J. D. Tippit: Was he part of the conspiracy?

[Nic Martin]

Nic

What do you think about that Tippitt death scene, looks like a closely managed

group effort...I always had problems with the Tippitt murder, the number of

people (who didn't look like Odwald) being the chief difficulty.

shanet

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It looks really planned, doesn't it? I mean, it's so clean, and almost predictable. It reminds me of like, watching a Marilyn Manson performance. Designed to shock and think, "Oh, it's so terrible, that poor police officer." But when you step back, it looks extremely theatrical and staged to the last detail.

I think a police officer had to die, to staple in everyone's mind that this guy had this problem with authority, and why else would Tippit have to die unless Oswald was supposedly scared of being arrested? If you didn't want to draw suspicion on yourself, why shoot a police officer in broad daylight?

If Oswald did it alone, he managed to murder the President of the United States in a packed Plaza in broad daylight, with only a VAGUE description of him getting out, and people doubting his guilt forty years later. WHY, would someone THAT intelligent, shoot a police officer in broad daylight with tons of witnesses nearby, and no one that could be mistaken as another suspect.

[Tim Gratz]

Ron, I will post this later and it is only speculation but:

Ruby sent his friend Trafficante 24 photos of Dallas police cars.

With the help of the photos, Trafficante duplicated a Dallas police car with help of his friendly body shop.

The car was trucked from Tampa to Dallas.

It was that car that appeared in front of LHO's rooming house.

Speculation yes but what better way for a get-away?

Edited January 12, 2005 by Tim Gratz

[George Bollschweiler]

Let’s just pretend the following:

Officer Tippit was part of the assasination and his job was to get LHO out of town to the Red Bird Airport. For the cover of LHO he took a second uniform so it would look like two cops which was the normal case.

The plan was changed an LHO was given the signal by the police car that honked twice in front of his room. This change of course could have been the plan right from the beginning but was not told to everybody. The signal made LHO nervous so he took his weapon with him when going to the meeting point of plan B the Texas theater.

Tippit was waiting for Oswald but he did’nt show up, so Tippit rushed to the Top Ten Record Shop to make a phone call but could not reach anybody, so he went back to the streets desperatly looking for Oswald.

„Professor Bill Pulte has a possible explanation for Tippit’s erratic movements in the final minutes of his life. Hel explained that Tippit’s movements are consistent with the actions of a man frantically looking for someone.“

Tippit spotted a police car between 404 and 410 East Tenth Street. He pulls back and parks the car. After a short argument he got shoot and Oswalds ID is placed

at the murder scene. Now the have a reason to charge LHO with murder of a police

officer and he will be arrested. There might be a little chance that Oswald get shoot

during the attempt of arresting but there are further plans that bring up Ruby.

Oswald meanwhile a little late due to the traffic problems on his way home, rushes

to the Texas theater and forgets to buy a ticket. Because of the shooting in the

neighbourhood a man running is always suspicious so he’s reportet to the police.

So Tippit’s part was never more than beeing the victim of Oswald kind of the patsy of the patsy.

[Duke Lane]

Allow me to interject some thoughts here:

In his book, Who Killed Kennedy? (May, 1964) Thomas G. Buchanan suggests that J. D. Tippit was involved in the conspiracy to kill JFK ... there were several stories circulating in Europe at this time that Tippit was a member of the team that was involved in the plot against Kennedy.

... Buchanan rejects this theory. However, he does believe that Tippit was involved in the conspiracy. He puts forward the following points to support this view:

(1) The physical description of Oswald giving out by the Dallas Police was not accurate enough for Tippit to have recognized him. What is more, as Oswald had already returned home to change, the description of his clothing was no longer valid.

That is accurate enough in and of itself, but another question that should be asked (among others) is why anyone, even in 1963, would think that an assassin would be walking away from a murder scene!? In fact, wouldn't that actually be the last thing someone would think?

(2) Tippit was alone at the time that he apprehended Oswald. According to Buchanan: “Standing orders for police in Dallas, as in other cities, are that radio cars of the type Tippit was driving must have two policemen in them.”

This is broad speculation and not supported by fact. A review of the assignments of DPD shows that nearly ALL districts had patrols with only ONE officer assigned to (i) individual cars and, often, (ii) individual districts. Those districts that had two officers assigned showed them with separate call numbers, which translates to different radios and, therefore, different vehicles.

