Where was Roy Truly Right after the last Shot was Fired?

[Ed LeDoux]

Thanks for this thread Tommy,

Could be, but isn't Truly farther back near the building, on the sidewalk, as Baker runs by him as seen in the Darnell/Wiegman clips?
If so can you demonstrate Trulys movement between said position next to "OV" and where he is when Baker runs past.
Or a closer comparrison of know Truly images and the Suited man.

That could be her face sticking out Tommy.

How was it shown the lady in Homicide office is Jeraldean Bray Reid (Mrs. Robert A. Reid)?
I thought last word was woman in the office due to dress, age, purse, gloves, coat, and other accoutrements did not match and thus was not her.
What provenance do we have for the picture so far Tommy? Who took it and when?

Saturday 23rd report:
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/09/0958-002.gifJA REID AFFIDAVIT MENTIONED


http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/15/1529-001.gif OV Campbell


Plus Jim Leavelle can stick this report below in his butt as he does not know what it takes to be pre-med and take 18-21 credit hours a semester when everyone else is taking 12, plus working part time!! Jim Leavelle shows his ignorance. And if anyone was to be chatted up by Ruby it would be someone whom is a higher class person looking to become a doctor. And if said student was looking to open a lounge even more reason for a conversation with Ruby.
The person introduced may likely be Crafard.
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/15/1576-001.gif

[Thomas Graves]

Thanks for this thread Tommy,

Could be, but isn't Truly farther back near the building, on the sidewalk, as Baker runs by him as seen in the Darnell/Wiegman clips?

If so can you demonstrate Trulys movement between said position next to "OV" and where he is when Baker runs past.

Or a closer comparrison of know Truly images and the Suited man.

That could be her face sticking out Tommy.

How was it shown the lady in Homicide office is Jeraldean Bray Reid (Mrs. Robert A. Reid)?

I thought last word was woman in the office due to dress, age, purse, gloves, coat, and other accoutrements did not match and thus was not her.

What provenance do we have for the picture so far Tommy? Who took it and when?

Saturday 23rd report:

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/09/0958-002.gifJA REID AFFIDAVIT MENTIONED

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/15/1529-001.gif OV Campbell

Plus Jim Leavelle can stick this report below in his butt as he does not know what it takes to be pre-med and take 18-21 credit hours a semester when everyone else is taking 12, plus working part time!! Jim Leavelle shows his ignorance. And if anyone was to be chatted up by Ruby it would be someone whom is a higher class person looking to become a doctor. And if said student was looking to open a lounge even more reason for a conversation with Ruby.

The person introduced may likely be Crafard.

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/15/1576-001.gif

Ed,

Thanks for the feedback and the questions.

You ask if Truly "isn't farther back near the building, on the sidewalk, as Baker runs past him as seen in Darnell / Wiegman."

Baker is seen running past Truly in Darnell / Couch, but not in Weigman. Weigman was already running down Elm Street (with his movie camera running) when Darnell and Couch "caught" Baker running past Truly.

Darnell / Couch:

Credit: Gerda Dunckel. Click on image to enlarge a bit.

As regards Jeraldean Reid, all i know is that she was 51 years of age at the time of the assassination, that she gave an affidavit to Det. Jim Leavelle on 11/23/63, and that she claimed in her WC testimony to have been standing in the street (or on the curb) near Campbell and Truly during the assassination.

Jim Leavelle is on record as having taken Reid's affidavit on 11/23/63.

In the photo of the woman sitting with Leavelle in the Homicide and Robbery Bureau, Leavelle appears to be writing a report of some sort and the woman looks like she could be in her early fifties, so I think it's reasonable to assume that the woman is Jearaldean Reid and the report that Leavelle is writing is Reid's affidavit.

The four photos / frames with red arrows are, clockwise from upper right:

1 ) A Darnell / Couch frame.

2 ) A Dave Wiegman frame, best viewed in slow motion at 1:04 of this youtube video:

3 ) ? (I'm working on it.)

4 ) Don Cook film for Dallas TV station?

More importantly, I've just now found this great enhanced Wiegman clip, posted by Sean Murphy on another thread, which shows Reid's head in the middle of the frame between two other women, and Truly (!) and Campbell (?) on the far right. Campbell (?) looks tall and possibly jacket-less. Truly is visible behind Campbell and a little to our left of him. He is much shorter than Campbell and is wearing his fedora and dark suit. Reid, Truly, and Campbell are standing in the line of people behind the car.

Judging by Wiegman's camera movements in his complete film, the frames in this GIF seem to have been filmed about four seconds before the first or second shot rang out.

--Tommy

Edited July 29, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

Fascinating is the fact that in her 1964 WC testimony, Jeraldean Reid (AKA Mrs. Robert A. Reid) said she was standing near Ochus Campbell and Roy Truly some distance directly in front of the front steps during the assassination and that Campbell told her that the shots had come from the Grassy Knoll area.

EDIT: I just read her 11/23/63 affidavit (see below). In it she says she was standing near Campbell but that someone else said the shots had come from the Grassy Knoll area. This is different from what she testified later to the Warren Commission.

Jeraldean Reid appears in a few photographs and films:

The frame with the vertical red arrow is from the Dave Wiegman film. In the youtube video below, that frame is easiest to see in slow motion at 1:04. I figure this frame (with the vertical red arrow) was shot about four seconds before the first shot rang out.

For spatial-positions-of-the-witnesses reasons, please compare that frame with the frames viewable at 0.45 in the following version of the Wiegman film--

I believe the two suit-wearing men barely visible on the far right at 0:45 in the video (above the Chevy's right tail fin), just a few people away from where Jeraldean Reid was standing (she is hidden behind another woman at 0:45) could be Roy Truly and Ochus Campbell.

