Why Oswald is Innocent

[William O'Neil]

The proof of Oswald's innocence in the downtown shooting is this:

Junior Jarman and Hank Norman did not begin their walk to the fifth floor until they'd heard - either over a police radio or through the buzz of the crowd after someone else had heard it - that the motorcade was on Main Street. This was mentioned on Channel 2 two times, once at 12:22 and again at either 12:26 or 12:27, but the earliest time 12:22.

They walked from the front of the building, up Houston Street and entered the building, first noting that the passenger elevator was not in its first-floor stop, then walking around to the freight elevator, which they rode up to, according to their testimony, the fifth floor. There was nobody else on that floor as they made their way to the front windows. This walk and elevator ride - the latter at one floor every six seconds, or 24 seconds total - could have taken as little as a minute and a half, possibly a little shorter or longer.

Bonnie Ray Williams had been on the sixth floor, claimed that he'd heard footsteps or something below him, and rode the passenger elevator - that he'd taken up during the lunch hour - down to the fifth floor, where he joined his compatriots at the front windows. Only Hank Norman equivocated about whether Bonnie Ray was there when he and Junior had gotten there or if he joined them later; the other two agreed he joined the two of them later.

Also on both the fifth and sixth floors, "getting stock," was "great big husky fellow" Jack Dougherty, whom none of the three claimed to have seen.

If Bonnie Ray ate his lunch where he said he did and where remnants were later found, there is no way anyone could have been in the southeast corner without being seen or heard by him: anyone who's stood at the end of the next set of windows from the "sniper's nest" exhibit on the sixth floor would agree.

If anyone planned on shooting at Kennedy, they'd have had to have been ready to do so no later than 12:25 when the motorcade was scheduled to arrive (five minutes before the 12:30 luncheon at the Trade Mart), and earlier in case the motorcade was ahead of schedule.

If Hank and Junior didn't start to go upstairs until after 12:22 and Bonnie Ray was upstairs until after the other two had arrived on the fifth floor, then Bonnie Ray was on the sixth floor even later than the latest he'd estimated (12:15), to within a minute or so before 12:25 or - if Hank and Junior didn't start up until after the 12:26/27 broadcast of the motorcade's being on Main Street, as late as 12:28 or even 12:29.

Either of those times being so, Bonnie Ray was on the sixth floor when whoever was setting up to shoot was there, and within 20 feet or less from him or them. That being so, if the shooter was Oswald, by the time Williams had much to say to anyone, Oswald was dead: what harm could there possibly be in identifying him as the shooter, eyewitnessed by someone who knew him?

When he heard what he thought was a "backfire," Jack Dougherty was standing "10 feet west of the west elevator," that is, right smack dab where the fleeing Oswald had to have run to get downstairs in time to meet Baker & Truly in the second floor lunch room. Dougherty remained there with the gate up until after Truly yelled up to "let that elevator loose" and began his ascent with Baker by stairs. If Oswald didn't run by - or even into - Jack Dougherty, then he didn't run down the stairs to the lunchroom.

There's more to the story, but this is sufficient to mark the main points: Williams didn't see Oswald and neither did Jack Dougherty, ergo Oswald wasn't there. If they saw anyone else, they didn't say ... and if they saw anyone other than Oswald, they may very well have had something to fear. But if Oswald had done what he supposedly did, then there'd have been no reason not to identify him.

Exactly! Also, if Oswald was indeed there assembling the snipers lair etc., he would have probably heard the elevator coming up.

This would have caused him to stop what he was doing, to ascertain just which floor it's occupants were getting off at. This would have delayed his preperations even further, and made his security very precarious at a crucial time.

-Bill

[William Kelly]

The proof of Oswald's innocence in the downtown shooting is this:

Junior Jarman and Hank Norman did not begin their walk to the fifth floor until they'd heard - either over a police radio or through the buzz of the crowd after someone else had heard it - that the motorcade was on Main Street. This was mentioned on Channel 2 two times, once at 12:22 and again at either 12:26 or 12:27, but the earliest time 12:22.

They walked from the front of the building, up Houston Street and entered the building, first noting that the passenger elevator was not in its first-floor stop, then walking around to the freight elevator, which they rode up to, according to their testimony, the fifth floor. There was nobody else on that floor as they made their way to the front windows. This walk and elevator ride - the latter at one floor every six seconds, or 24 seconds total - could have taken as little as a minute and a half, possibly a little shorter or longer.

Bonnie Ray Williams had been on the sixth floor, claimed that he'd heard footsteps or something below him, and rode the passenger elevator - that he'd taken up during the lunch hour - down to the fifth floor, where he joined his compatriots at the front windows. Only Hank Norman equivocated about whether Bonnie Ray was there when he and Junior had gotten there or if he joined them later; the other two agreed he joined the two of them later.

Also on both the fifth and sixth floors, "getting stock," was "great big husky fellow" Jack Dougherty, whom none of the three claimed to have seen.

If Bonnie Ray ate his lunch where he said he did and where remnants were later found, there is no way anyone could have been in the southeast corner without being seen or heard by him: anyone who's stood at the end of the next set of windows from the "sniper's nest" exhibit on the sixth floor would agree.

If anyone planned on shooting at Kennedy, they'd have had to have been ready to do so no later than 12:25 when the motorcade was scheduled to arrive (five minutes before the 12:30 luncheon at the Trade Mart), and earlier in case the motorcade was ahead of schedule.

If Hank and Junior didn't start to go upstairs until after 12:22 and Bonnie Ray was upstairs until after the other two had arrived on the fifth floor, then Bonnie Ray was on the sixth floor even later than the latest he'd estimated (12:15), to within a minute or so before 12:25 or - if Hank and Junior didn't start up until after the 12:26/27 broadcast of the motorcade's being on Main Street, as late as 12:28 or even 12:29.

Either of those times being so, Bonnie Ray was on the sixth floor when whoever was setting up to shoot was there, and within 20 feet or less from him or them. That being so, if the shooter was Oswald, by the time Williams had much to say to anyone, Oswald was dead: what harm could there possibly be in identifying him as the shooter, eyewitnessed by someone who knew him?

When he heard what he thought was a "backfire," Jack Dougherty was standing "10 feet west of the west elevator," that is, right smack dab where the fleeing Oswald had to have run to get downstairs in time to meet Baker & Truly in the second floor lunch room. Dougherty remained there with the gate up until after Truly yelled up to "let that elevator loose" and began his ascent with Baker by stairs. If Oswald didn't run by - or even into - Jack Dougherty, then he didn't run down the stairs to the lunchroom.