(3) Tippit was not in the sector of Dallas where he had been assigned the day before. He should “have been in downtown Dallas at the time he intercepted Oswald half way between Oswald’s room and Ruby’s”.

Hello? Tippit's regular "beat" was south and east of where he was killed. Why should he have been downtown? That was not ever his assigned district.

(4) Tippit violated police procedure by “failing to make use of the radio beside him to notify his fellow-officers that he was stopping to question a suspect in the Kennedy assassination”.

That once again assumes that he was stopping a "suspect." There is nothing to support that speculation since he did not radio in. It is only assumed because (i) it is assumed that the man he approached was Oswald, and (ii) that Oswald became a suspect well after the fact.

(5) According to one witness “Oswald smiled at Tippit when he saw him, ambled over to the scout car, and they had an amicable conversation for almost a minute. Tippit staying in the car and Oswald standing in the street beside his rolled-down car window.”

Leaving aside the fact that the car window was not rolled down, I don't find it difficult to imagine that the fellow Tippit pulled up beside smiled at him ... but not for any reason I've heard suggested by anyone else.

(6) Buchanan claimed that Eva Grant had told reporters that Ruby and Oswald “were like brothers”.

What do members think? Was Tippit involved in the conspiracy? If so, what was his role?

His role was "victim" and "diversion." Helluva way to be "involved" in a conspiracy, but then, everyone's got a part to play, eh? ;^)

[Duke Lane]

Here I go again ... (some parts left out for brevity). While I've yet to read Harry's latest book (having been cited as "one of Mary Farrell's people" in his Killing the Truth, Mary of course being a "CIA plant"), as per usual of late, it seems he raises more questions than answers them.

According to the Dallas Underground, by several reserchers.......

Tippit was most likely involved in the conspiracy and knew both Ruby and Oswald. Tippit was what is referred to, as a redneck and also a corrupt cop. Although Tippit was also a womanizer, I will leave out the possible repercussions to Tippit in this regards.

There were definitely two and possibly three officers named Tippit (or Tippet), including one on the vice squad (Special Services Bureau), which seems like was always one of Ruby's targets to get to know; that one frequented the Carousel and Vegas clubs. I have heard of Tippit being "corrupt," but have never heard any proof, or even allegations beyond that broad statement: corrupt, how? The "womanizing" could well be the key to how he managed to get himself shot, and at the least one should wonder if Steven Thompson could have had anything to do with it. (He didn't, but people should wonder this long before they should wonder other things.)

Earl Crater of the Pig and Whistle restaurant said that LHO, Ruby and Tippit had breakfast there on a number of occasions at 7:00 A.M. Crater said that LHO never had more then a cup of coffee.

It is believed that Tippit went home for lunch on the 22nd. Then, about 12:45, 15 minutes after JFK was shot, Tippit was parked at the south end of the Houston Street Viaduct, in North Oak Cliff, facing the cars coming off the viaduct....presumably watching for someone.

Several employees of the Good Luck Gas Station saw Tippit sitting there for several minutes. Then he was observed driving away from the gas station at a high rate of speed, at about 12:50 and headed south. Tippits radio call at 12:54 places him at E. 8th and Lancaster, a few blocks south of the service station.

I am wary of people who claim to have been a witness to things like this so long after the fact and without corroboration. The call at 12:54 does indeed place him at 8th and Lancaster, but where does the call just eight minutes prior to that one place him?

At no time that afternoon was Tippit in his assigned district and he was always in North Oak Cliff. That district was assigned to Officer William D. Mentzel.

The answer to my last question is that the call eight minutes before the 8th and Lancaster call places him ... in his assigned district! The next question is: does anybody know where Mentzel was? The answer to that one is: "in his assigned district having lunch." So if the regular officer for district 94 was in district 94, why was Tippit needed there?

Tippit had a close friend, Officer Billy Anglin, and both had adjoining patrol areas ... Anglin last saw Tippit on the morning he was killed, having had coffee at "The Old Drive-In" about 11:30-11:45. The Warren Commission never called any relative, associate or police officer who worked with Tippit to testify. Even the HSCA wondered why not!