FWIW, she said that about two minutes after the assassination she encountered, shortly after she entered her large second-floor office area, a t-shirt wearing Oswald passing through in the general direction of the front elevator / front stairs with a full bottle of Coke.

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/reid.htm

Her first name was not Jeraldine or Geraldine. It was Jeraldean. Her maiden name was Bray. She was born on August 24, 1912, so she was fifty-one years old on 11/22/63.

--Tommy

PS The photo of her sitting with Homicide Detective Jim Leavelle was taken on 11/23/63 according to Leavelle's April 7, 1964, WC testimony, ergo her different clothing.

Mr. BALL. You went to work at what time Saturday morning, November 23, 1963?

Mr. LEAVELLE. It would be around 8 o'clock, I imagine.

Mr. BALL. And did you take some statements that day?

Mr. LEAVELLE. Chances are I may have, I do not remember.

Mr. BALL. Here is----

Mr. LEAVELLE. It says took one affidavit from R. S. Truly, supervisor of Texas School Book and the other of employee, Mrs. R. A. Reid.

Mr. BALL. You are refreshing your memory from a report that you made, is that correct?

Mr. LEAVELLE. Yes.

Here is Reid's 11/23/63 affidavit from the Dallas Municipal Archives:

51. Affidavit In Any Fact typed, by Mrs. R. A. Reid. Statement as an employee of the Texas School Book Depository. States she saw Oswald leave the back office near the lunch room after the shooting, 11/23/63. 00001327 1 page 05 02 051 http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/13/1327-001.gif

I would appreciate some constructive feedback / observations.

Thanks,

--Tommy

PS

Note that in her affidavit, Jeraldean Reid / Mrs. Robert A. Reid mentions standing near Campbell, and in her WC testimony she says she stood near both Campbell and Truly.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Chris Davidson]

Thomas,

Here's a static version for you.

chris

[Thomas Graves]

Thomas,

Here's a static version for you.

chris

Yes, Chris. IMHO your red arrow on the right is pointing at Truly.

I think it's a little easier to recognize his facial features, hat, and short stature in the enhanced GIF I posted, especially when looking at the GIF before it starts running.

But now your red arrow on the right in the previous post lets everybody know the guy I'm talking about.

What's significant is that the tall guy next to him could be Ochus Campbell (is he wearing a white shirt and a tie, but no jacket? -- the potential O.V. Campbell whom new member Linda recently pointed out in the Martin and Hughes clips also appears to be wearing a white shirt but no jacket), and that a woman who resembles the woman Det. Jim Leavelle was talking with the next day in the Homicide and Robbery Bureau -- fifty-one year old Mrs. Robert A. Reid? -- can be seen about six feet away from them in the GIF.

Thanks!

--Tommy

Edited July 29, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

For Bob Prudhomme:

It now appears that Truly was not standing on the "island" during the assassination, but rather pretty close to where we see him standing in Darnell / Couch when Baker ran past him.

--Tommy

Edited July 30, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Linda Giovanna Zambanini]

Tommy,

That anim. Wiegman gif of Sean's is a great find! The "Truly" character tends to be hidden by the taller "Campbell", so I had never spotted those 2 over on the far rt. side before. I'm not so sure about the tall guy in the white shirt being Campbell since he doesn't have on black horn rimmed glasses - whereas the other "Campbell" in the grouping on the far left of Wiegman does when I blow him up. He also has on a white or light sand colored shirt or suit jacket like we see in the Martin gif I posted that Denis Morrisette had originally posted. But, I think Denis was just presuming that those two were Truly and Campbell - so the real Campbell may not actually have worn black horn-rimmed glasses. I sure wish we could find a good photo of Campbell. As it stands, I think at this point we may have 2 candidates the Truly, Campbell, Reid trio, unfortunately. Is there a reason to rule one or the other out at this point? Here's the Martin anim. gif again with "Campbell" in the bottom rt hand corner: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/uploads/post-2389-0-05468800-1362461838.gif

Thanks for this thread Tommy,

Could be, but isn't Truly farther back near the building, on the sidewalk, as Baker runs by him as seen in the Darnell/Wiegman clips?
If so can you demonstrate Trulys movement between said position next to "OV" and where he is when Baker runs past.
Or a closer comparrison of know Truly images and the Suited man.

That could be her face sticking out Tommy.

How was it shown the lady in Homicide office is Jeraldean Bray Reid (Mrs. Robert A. Reid)?
I thought last word was woman in the office due to dress, age, purse, gloves, coat, and other accoutrements did not match and thus was not her.
What provenance do we have for the picture so far Tommy? Who took it and when?

Saturday 23rd report:
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/09/0958-002.gifJA REID AFFIDAVIT MENTIONED


http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/15/1529-001.gif OV Campbell


Plus Jim Leavelle can stick this report below in his butt as he does not know what it takes to be pre-med and take 18-21 credit hours a semester when everyone else is taking 12, plus working part time!! Jim Leavelle shows his ignorance. And if anyone was to be chatted up by Ruby it would be someone whom is a higher class person looking to become a doctor. And if said student was looking to open a lounge even more reason for a conversation with Ruby.
The person introduced may likely be Crafard.
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/15/1576-001.gif

Ed,

Thanks for the feedback and the questions.

You ask if Truly "isn't farther back near the building, on the sidewalk, as Baker runs past him as seen in Darnell / Wiegman."

Baker is seen running past Truly in Darnell / Couch, but not in Weigman. Weigman was already running down Elm Street (with his movie camera running) when Darnell and Couch "caught" Baker running past Truly.

