the location the motorcade was due to pass by at 12:10. A back-up sniper would also be in place at the Trade Mart. The fact that the motorcade was running 5 minutes late may have caused the first sniper to abort. The second sniper however, would still not be needed, as the second plot got the hit in Dealey Plaza. So you have two plots - one with 2 snipers - at 12:10 he would be scheduled to pass the TSBD but was 20 minutes late leaving Love field - sniper #1 gone. Yet then we have PLOT #2 which actually got him with the frontal shots in DP... what a surprise TWO plots, TWO snipers... gee, where have we heard "TWO" of things before ??? And all this from that one essay and a crazy woman in Oxnard... well done! This first plot was planned and (almost) executed by Californian Right Wing extremists with ties to intelligence, cults and probably also to military brass and/or politicians." We can even identify the would-be Trade Mart patsy: Russell McLarry. He was arrested after being overheard stating he would be waiting with a gun to shoot the President from a building as he neared the Trade Mart. So what did this crazy woman say - as recorded in evidence - which helped give you the "hint" there were two snipers in place? "The caller, continuing in the same rapid whisper, next said, "the Justice, the Supreme Court, there's going to be fire in all the windows, the Government is going up in flames." " The caller followed those statements up with yet another recital of the courts and the words, "The Government takes over everything lock, stock and barrel. " "The above facts brought to mind some of the practices of Wiccans, Rosicrucian and other fringe groups and cults, and so it was along such lines that further inquiry took me" and off you go into the world of witchcraft... but that's okay cause you're a serious researcher and since this is your work, it must be okay to use as a source for your theories. --------------------------------- Another part of this same essay.... You put John Pic at center stage for Ozzie's intelligence ties... he was in the PSU so he MUST be intelligence... with no sources offered to boot... doesn’t “I BELIEVE” suggest speculation on your part? OSWALD: DID HE HAVE INTELLIGENCE TIES? Yes – and much closer to home than the usual suspects. Much is often made of the influence Robert had on Lee – but I believe John Pic’s influence was far more significant. and you can still spend months attacking others when your own work is so supremely under/un-sourced, vague and speculative... Let's spend the next few months ripping your work apart - shall we? will it serve some purpose? guess we'll see... but first you'd have to actually identify your sources... David, this is nothing more than a 2 year old's tantrum. If my work can be torn apart, it SHOULD be torn apart. But let me give you some advice.You need to actually do it honestly by NOT garbling the facts and mixing those garbled facts with total misrepresentations. Go away, take a deep breath and if you still want to do this, please do - just make sure you've got your facts straight next time. yeah, a 2 year old that can still see thru your smoke screens and the opinions which you present as factual conclusions based on sources you don't offer... Everything I posted is what you wrote... nice avoiding the Radionics though Greg.... and the fact that nothing in that essay even begins to touch on your stated conclusions.. Two plots and at least 4 snipers... at least you're finally taking the evidence and attempting your own conclusions... we'll just have to see if you ever post sources for these opinions and how they check out... or if this all about getting us to go buy the books.... For those without a dog in this fight, please read the FBI report originally pointed to by Ron http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11503#relPageId=107&tab=page and my post on that report, also pointed to by Ron http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t28-the-oxnard-riddle-explained and compare those with David's rants here, If anyone WITHOUT A DOG in this, agrees that David has accurately portrayed what those 2 links contain, please jump in and say so. I won't question an independant assessment and will address David's "concerns" on that basis. So far you have not addressed how this actually relates to JFK (only that you think it somehow does), how the wiki-article on Radionics relates to anything but your assumptions regarding this crazy woman (which remains on par with your Asperger assumptions) or how the conclusion of that along with the original article gets you to TWO PLOTS one with at least TWO snipers and one that succeeded which we know had to be at least TWO snipers... but evidence of TWO Oswalds is simply too much for you. The generalities which lead you to conclusions are simply amazing Greg... as long as it looks a little like a duck, makes a noise which you interpret as a quack and appears out of the corner of your eye as a waddle... it MUST be a duck and G~d forbid anyone disagree with your expert opinion and speculation.... or we get one of those dreaded "nicknames"... Radionics, Rosicrucians, Oxnard UFOs and a Whispering crazy woman - and you have the gall to disparage H&L's real evidence and proven situations... when you're out here talking witchcraft... We call people like that, "a piece of work" where I'm from... the do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do types.... The Oxnard Riddle Explained by greg parker on Fri 30 Oct 2009, 12:00 am Parker SullivanSullivan was President of the General Telephone Company in Santa Monica, California. On the morning of November 22, 1963, two of his experienced operators would overhear the forecasting of the death of JFK at 10:30AM (12:30PM in Dallas). Sullivan, upon learning of this, contacted the FBI at 11:35AM.