Douglas Caddy Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 The Devil's Chessboard: Allen Dulles, the CIA, and the Rise of America's Secret Government Hardcover – October 13, 2015by David Talbot (Author) http://www.amazon.com/Devils-Chessboard-Dulles-Americas-Government/dp/0062276166/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1439864715&sr=1-1&keywords=david+talbot+the+devil%27s+chessboard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Gaal Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 The Devil's Chessboard: Allen Dulles, the CIA, and the Rise of America's Secret Government Hardcover – October 13, 2015 by David Talbot (Author) http://www.amazon.com/Devils-Chessboard-Dulles-Americas-Government/dp/0062276166/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1439864715&sr=1-1&keywords=david+talbot+the+devil%27s+chessboard Been waiting and waiting . I will order now. IMHO DULLES THE CEO OF DALLAS . gaal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 I am looking forward to this one also. Probably even more than Brothers. Talbot is the kind of writer who can get on TV and big radio. On top of that, the other side's bench is really depleted of late. Bugliosi and Mack have passed on and McAdams is, let us say, having image problems. So who do they put up against him? Not much there right now. On top of that, it should be an interesting book in and of itself. As Jack White once said, Allen Dulles is in the stratosphere of top suspects in the JFK case. Great title by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Root Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Just an opinion but perhaps Allen Dulles is nothing more than a second stringer compared to John J. McCloy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Jim: Why would you think that? If you look at the WC, Dulles was there more than McCloy was and asked more questions and seems to have worked behind the scenes more than McCloy. McCloy had a job at that time, Dulles did not, at least not overtly. As per their careers, they pretty much are comparable to each other in importance to the Eastern Establishment: Wall Street corporate lawyers, CFR, government service at a rather high level, both worked in espionage a lot, perhaps Dulles even more. The difference as I see it is that Dulles actually got to, more or less, create a covert arm for the people he worked for, that is the CIA. Which he pretty much revolutionized; as Sidney Souers said to Harry Truman, when Truman was prepping his letter/editorial to the Post. To the point that it did not even resemble what Souers designed. In fact, even some stalwart EE Members like Lovett and Bruce could not stomach the Frankenstein Dulles created. Not trying to pick a fight with you, but I would not put Allen Dulles as a second stringer to anyone except the very top level of power. The level above presidents. I always thought Kai Bird's book was mistitled in that regard. For example, when McCloy worked Project Alpha to bring down Carter, by allowing the Shah into the USA, he was working for David Rockefeller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Burnham Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Dulles didn't give orders. He took them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Gaal Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Dulles didn't give orders. He took them. Yes but he could be a sneak. Dulles and Prescott Bush went to Saudi Arabia in the early 1930s to pick off a little of the British oil deals. But yes he was mostly following orders of the elites. ,GAAL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Reading The Wise Men, James, I came to feel that McCloy and Harriman were above Dulles in the governmental food chain. On the WC - another story - that was the Dulles/Ford show for the most part. Hide and confuse Compared to the worldwide direct power McCloy and Harriman wielded, Dulles was IMO, told what to do more than decided what to do. Not trying to pick a fight either... I see McCloy and Harriman closer to Bundy and the top levels of power than Allen who at the end of the day was supposed to do what he was told by the military and this circle of global movers/shakers. Allen, IMO, did not have this kind of clout other than in influencing the Warren Commission and keeping secrets. These two, on the other hand, influenced virtually everything. McCloy: The State-War-Navy Coordinating Committee (SWNCC, "swink") was a United States federal government committee created in December 1944 to address the political-military issues involved in the occupation of the Axis powers following the end of World War II. SWNCC was an important precursor to the National Security Council, and represents perhaps the most successful integration of military and civilian assets in the history of U.S. foreign policy. As a result, it has received renewed scrutiny in the wake of the Iraq War as the U.S. government attempts to overhaul its interagency national security system. During World War II, interagency coordination had been largely informal and mediated by president Roosevelt, but recognizing the need for deeper integration, the Secretary of State, Secretary of War, and Secretary of the Navy began holding weekly meetings to work through shared problems. However, the so-called "Committee of Three" had no specific mandate or authority, and this weakness became apparent as the war moved toward its conclusions and the details of occupation planning began to occupy the various departments.As soon as he became Secretary of