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I was strongly suspecting a Holmes - DCC connection, and there indeed seems to be one, and not an insignificant one at that.?

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Guest Tom Scully

....

"Is there any way we can find out more about this?"

http://www.sherrigreen.com/Bullet.htm

Those who pulled the strings in Dallas belonged to the Citizens Council, a group of businessmen with the authority to commit their company’s resources to various projects. When the Citizens Council needed PR help, they turned to Sam Bloom of the Bloom Advertising Agency.

Helen Holmes directed the agency’s PR division in 1963. In the three weeks prior to Kennedy’s trip, Holmes tried to convince Dallas citizens to put aside politics and embrace the president. A string of leaders issued statements encouraging tolerance and warmth. Sheriff William Decker was featured last, stressing that civil unrest would be dealt with sternly.

Back at the Trade Mart, where more than 2,500 Dallasites had expected to lunch with the Kennedys, Citizens Council president Erik Jonsson and leaders of other host organizations drafted an empathetic statement that Holmes hand delivered to the local media. For days, weeks, even years, city leaders pondered how to salvage Dallas ’ image.

Tom, we got a small problem here....the woman who directed the Bloom Agency PR division is described as being alive ten years after Harry Holmes wife, Helen had died. Now, this could be the Holmes's daughter, Helen Joyce, but she became Mrs. Harvey at some point. Maybe Gary Mack can PM one of us as to whether this person is any relation to Harry Holmes. I have not watched this video of Helen Holmes yet.:

http://www.jfk.org/go/collections/item-detail?fedoraid=1993.011.0010

Videotaped oral history interview with Helen Holmes -- Mrs. Holmes was Public Relations Director at the Sam Bloom Agency and coordinated media coverage for both President Kennedy's visit to Dallas and the Jack Ruby trial. Mrs. Holmes recorded a videotaped oral history interview on 5/3/1993, and she also participated in a videotaped panel discussion at The Sixth Floor Museum at Dealey Plaza on 3/14/2004.

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Guest Tom Scully

...Tom, we got a small problem here....the woman who directed the Bloom Agency PR division is described as being alive ten years after Harry Holmes wife, Helen had died. Now, this could be the Holmes's daughter, Helen Joyce, but she became Mrs. Harvey at some point. Maybe Gary Mack can PM one of us as to whether this person is any relation to Harry Holmes. I have not watched this video of Helen Holmes yet.:

http://www.jfk.org/go/collections/item-detail?fedoraid=1993.011.0010

...Mrs. Holmes recorded a videotaped oral history interview on 5/3/1993, and she also participated in a videotaped panel discussion at The Sixth Floor Museum at Dealey Plaza on 3/14/2004.

Okay, Gary Mack spotted this thread and sent this info to me.:

Helen Holmes of the Bloom Agency is the wife of:

Bert Holmes,

Longtime editor for the Dallas Times Herald, Holmes wrote community affairs columns from the 1960s until the 1990s. Recorded August 3, 1993.

http://jfk.org/go/collections/oral-histories/interviews-by-name?letter=H

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...Tom, we got a small problem here....the woman who directed the Bloom Agency PR division is described as being alive ten years after Harry Holmes wife, Helen had died. Now, this could be the Holmes's daughter, Helen Joyce, but she became Mrs. Harvey at some point. Maybe Gary Mack can PM one of us as to whether this person is any relation to Harry Holmes. I have not watched this video of Helen Holmes yet.:

http://www.jfk.org/g...d=1993.011.0010

...Mrs. Holmes recorded a videotaped oral history interview on 5/3/1993, and she also participated in a videotaped panel discussion at The Sixth Floor Museum at Dealey Plaza on 3/14/2004.

Okay, Gary Mack spotted this thread and sent this info to me.:

Helen Holmes of the Bloom Agency is the wife of:

Bert Holmes,

Longtime editor for the Dallas Times Herald, Holmes wrote community affairs columns from the 1960s until the 1990s. Recorded August 3, 1993.

http://jfk.org/go/co...y-name?letter=H

Paper: Dallas Morning News, The (TX)

Deceased: Helen Holmes, pianist and teacher, to be buried today

Date: August 8, 1994

If you've heard a church pianist lately, there's a good chance he or she was taught by Helen Grace Banta Holmes.

It's a legacy to be remembered Monday when Mrs. Holmes is buried at Grove Hill Cemetery in Dallas. The 86-year-old pianist and piano teacher died of cancer Saturday at Christian Care Nursing Home. The graveside services will be at 2 p.m.