[1] Mrs Doris M Bliss and Mrs Jean M Shores Special Agent John E Keane was dispatched to obtain statements from the two operators. SA Keane was advised that Mrs Bliss, operating a toll call board, could hear a "fuzzy" sound indicating someone had a receiver off the hook, but that she had got no response when identifying herself as an operator. Then, upon hearing someone whispering, the women related how Mrs Bliss had called Mrs Shores to listen in as it seemed the person may be in trouble. It was now around 10:07 AM local time.[2] Who was the Caller? The caller has never been, and is unlikely to ever be, identified. The General Telephone Company at the time said the call could not be traced. All that is known is that the call originated in the Oxnard-Camarillo region and was made by a female who sounded middle-aged.[3] How Did the Caller Sound? Despite what some have written over the years, the caller was not at any stage hysterical. The caller was described as whispering in a rapid manner which indicated to the operators that she was reciting something that was written. When Mrs Bliss interrupted to ask if she could be of assistance, the woman replied in a clear and normal voice before returning to her "recital" in what was now described as a "definite, rhythmic fast tempo".[4] What Did the Caller Say? After Mrs Shores joined Mrs Bliss on listening in, the caller dialled a few numbers and said faintly, "The President is going to die at 10:10". At hearing this, both operators looked up at the clock. The time was between 10:07 and 10:08. The caller, continuing in the same rapid whisper, next said, "the Justice, the Supreme Court, there's going to be fire in all the windows, the Government is going up in flames." The two operators thought that the woman then placed the receiver on a table and there was no background noise as she proceeded to dial between 12 and 15 digits. It was at this point that Mrs Bliss interrupted. The quite normal, clear and matter-of-fact reply to this offer of help had been, "No. I'm using the phone." The interruption thus cut short, the caller continued as previously described, this time naming at least 12 courts in order of importance from the Supreme Court on down before stating that "The President is going to die at 10:30." But that was not yet the end of it. The caller followed those statements up with yet another recital of the courts and the words, "The Government takes over everything lock, stock and barrel.” That was the last thing Mrs Shores could make out. However Mrs Bliss caught the words "thermostat", "rheostat" and "heostat" before the whispers became inaudible to her as well, and she released the line. The call had lasted an estimated 10 to 15 minutes.[5] Other Facts Another piece of misinformation which circulates about this incident is that the predicted death of JFK had been made to a party on the other end of the line. The facts are however, that both operators stated to the FBI that at no time was there ever any other party on the line and in their opinion, no connection to another party had actually even been made.[6] Mental State Mrs Bliss and Mrs Shores thought that the caller must have been mentally disturbed. This is possibly what has led to the factoid that the woman was "hysterical". At this point it would be useful to revisit what the two operators actually reported her as doing and saying. To paraphrase, •the caller spoke in a low, rhythmic rapid whisper as if reciting from notes •she dialled a series of digits immediately prior to both times in which she made the assassination prediction •she was speaking for the most part, with hands free due to placing receiver on a table or some other surface •she was not talking to any other party •when interrupted with an offer of assistance, she replied in a normal, clear voice, before immediately resuming her "recital" •she repeated the names of all the courts a number of times •she used the imagery of buildings on fire •she ended this odd behavior with the names of controls for heat and energy The above facts brought to mind some of the practices of Wiccans, Rosicrucian and other fringe groups and cults, and so it was along such lines that further inquiry took me. Radionics Radionics originated in San Fransisco through the experiments conducted by Albert Abrams during the early 20th century. Originally meant as a means of remote diagnosis,[7] it can allegedly be used to remotely affect any "target" in any way desirable. A radionics device has three (external) working parts: a power source (your mind); an intention (what you want to affect) and; a "target" (place/person/object the energy is directed toward).[8] Rosicrucians (AMORC) are among a number of groups who practice and teach radionics.[9] One other believer was an inventor named Arthur Young. Young was also the step-father of Michael Paine, and had arranged for Michael to work as an engineer at Bell Helicopter.