There's more to the story, but this is sufficient to mark the main points: Williams didn't see Oswald and neither did Jack Dougherty, ergo Oswald wasn't there. If they saw anyone else, they didn't say ... and if they saw anyone other than Oswald, they may very well have had something to fear. But if Oswald had done what he supposedly did, then there'd have been no reason not to identify him.

Exactly! Also, if Oswald was indeed there assembling the snipers lair etc., he would have probably heard the elevator coming up.

This would have caused him to stop what he was doing, to ascertain just which floor it's occupants were getting off at. This would have delayed his preperations even further, and made his security very precarious at a crucial time.

-Bill

Thank you Bill, I could never figure out how the sniper(s) knew when other people were coming and going, and hearing the elevator(s) in motion would certainly be a tip off, long enough to move somewhere unseen, unless they worked there, like the Patsy, and had an excuse to be there. Even then, hearing the elevator would tell them when someone was coming, as nobody would climb five or six floors unnecessarily. In fact, I recall that there was an inhouse warning out that the stairs were unsafe.

In any case, as the Secret Service recreation film clearly shows, the snipers nest was specifically constructed to obstruct the view of someone nealing or sitting on a box in that corner, as the fill in actor clearly shows. Standing and then sitting, he disapears.

The clear path along the windows also shows how someone could walk from one end of the room to the other in a matter of seconds, so the eyewitness report of someone being in the far west corner with a rifle wouldn't necessarily mean it was another person.

And the sound of the elevator would give ample warning that someone - even if it was someone like Bonnie Ray Williams (The Chicken Man), who could have been six feet away from the man in the sniper's nest and not see him.

BK

[Duke Lane]

Exactly! Also, if Oswald was indeed there assembling the snipers lair etc., he would have probably heard the elevator coming up. This would have caused him to stop what he was doing, to ascertain just which floor it's occupants were getting off at. This would have delayed his preperations even further, and made his security very precarious at a crucial time.

If anyone was there, they'd have been listing for that, one would imagine. But according to one of the floor-layers' testimonies - I'm thinking it was Billy Lovelady or maybe Hank Norman - you really didn't hear the elevators operating, but "if you were listening for the boss coming," you might, but not because of their operation, but because the boss normally rode the passenger elevator and you heard the "hand pedal" thump into place when it was stopped.

Whether you could hear that "thump" all the way diagonally across a 100'-by-100' floor filled with boxes, or whether you could only hear it when you were closer, near where they'd been laying floor that morning, wasn't addressed.

If my recreations and memory are correct, however, Williams was upstairs before anyone else was there. That doesn't matter, though: if someone was "constructing the sniper's nest" before he arrived, two things are certain: 1) when the "thump" was heard 150 feet away in the northwest corner, the person on the elevator was going to be off of it almost before you could react to it; and 2) someone would have to either a) come up with some convincing reason why they shouldn't be there so they'd go back down (in which case they're remember later that you were there ... but if you were the soon-to-be-dead Oswald, so what?), be able to stop doing what you were doing until they left, hiding successfully in the meanwhile, or c) have some way to constrain them from taking any sort of action against you - whether trying to subdue you or going down to let someone know what you were up to - until you could do what you'd been there to do.

Option c) would seemingly require either someone else to keep control of the interloper while you finished your work on the "nest," or else someone dumb enough to sit and watch you, eating their lunch, only a little curious about why you were setting up those boxes with your rifle nearby, and totally incurious of what you were going to do after you managed to get them to go downstairs without ever remembering seeing you there.. Of those two options, I'm going to rule the second one out.

Option only works if you're willing to remain hiding while your target leaves the area by in the event that the person who'd come up didn't leave in time, or that you could threaten him at gunpoint to go down and act as if you weren't there ... but again, once Oswald was dead, he was no longer a threat, so why not go ahead and eyewitness him as being there?

Option a) doesn't work at all unless you were willing to risk that the person wouldn't go back down, or that they would and would alert someone else to your presence now or later. Again, once Oswald was dead, why would Williams not have told everyone that he'd been upstairs instead of claiming he'd seen or heard nobody?

In fact, why would he have claimed to have seen nor heard nobody since he was there immediately prior to the shooting and well within sight and hearing range of the "nest" unless either a) nobody was there, or whoever was there wasn't dead?

The presumed fact that Williams ate his lunch sitting less than 20 feet away attests to one of three things: 1) that he was upstairs and eating before whoever had come up there to shoot JFK had arrived; 2) that he was indeed a mindless idiot who was fascinated by what you were doing in preparation for the shooting and obediently and placidly went downstairs when asked so he didn't have to "witness" anything; or 3) that, whether or not the lunch was his in the first place, someone else ate it, because if he'd come up after the "construction" started, he'd not have been allowed to eat while the preparations were underway. In fact, I'd say he'd have been to scared to.

If Bonnie Ray or anyone else had come up on the freight elevator, there would have been no thump and, thus, no warning. Cross that one off the list.

... as the Secret Service recreation film clearly shows, the snipers nest was specifically constructed to obstruct the view of someone nealing or sitting on a box in that corner, as the fill in actor clearly shows. Standing and then sitting, he disapears.

The clear path along the windows also shows how someone could walk from one end of the room to the other in a matter of seconds, so the eyewitness report of someone being in the far west corner with a rifle wouldn't necessarily mean it was another person. And the sound of the elevator would give ample warning that someone - even if it was someone like Bonnie Ray Williams (The Chicken Man), who could have been six feet away from the man in the sniper's nest and not see him.

More like 15-20 feet away. Whoever had been there prior to Williams' arrival would have had to have been done doing what he'd been doing to set up the "nest" also prior to Williams' arrival, and then have had to remain stock-still so as not to be heard, while hoping Williams would go somewhere else, like, now.

If that is so, then a couple of things: 1) whatever anyone claimed to have seen from the street level in any window must be a false sighting unless they'd seen Williams behind the closed second set of windows; and that because 2) they were finished setting up by 12:05 when Williams got there, and remained motionless for the next 20-plus minutes during Williams' lunch and until he left, just in time as it turned out, and three minutes late if the motorcade had been on time.

You think?

Are there any options I haven't considered?

[William Kelly]

I thought I'd bring this thread back to life now that they have taken down the Secret Service Reenactment film from YouTube.

BK

[William Kelly]

I thought I'd bring this thread back to life now that they have taken down the Secret Service Reenactment film from YouTube.