Darnell / Couch:

Credit: Gerda Dunckel. Click on image to enlarge a bit.

As regards Jeraldean Reid, all i know is that she was 51 years of age at the time of the assassination, that she gave an affidavit to Det. Jim Leavelle on 11/23/63, and that she claimed in her WC testimony to have been standing in the street (or on the curb) near Campbell and Truly during the assassination.

Jim Leavelle is on record as having taken Reid's affidavit on 11/23/63.

In the photo of the woman sitting with Leavelle in the Homicide and Robbery Bureau, Leavelle appears to be writing a report of some sort and the woman looks like she could be in her early fifties, so I think it's reasonable to assume that the woman is Jearaldean Reid and the report that Leavelle is writing is Reid's affidavit.

The four photos / frames with red arrows are, clockwise from upper right:

1 ) A Darnell / Couch frame.

2 ) A Dave Wiegman frame, best viewed in slow motion at 1:04 of this youtube video:

3 ) ? (I'm working on it.)

4 ) Don Cook film for Dallas TV station?

More importantly, I've just now found this great enhanced Wiegman clip, posted by Sean Murphy on another thread, which shows Reid's head in the middle of the frame between two other women, and Truly (!) and Campbell (?) on the far right. Campbell (?) looks tall and possibly jacket-less. Truly is visible behind Campbell and a little to our left of him. He is much shorter than Campbell and is wearing his fedora and dark suit. Reid, Truly, and Campbell are standing in the line of people behind the car.

Judging by Wiegman's camera movements in his complete film, the frames in this GIF seem to have been filmed about four seconds before the first or second shot rang out.

--Tommy

[Thomas Graves]

Tommy,

That anim. Wiegman gif of Sean's is a great find! The "Truly" character tends to be hidden by the taller "Campbell", so I had never spotted those 2 over on the far rt. side before. I'm not so sure about the tall guy in the white shirt being Campbell since he doesn't have on black horn rimmed glasses - whereas the other "Campbell" in the grouping on the far left of Wiegman does when I blow him up. He also has on a white or light sand colored shirt or suit jacket like we see in the Martin gif I posted that Denis Morrisette had originally posted. But, I think Denis was just presuming that those two were Truly and Campbell - so the real Campbell may not actually have worn black horn-rimmed glasses. I sure wish we could find a good photo of Campbell. As it stands, I think at this point we may have 2 candidates the Truly, Campbell, Reid trio, unfortunately. Is there a reason to rule one or the other out at this point? Here's the Martin anim. gif again with "Campbell" in the bottom rt hand corner: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/uploads/post-2389-0-05468800-1362461838.gif

Thanks for this thread Tommy,

Could be, but isn't Truly farther back near the building, on the sidewalk, as Baker runs by him as seen in the Darnell/Wiegman clips?

If so can you demonstrate Trulys movement between said position next to "OV" and where he is when Baker runs past.

Or a closer comparrison of know Truly images and the Suited man.

That could be her face sticking out Tommy.

How was it shown the lady in Homicide office is Jeraldean Bray Reid (Mrs. Robert A. Reid)?

I thought last word was woman in the office due to dress, age, purse, gloves, coat, and other accoutrements did not match and thus was not her.

What provenance do we have for the picture so far Tommy? Who took it and when?

Saturday 23rd report:

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/09/0958-002.gifJA REID AFFIDAVIT MENTIONED

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/15/1529-001.gif OV Campbell

Plus Jim Leavelle can stick this report below in his butt as he does not know what it takes to be pre-med and take 18-21 credit hours a semester when everyone else is taking 12, plus working part time!! Jim Leavelle shows his ignorance. And if anyone was to be chatted up by Ruby it would be someone whom is a higher class person looking to become a doctor. And if said student was looking to open a lounge even more reason for a conversation with Ruby.

The person introduced may likely be Crafard.

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/15/1576-001.gif

Ed,

Thanks for the feedback and the questions.

You ask if Truly "isn't farther back near the building, on the sidewalk, as Baker runs past him as seen in Darnell / Wiegman."

Baker is seen running past Truly in Darnell / Couch, but not in Weigman. Weigman was already running down Elm Street (with his movie camera running) when Darnell and Couch "caught" Baker running past Truly.

Darnell / Couch:

Credit: Gerda Dunckel. Click on image to enlarge a bit.

As regards Jeraldean Reid, all i know is that she was 51 years of age at the time of the assassination, that she gave an affidavit to Det. Jim Leavelle on 11/23/63, and that she claimed in her WC testimony to have been standing in the street (or on the curb) near Campbell and Truly during the assassination.

Jim Leavelle is on record as having taken Reid's affidavit on 11/23/63.

In the photo of the woman sitting with Leavelle in the Homicide and Robbery Bureau, Leavelle appears to be writing a report of some sort and the woman looks like she could be in her early fifties, so I think it's reasonable to assume that the woman is Jearaldean Reid and the report that Leavelle is writing is Reid's affidavit.

The four photos / frames with red arrows are, clockwise from upper right:

1 ) A Darnell / Couch frame.

2 ) A Dave Wiegman frame, best viewed in slow motion at 1:04 of this youtube video:

3 ) ? (I'm working on it.)

4 ) Don Cook film for Dallas TV station?

More importantly, I've just now found this great enhanced Wiegman clip, posted by Sean Murphy on another thread, which shows Reid's head in the middle of the frame between two other women, and Truly (!) and Campbell (?) on the far right. Campbell (?) looks tall and possibly jacket-less. Truly is visible behind Campbell and a little to our left of him. He is much shorter than Campbell and is wearing his fedora and dark suit. Reid, Truly, and Campbell are standing in the line of people behind the car.