Marie Tippit said that Anglin was JD's best friend. I have often had difficulties with the timeline presented here, that JD had coffee with Billy at a quarter to twelve, then went home to lunch at twelve (farther south still from his assigned district) for half an hour, then fifteen minutes later was already clearing a call several miles from home and blocks off of the highway.

What was Tippit doing in the section of North Oak Cliff where Ruby and Oswald both lived--not his assigned district--when most other police were concerned with the assassination and in Dealey Plaza? Oak Cliff was Tippits district, although three miles away and primarily the downtown police officers were called to Dealey Plaza. Dispatcher, Jim Bowles (later Sheriff) said that Tippit was in his assigned district. Although he didn't seem to be, he was apparently several miles from where he was supposed to be. He was ordered to move into "Central Oak Cliff" at 12:45 p.m.This order was not in the first transcript produce by the DPD and then suddenly appeared in a later transcript. This has caused many reserchers to speculate this order was later dubbed into the tape by the police friends of Tippit.

This could take a long time to go into, so I won't do it now, but realize that MOST of the districts surrounding downtown in all directions were EMPTY: the assigned officers responded to the "Signal 19" (shooting) at Dealey Plaza. "Central Oak Cliff" was the ONLY district singled out for "emergency" coverage while at the same time being one of the few that the regularly-assigned officer was actually IN the district and did NOT go downtown.

There was no reason for Tippit to be moved to that area, which was far from his assigned area. Yet it is believed he strayed over to that area many tiimes. Many witnesses say they saw Tippit in that area quite often, and in fact some thought he even lived in that area....particularly around the area where he was killed.

Quite so. While Virginia Davis denied it later (in Dale Myers' With Malice), she was not the only one on record as putting JD Tippit in that neighborhood fairly frequently. Go back to the question about womanizing.

Gotta run to a dentist appointment (some fun!). More later if there's a chance.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

In his book, Who Killed Kennedy? (May, 1964) Thomas G. Buchanan suggests that J. D. Tippit was involved in the conspiracy to kill JFK. Buchanan, who was living in France at the time (he had lost his job with the Washington Evening Star in 1948 because of his alleged membership of the American Communist Party). He claims that there were several stories circulating in Europe at this time that Tippit was a member of the team that was involved in the plot against Kennedy.

Buchanan refers to an article written by Serge Groussard in L’Aurore (a right-wing newspaper which had supported the O.A.S. during the Algerian War). Groussard claimed he had received information that Tippit had been employed to help a man escape from Dallas. He was not told what crime the man had done (or was about to do). When he realised that the man who he was supposed to help had killed JFK, he changed his mind and tried to arrest Oswald. When Oswald realized what was happening, he killed Tippit.

Buchanan rejects this theory. However, he does believe that Tippit was involved in the conspiracy. He puts forward the following points to support this view:

(1) The physical description of Oswald giving out by the Dallas Police was not accurate enough for Tippit to have recognized him. What is more, as Oswald had already returned home to change, the description of his clothing was no longer valid.

(2) Tippit was alone at the time that he apprehended Oswald. According to Buchanan: “Standing orders for police in Dallas, as in other cities, are that radio cars of the type Tippit was driving must have two policemen in them.”

(3) Tippit was not in the sector of Dallas where he had been assigned the day before. He should “have been in downtown Dallas at the time he intercepted Oswald half way between Oswald’s room and Ruby’s”.

(4) Tippit violated police procedure by “failing to make use of the radio beside him to notify his fellow-officers that he was stopping to question a suspect in the Kennedy assassination”.

(5) According to one witness “Oswald smiled at Tippit when he saw him, ambled over to the scout car, and they had an amicable conversation for almost a minute. Tippit staying in the car and Oswald standing in the street beside his rolled-down car window.”

(6) Buchanan claimed that Eva Grant had told reporters that Ruby and Oswald “were like brothers”.

What do members think? Was Tippit involved in the conspiracy? If so, what was his role?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

what was his role?

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Unwitting accomplice! (polite version)

Dimwit accomplice! (more factual)

The psych profile of Tippit was one in which it was basically stated that he was pretty well devoid of independent thought capability.

Does this sound like someone who could keep a covert assassination plan from getting out?

From all indications, it would appear that Tippit was actually looking/searching for LHO.