I'd like someone with a background in physics or geometry to look at the schematic drawings of the Second Floor Lunchroom vetibule door to determine if it is true, as Howard Roffman describes, that if Officer Marion Baker saw Oswald through the two by two inch square window of the door to the vestibule, then Oswald had to have entered the vestibule via the other door and arrived at the scene from the direction other than the steps to the sixth floor?

Thanks,

BK

[Peter McGuire]

Doesn't the weight of evidence strongly suggest that LHO took his rifle into work that morning, irrespective of whether he used it to shoot the President?

Someone will no doubt tell me, or speculate, that some (or dare I say all) of these points are incorrect.

1. Lee kept a rifle in the Paines garage.

2. Lee visited his wife at the Paines the previous evening, conflicting with his usual routine.

3. Lee never mentioned curtain rods to anyone but his ride into work the following morning.

4. Lee's rifle was discovered in the TSBD after the shooting.

5. Lee's rifle was missing from its usual location in the Paines garage after the shooting.

6. The discarded packaging was found in the TSBD.

7. The curtain rods were never found anywhere.

8. Lee didn't need curtain rods at his rented room in Oak Cliff.

9. Lee denied taking a package into the TSBD (conflicting with witness testimony).

I'd say that was pretty convincing support for "Lee Harvy Oswald took his rifle into the TSBD on the morning of 22 November 1963".

What evidence? Paines? The Warren Report? Good grief.

I'd say that there is no reason to believe that Oswald took his rifle into the TSBD on the morning of 22 November 1963.

[William Kelly]

Doesn't the weight of evidence strongly suggest that LHO took his rifle into work that morning, irrespective of whether he used it to shoot the President?

Someone will no doubt tell me, or speculate, that some (or dare I say all) of these points are incorrect.

1. Lee kept a rifle in the Paines garage.

2. Lee visited his wife at the Paines the previous evening, conflicting with his usual routine.

3. Lee never mentioned curtain rods to anyone but his ride into work the following morning.

4. Lee's rifle was discovered in the TSBD after the shooting.

5. Lee's rifle was missing from its usual location in the Paines garage after the shooting.

6. The discarded packaging was found in the TSBD.

7. The curtain rods were never found anywhere.

8. Lee didn't need curtain rods at his rented room in Oak Cliff.

9. Lee denied taking a package into the TSBD (conflicting with witness testimony).

I'd say that was pretty convincing support for "Lee Harvy Oswald took his rifle into the TSBD on the morning of 22 November 1963".

What evidence? Paines? The Warren Report? Good grief.

I'd say that there is no reason to believe that Oswald took his rifle into the TSBD on the morning of 22 November 1963.

Peter, and Paul,

While the rifle, certainly an important and incriminating piece of evidence, it seems to implicate Oswald in a crime he was incapable of committing if he was on the first or second floor at the time.

I would like to focus attention strictly upon the 2" x 2" square window on the door to the vestibule of the second floor lunchroom of the TSBD.

There are two doors to the vestibule, one facing the south, the other west.

From the bottom of the steps to the sixth floor, Officer Marion Baker said he saw the head of a man through that window in the door, a man he later positively identified as Lee Harvey Oswald.

If the scientific line of sight geometrics as outlined by Howard Roffman are correct, and the automatic door had to be shut in order for Baker to observe him, Oswald must have entered the vestibule from the south side door, and thus did not decend from the sixth floor.

The ownership of the rifle found at the scene certainly implicates Oswald in the crime, but if Baker's testimony is true, then Oswald is innocent of being the sixth floor sniper.

BK

[Peter McGuire]

I understand what you are saying, Bill. In other words, that aspect of the framing process - - links to the rifle, was fairly good. ( A mauser was found, however) In my opinion, documents were manufactured and there is no reason to believe the official scenerio.

That being said, as you say, the matter is moot since Oswald was not in position to fire from the sixth floor.

I do not believe any denial offered by the government regarding their involvment in this matter. The law has long followed the rule that if a person lies to you on one point, you may thereafter reject all of his testimony.

*"The proof that Oswald was not there is the fact that none of the four men upstairs who were on the fifth and/or sixth floors said that they had seen him there, which they absolutely must have if he was there. Bonnie Ray Williams was on the sixth floor to within three minutes of the shooting, in a position where he would have seen - and probably did see - whoever was in the "sniper's nest" area. Jack Dougherty was standing "ten feet west of the west elevator" - that is, directly in the path of the fleeing assassin (which scenario was only necessary if Oswald was the shooter having to hurry downstairs to meet Baker & Truly in the second floor lunchroom within 90 seconds) - and was not run over by Oswald as he had to have been."

*From Duke Lane and "Inside the Target Car"

Edited March 23, 2009 by Peter McGuire

[Duke Lane]

... The proof that Oswald was not there is the fact that none of the four men upstairs who were on the fifth and/or sixth floors said that they had seen him there, which they absolutely must have if he was there. Bonnie Ray Williams was on the sixth floor to within three minutes of the shooting, in a position where he would have seen - and probably did see - whoever was in the "sniper's nest" area. Jack Dougherty was standing "ten feet west of the west elevator" - that is, directly in the path of the fleeing assassin (which scenario was only necessary if Oswald was the shooter having to hurry downstairs to meet Baker & Truly in the second floor lunchroom within 90 seconds) - and was not run over by Oswald as he had to have been.

Some say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery; others say that stealing one idea is plagiarism, while taking more than one idea is 'research.' What will we call the above?

My original post in the thread Inside the Target Car:

I have no particular qualms about the fatal shot - or any or all of them - having come from the 6th floor southeast window. If it could be shown with 100% certainty that this is indeed the case, that does nothing toward proving whose finger was on the trigger.

The proof that Oswald was not there is the fact that none of the four men upstairs who were on the fifth and/or sixth floors said that they had seen him there, which they absolutely must have if he was there. Bonnie Ray Williams was on the sixth floor to within three minutes of the shooting, in a position where he would have seen - and probably did see - whoever was in the "sniper's nest" area. Jack Dougherty was standing "ten feet west of the west elevator" - that is, directly in the path of the fleeing assassin (which scenario was only necessary if Oswald was the shooter having to hurry downstairs to meet Baker & Truly in the second floor lunchroom within 90 seconds) - and was not run over by Oswald as he had to have been.

Hank Norman and Junior Jarman did not go upstairs until after they had heard - either directly from a police radio, or through the word spreading through the crowd - that the Presidential parade was on Main Street. The earliest that could have been was 12:22, or possibly as late as 12:26. They then walked around the TSBD via Houston Street and rode the freight elevator to the fifth floor. Bonnie Ray joined them after they had arrived at the windows, and immediately after he had left the sixth floor.

