Where was Roy Truly Right after the last Shot was Fired?

[Robert Prudhomme]

Suffice it to say, we really are not sure where Truly was standing while watching the motorcade, although he had to have been on the Elm St. sidewalk in order to see the limo swerve to the left and stop.

During his testimony, Truly was asked to pinpoint exactly where he was standing:

"Mr. BELIN. And the camera would be pointing north on Exhibit 495.

I wonder if on that exhibit you would put the place where you and Mr. Campbell first stood, and mark that with the letter "A" if you would.
Mr. TRULY. The street curved there, I suppose. I think possibly along here somewheres.
Mr. BELIN. You have marked a letter "A" on Exhibit 495. Now, I believe you said that afterwards you went and moved out towards the street, is that correct?
Mr. TRULY. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. I am going to put up on the board Commission Exhibit No. 361. The bottom of the picture is relatively north, sir.
And the top faces roughly south.
And here is the Texas School Book Depository Building--located at Houston and Elm.
Mr. TRULY. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. I wonder if you could put on Exhibit 361 with the letter "T" the spot at which you were standing when you moved to a closer position to watch the motorcade.
Mr. TRULY. I could be off a few feet, but I believe possibly over this way just a bit--that is within 3 or 4 or 5 feet of this area.
We were almost out in this. And I think when the motorcade came around, we probably pushed out even a bit farther.
Mr. BELIN. Now, by this, you are referring to the entrance to the parkway, is that correct?
Mr. TRULY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. And, you say that you are either at the spot marked by the letter. "T" or perhaps a little bit to the east of that?
Mr. TRULY. That is right.
Mr. BELIN. And that you gradually might have moved a little bit towards the south, towards the parkway, is that correct?
Mr. TRULY. That is correct."

Has anyone ever seen a copy of the exhibit on which Truly marked his position?

[Robert Prudhomme]

Here is a link to CE 361, on which Truly supposedly marked his location on Elm St. with a "T".

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/pdf/WH16_CE_361.pdf

I have enlarged this exhibit and cannot see where Truly placed a "T" on it.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Robert Prudhomme

[Robert Prudhomme]

In comparison, CE 495:

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0118a.htm

The "A" marked by Truly can clearly be seen at the foot of the steps.

[Thomas Graves]

Suffice it to say, we really are not sure where Truly was standing while watching the motorcade, although he had to have been on the Elm St. sidewalk in order to see the limo swerve to the left and stop.

During his testimony, Truly was asked to pinpoint exactly where he was standing:

"Mr. BELIN. And the camera would be pointing north on Exhibit 495.

I wonder if on that exhibit you would put the place where you and Mr. Campbell first stood, and mark that with the letter "A" if you would.

Mr. TRULY. The street curved there, I suppose. I think possibly along here somewheres.

Mr. BELIN. You have marked a letter "A" on Exhibit 495. Now, I believe you said that afterwards you went and moved out towards the street, is that correct?

Mr. TRULY. That is right.

Mr. BELIN. I am going to put up on the board Commission Exhibit No. 361. The bottom of the picture is relatively north, sir.

And the top faces roughly south.

And here is the Texas School Book Depository Building--located at Houston and Elm.

Mr. TRULY. That is right.

Mr. BELIN. I wonder if you could put on Exhibit 361 with the letter "T" the spot at which you were standing when you moved to a closer position to watch the motorcade.

Mr. TRULY. I could be off a few feet, but I believe possibly over this way just a bit--that is within 3 or 4 or 5 feet of this area.

We were almost out in this. And I think when the motorcade came around, we probably pushed out even a bit farther.

Mr. BELIN. Now, by this, you are referring to the entrance to the parkway, is that correct?

Mr. TRULY. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. And, you say that you are either at the spot marked by the letter. "T" or perhaps a little bit to the east of that?

Mr. TRULY. That is right.

Mr. BELIN. And that you gradually might have moved a little bit towards the south, towards the parkway, is that correct?

Mr. TRULY. That is correct."

Has anyone ever seen a copy of the exhibit on which Truly marked his position?

Robert,

Not true, I'm afraid. Truly could have seen the limo "swerve and stop" if he was standing in the Elm Street Extension in that curving line of people which curved towards the east-north-east from the tip of the island.