[10] Young, who had conducted radionics experiments with Frances Farrelly, took things to another level by declaring that "it was the mind of the operator that made the device function, and that it was the symbolic form of the device that dynamically functioned to make it work." This appeared particularly significant since others had discovered they could make the device work even though disconnected from its power supply. Thus, anything in fact that might substitute for the device could substitute, including a drawing of one. And so it was with the target. Where once it was thought you needed a sample of say, blood or hair from the target, now a photo or a signature would suffice. The Ends and the Means This was the heading used in an article published by Rosicrucian Forums magazine during 1963. The article stated that concentration was the most important tool available to the Rosicrucian and goes on to describe it as the "directing of mental processes toward a certain end. We are focusing those processes and powers upon a certain object in order to bring about a situation which we believe is to our advantage and will be to our satisfaction." Was the Caller Using Radionics? I believe she was using radionics or a similar means of remotely affecting the assassination. I have no opinion on whether it works. At this point, that is less important than the fact that the woman believed it worked, and that she had prior knowledge of what was about to happen in Dallas. This leads to a further question: was she trying to ensure the success of the assassination, or trying to prevent it? I believe that the totality of her invocations suggests she was trying to ensure success. Expert Opinion As research leads into areas of little personal knowledge, it is often wise to seek expert opinion as a guide to whether you are "on the right track". This is one of those areas, and as such I contacted Ellis Peterson, a retired maths professor and electrical engineer who writes on such esoteric practices as radionics under the pen-name, Ragnar Storyteller. I wrote to Ellis giving an outline of what I was looking into (but careful not to include anything about the assassination prediction lest it color his reply) and asking his opinion on what was happening. His reply in part was that “she was performing some kind of mental radionics magic; the phone numbers were her way of making the connection. Fire and windows were probably part of her personal incantations." Oxnard-Camarillo Circa '63 The Oxnard-Camarillo region during the Cold War could not look more like an Oliver Stone meets M. Night Shyamalan movie set if it tried. The area was home to: •A Rosicrucian (AMORC) "Pronaos" (in theosophy the term "from the crypt to the pronaos" indicates the start and the end of the process by which thought can be materialized). Here then, the name itself proclaims it as the place where all your wishes can literally be made come true. The address to go? 346 North H St.[11] •The Port Hueneme Naval Surface Weapons Center The Oxnard Air Force Base - cited as the source of UFO sightings in the area during the 1950s and '60s •The Camarillo State Mental Hospital RFK - An Afterword There was a second prediction, probably very much lamented, made by Harold Weisberg. Weisberg said that RFK would be killed if he ever started checking into JFK's death. It seems that Bobby paid a visit to Oxnard to look into this mysterious call.[12] He was shot and killed the next day, allegedly by a "lone nut" - and a member of the Rosicrucians (AMORC). ENDNOTES [1] Commission Document 1107 - FBI Gemberling Report of 15 May 1964, pp82-3 [2] Ibid [3] Ibid [4] Ibid [5] Ibid [6] Ibid [7] Wikipedia entry for Radionics [8] Email to author from Ellis Peterson, July 11, 2008 [9] Rosicrucian (AMORC) Digest, 1943 [10] Arthur M Young Essay, Science, Spirit & The Soul, 1985 [11] Rosicrucian (AMORC) Digest, 1957 (with street address) - still listed in Oxnard in following years, but without street address [12] For details of RFK's efforts in Oxnard to find out about the call, see Peter Noyes, Legacy of Doubt, pp23 The Rosicrucian Order, AMORC is a community of Seekers who study and practice the metaphysical laws governing the universe. Seems pretty obvious to me that the "I'm using the phone" statement was not the same person as the whispering mad woman but a regular customer on the party line... which makes your assumption that the mad woman was a middle age woman a but suspect... but you go right on speculating all you want... when you get to some real evidence, you'll let us know. A wiki-link to the 1968 group who they say is one of the most recent which studied Rosicrucian ways.. this is what you've built your theory upon Greg? and H&L is beyond your acceptance level... whatever Tommaso Palamidessi (Pisa, February 16, 1915 – Rome, April 29, 1983) was an Italian esotericist. Precociously attracted by astrology, parapsychology and yoga-tantric doctrines, he was led by his manifold interests in the field of the occult and by his intense spiritual pursuit to build up an original form of Esoteric Christianity, which he called Archeosophy. In 1968, he founded in Rome the Archeosophical Society, which is still active and counts a few thousand members both in Italy and in the rest of Europe (mainly in Germany, Portugal, and France). Chronological list of groups formed for the study of Rosicrucianism and related subjects: Archeosophical Society, 1968 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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