Judging by Wiegman's camera movements in his complete film, the frames in this GIF seem to have been filmed about four seconds before the first or second shot rang out.

--Tommy

Thanks Linda.

"Truly #1" in Wiegman (standing with his arms crossed on the edge of the "island") has a white handkerchief in his breast pocket and is wearing a hat that is lighter in color than its headband. Roy SansomTruly (the short guy in the below GIF) had no handkerchief in his breast pocket that day and his hat seems to be just as dark as its hatband.

"Truly #2" in Wiegman ("my" Truly) is standing about where he said he was standing https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=39#relPageId=227&tab=page and he's standing only about six feet away from a woman who strongly resembles fifty-one year old Jeraldean Reid / Mrs. Robert A. Reid (who said she was standing near him during the assassination, and whom, conversely, Truly said was standing near him.)

--Tommy

Edited July 31, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Clive Largey]

Clive

"Mr. TRULY. I heard an explosion, which I thought was a toy cannon or a loud firecracker from west of the building. Nothing happened at this first explosion. Everything was frozen. And immediately after two more explosions, which I realized that I thought was a gun, a rifle of some kind.

The President's--I saw the President's car swerve to the left and stop somewheres down in this area. It is misleading here. And that is the last I saw of his ear, because this crowd, when the third shot rang out--there was a large crowd all along this abutment here, this little wall, and there was some around us in front--they began screaming and falling to the ground. And the people in front of myself and Mr. Campbell surged back, either in terror or panic. They must have seen this thing. I became separated from Mr. Campbell. They just practically bore me back to the first step on the entrance of our building.

Mr. BELIN. When you saw the President's car seem to stop, how long did it appear to stop?

Mr. TRULY. It would be hard to say over a second or two or something like that. I didn't see I just saw it stop. I don't know. I didn't see it start up.

Mr. BELIN. Then you stopped looking at it, or you were distracted by something else?

Mr. TRULY. Yes. The crowd in front of me kind of congealed around me and bore me back through weight of numbers, and I lost sight of it.

I think there were a lot of people trying to get out of the way of something. They didn't know what."

Does Truly appear to be confused about whether or not he heard rifle shots?

Is there any photographic or film evidence to support his statement that a large crowd congealed around him and bore him back to the steps?

Truly's testimony is more than unreliable, it sounds fabricated.

Fabricated to give him a reason for moving away from the street shortly after witnessing an unmistakable assassination attempt, without that explanation one might think he may have acted as if nothing unusual had happened and that's not acceptable.

The surging crowd trying to escape something is of course only in his head as is Baker's idea that he went directly to the entrance, that's what those two film clips tell us and with Wiegman of course we see hardly anyone up this end was even looking at the limo between the second and third shots. He probably learnt the limo slowed and pulled to the side from someone else. He heard firecrackers perhaps but ignored them and walked back to the entrance.

Thomas has highlighted Reid and we see now the exact same thing.

She was not focusing on the limo during the shooting and so turned around and went back to work like nothing happened.

Isn't that the only reason to pick this folks out from the crowd?

To match what they said with what we see.

[Clive Largey]

"Truly #2" in Wiegman ("my" Truly) is standing about where he said he was standing https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=39#relPageId=227&tab=page and he's standing only about six feet away from a woman who strongly resembles fifty-one year old Jeraldean Reid / Mrs. Robert A. Reid (who said she was standing near him during the assassination, and whom, conversely, Truly said was standing near him.)

--Tommy

I think that's the number one suspect for Truly now Thomas, the hat appears to have a short brim too, good job.

[Linda Giovanna Zambanini]

Hi Tommy! You're welcome!

You are SO RIGHT! I glossed over that part of your post in which you noted that Reid had said they were standing right in front of the steps. So there's that. And then there's your GREAT find on the handkerchief in the breast pocket! Ok, so i now agree with you entirely that this eliminates the trio on the left in Wiegman! It must be the trio on the right! And btw, i went through all of the statements of Truly, Campbell and Reid. In all of Reid's statements - her DPD affidavit, 2 FBI statements and her WC testimony - she states she was directly in front of the TSBD and in most of them she also mentions she's with Truly and Campbell.

Ok, now, let me put forth a new idea that just came to me.
In Darnell it appears we most see everyone rushing over to the island area to get a better view of what had happened down Elm. In fact, we also see "Truly" to the left of the steps turned and looking in that direction before Baker rushes up and passes him, then he rotates back toward the steps. We also see Reid, with her wide, black purse, looking and walking in that direction - split up from Truly. So, what happened to O.V. Campbell after the shots? This is what i would like to address... I've thought about this anew and would like to put forth a new proposal.

In Darnell, there is also a very hefty, very tall man who was initially (prior to the frame below) seen headed in that same direction. In the past i've seen some people refer to him as Dougherty - yes, he's big but i've always disagreed with him being Dougherty due to Dougherty's testimony that he was in the TSBD and no one else said he was out front. Note that this big guy has on a lighter top that appears to be a waist length jacket of some kind (not a suit coat), and darker pants. In this still he's captured with his back to us after he turned and began walking toward the steps. He's in the area between Reid (with her wide, black purse) to his right, and Truly (and Baker) to his left:

I have a very clear version of the Darnell video, frame by frame, i downloaded in a zip file so i can click backward or forward and look at and blow up and study each frame. For a few early frames he is turned sideways, before he turns and walks toward the steps, in those frames i can see he does not have on glasses on.