"She really had star pupils, and I think that was what she was so proud of - her students," said Mrs. Holmes' daughter, Helen Joyce Harvey of Garland.

Mrs. Holmes received her training and a degree in music from Warnsburg College in Warnsburg, Mo., graduating in the late 1920s.

After college, Mrs. Holmes began teaching senior English at a high school in Kansas City, Mo.

Family lore has it that Mrs. Holmes' first teaching experience was not entirely pleasant. Because she wasn't much older than her students, she was accused of dating some of them, Mrs. Harvey said, though the rumors were untrue.

If her students were enamored with their teacher, you could hardly blame them. Mrs. Holmes was named Miss Kansas City in 1925.

After a year of teaching, Mrs. Holmes decided that was not the occupation she wanted to pursue. Instead, she opted to become a homemaker and a church pianist.

"Everything revolved around her church," said her son-in-law, Jim Harvey. "That's where she wanted to be."

Mrs. Holmes played at churches in the Kansas City area before moving to Dallas in 1947. For the next 30 years, Mrs. Holmes was the pianist for East Grand Baptist Church, in addition to giving piano lessons out of her home.

"She loved it. Music was her life," Mr. Harvey said.

During the mid-1950s, Mrs. Holmes also played piano for Questions that Count, a Christian trivia program that aired on Channel 4, then known as KRLD-TV.

Mrs. Holmes played during the trivia questions, which usually concerned the Bible. She also sometimes played a piece while contestants guessed the title. During her years with the television program, Mrs. Holmes proved that even experienced pianists can get nervous.

"She said her hands shook so bad she could hardly could keep her fingers on the keys," Mrs. Harvey said.

In addition to her daughter, Mrs. Holmes is survived by her sons, Richard Lee Homes of Arlington and Robert D. Holmes of Garland; six grandchildren and two great-grandchildren.

Author: Jody Sowell

Section: NEWS

Page: 17A

© Copyright, 1994, The Dallas Morning News

More later

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Guest Tom Scully

Interesting, Robert...I assume you did not acquire the entire text of Helen Grace Banta's obituary online without paying a fee?

Is the text of Harry's obituary also available from your source? It seems hard (impossible ?) to come by.

By the way, who was her husband, her obituary does not contain that information?

I am joking....just another oddity to be ignored by the incurious WC report adherents. Shouldn't Helen's family have been proud to include the name of their father in their mother's obituary?

Edited by Tom Scully
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Interesting, Robert...I assume you did not acquire the entire text of Helen Grace Banta's obituary online without paying a fee?

Is the text of Harry's obituary also available from your source? It seems hard (impossible ?) to come by.

By the way, who was her husband, her obituary does not contain that information?

I am joking....just another oddity to be ignored by the incurious WC report adherents. Shouldn't Helen's family have been proud to include the name of their father in their mother's obituary?

Actually, I find it on find-a-grave, if I am not mistaken.

I've had it for awhile, but I have so many files, sometimes it takes me awhile to locate an item.

But there was no fee, wherever I obtained it. Regarding the walking trip, the location is closer to Garland than where I live; But I will do it, I just have a

lot of irons in the fire right now.....

One of the reasons I subtitled this thread "and the Terminal Annex Building," is that there was an employee there who seems to have been involved in the phony Oswald

impersonations.

1.FERRELL, DUDLEY LEE

Sources: CE 2999; CD 6, pp. 321-323; CD 7, pp. 543-545

Mary's Comments: White male. DOB: 5/25/25. POB: Shreveport, LA. Ferrell bears a marked resemblance to LHO. Supervisor of Mails at Main Post Office, Dallas. His mother, Mary Elizabeth Ferrell, 12210 Brookmeadow, Dallas, died Sat, June 24, 1978.