Both elevators were on the fifth floor, according to the testimony of Roy Truly, who had looked up the shaft and seen the bottoms of both elevators at the same level after entering the building behind Officer Baker, and before the two of them began their ascent by stair. The east-side passenger elevator could only be operated by someone inside the elevator car; the freight elevator, while able to be called from another floor, would not operate if the gate was open. Truly was unable to call either elevator to the first floor, thus indicating that the freight elevator gate was open. When Baker & Truly reached the fifth floor, the freight elevator was gone.

Jack Dougherty himself testified to his location at the time he heard "a backfire," and that he was "getting stock" on both the fifth and sixth floors. Since the only other persons known to be upstairs - the "three blind mice" at the front windows - were away from the elevators. While any could have left the gate open (despite Jarman's testimony that he'd closed it upon exiting), Jack's proximity to the west-side freight elevator - "ten feet west of the west elevator" - his "getting stock," and his admission that he'd ridden the freight elevator downstairs after hearing the "backfire," does more than simply suggest that it was Jack who'd had the elevator gate open.

When Roy Truly saw the elevators upstairs, he not only yelled up for it, but also rang a bell that was used to alert anyone using the elevator that someone else needed it and to make sure the gate was closed. Standing directly beside it, Jack did not react to the bell or Truly's yelling. Whether this was a pre-arranged signal or not, it certainly served to alert anyone upstairs that someone else wanted to use the elevator.

Since Bonnie Ray could've seen Oswald but apparently didn't (he'd have had no fear of retribution from Oswald after the weekend was over, so if he'd seen him he could have said so), and had been upstairs past the time that the parade had been scheduled to go by - meaning that anyone who'd intended to shoot the President would have had to have been in position before the scheduled 12:25 arrival - and Jack did not get run over (or hear or see anything) while standing directly in Oswald's presumed path from the time he'd heard the "backfire" until he'd taken the elevator downstairs after Truly had started upstairs, demonstrates conclusively that Oswald was not upstairs; someone else therefore must have been.

Whoever was upstairs doing the shooting was not constrained by the time needed to meet Officer Baker on the second floor, and thus had nearly all of the time that it took Baker to run inside, wait for the elevator briefly, start upstairs, encounter Oswald, and run up the remaining flights of stairs, stopping to look beyond each landing, before it was necessary to go down ... or possibly up to wait at the sixth floor while Baker & Truly boarded the east elevator (which Truly did not even remark to Baker about its being missing when they got there) and rode it up to the seventh floor, clearing the way for the freight elevator to go down without the chance of encountering Baker on the way.

... And that, my friends, is how it's quite possible that the fatal shot came from the 6th floor southeast window without having been fired by Lee Oswald.

It likewise explains the "elderly Negro" (Bonnie Ray with white stuff in his hair) seen by someone on the street, and it's my bet that it was Jack Dougherty both standing at "parade rest" (his WWII service before his release on medical grounds was guarding aircraft on the ground, i.e., sentry duty) and babysitting Bonnie Ray and the boys on the fifth floor to make sure they didn't go downstairs before the shooting was done, as well as how the shooter(s) got out of the building. Luke Mooney saw them on his way upstairs but apparently never realized it.

[William Kelly]

... The proof that Oswald was not there is the fact that none of the four men upstairs who were on the fifth and/or sixth floors said that they had seen him there, which they absolutely must have if he was there. Bonnie Ray Williams was on the sixth floor to within three minutes of the shooting, in a position where he would have seen - and probably did see - whoever was in the "sniper's nest" area. Jack Dougherty was standing "ten feet west of the west elevator" - that is, directly in the path of the fleeing assassin (which scenario was only necessary if Oswald was the shooter having to hurry downstairs to meet Baker & Truly in the second floor lunchroom within 90 seconds) - and was not run over by Oswald as he had to have been.

Peter, did you plagerize Duke's Conspiracy Theory? You should get college credit for just reading this stuff, but to plagerize Duke's CT without even getting credit for it, you should know better. Duke may have to copyright his conspiracy theory before anybody else steals it. BK

Some say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery; others say that stealing one idea is plagiarism, while taking more than one idea is 'research.' What will we call the above?

My original post in the thread Inside the Target Car:

I have no particular qualms about the fatal shot - or any or all of them - having come from the 6th floor southeast window. If it could be shown with 100% certainty that this is indeed the case, that does nothing toward proving whose finger was on the trigger.

The proof that Oswald was not there is the fact that none of the four men upstairs who were on the fifth and/or sixth floors said that they had seen him there, which they absolutely must have if he was there. Bonnie Ray Williams was on the sixth floor to within three minutes of the shooting, in a position where he would have seen - and probably did see - whoever was in the "sniper's nest" area. Jack Dougherty was standing "ten feet west of the west elevator" - that is, directly in the path of the fleeing assassin (which scenario was only necessary if Oswald was the shooter having to hurry downstairs to meet Baker & Truly in the second floor lunchroom within 90 seconds) - and was not run over by Oswald as he had to have been.

Hank Norman and Junior Jarman did not go upstairs until after they had heard - either directly from a police radio, or through the word spreading through the crowd - that the Presidential parade was on Main Street. The earliest that could have been was 12:22, or possibly as late as 12:26. They then walked around the TSBD via Houston Street and rode the freight elevator to the fifth floor. Bonnie Ray joined them after they had arrived at the windows, and immediately after he had left the sixth floor.

Both elevators were on the fifth floor, according to the testimony of Roy Truly, who had looked up the shaft and seen the bottoms of both elevators at the same level after entering the building behind Officer Baker, and before the two of them began their ascent by stair. The east-side passenger elevator could only be operated by someone inside the elevator car; the freight elevator, while able to be called from another floor, would not operate if the gate was open. Truly was unable to call either elevator to the first floor, thus indicating that the freight elevator gate was open. When Baker & Truly reached the fifth floor, the freight elevator was gone.

Jack Dougherty himself testified to his location at the time he heard "a backfire," and that he was "getting stock" on both the fifth and sixth floors. Since the only other persons known to be upstairs - the "three blind mice" at the front windows - were away from the elevators. While any could have left the gate open (despite Jarman's testimony that he'd closed it upon exiting), Jack's proximity to the west-side freight elevator - "ten feet west of the west elevator" - his "getting stock," and his admission that he'd ridden the freight elevator downstairs after hearing the "backfire," does more than simply suggest that it was Jack who'd had the elevator gate open.