That LHO was ultimately captured in the Texas Theatre, and the fact that J. D. Tippit had previously worked there in an off-duty security capacity, is just a tad too much of a coincidence.

--------------------------

Mr. BREWER - He just looked funny to me. Well, in the first place, I had seen him some place before. I think he had been in my store before

---------------------------

And, provided that Johnny Calvin Brewer was correct, this was not LHO's first stroll along West Jefferson.

And in these regards, one must give serious consideration that J.D. Tippit was, in the words of Muhammed Ali, "rope-a-dope" who was involved with LHO, but actually did not even know what it was that he and/or LHO were actually involved with.

"Poor Dumb Cop" was reportedly the quote, was it not?

John, in the Buchanan thread I said I was an agnostic re whether Tippit was part of the conspiracy or not. I am much less so if Ruby knew Tippit well. (Of course, I understand Ruby knew, casually, many members of the Dallas police force.)

I suspect Ruby was involved in the conspiracy before the assassination. I suggest he may have used his contacts on the police force to obtain police uniforms for the conspirators.

Much of the "Ruby knew Tippit" confusion appears to comes from another officer by the name of Tippit of whom Ruby quite apparantly knew.

Fequently giving "birthday" type parties for members of the police force in order to keep his options open, Ruby reportedly gave such a party for an officer named Tippit when he was associated with the other nightclub.

CRS affects the recolletion of this, however it seems as if the other "Tippit" was a detective/plain clothes version.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

P.S. Nic, don't feel too bad about your Mom not allowing Right Wing Books in the house. When my daughter was a pre-teen, I told her that I didn't want any of those $#%@*& "Beatles" records in the house. Then sometime later, I changed and was even trying to play their music on my guitar....:-)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very interesting about the second police car, I'd heard of that before but never in detail.

My mom is one of those overly-religious Republicans that believes gays burn in hell and that George W Bush is the best President we've ever had. She didn't speak to my stepfather for a week after he voted for Perot instead of Bob Dole and we got Clinton for another four years. Considering her daughter is a pansexual Libertarian, you'd think she'd get over it, but nah.

Oh well, at least The Beatles still rock. I'm partial to George Harrison myself. ;D

One out of three is not that bad.

Unlikely that "gays" will burn in hell!

Unlikely that "Bush" will go down in history with the best!

But she was quite apparantly "dead-on" on Mr. Perot.

Tom

[Steve Thomas]

Duke,

There were definitely two and possibly three officers named Tippit (or Tippet), including one on the vice squad (Special Services Bureau), which seems like was always one of Ruby's targets to get to know; that one frequented the Carousel and Vegas clubs.

The Tippit you speak of knew Jack in his Silver Spur days. I don't believe he was ever in the Carousel.

Steve Thomas

[Duke Lane]

[W]hat was [Tippit's] role?

From all indications, it would appear that Tippit was actually looking/searching for LHO. That LHO was ultimately captured in the Texas Theatre, and the fact that J. D. Tippit had previously worked there in an off-duty security capacity, is just a tad too much of a coincidence.

Why would Tippit have been "searching" for LHO? The only two answers to that could be either (i) Tippit knew in advance that Oswald either was going to shoot JFK or that he'd be blamed for it, or (ii) he wasn't.

Why would any cop be "searching" for anyone connected to the events in Dealey Plaza along the sidestreets of quiet little Oak Cliff? Was it a rule that killers escaped only to the south and east? The patrol districts all around downtown, including west Oak Cliff, had nobody patrolling in them; the regular officers in all of those other districts had responded to the "Signal 19" downtown, and nobody was ordered into those districts "for any emergency that may come in." Escape routes to the north and west were ruled out for some reason?

If searching for a killer escaping along the "usual" southerly route, why would anyone expect him to be on foot? To make a fast getaway? Maybe another rule was that people who shoot guns (and Presidents!) can't drive ... which of course leads to the corrolary that police officers (who drove) couldn't shoot guns, which in turn leads to the obvious need for Jack Ruby to do the Oswald shooting. But wait! Jack had a car ....

Okay, nevermind. It was a good idea, tho', eh?

Mr. BREWER - He just looked funny to me. Well, in the first place, I had seen him some place before. I think he had been in my store before

And, provided that Johnny Calvin Brewer was correct, this was not LHO's first stroll along West Jefferson.