Also See LHM To Rankin From Hoover dated 3/24/64 Re Robert Ahler, Dudley Lee Ferrell

FBI 62-109090 Warren Commission HQ File, Section 7

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=147

Dudley Lee Ferrell, Robert Ahler, Lee Hariss and Larry Laverne Crafard, all,

according to the Warren Commission bore a resemblance to Oswald

CD 6 page 321

RE:Dudley Lee Ferrell

On December 2, 1963

Chester Pehl Service Manager Bock Ford Motor Co., New Braunfels. The day someone thought to be Oswald came there, Pehl checked his records and recognized

all persons were customers known to him except one D. L. Farrell

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10407&relPageId=320

http://myfox8.tributes.com/show/Dudley-Ferrell-83948327

FERRELL, DUDLEY LEE Born May 25, 1925 in Shreveport, LA and passed away August 4, 2008 in Dallas, TX. Preceded in death by his 1st wife, Bonnie. Survived by his wife of 18 years, Loyce; daughters, Connie Odle and husband Lloyd, Beverly Langford and husband Mike; sons, Guy B. Ferrell, Larry Burgess and wife Dixie; grandchildren, Lacresha, Erin, Elizabeth, Andrea, Ashley, Anthony, Amity, Michelle, Meredith, Justin, Shelby, Spencer, Christina, Courtney, Caitlyn; and great grandchildren, Grayson, Caitlyn, Irelynd, Chalmer, Oliver, Sequoia, and Olivia. Visitation will be from 6-8pm, Tuesday, August 5, 2008 at Restland Funeral Home. Service will be held 3:30pm, Wednesday, August 6, 2008 at Restland Memorial Chapel.

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Guest Tom Scully

Alright, Robert, when you get time to visit Grove Hill Cemetery it will be interesting to see if Harry's grave is located next to his wife, Helen's.

Did Hoover comply with the request described on the first page of this document?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=%22dudley+lee+ferrell%22+six+photographs&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=CX4-FKsfQTLb0K43MhQSm49E_AAAAqgQFT9A4zxA

MEM ORANDü .M TO: FROM: Ail Staff Members Mr. Burt W. Griff in

line upper lip. Mr. J. Edgar Hoover is being requested to provide six copies of appropriate photographs of Karris, Ahler, Crafard and Ferrell, together ...

Are six copies of a period photo of Dudley Lee Ferrell, along with a compilation of his activities between September and November, 1963, in the archive of WC evidence and exhibits?

Also, the description of Dudley in the Burt W. Griffin memorandum had his age as 28. He was 38 years old in 1963.

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....

"Is there any way we can find out more about this?"

http://www.sherrigreen.com/Bullet.htm

Those who pulled the strings in Dallas belonged to the Citizens Council, a group of businessmen with the authority to commit their company’s resources to various projects. When the Citizens Council needed PR help, they turned to Sam Bloom of the Bloom Advertising Agency.

Helen Holmes directed the agency’s PR division in 1963. In the three weeks prior to Kennedy’s trip, Holmes tried to convince Dallas citizens to put aside politics and embrace the president. A string of leaders issued statements encouraging tolerance and warmth. Sheriff William Decker was featured last, stressing that civil unrest would be dealt with sternly.

Back at the Trade Mart, where more than 2,500 Dallasites had expected to lunch with the Kennedys, Citizens Council president Erik Jonsson and leaders of other host organizations drafted an empathetic statement that Holmes hand delivered to the local media. For days, weeks, even years, city leaders pondered how to salvage Dallas ’ image.

Tom, we got a small problem here....the woman who directed the Bloom Agency PR division is described as being alive ten years after Harry Holmes wife, Helen had died. Now, this could be the Holmes's daughter, Helen Joyce, but she became Mrs. Harvey at some point. Maybe Gary Mack can PM one of us as to whether this person is any relation to Harry Holmes. I have not watched this video of Helen Holmes yet.:

http://www.jfk.org/go/collections/item-detail?fedoraid=1993.011.0010

Videotaped oral history interview with Helen Holmes -- Mrs. Holmes was Public Relations Director at the Sam Bloom Agency and coordinated media coverage for both President Kennedy's visit to Dallas and the Jack Ruby trial. Mrs. Holmes recorded a videotaped oral history interview on 5/3/1993, and she also participated in a videotaped panel discussion at The Sixth Floor Museum at Dealey Plaza on 3/14/2004.

"Tom, we got a small problem here....the woman who directed the Bloom Agency PR division is described as being alive ten years after Harry Holmes wife, Helen had died."

http://rootsweb.ancestry.com/~oklogan/lineage/fdale.htm

By Helen F. Holmes

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

http://www.okcemeteries.net/logan/lnorth/lnorth.htm

HOLMES Helen L. 12-16-1915 03-22-1997 Maj. USA - Wife of Robert F.

Author of the Logan County History

See photo

HOLMES Robert F. 04-10-1912 10-27-1962 SSgt BATRY B, 808FA WW II BSM

See photo

============================================

Since I personally knew this "Helen F. Holmes/aka Helen L. Holmes" from Oklahoma, it was a mere speculative posting in regards to the Helen Holmes of the Bloom Agency.