When Roy Truly saw the elevators upstairs, he not only yelled up for it, but also rang a bell that was used to alert anyone using the elevator that someone else needed it and to make sure the gate was closed. Standing directly beside it, Jack did not react to the bell or Truly's yelling. Whether this was a pre-arranged signal or not, it certainly served to alert anyone upstairs that someone else wanted to use the elevator.

Since Bonnie Ray could've seen Oswald but apparently didn't (he'd have had no fear of retribution from Oswald after the weekend was over, so if he'd seen him he could have said so), and had been upstairs past the time that the parade had been scheduled to go by - meaning that anyone who'd intended to shoot the President would have had to have been in position before the scheduled 12:25 arrival - and Jack did not get run over (or hear or see anything) while standing directly in Oswald's presumed path from the time he'd heard the "backfire" until he'd taken the elevator downstairs after Truly had started upstairs, demonstrates conclusively that Oswald was not upstairs; someone else therefore must have been.

Whoever was upstairs doing the shooting was not constrained by the time needed to meet Officer Baker on the second floor, and thus had nearly all of the time that it took Baker to run inside, wait for the elevator briefly, start upstairs, encounter Oswald, and run up the remaining flights of stairs, stopping to look beyond each landing, before it was necessary to go down ... or possibly up to wait at the sixth floor while Baker & Truly boarded the east elevator (which Truly did not even remark to Baker about its being missing when they got there) and rode it up to the seventh floor, clearing the way for the freight elevator to go down without the chance of encountering Baker on the way.

... And that, my friends, is how it's quite possible that the fatal shot came from the 6th floor southeast window without having been fired by Lee Oswald.

It likewise explains the "elderly Negro" (Bonnie Ray with white stuff in his hair) seen by someone on the street, and it's my bet that it was Jack Dougherty both standing at "parade rest" (his WWII service before his release on medical grounds was guarding aircraft on the ground, i.e., sentry duty) and babysitting Bonnie Ray and the boys on the fifth floor to make sure they didn't go downstairs before the shooting was done, as well as how the shooter(s) got out of the building. Luke Mooney saw them on his way upstairs but apparently never realized it.

[Peter McGuire]

I guess I thought Duke’s explanation of what happened during that critical time was part of Education Forum lore, and that no acknowledgement of the author was even necessary.

The important thing is that, as you have suggested, even if you did believe the ridiculous story that Oswald brought the weapon in under the auspices of it being “curtain rods”, it doesn’t matter because you can’t place him on the sixth floor at the time of the shooting.

[William Kelly]

I guess I thought Duke's explanation of what happened during that critical time was part of Education Forum lore, and that no acknowledgement of the author was even necessary.

The important thing is that, as you have suggested, even if you did believe the ridiculous story that Oswald brought the weapon in under the auspices of it being "curtain rods", it doesn't matter because you can't place him on the sixth floor at the time of the shooting.

Yes Peter,

Although the second floor of the TSBD is no longer configured the way it was, I think that they should recreate the scene - the Northwest corner of the TSBD second floor, as it was on 11/22/63, complete with the electronically closing door and 2 inch by 2 inch window, and wax figures of Officer Marion Baker, Roy Truly and Oswald in their positions, Truly ahead of Baker as they round the corner, when Baker sees a person through the window of the vestibule of the lunchroom. If the person in the window, shortly thereafter identified as Oswald, had decended the same stairs Truly was no assending, wouldn't Truly have seen him since he was ahead of Baker?

Since Truly didn't see him, and Baker only saw him through the window in the door from a postion at the bottom of the steps, from where you could only see into the vestibule if the door was completely shut, it isn't hard to conclude that Oswald, identified as the person seen by Baker through the door window, had entered the vestible from the south door, and thus did not decend the stairs from the sixth floor, and is therefore not the Sixth Floor sniper.

And the Secret Service recognized this when the did their "reenactment," and actually stop their reenactment at that point, as apparently they didn't have to bother following the Patsy, whereever he went.

BK

[Duke Lane]

I guess I thought Duke's explanation of what happened during that critical time was part of Education Forum lore, and that no acknowledgement of the author was even necessary.

The important thing is that, as you have suggested, even if you did believe the ridiculous story that Oswald brought the weapon in under the auspices of it being "curtain rods", it doesn't matter because you can't place him on the sixth floor at the time of the shooting.

Despite Bill's I'm-sure-well-intentioned suggestion to the contrary, I was hardly upset, possibly flattered, and certainly surprised: I never thought anyone even paid any attention to it - much less kept a copy of it! - since nobody ever remarked on it, good, bad or indifferent.

It's not "Education Forum lore" to the best of my knowledge, at least not yet. I'm glad you liked it well enough to use it since it is quite original and, in all my reading on this topic, yet to be suggested by anyone else. In some people's eyes, that would mean it's not worth considering now if nobody else has already, or that if it's not "part of the lore," then it must've been discarded as a theory.

So if Oswald was just a patsy who was either already in the lunchroom or had entered from a direction that he could not have reached after escaping from the sixth floor, what did happen up there? Isn't that the important question? We've been over the whole deal about how the official story "can't" be the real story, so what is the real story?

The gist to it is that Bonnie Ray Williams was most certainly on the sixth floor until some time after it was announced over DPD radio that the motorcade was on Main Street, which would have been 12:22 at the earliest or 12:26 at the latest, plus the time it took for Hank Norman and Junior Jarman to go from out in front of the TSBD up to the fifth floor, and then Williams to have gone down to meet them.

That being so, and presuming the killer(s) not waiting until the last possible moment to get into the window(s) on the sixth floor - certainly, they'd want to have been there and prepared earlier than the motorcade's scheduled arrival five minutes before it ultimately got there - it's a near certainty that Bonnie Ray would've seen whoever was up there.

If that "whoever" was Oswald, and Oswald being dead only 48 hours later and therefore being no threat to Bonnie Ray or his family, why wouldn't Bonnie Ray simply have said "yup, it was Oswald all right, saw him there myself" ... other than that whoever he saw was someone else who did pose a threat to him?

(In fact, even if Bonnie Ray had seen someone else up there, it would've been so much simpler if he'd just lied and said that he'd seen Oswald with the gun upstairs: in the face of an actual eyewitness, the murder would've been "solved" and "substantiated" long ago. Instead we got someone who "left" before any shooter(s) got to the sixth floor and consequently screwed up his story several times trying to get his lies straight and who ultimately ended up "telling the truth" by way of omission.)

A full and complete reconstruction taking account of everyone that we know to have been on the upper floors of the TSBD and what we know to have occurred exonerates Oswald from having been either "the" or even "a" shooter; what he may or may not have known about others being there is beyond our ability to know.