Now, look at Campbell in the Wiegman trio. He's also huge, has on what could be the same style of waist length jacket which is lighter than his pants. Just like the big guy in Darnell. Now the jacket of the guy in Darnell appears darker than that of the guy in Wiegman but could it just be the lighting? It would make sense to find Campbell in this general area right after the shots, near but separated from, Truly and Reid. (Also if this man is Campbell then, the "Campbell" with black horn rimmed glasses in Denis Morrisette's anim. Martin gif, obviously cannot be Campbell after-all).

If I stop the animated Wiegman gif you posted, Tommy (by hitting the ESC key in IE - it doesn't work, btw, in Google Chrome) when Campbell is turned more toward us so his body is all the way back against the edge of the frame, we can see the front area of his pants better and they are much lighter shade than the big guy's pants in Darnell. I posit, it's the same big guy, but the lighting in Wiegman is bleaching out BOTH his pants AND his shirt - thus giving his pants a grey look and his shirt a white look due to the sunlight striking them. Does that make sense? The big guy in Darnell is Campbell - but both his jacket and pants appear darker than they do in Wiegman because of the lighting.

So, if this big guy in Darnell, who turns to walk toward the TSBD, is indeed O.V. Campbell, it would fit in with Campbell's ORIGINAL story about where he went after the shots. However, N.B., his "story" changed rapidly after the 11/23/63 NY Herald Tribune story came out directly quoting Campbell that when he (he actually said "we") went in the TSBD after the shots, he ("we") saw LHO in the 1st floor storage closet in the lobby area! But, soon he was all over the map about where he went afterward and what he personally saw!

This changing account by Campbell is best summed up in the first post in this Googlegroups thread by Donald Willis, "Will the Real O.V. Campbell Please Stand up?" I quote it here in its entirety because it is so important, and i've seen far too many links, and thus their important content, evaporate over time. My emphasis and i also inserted paragraph breaks for easier reading comprehension.:

<quote on>

Texas School Book Depository VP Ochus V. Campbell was all over the
place, literally, in his statements after the assassination. Perhaps
because he knew and said too much to the NY Herald Tribune:
"Shortly after the shooting we raced back into the building. We saw
Oswald in a small storage room on the ground floor." (11/23/63)

Had he stuck to his guns, figuratively, he would have helped absolve
Oswald of any shooting that day--and relegated him to a minor role. a
mere Rosencrantz, simple Distractor of Cops, say, who gave the
shooters time to pack up their gear.

But lo & behold an alternate version of Campbell's actions appeared
the same day in the Dallas Mourning News:

"Campbell said he ran toward a grassy knoll west of the building where
he thought the sniper had hidden."

[My note: Unfortunately, Mr. Willis neglects to post the rest of this section of the 11/23/63 DMN article which then goes on to detail the Oswald encounter in the storage room - but not as a direct quote from Campbell. Rather, in an oddly contorted way it seems to indirectly quote him. This appears to be the first deliberate, wiggling attempt by Campbell to begin distancing himself from his initial NYHT direct quote:

"He said Truly and an officer ran into the building.

"In a storage room on the first floor, the officer, gun drawn, spotted Oswald. 'Does this man work here?' the officer reportedly asked Truly.

"Truly, who said he had interviewed and hired Oswald a 'couple of months earlier,' reportedly told the policeman that Oswald was a worker." ]

Notice it's not a direct quote here, though, hence carries less weight
than the NYHT version. But. well, if this version were true, then,
no, Campbell could not have been there with Truly & Baker to see
Oswald on the first floor.

But apparently the DMN version was not true. The testimony of others,
including Geneva Hine, may have led Campbell to change his tune again,
from "I'm a knoll cowhand" to "Back in the Building Again":

"He observed the car rush away from the scene. He then immediately
rushed into his building...."

Ah! back to square one? Not quite. The chorus has changed:

"[Campbell] added that he is not personally acquainted with [Oswald] &
has never seen him." (FBI interview of Campbell 11/24/63)

Backpedaling 1A, eh? Or, Two Ways of Discounting a First-Floor
Encounter with Oswald. One (DMN): Run fast, in the other direction.
Two (FBI): Run fast in the same direction, but say not just that you
did not see Oswald then & there, but that you *never* saw him. Never
say never....

Campbell, guilty with too many explanations.... Oswald, guilty of
being merely a first-floor pawn in the conspiracy....

<quote off>

Now let me draw your attention to Campbell's 11/24/63 FBI statement . In it, his account of his actions after the shots seems to match up exactly with that of the big, tall man we see in Darnell, whom i just pointed out as possibly being Campbell (my emphasis):

"...After hearing two more such reports, he realized that must have been rifle shots and since President Kennedy's car had advanced just out of his vision, he went forward a few feet to observe this automobile, inasmuch as he feared that the rifle shots were in connection with an attempt upon President Kennedy's life. He then observed the car bearing Pres. Kennedy to slow down, a near stop, and a motorcycle policeman rushed up. Immediately following this, he observed the car rush away from the scene. He then immediately rushed into his building without having seen anything unusual from any window of his building..."

In the next and final paragraph the FBI agent goes on show Campbell a photo of LHO and reports:

"Mr. Campbell...added that he is not personally acquainted with him and has never seen him..."

So, within a 24 hour period, we have Ochus V. Campbell on 11/23 directly quoted as saying he ("we") personally saw LHO in the 1st floor storage room, and then the very same day an odd, vaguely indirect quote saying Oswald was confronted in the 1st floor storage room by Baker and Truly, and finally, his FBI statement the following day, 11/24, in which Campbell tells the agent he had "never seen him" before.