And although the Helen Holmes of the Bloom Agency (or at least her knowledge and records) are of significance, the following portion of the posting is of far more significance:

"In the three weeks prior to Kennedy’s trip, Holmes tried to convince Dallas citizens to put aside politics and embrace the president"

Just might be of interest as to exactly how long before 11/33/63 the Bloom Agency knew of the exact day/date that JFK would be in Dallas.

Often amazing as to exactly how easily "secrets" leak out.

"When the Citizens Council needed PR help, they turned to Sam Bloom of the Bloom Advertising Agency."

"Citizens Council president Erik Jonsson and leaders of other host organizations drafted an empathetic statement that Holmes hand delivered to the local media"

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

GEOMARINE SERVICE INTERNATIONAL INC. Business Corporation (Non-Louisiana) FLEMINGTON Inactive

Business: GEOMARINE SERVICE INTERNATIONAL INC.

Charter Number: 22600470 F

Registration Date: 4/6/1954

Domicile Address

BOROUGH

FLEMINGTON, NJ 08822

Mailing Address

5900 LEMMON AV

DALLAS, TX 75209

Principal Business Office

5900 LEMMON AV

DALLAS, TX 75209

Registered Office in Louisiana

1300 HIBERNIA BLDG

NEW ORLEANS, LA 70112

Principal Business Establishment in Louisiana

Status

Status: Inactive

Inactive Reason: WITHDREW

Qualified: 4/6/1954

Last Report Filed: N/A

Type: Business Corporation (Non-Louisiana)

Registered Agent(s)

Agent: CHARLES E. DUNBAR, JR.

Address 1: 1300 HIBERNIA BLDG

City, State, Zip: NEW ORLEANS, LA 70112

Appointment Date: 4/6/1954

Agent: SUMTER D. MARKS, JR.

Address 1: 1300 HIBERNIA BLDG

City, State, Zip: NEW ORLEANS, LA 70112

Appointment Date: 4/6/1954

Agent: LOUIS B. CLAVERIE

Address 1: 1300 HIBERNIA BLDG

City, State, Zip: NEW ORLEANS, LA 70112

Appointment Date: 4/6/1954

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

http://www.mssu.edu/seg-vm/1950.html

Headquarters for GSI's offshore exploration division, Geomarine Service International, moved from Dallas to New Orleans ..

http://www.mssu.edu/seg-vm/bio_erik_jonsson.html

Certificate No. 1 of TXN (symbol for Texas Instruments at the New York Stock Exchange) is the property of J. Erik Jonsson and has been since October 1, 1953, when trading began in TI common.

TI - chartered in 1930 as Geophysical Service Inc., and renamed in 1950, when wholly owned GSI subsidiaries were formed - would have never appeared on the ticker tapes had it not been for Jonsson's fundamental decision to involve GSI in military electronics.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

http://www.mssu.edu/seg-vm/bio_eugene_mcdermott.html

Karcher found increasing interest in petroleum development during the mid-thirties, and McDermott became president of GSI. The company was then completely reorganized in late 1941 with Eugene McDermott, H. B. Peacock, J. E. Jonsson, and Cecil Green as co-directors

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

VIGILANCE INCORPORATED Non-Profit Corporation or Co-op (Non-Louisiana) WILMINGTON Inactive

Business: VIGILANCE INCORPORATED

Charter Number: 02100760 X

Registration Date: 3/16/1951

Domicile Address

100 W 10TH ST

WILMINGTON, DE 19801

Mailing Address

100 W 10TH ST

WILMINGTON, DE 19801

Principal Business Office

100 W 10TH ST

WILMINGTON, DE 19801

Registered Office in Louisiana

Principal Business Establishment in Louisiana

Status

Status: Inactive

Inactive Reason: Action by Secretary of State

Qualified: 3/16/1951

Last Report Filed: N/A

Type: Non-Profit Corporation or Co-op (Non-Louisiana)

Registered Agent(s)

Agent: CHARLES E. DUNBAR, JR.

Address 1: 1300 HIBERNIA BLDG

City, State, Zip: NEW ORLEANS, LA 70112

Appointment Date: 3/16/1951

Agent: SUMTER D. MARKS, JR.