We would acknowledge that the only persons to have said that they were upstairs prior to the shooting were Bonnie Ray Williams, Hank Norman, Junior Jarman and Jack Dougherty. Bonnie Ray said that he'd gone upstairs after he'd "washed up" and he'd seen that everybody else he wanted to be with was gone from the first floor, and that he'd ridden the east passenger elevator - the one that required someone to be in it to operate - to the sixth floor where he remained (regardless of the various estimates he'd made about how long he'd been there) until he heard someone else downstairs. He then took the passenger elevator down to the fifth floor.

Hank and Junior testified that they'd been out in front of the building until they'd heard that the motorcade was "on Main Street" at either 12:22 or 12:26, at which point they walked around rather than through the building, up Houston and around by the tracks and in the west freight doors. They checked the passenger elevator; it wasn't on the first floor, so they took the freight elevator to the fifth floor where they got off, closing the gate behind them so the elevator could be used by others if needed. They went over to the south windows, presumably making some noise in doing so, where Bonnie Ray joined them afterward.

Jack Dougherty was on both the fifth and sixth floors "getting some stock" - a phrase he used repeatedly - but claimed to have seen nobody. At the time of the shooting, when he said he heard "one" sound which he "thought was a backfire," he was standing "ten feet west of the west elevator," that is, in between the stairs going up to the sixth floor and the stairs going down to the fourth floor, presumably - according to his description - loading the orders he'd filled onto the elevator. But was he?

Later, Roy Truly would testify that both elevators were on the fifth floor as he looked up the shaft before he and Officer Baker started up the stairs. Bonnie Ray had ridden the passenger elevator down from the sixth to the fifth, and Hank and Junior had ridden the freight elevator up to the fifth; all is in accord so far. The passenger elevator couldn't be called down because of how it operated; the freight elevator also couldn't be, but only because of its gate being opened.

If Jack was "ten feet west of the west elevator" at the time of the shooting, he was only 90 feet away from where Hank and Junior and Bonnie Ray all ran together across the front of the building to the west windows overlooking the railroad yard, which they then opened. Presumably, in their apparent excitement, they did not do so stealthily or silently.

While a "wall of boxes" may have hidden Jack from the three men, it would not have kept the noise they made from reaching Jack's ears or necessarily from him seeing them at one point or another. Yet the men claimed not to be aware of Jack's presence, and he claimed not to be aware of theirs. Moreover, while standing "ten feet west of the west elevator," he would also have been directly in the path of "the fleeing assassin" since was there prior to the shooting, at the time he heard the "backfire," and he didn't leave the fifth floor until after Truly had seen the elevators both on the fifth floor, which was only moments before the lunchroom encounter with Oswald.

How did Oswald run down from the sixth floor without being seen or heard by Dougherty - if not actually bowling him over - when Jack was working right in the supposed escape path, other than that Oswald didn't run down from the sixth floor past the freight elevator in front of which Jack was working? Recall that if he'd left that area, he'd have no longer been behind the "wall of boxes" shielding him from the black men's sight (and presumably them from his), and given the open space of the fifth floor, he'd have been more likely aware of their presence than they of his, presuming that they weren't aware of his being there all along.

While Bill's comments about the re-enactment and other aspects of Baker's sighting of Oswald (and Truly's failure to have noticed him or the "electronically" - pneumatically? - closing door even despite his familiarity with the building) are all valid, they address the question of Oswald's "escape" without also noting that Oswald would supposedly have run down the stairs, passing right by Jack Dougherty unseen, from the sixth to the second floor before Jack even left the front of the elevator!

Why not? What is it that everyone's missed about this whole episode for so long? Why is it that, because Dougherty was described (possibly self-servingly) as "retarded" and wasn't necessarily the sharpest knife in the drawer, he is presumed to have no knowledge of nor part in what took place upstairs?

Can we acknowledge that, since Jack said that he didn't go anywhere else from "ten feet west of the west elevator" from the time he heard the "backfire" till he rode the elevator downstairs (which only could have been after Baker and Truly started up the stairs and therefore after "Oswald ran downstairs"), that he absolutely must have seen and heard Oswald's escape, or else Oswald didn't "escape" or otherwise descend from the sixth floor after the shooting?

Can we also acknowledge that, if he didn't run past Jack standing "ten feet west of the west elevator" that the entire "re-enactment" is moot and no longer worth considering except as a means to "prove" that Oswald "could've done it?"

With the need to get Oswald from the sixth to the second floor in time for the encounter with Baker obviated, there is no longer any "need" to have the sixth floor vacated in any amount of time shorter than the time it would have taken someone to have gotten up five flights of stairs without use of the elevators. Let's then consider what other very possible if not very highly likely scenarios that there might be to accomplish what was clearly accomplished if Oswald wasn't on the sixth floor and didn't shoot the President. The evidence is there; what could they be?

Arthur Conan Doyle wrote in The Beryl Coronet what has become something of an axiom: "Whenever you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

While it may not have been impossible for Oswald to have run from the sniper's nest to the second floor, ditching his gun along the way, and be in the position he was in - and the doors in the fully closed position "behind" him - it is impossible for someone to have run by or through someone else standing "ten feet west of the west elevator" when the staircase was itself only fifteen feet west of the west elevator - that is, passing within five feet - without being seen nor heard while in a rush for what might well amount to one's life.

If, then, Oswald didn't do it, how was it accomplished? I spelled out one scenario, at least in part and briefly; does anyone else have another? Or is it not important?

[Duke Lane]

Further to the above, here is the northwest corner of the fifth floor as diagrammed and shown in CE487, "Texas School Book Depository – Diagram of Fifth Floor," at 17H204 (link to MFF), with the "scale in feet" cut-and-pasted to show the distance at, from and between the west elevator and the staircase:

Here is what Bonnie Ray Williams had to say about this area:

Mr. Ball

. All right. When you were at "Z" [the first set of windows on the west wall north of the southwest corner of the TSBD] were you able to see the stairwell?

Mr. Williams

. No, sir.

Mr. Ball

. Why?

Mr. Williams

.

You could not see the stairs from that point because this other--this is the stairway, and it has some shelves made out of some old wooden boxes. Those old wooden boxes come out to about right here. And they come out maybe 5 feet, even more than that, past the stairway. And that would block your view of the stairway from that point.

Mr. Ball

. Mark it in there with your pencil.

Mr. Williams

. These are the stairs. I would say the bookcase would come out like that.

Mr. Ball

.

The shelf we will mark "WX", both ends of the shelf.

...