State, Edward Stettinius sent a letter to War Secretary Henry Stimson and Navy Secretary James Forrestal proposing that they create a jointly managed secretariat to plan the occupations and achieve full integration of U.S. foreign policy. The secretariat was headed by Roosevelt favorite, Assistant Secretary of War John J. McCloy John Jay McCloy (March 31, 1895 – March 11, 1989, was a Wall Street lawyer and banker who served as Assistant Secretary of War during World War II, where he made many major decisions. After the war he served as president of the World Bank, U.S. High Commissioner for Germany, chairman of Chase Manhattan Bank, and chairman of the Council on Foreign Relations. He later became a prominent United States presidential advisor, served on the Warren Commission, and was a member of the foreign policy establishment group of elders called "The Wise Men." ------- William Averell Harriman (November 15, 1891 – July 26, 1986) was an American Democratic Party politician, businessman, and diplomat. He was the son of railroad baron E. H. Harriman. He served as Secretary of Commerce under President Harry S. Truman and later as the 48th Governor of New York. He was a candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination in 1952, and again in 1956 when he was endorsed by President Truman but lost to Adlai Stevenson both times. Harriman served President Franklin D. Roosevelt as special envoy to Europe and served as the U.S. Ambassador to the Soviet Union and U.S. Ambassador to Britain. He served in numerous U.S. diplomatic assignments in the Kennedy and Johnson administrations. He was a core member of the group of foreign policy elders known as "The Wise Men". Using money from his father he established W.A. Harriman & Co banking business in 1922. In 1927 his brother Roland joined the business and the name was changed to Harriman Brothers & Company. In 1931, it merged with Brown Bros. & Co. to create the highly successful Wall Street firm Brown Brothers Harriman & Co. Notable employees included George Herbert Walker and his son-in-law Prescott Bush. Harriman's main properties included Brown Brothers & Harriman & Co, Union Pacific Railroad, Merchant Shipping Corporation, and venture capital investments that included the Polaroid Corporation. Harriman's associated properties included the Southern Pacific Railroad (including the Central Pacific Railroad), Illinois Central Railroad, Wells Fargo & Co., the Pacific Mail Steamship Co., American Ship & Commerce, Hamburg-Amerikanische Packetfahrt-Aktiengesellschaft (HAPAG), the American Hawaiian Steamship Co., United American Lines, the Guaranty Trust Company, and the Union Banking Corporation. He served as Chairman of The Business Council, then known as the Business Advisory Council for the United States Department of Commerce in 1937 and 1939 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon G. Tidd Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 David Talbot is a journalist. Which means when he writes something, he gathers facts; the facts form a story; the story has a beginning, a middle, and a conclusion. Fine. If one looks at Talbot's online Salon website, one finds some useful information. What one finds primarily is bias in the writing of Salon pieces. Which is also OK. I'm able to digest bias. Bias is anathema to a truth teller. David Talbot has a bent toward bias. Fine, so do all historians. So count me a skeptic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) My reading of the Warren Report is that Dulles is directing the minutiae of questioning and the steering of Committee opinion more than McCloy. A hands-on performance. McCloy is big-picture and policy. Edited August 21, 2015 by David Andrews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) Jim: Why would you think that? If you look at the WC, Dulles was there more than McCloy was and asked more questions and seems to have worked behind the scenes more than McCloy. McCloy had a job at that time, Dulles did not, at least not overtly. As per their careers, they pretty much are comparable to each other in importance to the Eastern Establishment: Wall Street corporate lawyers, CFR, government service at a rather high level, both worked in espionage a lot, perhaps Dulles even more. The difference as I see it is that Dulles actually got to, more or less, create a covert arm for the people he worked for, that is the CIA. Which he pretty much revolutionized; as Sidney Souers said to Harry Truman, when Truman was prepping his letter/editorial to the Post. To the point that it did not even resemble what Souers designed. In fact, even some stalwart EE Members like Lovett and Bruce could not stomach the Frankenstein Dulles created. Joe Kennedy hated Dulles. The question I have is -- Did Robert Lovett & Joe Kennedy have the motive, means and opportunity to sabotage the Bay of Pigs to provide a rationale for Dulles' eventual dismissal? Sure looks like Dean Rusk and McGeorge Bundy sabotaged the operation -- and not to entice JFK into US military action. That plan was NEVER on the table, as Greg Burnham has pointed out. Joe Kennedy was positively gleeful after the BOP -- "I know that outfit, and I wouldn't pay them a hundred bucks a week. It's a lucky thing they were found out early." http://cryptome.org/0001/bruce-lovett.htm Not trying to pick a fight with you, but I would not put Allen Dulles as a second stringer to anyone except the very top level of power. The level above presidents. I always thought Kai Bird's book was mistitled in that regard. For example, when McCloy