Address 1: 1300 HIBERNIA BLDG

City, State, Zip: NEW ORLEANS, LA 70112

Appointment Date: 3/16/1951

Agent: LOUIS B. CLAVERIE

Address 1: 1300 HIBERNIA BLDG

City, State, Zip: NEW ORLEANS, LA 70112

Appointment Date: 3/16/1951

================================================================================================

FOR AMERICA Non-Profit Corporation or Co-op (Non-Louisiana) CHICAGO Inactive

Business: FOR AMERICA

Charter Number: 02402640 X

Registration Date: 7/14/1954

Domicile Address

208 S LASALLE ST

CHICAGO, IL 60604

Mailing Address

208 S LASALLE ST

CHICAGO, IL 60604

Principal Business Office

208 S LASALLE ST

CHICAGO, IL 60604

Registered Office in Louisiana

Principal Business Establishment in Louisiana

Status

Status: Inactive

Inactive Reason: Action by Secretary of State

Qualified: 7/14/1954

Last Report Filed: N/A

Type: Non-Profit Corporation or Co-op (Non-Louisiana)

Registered Agent(s)

Agent: CHARLES E. DUNBAR, JR.

Address 1: 321 ST. CHARLES

City, State, Zip: NEW ORLEANS, LA 70130

Appointment Date: 7/14/1954

Agent: SUMTER D. MARKS, JR.

Address 1: 321 ST CHARLES

City, State, Zip: NEW ORLEANS, LA 70130

Appointment Date: 7/14/1954

Agent: LOUIS B. CLAVERIE

Address 1: 321 ST. CHARLES

City, State, Zip: NEW ORLEANS, LA 70130

Appointment Date: 7/14/1954

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sometimes, the trees often block one's view of the forest!

Anyone recall this?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

DOLLY SHOE CO., INC. Business Corporation NEW ORLEANS Inactive

Business: DOLLY SHOE CO., INC.

Charter Number: 22902190 D

Registration Date: 1/24/1955

Domicile Address

'

NEW ORLEANS, LA 70150

Mailing Address

'

NEW ORLEANS, LA 70150

Status

Status: Inactive

Inactive Reason: Action by Secretary of State

File Date: 1/24/1955

Last Report Filed: N/A

Type: Business Corporation

===============================================================================================================

GREEN WAVE CLUB Non-Profit Corporation NEW ORLEANS Inactive

Business: GREEN WAVE CLUB

Charter Number: 03606160 N

Registration Date: 9/27/1966

Domicile Address

308 CAMP ST.

NEW ORLEANS, LA 70115

Mailing Address

308 CAMP ST.

NEW ORLEANS, LA 70115

Status

Status: Inactive

Inactive Reason: Action by Secretary of State

File Date: 9/27/1966

Last Report Filed: N/A

Type: Non-Profit Corporation

Registered Agent(s)

Agent: CHARLES DUNBAR

Address 1: HIBERNIA BLDG.

City, State, Zip: NEW ORLEANS, LA 70112

Appointment Date: 9/27/1966

Agent: CHARLES ROSEN, II.

Address 1: 22K BARONNE ST.

========================================================

CONSERVATIVE POLITICAL ASSOCIATION Non-Profit Corporation NEW ORLEANS Inactive

Business: CONSERVATIVE POLITICAL ASSOCIATION

Charter Number: 03007040 N

Registration Date: 12/22/1960

Domicile Address

909 NATL BK OF COMM.

NEW ORLEANS, LA 70112

Mailing Address

909 NATL BK OF COMM.

NEW ORLEANS, LA 70112

Status

Status: Inactive

Inactive Reason: Action by Secretary of State

File Date: 12/22/1960

Last Report Filed: N/A

Type: Non-Profit Corporation

Registered Agent(s)

Agent: FERNAND F. WILLOZ III

Address 1: 1214 BOURBON ST

City, State, Zip: NEW ORLEANS, LA 70116

Appointment Date: 12/22/1960

Agent: HUBERT BADEAUX

Address 1: 8241 HICKORY ST

City, State, Zip: NEW ORLEANS, LA 70118

Appointment Date: 12/22/1960

Agent: FELIX H. LAPEYRE

Address 1: 2207 STATE ST

City, State, Zip: NEW ORLEANS, LA 70118

Appointment Date: 12/22/1960

==========================================================

THE POLITICAL LEAGUE Non-Profit Corporation NEW ORLEANS Inactive

Business: THE POLITICAL LEAGUE

Charter Number: 03300690 N

Registration Date: 2/4/1963

Domicile Address

710 PERE MARQUETTE

NEW ORLEANS, LA 70112

Mailing Address

710 PERE MARQUETTE

NEW ORLEANS, LA 70112

Status

Status: Inactive

Inactive Reason: Action by Secretary of State

File Date: 2/4/1963

Last Report Filed: N/A

Type: Non-Profit Corporation

Registered Agent(s)