Another one of those assassination oddities. Imagine someone who lives in Oak Cliff - and had, in at least three different residences over a period of months - who didn't own or drive a car actually walking in the area! Ludicrous! Believe me when I tell you, it didn't happen in any other American city! (As a point of reference, in most other cities, killers escaped the scenes of their crimes only to the northeast!)

[Norman T. Field]

P.S. Nic, don't feel too bad about your Mom not allowing Right Wing Books in the house. When my daughter was a pre-teen, I told her that I didn't want any of those $#%@*& "Beatles" records in the house. Then sometime later, I changed and was even trying to play their music on my guitar....:-)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very interesting about the second police car, I'd heard of that before but never in detail.

My mom is one of those overly-religious Republicans that believes gays burn in hell and that George W Bush is the best President we've ever had. She didn't speak to my stepfather for a week after he voted for Perot instead of Bob Dole and we got Clinton for another four years. Considering her daughter is a pansexual Libertarian, you'd think she'd get over it, but nah.

Oh well, at least The Beatles still rock. I'm partial to George Harrison myself. ;D

Try Kitty Kelly's book on the Bushes, real interesting read. Do hide it from your mother.

[Shanet Clark]

George

This is a good scenario and explains alot.

The various witnesses place people other than Oswald and a police car, and a man

confirming the murder at the site of tippits death.

Tippetts murder was part of the frame.

It made Oswald "guilty" of the murder, if the evidence wasn't strong for Kennedy, the cumulative

evidence of both were more convincing.

WHy was Tippett killed?

He may have tried to prevent the murder of JFK, the escape of Lee Oswald, or both.

We really don't know where he was at 12.30 do we?

He was looking for someone (Oswald? Roscoe White?) and the spare uniform points to the whole

"two cops drive out to Redbird airfield and David Ferrie flies one of them to Mexico" scenario.

This is a great thread, thanks for reviving it.................

Let’s just pretend the following:

Officer Tippit was part of the assasination and his job was to get LHO out of town to the Red Bird Airport. For the cover of LHO he took a second uniform so it would look like two cops which was the normal case.

The plan was changed an LHO was given the signal by the police car that honked twice in front of his room. This change of course could have been the plan right from the beginning but was not told to everybody. The signal made LHO nervous so he took his weapon with him when going to the meeting point of plan B the Texas theater.

Tippit was waiting for Oswald but he did’nt show up, so Tippit rushed to the Top Ten Record Shop to make a phone call but could not reach anybody, so he went back to the streets desperatly looking for Oswald.

„Professor Bill Pulte has a possible explanation for Tippit’s erratic movements in the final minutes of his life. Hel explained that Tippit’s movements are consistent with the actions of a man frantically looking for someone.“

Tippit spotted a police car between 404 and 410 East Tenth Street. He pulls back and parks the car. After a short argument he got shoot and Oswalds ID is placed

at the murder scene. Now the have a reason to charge LHO with murder of a police

officer and he will be arrested. There might be a little chance that Oswald get shoot

during the attempt of arresting but there are further plans that bring up Ruby.

Oswald meanwhile a little late due to the traffic problems on his way home, rushes

to the Texas theater and forgets to buy a ticket. Because of the shooting in the

neighbourhood a man running is always suspicious so he’s reportet to the police.

So Tippit’s part was never more than beeing the victim of Oswald kind of the patsy of the patsy.

[Lee Forman]

Shanet! How's things?

From Car 10 where are you?

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/car10.htm

This information is provided by Greg Lowrey by way of Bill Pulte. James A. Andrews worked for American National Life Insurance whose offices were located across the street from Austin’s Barbecue. Greg Lowrey was interviewing Andrews to get recollections of Roscoe White who worked out of the same office as Andrews. During the interview Andrews told Greg “Since you are interested in the assassination, let me tell you something that happened” and told the following story. James A. Andrew’s was returning to work at his office in Oak Cliff a little after 1:00 P.M. on 11/22/63. He was driving west on West 10th Street (about eight or nine blocks from where Tippit was shot minutes later, see map). Suddenly a police car also traveling west on West 10th Street came up from behind Andrews’ car, passed him and cut in front of Andrews’s car forcing him to stop. The police car pulled in front of Andrews’ car at an angle heading into the curb in order to stop him. The officer then jumped out of the patrol car motioned to Andrews to remain stopped, ran back to Andrews’ car, and looked in the space between the front seat and the back seat. Without saying a word the policeman went back to the patrol car and then drove off quickly. Andrews was perplexed by this strange behavior and looked at the officer’s nameplate, which read “Tippit” (Tippit was wearing his nameplate on 11/22/63. This is documented in a list of personal effects removed from his body at the time of death. Source: Dallas Municipal Archives) Andrews remarked that Tippit seemed to be very upset and agitated and was acting wild.