By "entrance to the parkway," I think Belin meant the area where Elm Street Extension's pavement merged with the pavement of Elm Street. Elm Street itself was really was a long freeway entrance; a "parkway" or "expressway."

"Moved out towards the street" means walked out onto the shoulder of Elm Street itself, IMHO.

--Tommy

Edited July 19, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Clive Largey]

That footage with Baker and Truly inside the building was apparently taken by Alyea so that supports what we see in Darnell of the man not stepping aside for a cop running into his building for no apparent reason, same black hat and suit.

Perhaps Roy was simply heading back inside to grab some lunch after hearing and seeing nothing worth hanging around for?

Then he hears one of the lead players behind him shouting for people to move out the way and unfortunately for us, becomes a little too involved.

[Glenn Nall]

i've seen Mr Truly's name mentioned in a curious way a few times - THE GUN THAT DIDN'T SMOKE piece states that a Mauser was seen in his possession two days before the shooting; Bartholomew also suggests some significance in the floors of the TSBD being "redone" during the months of October and the first of November, up to the 5th floor, curiously enough, and suggests that as Mr Truly was more of a building manager than a company manager he would have worked more directly for DH Byrd...

just some suspicious points... is there any reason to wonder if he was in collusion with someone at some level...?

[Robert Prudhomme]

That footage with Baker and Truly inside the building was apparently taken by Alyea so that supports what we see in Darnell of the man not stepping aside for a cop running into his building for no apparent reason, same black hat and suit.

Perhaps Roy was simply heading back inside to grab some lunch after hearing and seeing nothing worth hanging around for?

Then he hears one of the lead players behind him shouting for people to move out the way and unfortunately for us, becomes a little too involved.

Considering that Campbell and Truly were on their way out for lunch when they stopped to watch the motorcade, it would seem odd that Truly would be heading back inside for some lunch.

This is why his actions are so odd. Baker was at the foot of the steps of the TSBD within seconds of the last shot, and Truly was at the steps long before Baker made it there, yet Truly was also able to watch the limo swerve to the left and stop AFTER the last shot. This gave Truly very little time to go from his position on the Elm St. sidewalk to the foot of the stairs. It also makes a mockery of his WC testimony, where he testified that a panicky mob "bore him back to the steps". Not only do none of the films show a mob pushing back to the TSBD, he would have already been at the steps before anyone in the crowd even began to react.

Seriously, a man hears three shots fired as the President goes by, sees the Presidential limo swerve to the left and stop, and sees people beginning to react to the assassination, and he doesn't stick around to see what happened? He's not the least bit curious?

Give me a break.

[Clive Largey]

That footage with Baker and Truly inside the building was apparently taken by Alyea so that supports what we see in Darnell of the man not stepping aside for a cop running into his building for no apparent reason, same black hat and suit.

Perhaps Roy was simply heading back inside to grab some lunch after hearing and seeing nothing worth hanging around for?

Then he hears one of the lead players behind him shouting for people to move out the way and unfortunately for us, becomes a little too involved.

Considering that Campbell and Truly were on their way out for lunch when they stopped to watch the motorcade, it would seem odd that Truly would be heading back inside for some lunch.

This is why his actions are so odd. Baker was at the foot of the steps of the TSBD within seconds of the last shot, and Truly was at the steps long before Baker made it there, yet Truly was also able to watch the limo swerve to the left and stop AFTER the last shot. This gave Truly very little time to go from his position on the Elm St. sidewalk to the foot of the stairs. It also makes a mockery of his WC testimony, where he testified that a panicky mob "bore him back to the steps". Not only do none of the films show a mob pushing back to the TSBD, he would have already been at the steps before anyone in the crowd even began to react.

Seriously, a man hears three shots fired as the President goes by, sees the Presidential limo swerve to the left and stop, and sees people beginning to react to the assassination, and he doesn't stick around to see what happened? He's not the least bit curious?

Give me a break.

He had little choice but to get involved since his only other option was to tell the truth and admit he was stood right there and saw nothing and who would believe that?

There's about half dozen others heading back inside too, so he wasn't alone.

Between Wiegman and Darnell there is about twenty seconds, that's plenty of time for Roy to walk back to that position after seeing nothing worth hanging around for.

At the very least, if he heard shots, he'd have warned others but there is no evidence of anything like that from anyone outside the TSBD in Wiegman, they all remained completely unconcerned.