Agent: HUBERT J. BADEAUX

Address 1: 8241 HICKORY ST

City, State, Zip: NEW ORLEANS, LA 70118

Appointment Date: 2/4/1963

Agent: F. D. V. DE LA BARRE

Address 1: 4122 PITT ST

City, State, Zip: NEW ORLEANS, LA 70115

Appointment Date: 2/4/1963

Registered Agent(s)

Agent: CHARLES ROSEN II

Address 1: 1801 HIBERNIA BK BD.

City, State, Zip: NEW ORLEANS, LA 70112

Appointment Date: 1/24/1955

Agent: FELIX H. LAPEYRE

Address 1: 1801 HIBERNIA BK BD.

City, State, Zip: NEW ORLEANS, LA 70112

Appointment Date: 1/24/1955

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

http://www.jfk-online.com/jpsgatguat.html

After leaving the FBI offices, BARRIOS and GATLIN met with a Mr. DUNBAR, who occasionally represents the United Fruit Co. in New Orleans. They asked for one million dollars from the United Fruit Co., in support of BARRIOS' intended revolutionary movement in Guatemala, but they were unsuccessful in obtaining any commitment.

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Yep, I've been wondering about that one for a few years. (I was going to post a larger crop and name it 'is that a gun in your pocket...' but my sence of decency prevailed). So someone else thinks the same without any prompting. That's interesting.

There's also an indication of one photo having been cropped that by the precence of the MC indicates it may have captured HDH walking to the scene from across from the terminal annexe. I think the persons that may be associated with the possible harrys, which seem to be suited, may be the ones who witnessed the assassination with HDH in his office.

edit add: because Harry said one of his secretaries was about 30 feet from the head shot I'm interested to know the occupation of all women within about that range.

edit typo

Edited by John Dolva
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Yep, I've been wondering about that one for a few years. (I was going to post a larger crop and name it 'is that a gun in your pocket...' but my sence of decency prevailed). So someone else thinks the same without any prompting. That's interesting.

Sorry, I make no claim to independent discovery. I'd been lurking here a while before joining. I couldn't find the original post here to link (IIRC, someone had been wondering if it was Zapruder in the photo), but I thought the possible appearance of Holmes in the Cancellere photo should be added to this thread.

There's also an indication of one photo having been cropped that by the precence of the MC indicates it may have captured HDH walking to the scene from across from the terminal annexe. I think the persons that may be associated with the possible harrys, which seem to be suited, may be the ones who witnessed the assassination with HDH in his office.

edit add: because Harry said one of his secretaries was about 30 feet from the head shot I'm interested to know the occupation of all women within about that range.

Interesting. Has Holmes's secretary been identified? Ever interviewed?

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Yep, I've been wondering about that one for a few years. (I was going to post a larger crop and name it 'is that a gun in your pocket...' but my sence of decency prevailed). So someone else thinks the same without any prompting. That's interesting.

Sorry, I make no claim to independent discovery. I'd been lurking here a while before joining. I couldn't find the original post here to link (IIRC, someone had been wondering if it was Zapruder in the photo), but I thought the possible appearance of Holmes in the Cancellere photo should be added to this thread.

There's also an indication of one photo having been cropped that by the precence of the MC indicates it may have captured HDH walking to the scene from across from the terminal annexe. I think the persons that may be associated with the possible harrys, which seem to be suited, may be the ones who witnessed the assassination with HDH in his office.

edit add: because Harry said one of his secretaries was about 30 feet from the head shot I'm interested to know the occupation of all women within about that range.

Interesting. Has Holmes's secretary been identified? Ever interviewed?

David, no, not to my knowledge. Which, imo, is a bit strange. There wouldn't be many to choose from.

It'd be interesting to know who the secretary was.

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Yep, I've been wondering about that one for a few years. (I was going to post a larger crop and name it 'is that a gun in your pocket...' but my sence of decency prevailed). So someone else thinks the same without any prompting. That's interesting.

Sorry, I make no claim to independent discovery. I'd been lurking here a while before joining. I couldn't find the original post here to link (IIRC, someone had been wondering if it was Zapruder in the photo), but I thought the possible appearance of Holmes in the Cancellere photo should be added to this thread.