By the time of Campbell's March 19, 1964 FBI Statement, his story about where he and Truly were standing had also changed. Why the change? In his original 11/24 FBI Statement he had said they "were together stationed about 30 feet in front of" the TSBD. By March '64 he said:

"Mr. Truly and I decided to view the motorcade and took up a position next to the curb of Elm Street adjacent to the street signal light."

(He also said that "Mrs. Jeraldean Reid" and two other female TSBD employees "were standing at my elbow and likewise witnessed the assassination," thus, reaffirming that Reid was with them.)

In that March FBI statement he also emphasizes:

"I definitely did not see Lee Harvey Oswald at the time..." and goes on to state:

"I have had occasion to view photographs of Lee Harvey Oswald and to the best of my recollection never saw him while he was employed by the Texas School Book Depository."

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

As for their location...Truly says in his WC testimony, they were in front of the TSBD -- he doesn't say they were by the stop light on the island.:

"I would judge out in Elm Street, 10 to 15 or 20 feet from the front steps" and "Almost straight out from it. It would not be well, it could be on a little angle.."

Truly also says there were people "around us in front" - so once again this corroborates the trio can't be the trio on the left - since there are people standing "around" them, but not in front of them.

As for Truly's account of being "practically bore back to the first step" by the crowd...I believe, though not captured on film, this indeed, well could have happened just as he stated. Between the time Wiegman captures the trio on the right and the line of people "around in front" of Truly, and the time Darnell captures the area, with that trio - and grouping around and in front of them -disbanded and separated, and Truly found up by the steps, I believe the described panic of the crowd could have occurred. Indeed, we do find Truly up by the steps, and the big guy whom i am asserting is Campbell, is indeed "separated" from him, as is Reid. I think Truly lied about a ton of things...but he's probably being truthful about this.

WC testimony replies:

Mr. TRULY. "And that is the last I saw of his car, because this crowd, when the third shot rang out--there was a large crowd all along this abutment here, this little wall, and there was some around us in front - they began screaming and falling to the ground. And the people in front of myself and Mr. Campbell surged back, either in terror or panic. They must have seen this thing. I became separated from Mr. Campbell. They just practically bore me back to the first step on the entrance of our building."

Mr. TRULY. Yes. The crowd in front of me kind of congealed around me and bore me back through weight of numbers, and I lost sight of it.

Mr TRULY....But as I came back here, and everybody. was screaming and hollering, just moments later-I saw a young motorcycle policeman run up to the building, up the steps to the entrance of our building. He ran right by me. And he was pushing people out of the way. He pushed a number of people out of the way before he got to me. I saw him coming through, I believe. As he ran up the stairway--I mean up the steps, I was almost to the steps, I ran up and caught up with him. I believe I caught up with him inside the lobby of the building, or possibly the front steps.

What do you think?

Addendum: One change...I suppose the waist length "jacket" my Campbell is wearing in Darnell (and Tommy's Campbell is wearing in Wiegman) could be a long sleeved shirt tucked in and sort of loose and flounced a bit around the waist to give the appearance of a hanging waist-length jacket. So, it could be a dress shirt he's wearing without his suit coat, and that would be more fitting for a managerial type.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Linda Giovanna Zambanini

[Linda Giovanna Zambanini]

Post deleted - "addendum" added to previous post.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Linda Giovanna Zambanini

[Linda Giovanna Zambanini]

Btw... regarding a photo of Campbell... I found this info about him on genealogy site:

• 1924 Graduated from Salem High School, Salem, Fulton Co., Ark.
• 1925-6-7 Draughon's Business College, Springfield, Missouri. Majored in Business & Accounting.

[NB: Draughon's is frequently mispelled "Draughn's" as I discovered in trying to track down this college. It had been mispelled on the genealogy site - i corrected it here. I found Draughon's is now closed, but records are kept at Vatterott College in Springfield, Missouri, for the Springfield Draughon's location only.]

• 1927-28 School Year, School Teacher near Mammoth Springs, Ark.

I tried to track down yearbooks online for these years for all these schools and they are not available to date. If anyone lives near Springfield, MO, Salem, AR or Mammoth Springs, AR could you please see if you could get ahold of yearbooks from those years at the schools in question or at a nearby public library, and find a photo of Campbell? Granted they would be photos of him as a young man (he was born in 1909) - but better than nothing.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Linda Giovanna Zambanini

[Thomas Graves]

Hi Tommy! You're welcome!

You are SO RIGHT! I glossed over that part of your post in which you noted that Reid had said they were standing right in front of the steps. So there's that. And then there's your GREAT find on the handkerchief in the breast pocket! Ok, so i now agree with you entirely that this eliminates the trio on the left in Wiegman! It must be the trio on the right! And btw, i went through all of the statements of Truly, Campbell and Reid. In all of Reid's statements - her DPD affidavit, 2 FBI statements and her WC testimony - she states she was directly in front of the TSBD and in most of them she also mentions she's with Truly and Campbell.

Ok, now, let me put forth a new idea that just came to me.

In Darnell it appears we most see everyone rushing over to the island area to get a better view of what had happened down Elm. In fact, we also see "Truly" to the left of the steps turned and looking in that direction before Baker rushes up and passes him, then he rotates back toward the steps. We also see Reid, with her wide, black purse, looking and walking in that direction - split up from Truly. So, what happened to O.V. Campbell after the shots? This is what i would like to address... I've thought about this anew and would like to put forth a new proposal.