What happens between Wiegman and Darnell is aftermath, that's what the people outside the TSBD reacted too and Truly would have missed it all if he hadn't been in Baker's way.

Perhaps he heard some firecracker like sounds that became shots after he was told there was a shooting and then, when he reaches the roof and looks down he suddenly has an opinion on where they came from.

Robert, it's him in Darnell, he's walking back to the building from somewhere to the east, you know that means his testimony is unreliable, so why keep prioritising it?

Back to lunch, back to work, out the back to warm the motor, who knows?

[Robert Prudhomme]

Clive

"Mr. TRULY. I heard an explosion, which I thought was a toy cannon or a loud firecracker from west of the building. Nothing happened at this first explosion. Everything was frozen. And immediately after two more explosions, which I realized that I thought was a gun, a rifle of some kind.

The President's--I saw the President's car swerve to the left and stop somewheres down in this area. It is misleading here. And that is the last I saw of his ear, because this crowd, when the third shot rang out--there was a large crowd all along this abutment here, this little wall, and there was some around us in front--they began screaming and falling to the ground. And the people in front of myself and Mr. Campbell surged back, either in terror or panic. They must have seen this thing. I became separated from Mr. Campbell. They just practically bore me back to the first step on the entrance of our building.
Mr. BELIN. When you saw the President's car seem to stop, how long did it appear to stop?
Mr. TRULY. It would be hard to say over a second or two or something like that. I didn't see I just saw it stop. I don't know. I didn't see it start up.
Mr. BELIN. Then you stopped looking at it, or you were distracted by something else?
Mr. TRULY. Yes. The crowd in front of me kind of congealed around me and bore me back through weight of numbers, and I lost sight of it.
I think there were a lot of people trying to get out of the way of something. They didn't know what."

Does Truly appear to be confused about whether or not he heard rifle shots?

Is there any photographic or film evidence to support his statement that a large crowd congealed around him and bore him back to the steps?

Truly's testimony is more than unreliable, it sounds fabricated.

[Robert Prudhomme]

If that is Truly near the foot of the steps, where is the crowd that congealed around him and bore him back to the steps?

Was Truly heading to a pre-arranged rendezvous with Baker?

[Thomas Graves]

Fascinating is the fact that in her 1964 WC testimony, Jeraldean Reid (AKA Mrs. Robert A. Reid) said she was standing near Ochus Campbell and Roy Truly some distance directly in front of the front steps during the assassination and that Campbell told her that the shots had come from the Grassy Knoll area.

EDIT: I just read her 11/23/63 affidavit (see below). In it she says she was standing near Campbell but that someone else said the shots had come from the Grassy Knoll area. This is different from what she testified later to the Warren Commission.

Jeraldean Reid appears in a few photographs and films:

The frame on the bottom right (with the vertical red arrow) is from the Dave Wiegman film. In the video below, that frame is easiest to see at 01:04.

Please compare that frame with the frames viewable at 0.45 in the following version of the Wiegman film--

I believe the two suit-wearing men barely visible on the far right at 0:45 in the video (above the Chevy's right tail fin), just a few people away from where Jeraldean Reid was standing (she is hidden behind another woman at 0:45) could be Roy Truly and Ochus Campbell.

FWIW, she said that about two minutes after the assassination she encountered, shortly after she entered her large second-floor office area, a t-shirt wearing Oswald passing through in the general direction of the front elevator / front stairs with a full bottle of Coke.

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/reid.htm

Her first name was not Jeraldine or Geraldine. It was Jeraldean. Her maiden name was Bray. She was born on August 24, 1912, so she was fifty-one years old on 11/22/63.

--Tommy

PS The photo of her sitting with Homicide Detective Jim Leavelle was taken on 11/23/63 according to Leavelle's April 7, 1964, WC testimony, ergo her different clothing.

Mr. BALL. You went to work at what time Saturday morning, November 23, 1963?

Mr. LEAVELLE. It would be around 8 o'clock, I imagine.
Mr. BALL. And did you take some statements that day?
Mr. LEAVELLE. Chances are I may have, I do not remember.
Mr. BALL. Here is----
Mr. LEAVELLE. It says took one affidavit from R. S. Truly, supervisor of Texas School Book and the other of employee, Mrs. R. A. Reid.
Mr. BALL. You are refreshing your memory from a report that you made, is that correct?
Mr. LEAVELLE. Yes.