There's also an indication of one photo having been cropped that by the precence of the MC indicates it may have captured HDH walking to the scene from across from the terminal annexe. I think the persons that may be associated with the possible harrys, which seem to be suited, may be the ones who witnessed the assassination with HDH in his office.

edit add: because Harry said one of his secretaries was about 30 feet from the head shot I'm interested to know the occupation of all women within about that range.

Interesting. Has Holmes's secretary been identified? Ever interviewed?

David, no, not to my knowledge. Which, imo, is a bit strange. There wouldn't be many to choose from.

It'd be interesting to know who the secretary was.

Some of you may be aware of the interview of the Dallas Policeman, name escapes me, who stated that two of the first persons that entered the Sixth Floor on

November 22, 1963 where with the Texas Game Management Agency.

I discovered this, it was originally posted on the Texas Game Management Agency thread

Commission Document 1283 - DPD "Dallas Police Department - General Orders"

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11678&relPageId=249

Apparently the City of Dallas had an arrangement with the Dallas County Rescue Service, at least in 1958.

Kenneth M Holmes Sr

birth May 14, 1922

death November 18, 1990

wife Norma Chupik Holmes

birth May 26, 1924

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=30859841&PIpi=26657380

Wife: Norma Chupik

Child: Kenneth M. Holmes, Jr.

Grandchildren: Jason Curtiss Holmes and Kristine Alison Holmes

As a boy, had a paper route where he delivered the Austin Statesmen newspaper to Gov. Myra "Ma" Ferguson;

Dallas County Deputy Sheriff;

1957-1952 - Chief of Dallas Emergency Corp. (Dallas Rescue Service);

State of Texas Deputy Game Warden;

3-term constable of Precinct 1, Bosque County, Texas;

Owner of Dallas Burglar Alarm Co.

Member of the IOOF

32nd Degree Mason

Burial:

Grove Hill Memorial Park

Dallas

Dallas County

Texas, USA

Plot: Odd Fellows (J-L) on first row across road from Garden Faith

Created by: Freda

Record added: Oct 25, 2008

Find A Grave Memorial# 30859841

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Interesting, Robert.

Some time ago when looking at Garland I came across an old subdivision plat that indicated a Holmes owned a number of lots in a block. I have wondered why HDH headed south when he did. Aparently the area he lived when young was suffering from a significant economic downturn.

A distribution of Holmes enterng the US during the large scale migrations tended to head south and tended to be manual labourers. (I don't know if any of that is relevant but adding it to the accumulating info that may fit in somewhere.)

___________________

It's funny how when one focuses on one thing or perspective other stuff seems to blot out until one is faced with it again and again. I missed that, Robert, as well as Toms postings on the packing room.

I must try to be more open minded or receptive to stuff that in the moment doesn't seem to fit my pre judices.

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Guest Tom Scully

After you read through the first few quote boxes in this post, isn't the self righteousness of the tone of Von Pein and Alyea, et al, starkly put into perspective?

Thanks to the Weisberg files, we learn that the FBI picked up the photos taken by Stuart L. Reed from the Dallas developer lab, so the FBI viewed and attributed those photos to Reed long before Reed ever saw them. We learn that Reed was not a young man in 1963. What do we know about him? He lived in, and retired five years later to the Panama Canal zone. Was he active duty military? In how many instances were investigators inserting themselves in the chain of custody of film from the camera, through the developer, and photo and film prints back to the photographer? Did potentially exculpatory film evidence vanish in the example of Reed's photos, or in other instances?

Harry Holmes, "odds 'n ends", what a memory he had! He boasted about his superior memory.

....Interestingly some of the best footage of the North was taken from just about where Harry's office was directly opposite the sixth floor window. He had 4 or so other people with him in his office watching the assassination, who the %%%% were they??? Harry 'can't remember'....

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=off&tbs=nws:1%2Ccdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1953%2Ccd_max%3A1953&q=%22*The+other+day+Mrs+Holmes+gave%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=%22*The+other+day+Mrs+Holmes+gave%22&gs_rfai=&psj=1&fp=bb84dc0be2ad39a5

Postal Inspector Slips Up On Detail .

Toledo Blade - Dec 24, 1953

Dallas, Tec., Dec. 24

Harry Holmes is a postal inspector and has been working for the postal department for 29 years.