In Darnell, there is also a very hefty, very tall man who was initially (prior to the frame below) seen headed in that same direction. In the past i've seen some people refer to him as Dougherty - yes, he's big but i've always disagreed with him being Dougherty due to Dougherty's testimony that he was in the TSBD and no one else said he was out front. Note that this big guy has on a lighter top that appears to be a waist length jacket of some kind (not a suit coat), and darker pants. In this still he's captured with his back to us after he turned and began walking toward the steps. He's in the area between Reid (with her wide, black purse) to his right, and Truly (and Baker) to his left:

I have a very clear version of the Darnell video, frame by frame, i downloaded in a zip file so i can click backward or forward and look at and blow up and study each frame. For a few early frames he is turned sideways, before he turns and walks toward the steps, in those frames i can see he does not have on glasses on.

Now, look at Campbell in the Wiegman trio. He's also huge, has on what could be the same style of waist length jacket which is lighter than his pants. Just like the big guy in Darnell. Now the jacket of the guy in Darnell appears darker than that of the guy in Wiegman but could it just be the lighting? It would make sense to find Campbell in this general area right after the shots, near but separated from, Truly and Reid. (Also if this man is Campbell then, the "Campbell" with black horn rimmed glasses in Denis Morrisette's anim. Martin gif, obviously cannot be Campbell after-all).

If I stop the animated Wiegman gif you posted, Tommy (by hitting the ESC key in IE - it doesn't work, btw, in Google Chrome) when Campbell is turned more toward us so his body is all the way back against the edge of the frame, we can see the front area of his pants better and they are much lighter shade than the big guy's pants in Darnell. I posit, it's the same big guy, but the lighting in Wiegman is bleaching out BOTH his pants AND his shirt - thus giving his pants a grey look and his shirt a white look due to the sunlight striking them. Does that make sense? The big guy in Darnell is Campbell - but both his jacket and pants appear darker than they do in Wiegman because of the lighting.

So, if this big guy in Darnell, who turns to walk toward the TSBD, is indeed O.V. Campbell, it would fit in with Campbell's ORIGINAL story about where he went after the shots. However, N.B., his "story" changed rapidly after the 11/23/63 NY Herald Tribune story came out directly quoting Campbell that when he (he actually said "we") went in the TSBD after the shots, he ("we") saw LHO in the 1st floor storage closet in the lobby area! But, soon he was all over the map about where he went afterward and what he personally saw!

This changing account by Campbell is best summed up in the first post in this Googlegroups thread by Donald Willis, "Will the Real O.V. Campbell Please Stand up?" I quote it here in its entirety because it is so important, and i've seen far too many links, and thus their important content, evaporate over time. My emphasis and i also inserted paragraph breaks for easier reading comprehension.:

<quote on>

Texas School Book Depository VP Ochus V. Campbell was all over the

place, literally, in his statements after the assassination. Perhaps

because he knew and said too much to the NY Herald Tribune:

"Shortly after the shooting we raced back into the building. We saw

Oswald in a small storage room on the ground floor." (11/23/63)

Had he stuck to his guns, figuratively, he would have helped absolve

Oswald of any shooting that day--and relegated him to a minor role. a

mere Rosencrantz, simple Distractor of Cops, say, who gave the

shooters time to pack up their gear.

But lo & behold an alternate version of Campbell's actions appeared

the same day in the Dallas Mourning News:

"Campbell said he ran toward a grassy knoll west of the building where

he thought the sniper had hidden."

[My note: Unfortunately, Mr. Willis neglects to post the rest of this section of the 11/23/63 DMN article which then goes on to detail the Oswald encounter in the storage room - but not as a direct quote from Campbell. Rather, in an oddly contorted way it seems to indirectly quote him. This appears to be the first deliberate, wiggling attempt by Campbell to begin distancing himself from his initial NYHT direct quote:

"He said Truly and an officer ran into the building.

"In a storage room on the first floor, the officer, gun drawn, spotted Oswald. 'Does this man work here?' the officer reportedly asked Truly.

"Truly, who said he had interviewed and hired Oswald a 'couple of months earlier,' reportedly told the policeman that Oswald was a worker." ]

Notice it's not a direct quote here, though, hence carries less weight

than the NYHT version. But. well, if this version were true, then,

no, Campbell could not have been there with Truly & Baker to see

Oswald on the first floor.

But apparently the DMN version was not true. The testimony of others,

including Geneva Hine, may have led Campbell to change his tune again,

from "I'm a knoll cowhand" to "Back in the Building Again":

"He observed the car rush away from the scene. He then immediately

rushed into his building...."

Ah! back to square one? Not quite. The chorus has changed:

"[Campbell] added that he is not personally acquainted with [Oswald] &

has never seen him." (FBI interview of Campbell 11/24/63)

Backpedaling 1A, eh? Or, Two Ways of Discounting a First-Floor

Encounter with Oswald. One (DMN): Run fast, in the other direction.

Two (FBI): Run fast in the same direction, but say not just that you

did not see Oswald then & there, but that you *never* saw him. Never

say never....

Campbell, guilty with too many explanations.... Oswald, guilty of

being merely a first-floor pawn in the conspiracy....

<quote off>

Now let me draw your attention to Campbell's 11/24/63 FBI statement . In it, his account of his actions after the shots seems to match up exactly with that of the big, tall man we see in Darnell, whom i just pointed out as possibly being Campbell (my emphasis):

"...After hearing two more such reports, he realized that must have been rifle shots and since President Kennedy's car had advanced just out of his vision, he went forward a few feet to observe this automobile, inasmuch as he feared that the rifle shots were in connection with an attempt upon President Kennedy's life. He then observed the car bearing Pres. Kennedy to slow down, a near stop, and a motorcycle policeman rushed up. Immediately following this, he observed the car rush away from the scene. He then immediately rushed into his building without having seen anything unusual from any window of his building..."