worked Project Alpha to bring down Carter, by allowing the Shah into the USA, he was working for David Rockefeller. Edited August 21, 2015 by Cliff Varnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Gaal Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 (edited) David Talbot is a journalist. Which means when he writes something, he gathers facts; the facts form a story; the story has a beginning, a middle, and a conclusion. Fine. If one looks at Talbot's online Salon website, one finds some useful information. What one finds primarily is bias in the writing of Salon pieces. Which is also OK. I'm able to digest bias. Bias is anathema to a truth teller. David Talbot has a bent toward bias. Fine, so do all historians. So count me a skeptic. NO NEED TO BE SKEPTIC . gaal ========================================= In any case, your case for a CIA plot to kill JFK is based only on political bias, and not on solid evidence. That's my final word on it. Regards, --Paul Trejo == SUSPECT # 1 Allen Dulles. (Gaal,That's my final word on it.) "That little Kennedy," he spat out. "He thought he was a god." (Quote Suspect #1) THREAD CONTENTS >>>>> THREAD http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=21367 +++++++++++++++++++++++++ part 1 = introduction Allen Dulles and his friends part 2 Allen Dulles and the Cabots and Paines part 3 = Lansdale part 4 = FAR RIGHT AND THE FALSE FAR RIGHT Part 5 = Dulles and a slow car turn assassination Part 6 = What are some of the motivations of suspect # 1 Allen Dulles ? Part 7 = JFK NOT GLOBALIST ENOUGH Part 8 = highlights review Part 9 == Dulles previously used a patsy in assassination and patsy died before investigation , said operation was a success Part 10 == DINNER AND ASSASSINATION ( and lunch with Dallas Council on World Affairs) Part 11 == NOW LET US PRAY The Unitarian Connection to LHO (pray we also don't get caught = see very bottom) ======================================== Addendum # 1 total continuity Dulles connection Treasury Department Head Councils 1950s to past assassination ---- Dulles had a private "CIA" of his own that in part consisted of : Casey,Taylor, Lansdale,Paines,Gatlin,De Mohrenschildt and the head lawyers of the Treasury Department from the 50s to past the assassination : Fred C. Scribner ,David A. Lindsay and Gaspard d'Andelot Belin (all General Counsel for the Department of the Treasury. ) I have posted before of the Dulles connections to Scribner and Belin,see (http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=21122&p=286020 , see post # 13) and below I give some of my Lindsay research. If there are problems with the Secret Service ,you don't have to look farther than Dulles. gaal }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} Also SEE // Autobiography of a Spy by Mary Bancroft (Re: Dulles,BUNDY,Belin,JJA) David A. Lindsay >> Skull & Bones 1944 (DULLES AND Prescott Bush close friends from early 1930s) BELOW LINK AND QUOTE FROM http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=18657&p=244149 " Bush connections are.: Tom Devine through his CIA affiliation, his meeting(s) with DeMohrenschildt and his Paris Review links via Francis Plimpton's son, George, and Devine's long association with Plimpton's Paris Review partner, John Train who is connected to the IRC and the WWF. Prince Sandrudden was Paris Review "publisher," IRC principal, and close friend of GHW Bush. WWF was led by Train's cousin, Russell, and his appointed manager, Curtis EU "Chip" Bohlen, covert CIA man and an usher, along with Devine, in the 1955 wedding of CIA's Albert Bradley Carter, Jr. Twins John and David Lindsay were usher's in Nancy Bush's wedding. Their brother, George was hired by Francis Plimpton at his Plimpton Debevoise law firm in 1947, and became managing partner. Partner Eli Whitney Debevoise, a bonesman, was counsel to HICOG McCloy, and then deputy HICOG under McCloy. Both Leon Panetta and Ed Hooker's daughter, Susan's second husband (after she was divorced from Rionda Braga's son) Michael Ainslie, were employed in John Lindsay's NYC mayor's office. After Nancy Bush's 1946 wedding to Alexander Irwin, Yale roommate of John Chafee and of Charles Whitehouse, the Irwins made their home in Montreal. The front story is that Irwin managed the family insurance brokerage office there. The back stroy is that Irwin, Macomber, and David Lindsay were all members of the 1943 Yale football squad and OSS thought enough of William Macomber to give him official cover as a USMC captain while he worked covert for OSS behind the lines in France and then was sent to work for OSS in Burma. You may be aware that it was very rare for a covert OSS operator to be assigned to missions in both the European and Pacific theaters. Macomber just happens to end up as assistant to John Foster Dulles and in 1963, married to one of Dulles's three personal secretaries, Bernau. Macomber just happens to be invited by Pres Bush to witness JFK's taking the oath as U.S. senator. " ======================================== Skull & Bones 1944 James Lane Buckley Shehand Daniel Elebash Alexander Ellis, Jr. James Lord Ferguson John Bannister Goodenough William Cabell Grayson John Morgan Holden Townsend Walter Hoopes W.C. Kelly II David A. Lindsay Stuart W. Little Jeffrey Pond Walker James Allen Whitmore, Jr. Dean Witter, Jr. Archibald J..Allen, Jr. ================= A Nation Divided: The 1968 Presidential Campaign https://books.google...isbn=0595236995 Darcy G. Richardson - 2002 - History " David A. Lindsay, Mayor John V. Lindsay's twin brother, was McCarthy's choice for ... Secretary of the Treasury; William Clay Ford, vice president and director of ... " ===================== Addendum # 2 ===== Scott stated that he had in- formation that indicated Murret was linked with the "communist apparatus" of Pro- fessor Harold Isaacs of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. 