Here is Reid's 11/23/63 affidavit from the Dallas Municipal Archives:

51. Affidavit In Any Fact typed, by Mrs. R. A. Reid. Statement as an employee of the Texas School Book Depository. States she saw Oswald leave the back office near the lunch room after the shooting, 11/23/63. 00001327 1 page 05 02 051 1327-001.gif

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/index.html

Edited January 31, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Ed LeDoux]

Where was Roy Truly Right after the last Shot was Fired?

Looking for a new employee to fill a sudden vacancy.

[Thomas Graves]

Where was Roy Truly Right after the last Shot was Fired?

Looking for a new employee to fill a sudden vacancy.

I heard he'd started looking for someone a couple of weeks before that.

Just kidding.

--Tommy

[Glenn Nall]

Where was Roy Truly Right after the last Shot was Fired?

Looking for a new employee to fill a sudden vacancy.

ha! very good... glad to see someone else attempting a little levity in here...

[Thomas Graves]

Fascinating is the fact that in her 1964 WC testimony, Jeraldean Reid (AKA Mrs. Robert A. Reid) said she was standing near Ochus Campbell and Roy Truly some distance directly in front of the front steps during the assassination and that Campbell told her that the shots had come from the Grassy Knoll area.

EDIT: I just read her 11/23/63 affidavit (see below). In it she says she was standing near Campbell but that someone else said the shots had come from the Grassy Knoll area. This is different from what she testified later to the Warren Commission.

Jeraldean Reid appears in a few photographs and films:

The frame with the vertical red arrow is from the Dave Wiegman film. In the video below, that frame is easiest to see at 1:04.

Please compare that frame with the frames viewable at 0.45 in the following version of the Wiegman film--

I believe the two suit-wearing men barely visible on the far right at 0:45 in the video (above the Chevy's right tail fin), just a few people away from where Jeraldean Reid was standing (she is hidden behind another woman at 0:45) could be Roy Truly and Ochus Campbell.

FWIW, she said that about two minutes after the assassination she encountered, shortly after she entered her large second-floor office area, a t-shirt wearing Oswald passing through in the general direction of the front elevator / front stairs with a full bottle of Coke.

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/reid.htm

Her first name was not Jeraldine or Geraldine. It was Jeraldean. Her maiden name was Bray. She was born on August 24, 1912, so she was fifty-one years old on 11/22/63.

--Tommy

PS The photo of her sitting with Homicide Detective Jim Leavelle was taken on 11/23/63 according to Leavelle's April 7, 1964, WC testimony, ergo her different clothing.

Mr. BALL. You went to work at what time Saturday morning, November 23, 1963?

Mr. LEAVELLE. It would be around 8 o'clock, I imagine.

Mr. BALL. And did you take some statements that day?

Mr. LEAVELLE. Chances are I may have, I do not remember.

Mr. BALL. Here is----

Mr. LEAVELLE. It says took one affidavit from R. S. Truly, supervisor of Texas School Book and the other of employee, Mrs. R. A. Reid.

Mr. BALL. You are refreshing your memory from a report that you made, is that correct?

Mr. LEAVELLE. Yes.

Here is Reid's 11/23/63 affidavit from the Dallas Municipal Archives:

[51.] Affidavit In Any Fact typed, by Mrs. R. A. Reid. Statement as an employee of the Texas School Book Depository. States she saw Oswald leave the back office near the lunch room after the shooting, 11/23/63. 00001327 1 page 05 02 051 1327-001.gif

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/index.html

Bumped because I put a lot of time into this post and I would appreciate some constructive feedback / observations.

I mean, does anyone else even see the two suited guys I'm talking about at 0:45 of the youtube video? If so, do you agree with me that they could be the diminutive Truly on the left and O.V. Campbell next to him on the right?

Does anyone else agree that that's Jeraldean Bray Reid (Mrs. Robert A. Reid) face that's barely visible in the Wiegman frame capture with the vertical red arrow?

Please note once again that the photo of her sitting with Detective Jim Leavelle in the Homicide and Robbery Bureau office was taken on 11/23/63 while Leavelle was taking her affidavit.

Thanks,

--Tommy

Edited August 6, 2015 by Thomas Graves