Without benefit of the scale being placed as near to the elevators and stairwell as the above diagram has it, we can see that Bonnie Ray did a fairly accurate job of placing the end of the "wall of boxes" as being "maybe 5 feet, even more than that, past the stairway." He went on to say, however, that the west elevator was plainly visible:

Mr. Ball

. I am not going into what you saw.

But could you see either elevator from where you were standing at "Z"?

Mr. Williams

.

Yes, sir; you could see this pretty plainly.

Mr. Ball

.

You mean the west elevator

.

Mr. Williams

.

Yes sir

.

Mr. Ball

. Could you see the east elevator?

Mr. Williams

. No, sir; you could not see it exactly.

The east elevator - that is, the door into it - was around a wall and facing away from where he'd been, so he wouldn't have been able to see it "exactly," but he made no equivocation about the west freight elevator where Jack Dougherty was, supposedly (or presumably) loading stock onto the elevator with the door open, thus preventing the elevator from operating when Roy Truly attempted to call it down to the first floor before he and Officer Baker started up the stairs.

According to Truly's testimony, the bottoms of both elevators could be seen together at the fifth floor; the freight elevator would not respond because the gate was open, and the east passenger elevator did not operate with someone inside of it. Jack Dougherty was "ten feet west of the west elevator" with its doors open, yet he did not respond to the bell that Roy Truly said that he'd rung twice and yelled up the shaft "real loud" to get someone's attention to "turn loose the elevator:"

Mr. Belin.

Now, you got to the elevator, and what did you do then?

Mr. Truly.

I looked up. This is two elevators in the same well. This elevator over here.

Mr. Belin.

You are pointing to the west one?

Mr. Truly.

I am pointing to the west one. This elevator was on the fifth floor. Also,

the east elevator - as far as I can tell - both of them were on the fifth floor at that time. This elevator will come down if the gates are down, and you push a button

.

Representative Ford.

Which elevator is that?

Mr. Truly.

The west one.

But the east one will not come down unless you get on it and bring it down. You cannot call it if the gates are down.

Representative Ford.

That is the east elevator?

Mr. Truly.

The east elevator.

There is a button and a little bell here I pressed

.

Mr. Belin.

You might put a "B" on Exhibit 362 by the elevator for "button."

Mr. Truly.

That is right on this surface. There is a little button. I pressed the button and the elevator didn't move. I called upstairs, "Turn loose the elevator."

Mr. Belin.

When you say call up,

in what kind of a voice did you call?

Mr. Truly.

Real loud. I suppose in an excited voice. But loud enough that anyone could have heard me if they had not been over stacking or making a little noise. But I rang the bell and pushed this button.

Mr. Belin.

What did you call?

Mr. Truly.

I said, "Turn loose the elevator." Those boys understand that language.

Mr. Belin.

What does that mean?

Mr. Truly.

That means if they have the gates up, they go pull the gates down, and when you press the button, you can pull it down.

Mr. Belin.

And how many times did you yell that?

Mr. Truly.

Two times.

Mr. Belin.

After you had first pushed the button?

Mr. Truly.

That is right. I had pressed the button twice I believe, and called up for the elevator twice.

Mr. Belin.

Then what did you do? First of all, did the elevator come down?

Mr. Truly.

It did not.

Mr. Belin.

All right. Then what did you do?

Mr. Truly.

I went up on a run up the stairway.

... Yet Jack, who apparently did not leave the space behind the "wall of boxes" since the three men didn't see him and who was "ten feet west of the west elevator," did not respond to either the bell or Truly's yelling. If the WC version of events is correct - which it cannot be - then Oswald had already run past Jack and was well on his way to the second floor by the time these events occurred, yet Jack did not see or hear him run by. Given the small confines of the area, is it even remotely possible that he did not either see or hear Oswald, or not hear either the bell or Truly's yell? When there was the opportunity

Bonnie Ray Williams, Hank Norman, Junior Jarman and Roy Truly were all deposed before the WC at Washington on March 24, 1964. When the opportunity later arose to clarify these questions with Jack Dougherty at Dallas 15 days later on April 8, Jack was not asked if he'd heard Truly's calls or the bell. Is it reasonable to presume that, given the purpose for which the bell was installed - to alert someone using the elevator that someone wanted to use it and to close the gate so they could - that Jack, who was so near to the elevator in a confined space, did not hear it?

Yet Jack did not "turn loose the elevator."

In the time it took to run up one flight of stairs to reach the second floor lunchroom, Oswald - according to the Report - had already entered the door and been inside long enough for the doors - the one from the stairwell and the one into the lunchroom - to have closed completely or nearly completely after running across the sixth floor, hiding his rifle, moving quickly past Jack within a few feet of him, and gone down three more flights of steps and through the doors.

After the lunchroom encounter, Baker and Truly continued up the stairs with Truly in the lead and Baker stopping briefly at each floor to look around. In testimony, David Belin ascertained if Truly saw the elevator at the second floor ("no, sir"), third ("no, sir") or fourth floors ("no, I am sure not"). By the time they reached the fifth floor, however,

Mr. Truly.

When we reached the fifth floor, the east elevator was on that floor.

Mr. Belin.

What about the west elevator? Was that on the fifth floor?

Mr. Truly.

No, sir. I am sure it wasn't, or I could not have seen the east elevator. ...

I am almost positive that it wasn't there.

...

Mr. Belin.

Now, Exhibit 487 appears to be a diagram of the fifth floor. As I understand it, you might mark on that diagram the way you went from the stairs over to the east elevator. [The line drawn by Truly is shown on the diagram above.]

Mr. Truly.

Well,

I started around towards the stairway, and then I noted that this east elevator was there. So I told the officer, "Come on, here is an elevator," and then we ran down to the east side, and got on the east elevator.

Mr. Belin.

Could you put the letter "T" at the end of that line, please? All right. Now, where did you go with the east elevator, to what floor?

Mr. Truly.

We rode the east elevator to the seventh floor.

Mr. Belin.

Did you stop at the sixth floor at all?

Mr. Truly.

No, sir.

Since both elevators had been on the fifth floor when Truly had been on the first and both rang the bell and yelled up the shaft, but the west elevator had departed the fifth floor, had not been on any of the intervening floors, and had apparently not passed by Truly and Baker as they ascended the stairs ("I didn't notice it anywheres up there. I wasn't really looking for it, however," Truly testified), Belin explored this question with Truly:

Mr. Belin.

Mr. Truly, when you took the elevator to the fifth - from the fifth to the seventh floor, that east elevator did you see the west elevator at all as you passed the sixth floor, when you got to the seventh floor?