39 // Hargrove quoting H & L ======================================== Forgive me if I don't remember correctly, but I recall researcher Bruce Adamson had a Dulles letter to Isaacs asking him if this then unknown man Henry Kissinger could use some of his vault safe for Mr. Kissinger's papers. ,gaal Since it has been reported Murret an Isaacs operative and thus LHO only two degrees of separation from Allen Dulles suspect # 1 (per gaal). , gaal ================================================== Coincidence or Conspiracy? pp. 217-218, in a description of Professor Harold Isaacs; this connection with the CIA was confirmed by Mrs. Isaacs. ==--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------== https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_Center_for_International_Studies "The MIT Center for International Studies was one of several academic research centers founded in the United States after World War II.[3] Its creation was originally funded by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), in order to provide expert analysis on issues pertaining to the Cold War rivalry with the Soviet Union.[4] " (Isaacs workplace,gaal) ======== link for below http://www.kenrahn.com/Marsh/Jfk-conspiracy/cumings2.htm "Among the earliest and the most important of international studies centers was MIT's Center for International Studies, or CENIS. In its early years in the 1950s, the CIA underwrote this center almost as a subsidiary enterprise; CENIS grew out of "Project Troy," begun by the State Department in 1950 "to explore international information and communication patterns." It later broadened its agenda to "social science inquiry on international affairs,"57 but narrowed its sponsorship mostly to the CIA. This is evident in the transcript of a visiting committee meeting at MIT in May 1959, attended by MIT faculty like W. W. Rostow, Ithiel de Sola Pool, Max Millikan, and James Killian (president of MIT for several years); the visitors included Robert Lovett, McGeorge Bundy, and several unidentified participants.58 Queried as to whether the center served just the CIA or a larger group of government departments, Millikan remarked that over the five years of the center's relationship with the CIA, "there has been some continuing ambiguity as to whether we were creatures of [the] CIA or whether [the] CIA was acting as an administrative office for other agencies." He also admitted that the center had "taken on projects under pressure" to have work done that the CIA wanted done (these were among "the least successful projects" from MIT's standpoint, he thought). At one point in the transcript Millikan also says that "[Allen] Dulles allowed us to hire three senior people,"* suggesting that the CIA director had a hand in CENIS's hiring policies. The center provided an important go-between or holding area for the CIA, since "top notch social scientists" and "area experts" had no patience for extended periods of residence at CIA headquarters: "A center like ours provides a way of getting men in academic work to give them [sic] a close relationship with concrete problems faced by people in government." " _____________ *Dulles in charge of Isaacs workplace. ,gaal ================= also see http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=19762&p=312098 ================================= Edited August 21, 2015 by Steven Gaal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Schmidt Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 The question I have is -- Did Robert Lovett & Joe Kennedy have the motive, means and opportunity to sabotage the Bay of Pigs to provide a rationale for Dulles' eventual dismissal? I hope you're joking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 (edited) The question I have is -- Did Robert Lovett & Joe Kennedy have the motive, means and opportunity to sabotage the Bay of Pigs to provide a rationale for Dulles' eventual dismissal? I hope you're joking. I never joke, 007. Before you demonstrate the principle of contempt prior to investigation I suggest you study the material contained herein: http://cryptome.org/0001/bruce-lovett.htm Robert Lovett and Joe Kennedy had it in for Allen Dulles. Edited August 22, 2015 by Cliff Varnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 (edited) GB: Dulles didn't give orders. He took them. JD: Not trying to pick a fight with you, but I would not put Allen Dulles as a second stringer to anyone except the very top level of power. The level above presidents. David, as per The Wise Men, I would never take someone like Isaacson as the last word on something like that since he himself is the MSM ultimate insider. How does one explain the combination of having Foster Dulles as Secretary of State and Allen Dulles as CIA Director? If that isn't power then what is? Just take a look at what happened in Congo, Indonesia, Guatemala and Iran. Its Dulles' unique position inside the EE that makes him such an intriguing suspect. Plus his connection to those who, the weight of the evidence reveals were involved on the managerial and operational level. And finally, his leading position as part of the WC cover up. Edited August 22, 2015 by James DiEugenio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now