In the next and final paragraph the FBI agent goes on show Campbell a photo of LHO and reports:

"Mr. Campbell...added that he is not personally acquainted with him and has never seen him..."

So, within a 24 hour period, we have Ochus V. Campbell on 11/23 directly quoted as saying he ("we") personally saw LHO in the 1st floor storage room, and then the very same day an odd, vaguely indirect quote saying Oswald was confronted in the 1st floor storage room by Baker and Truly, and finally, his FBI statement the following day, 11/24, in which Campbell tells the agent he had "never seen him" before.

By the time of Campbell's March 19, 1964 FBI Statement, his story about where he and Truly were standing had also changed. Why the change? In his original 11/24 FBI Statement he had said they "were together stationed about 30 feet in front of" the TSBD. By March '64 he said:

"Mr. Truly and I decided to view the motorcade and took up a position next to the curb of Elm Street adjacent to the street signal light."

(He also said that "Mrs. Jeraldean Reid" and two other female TSBD employees "were standing at my elbow and likewise witnessed the assassination," thus, reaffirming that Reid was with them.)

In that March FBI statement he also emphasizes:

"I definitely did not see Lee Harvey Oswald at the time..." and goes on to state:

"I have had occasion to view photographs of Lee Harvey Oswald and to the best of my recollection never saw him while he was employed by the Texas School Book Depository."

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

As for their location...Truly says in his WC testimony, they were in front of the TSBD -- he doesn't say they were by the stop light on the island.:

"I would judge out in Elm Street, 10 to 15 or 20 feet from the front steps" and "Almost straight out from it. It would not be well, it could be on a little angle.."

Truly also says there were people "around us in front" - so once again this corroborates the trio can't be the trio on the left - since there are people standing "around" them, but not in front of them.

As for Truly's account of being "practically bore back to the first step" by the crowd...I believe, though not captured on film, this indeed, well could have happened just as he stated. Between the time Wiegman captures the trio on the right and the line of people "around in front" of Truly, and the time Darnell captures the area, with that trio - and grouping around and in front of them -disbanded and separated, and Truly found up by the steps, I believe the described panic of the crowd could have occurred. Indeed, we do find Truly up by the steps, and the big guy whom i am asserting is Campbell, is indeed "separated" from him, as is Reid. I think Truly lied about a ton of things...but he's probably being truthful about this.

WC testimony replies:

Mr. TRULY. "And that is the last I saw of his car, because this crowd, when the third shot rang out--there was a large crowd all along this abutment here, this little wall, and there was some around us in front - they began screaming and falling to the ground. And the people in front of myself and Mr. Campbell surged back, either in terror or panic. They must have seen this thing. I became separated from Mr. Campbell. They just practically bore me back to the first step on the entrance of our building."

Mr. TRULY. Yes. The crowd in front of me kind of congealed around me and bore me back through weight of numbers, and I lost sight of it.

Mr TRULY....But as I came back here, and everybody. was screaming and hollering, just moments later-I saw a young motorcycle policeman run up to the building, up the steps to the entrance of our building. He ran right by me. And he was pushing people out of the way. He pushed a number of people out of the way before he got to me. I saw him coming through, I believe. As he ran up the stairway--I mean up the steps, I was almost to the steps, I ran up and caught up with him. I believe I caught up with him inside the lobby of the building, or possibly the front steps.

What do you think?

Linda,

I think you might be onto "something big" in saying that the big guy near Truly in Darnell / Crouch and in Wiegman, too, is probably O.V. Campbell.

Thanks for reminding me that in Campbell's first statement, (to a newspaper, probably on 11/22/63 but not published until 11/23), he said that (instead of running down to the Grassy Knoll) he / "we" shortly after the shots went inside the TSBD, and found Oswald in a first floor storage room. I'm thinking that if the big guy was Campbell, then his actions in Wiegman suggest that he was telling the truth in his statement to the newspaper. It is interesting that the big guy is one of only two or three men who are walking towards the steps in Darnell. Another one, of course, is the Truly figure who starts walking towards them after Baker has run past him.

Whoever the big guy is, I think that he and Truly are communicating from a short distance in Darnell / Couch, which could explain why he walks towards Truly and then spins and starts walking towards the TSBD, almost as though Truly told him to get inside.

Credit Gerda Dunckel. Click to enlarge.

Now to play a little Devil's Advocate against myself: I don't understand why "my" Reid is not wearing a coat and a head scarf in Wiegman. Somewhere in her testimony she mentions getting them from her office before going downstairs to watch the motorcade, so why isn't she wearing them?

Also, I hope I'm correct in saying that "Truly # 1" has a white handkerchief in his breast pocket, and that we're not seeing one of his hands in its crossed-arms position, instead.

What do you think?

Keep up the good work, Linda, and thanks for the feedback!

--Tommy

Edited August 3, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

"Truly #2" in Wiegman ("my" Truly) is standing about where he said he was standing https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=39#relPageId=227&tab=page and he's standing only about six feet away from a woman who strongly resembles fifty-one year old Jeraldean Reid / Mrs. Robert A. Reid (who said she was standing near him during the assassination, and whom, conversely, Truly said was standing near him.)

--Tommy

I think that's the number one suspect for Truly now Thomas, the hat appears to have a short brim too, good job.

Thanks, Clive.

Your comment caused me to notice just now how "my" Truly either has his head tilted back in Wiegman or is wearing his hat pushed back on his head, like the real-deal Truly is in this GIF. Since he was quite short, it might have been his way of trying to appear a little taller, IMHO.

--Tommy

Edited July 31, 2015 by Thomas Graves