We know by the statements Louis Cortinas at the Top Ten Record Shop that Tippit was last seen running a stop sign and traveling east on Sunset Ave. The location of Andrews’ encounter with Tippit is approximately 2 blocks northwest of the record shop. Did this event happen before or after Tippit was seen at the record shop? Given Andrews’ statement that this happened a little after 1:00 P.M. let us use the 1:03 P.M. missed call as a benchmark. Since the only documented time that Tippit was away from his car radio was when he went into the record shop, the probability is high that James A. Andrews’ encounter with J.D. Tippit happened just moments after Tippit was seen at the record shop. Tippit could have gone east on Sunset then gone north on Madison or Zangs then taken a left onto West 10th Street and this would have put Tippit traveling in the proper direction to have ‘cut off’ Andrews’ car that was also traveling west on West 10th Street.

Why did Tippit choose Andrews’ car to stop? Why didn’t he pull over Andrews’ car using conventional police procedure by using red lights and siren and stopping to the rear of Andrews’ car? Why did Tippit ‘cut off’ Andrews car the way he did? Why didn’t Tippit speak to Andrews or give him any explanation for what was going on? Why was Tippit so upset and acting the way he did? If these questions could be answered it would be very helpful in determining what was going on in the last minutes of Tippit’s life. Exactly where Tippit went and for how long after his sighting at the record shop and after his encounter with James A. Andrews are still unknown.

I couldn't find Drenas, Pulte, Lowrey or Andrews. Maybe I didn't try hard enough. If anyone knows how to find Pulte or Andrews, could you ask the following question?

Q: What make, model, color and year was the car being driven by Andrews? That answer may fill in some of the blanks.

For additional research?

Q: The Craig Hume report on Bud Culligan - he claims that the operation had use of 2 DPD cars. Was one of these seen by Earline Roberts? Could it have been one of the retired DPD squad cars?

Mrs. ROBERTS. No--I didn't pay that much attention--I just saw it wasn't the police car that I knew and had worked for so, I forgot about it. I seen it at the time, but I don't remember now what it was.

Mr. BALL. Did you report the number of the car to anyone?

Mrs. ROBERTS. I think I did---I'm not sure, because I--at that particular time I remembered it.

Mr. BALL. You remembered the number of the car ?

Mrs. ROBERTS. I think it was--106, it seems to me like it was 106, but I do know what theirs was--it was 170 and it wasn't their car.

Mr. BALL. It was not 170?

Mrs. ROBERTS. The people I worked for was 170.

Mr. BALL. Did you report that number to anyone, did you report this incident to anyone?

Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes, I told the FBI and the Secret Service both when they was out there.

Mr. BALL. And did you tell them the number of the car?

Mrs. ROBERTS. I'm not sure--I believe I did--I'm not sure. I think I did because there was so much happened then until my brains was in a whirl.

Mr. BALL. On the 29th of November, Special Agents Will Griffin and James Kennedy of the Federal Bureau of Investigation interviewed you and you told them that "after Oswald had entered his room about 1 p.m. on November 22, 1963, you looked out the front window and saw police car No. 207?

Mrs. ROBERTS. No. 107.

Mr. BALL. Is that the number?

Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes--I remembered it. I don't know where I got that 106---207. Anyway, I knew it wasn't 170.

Mr. BALL. And you say that there were two uniformed policemen in the car?

Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes, and it was in a black car. It wasn't an accident squad car at all.

Mr. BALL. Were there two uniformed policemen in the car?

Mrs. ROBERTS. Oh, yes.

Mr. BALL. And one of the officers sounded the born ?