Mr. Truly.

No, sir; because I could not see the west elevator while operating the east elevator.

Mr. Belin.

You mean because you were not looking at it, or you just couldn't see it?

Mr. Truly.

Well, the back of the east elevator is solid metal, and if I passed - yes; I could. I beg your pardon.

Mr. Truly.

I could see it from the fifth floor. I didn't notice it anywheres up there. I wasn't really looking for it, however.

Mr. Belin.

Now, after you got - when did you notice that west elevator next? If you know.

Mr. Truly.

I don't know.

Mr. Belin.

I believe you said when you first saw the elevators, you thought they were both on the same floor, the fifth floor.

Mr. Truly.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Belin.

Then how do you explain that when you got to the fifth floor, one of the elevators was not there?

Mr. Truly.

I don't know, sir.

I think one of my boys was getting stock off the fifth floor on the back side, and probably moved the elevator at the time somewheres between the time we were running upstairs. And I would not have remembered that. I mean I wouldn't have really heard that, with the commotion we were making running up the enclosed stairwell

.

If one were looking for proof that the WC considered nobody other than Oswald as a possible suspect, there's your smoking gun. When faced with a distinct means of escape by someone other than Oswald and previously unknown, counsel accepted without question Truly's explanation that "one of my boys" was on the upper floors of the TSBD during the lunch hour when nobody else was working and who was unseen by any of the three men that, by the point this had come up on the afternoon of March 24, had already been deposed and sworn to having seen nobody else on the fifth or sixth floors, working or otherwise.

Furthermore, once Truly explained that he "wouldn't really have heard" the elevator descending while he and Baker were running up the stairs making a "commotion," Belin elicited a non-sequitur from Truly that he explored no further and didn't ask about the contradiction in Truly's testimony:

Mr. Belin.

Did you see anyone on the fifth floor?

Mr. Truly.

Yes.

When coming down

I am sure I saw Jack Dougherty getting some books off the fifth floor. Now, this is so dim in my mind that I could be making a mistake. But I believe that he was getting some stock, that he had already gone back to work, and that he was getting some stock off the fifth floor.

Mr. Belin.

You really don't know who was operating the elevator, then, is that correct?

Mr. Truly.

That is correct.

Mr. Belin.

What is your best guess?

Mr. Truly.

My best guess is that Jack Dougherty was.

Truly said that he'd seen Jack on the fifth floor after he and Baker had gone to the seventh floor on the passenger elevator and come back down to the fifth floor. Belin clarified that, when Truly had first gotten to the fifth floor, the west elevator was gone and Truly didn't know who'd been on the fifth floor prior to that in order to move the west elevator. His "best guess," however, that it was Jack Dougherty was good enough.

Belin did not attempt to ascertain why, since he and Baker had gone upstairs in search of a possible shooter (regardless of whether Truly believed the shots had come from the building or not), he did not call the missing freight elevator to Baker's attention. Nor was it apparently considered (what with the bird in hand ... and dead) that if it was not Truly's "best guess" of Jack Dougherty operating the elevator, who was operating it instead (or even if it was, who could have been in the elevator with him)?

One must wonder what lines of investigation might have been opened (or not) if Jack hadn't admitted to having been on the fifth floor at the time of the shooting, and taking the elevator downstairs shortly afterward. Nobody testified to having seen Jack once the lunch break started other than Danny Arce, who said that Jack had eaten lunch in the domino while Danny was there and before everyone had gone outside to watch the parade around 12:10, and only Jack's word that he'd been "getting some stock" on both the fifth and sixth floors yet had inexplicably not seen or heard "anyone at all" - not Oswald nor Williams nor Norman nor Jarman - at any time while up there or while "ten feet west of the west elevator" at the time of the shooting, immediately afterward when the three black men "moved rather fast ... at a trotting pace" 100 feet from the southeast windows to the west side of the building, or when Oswald supposedly ran down from the sixth floor to meet Baker and Truly from a minute to a minute-and-a-half from the time of the shooting.

Nor did the three black men claim to have seen Jack at any time from before the shooting until after Baker and Truly had gotten onto the east elevator - after the west elevator had departed - which even was witnessed by at least Bonnie Ray Williams:

Mr. Ball

. Now, when you were questioned by the FBI agents, talking to Mr. Odum and Mr. Griffin, they reported in writing here that while you were standing at the west end of the building on the fifth floor, a police officer came up on the elevator and looked all around the fifth floor and left the floor. Did you see anything like that?

Mr. Williams

. Well, at the time I was up there I saw a motorcycle policeman. He came up. And the only thing I saw of him was his white helmet.

Mr. Ball

. What did he

Mr. Williams

. He just came around, and around to the elevator.

Mr. Ball

. Which elevator?

Mr. Williams

. I believe it was the east elevator.

Mr. Ball

. Did you see anybody with him?

Mr. Williams

. I did not.

Mr. Ball

. You were only able to see the top of his helmet?

Mr. Williams

. Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball

. You could only see the top of his helmet

Mr. Williams

. Yes, sir; that is the only thing I saw about it.

Mr. Ball

. They reported that you told them on the 23d of November that you and Hank, that is Hank Norman, isn't it--

Mr. Williams

. Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball

. And Junior--that is Junior Jarman-were standing where they would have seen anyone coming down from the sixth floor by way of the stairs. Did you tell them [the FBI agents] that?

Mr. Williams

. I could not possibly have told him that, because you cannot see anything coming down from that position.

Mr. Ball

. And that you did not see anyone coming down.

Mr. Williams

. No, sir. An elephant could walk by there, and you could not see him.

In light of the above, one must wonder if Bonnie Ray's exaggeration about an "elephant" was intended to emphasize his inability to see something that he actually could and did see, or at the very least was aware of. For, if Bonnie Ray was on the sixth floor within 15-20 feet of the sniper's nest until after 12:26 (as it certainly appears that he was), how could he have not seen Oswald (if Oswald was there) or any of the activity claimed to have been seen by witnesses on the ground in the minutes leading up to the shooting.

The dust in Williams' hair seen after the shooting while on the fifth floor, coupled with the time he must've been upstairs, could also lead one to wonder whether the dust had a different origin than speculated and that he was the man with the "white spot" in his hairline seen by Amos Euins ... and if he was, then there is no question that Bonnie Ray saw much more than he claimed to have seen, and knew the identities of the killer(s) who, in any case, was not Oswald because, if it were, Bonnie Ray had no reason not to say so.

[Duke Lane]

The preceding also has not yet reached the status of being "lore," but flattery is always gratefully accepted!!