Mrs. ROBERTS. Just kind of a "tit-tit"--twice.

http://www.manuscriptservice.com/DPQ/dpbooks.htm

For example, how many of us knew that, although Earlene Roberts was besieged by reporters soon after Oswald was apprehended, nearly a full week passed before she mentioned anything to anyone about a police car stopping by the house? I didn't know that. Yet the written record is unequivocal about it, and Myers' personal interviews with a number of newsmen and law enforcement officers who questioned Roberts at the time confirm that only later did the story about the police car arise.

Come to think of it, did anyone ever look into the two police officers, Burnley and Alexander, that Roberts reportedly knew, whom she said she initially thought must be paying her a visit [Car 170]? Surely someone MUST have. But no, Myers is the first. He tracked down Charles T. Burnley, the one and only "Burnley" on the police force in 1963, who told Myers he'd never so much as heard of Earlene Roberts or her story until being informed of it around 1991-92. Roberts did know a DPD officer named Floyd J. Alexander, Sr., though, the man she describes in her testimony as a former employer. Myers found Alexander and confirmed this. The only problem is that Alexander had resigned from the force in 1957, leading one to wonder why Mrs. Roberts would be expecting him to visit in a squad car in 1963.

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/jfkinfo/wcr6.htm

In an FBI interview she had stated that she looked out the front window and saw police car No. 207. Investigation has not produced any evidence that there was a police vehicle in the area of 1026 North Beckley at about 1 p.m. on November 22. Squad car 207 was at the Texas School Book Depository Building, as was car 106. Squad cars 170 and 107 were sold in April 1963 and their numbers were not reassigned until February 1964.

Q: Who bought the cars?

[Thomas Graves]

I think a police officer had to die, to staple in everyone's mind that this guy had this problem with authority, and why else would Tippit have to die unless Oswald was supposedly scared of being arrested? If you didn't want to draw suspicion on yourself, why shoot a police officer in broad daylight?

If Oswald did it alone, he managed to murder the President of the United States in a packed Plaza in broad daylight, with only a VAGUE description of him getting out, and people doubting his guilt forty years later. WHY, would someone THAT intelligent, shoot a police officer in broad daylight with tons of witnesses nearby, and no one that could be mistaken as another suspect.

Hi Nic,

You make some excellent points. I think, however, that whoever shot Tippit just might have done so out of self defense. I say this because a witnesses (the car salesman?) said that when they turned Tippit's body over, they found Tippit's gun out of its holster and under Tippit's body (which leads me to believe that Tippit was going to shoot the man/men who ended up "getting the jump" on Officer Tippit, instead).

FWIW, Thomas

[Lee Forman]

Hi Nic,

You make some excellent points. I think, however, that whoever shot Tippit just might have done so out of self defense. I say this because a witnesses (the car salesman?) said that when they turned Tippit's body over, they found Tippit's gun out of its holster and under Tippit's body (which leads me to believe that Tippit was going to shoot the man/men who ended up "getting the jump" on Officer Tippit, instead).

FWIW, Thomas

Thomas,

TF Bowley took the gun from under Tippit and put it on the hood of the car. Ted Calloway then took the gun [amazingly] and went after the shooter in a cab.

Here's part of Bowley's account.

- lee

[Thomas Graves]

Thomas,

TF Bowley took the gun from under Tippit and put it on the hood of the car. Ted Calloway then took the gun [amazingly] and went after the shooter in a cab.

Here's part of Bowley's account.

- lee

Hi Lee,

Thanks for posting that part of Bowley's account. Not that it particularly matters, but he says that someone (evidently not Bowley himself) "picked up the pistol and put it on the hood of the squad car."

Given what we know about Tippit before 11/22/63, the context of the situation right before Tippit is killed (the president has just been assassinated, Tippit is looking frantically for someone, etc), it seems to me that the fact that Tippit's gun was found out of its holster, tends to suggest that whoever killed Tippit did so in self defense.

Actually, I just remembered something which totally destroys this theory, and just to show just how "openminded" I am, I will play the role of Devil's Advocate here: Didn't one of the witnesses testify that he/she had seen (the/one of the) killer(s) start walking away from the scene and then actually walk back to Tippit's body and administer a "coup de grace" pistol shot to Tippit's head? If so, this would argue against the killer(s) having shot Tippit out of self defense in the first place..... ???!

FWIW, Thomas

Edited February 29, 2008 by Thomas Graves