The other day Mrs Holmes gave him two bundles of Christmas cards to stamp and mail One was for Dallas. friends the other for those out of the city. Mr Holmes bought stamps and mailed the cards all right but he didn't put the stamps on the cards. Some of the cards are coming back Some of his friends are paying cents due.

http://www.google.com/search?tbs=bks%3A1&tbo=1&q=sneed+%22old+time%22&btnG=Search+Books

No more silence: an oral history of the assassination of President ... - Page 366

Larry A. Sneed - 2002 - 601 pages - Preview

Harry Holmes: "...interrogators, and when you went to trial in those days, especially in federal court, you had to show any notes you took to the defense. So they got to look at every note that you had against their client. But we old-time investigators would just do it by memory. I could still quote nearly every word that boy said to this day and that's been over twenty years ago. That's the way I was trained to interrogate anybody, and so was Fritz...."

http://www.jfk-assassination.de/warren/wch/vol4/page232.php

Warren Commission Hearings: Vol. IV - Page 232

(Testimony of J. W. Fritz)

....Mr. BALL. Did you have any tape recorder?

Mr. FRITZ. No, sir; I don't have a tape recorder. We need one, if we had one at this time we could have handled these conversations far better.

Mr. BALL. The Dallas Police Department doesn't have one?

Mr. FRITZ. No, sir; I have requested one several times but so far they haven't gotten me one....

Replying to (thread titled) "Harry and the zfilm"

Lancer:

"Reporter Harry McCormack takes Sorrels to Jennifer Juniors, Inc., in the Dal-Tex Building, 501 Elm St., the office of Abraham Zapruder. Zapruder was emotionally upset; agreed to furnish a copy of the film to Sorrels with the understanding that it was strictly for official use of the Secret Service and that it would not be shown or given to any newspapers or magazines, as he expected to sell the film for as high a price as he could get for it. Mr. McCormack had offered $1,000 for it, but others were also interested.(Memo from Forrest Sorrels to Thomas Kelley)

WFAA-TV calls Eastman Kodak, which agrees to process the film right away. A police cruiser took the men to Kodak on Manor Way. There, Sorrels also met Phil Willis, there with his film for processing. Sorrels left. Dan Rather later claimed credit for arranging for the film's processing. Zapruder had 3 copies made (possibly at Jamieson). The film was previewed at the lab just after being developed. Zapruder was assured no bootlegs had been made. Sorrels later picked up two of the copies.(Trask)

After selling the original and one copy to LIFE, Zapruder seems to have retained an unexplained 4th copy, which Sorrels brought people over to view, being without his copies Nov. 23-26.(Trask)

Nov. 23: With Zapruder at the projector, the film is viewed by Richard Stolley, LIFE's Los Angeles Bureau Chief, the only reporter among a small group of Secret Service agents in a small room of Jennifer Juniors, early in the morning. Zapruder ran the film again and again as newsmen from AP and UPI and other magazines showed up. When the lights were turned on, Zapruder looked ill. Stolley convinces Zapruder to talk with him first. (Richard Stolley, 1973)"

________________________________________________________

Vince Palamera:

"The authors interviewed the following members of the

DPD: Jesse Curry, B.J. Martin, Douglas Jackson, James

Chaney, Stavis Ellis, Marion Baker, Joe M. Smith, and

Earle V. Brown. Also, Jean Hill, Bill Newman, Charles

Brehm, Ralph Yarborough, Joe H. Rich, Bill Greer, Roy

Kellerman***, Henry Gonzalez, Dean Andrews...and HARRY

D. HOLMES.

PAGE 129:

"Also on Friday evening, November 22nd, [Forrest]

Sorrels did a frame-by-frame study of the Zapruder film

in his Dallas office. According to Dallas Postal

Inspector Harry D. Holmes who was present, "...we

thumbed (through) that thing for an hour or more...push (ing)

it up one frame at a time."

PAGE 213:

"A postal inspector [Holmes] picked up a piece of skull

from the Elm St. pavement. He said it was as "...big as

the end of my finger..." Furthermore, it was one of many:

"...there was just pieces of skull and bone and

corruption all over the place..." He later discarded

it.[!!!]"

Seymour Weitzman found a "firecracker" sized skull

fragment on Elm Street which he turned over to the

Secret Service [7 H 107];

the Harper fragment; the back-of-the -head piece Sam

Kinney found lying in the rear of the limo while on the

C-130; the three pieces found in the limo:

what is going on here???

In any event, Harry Holmes is certainly unique: he had

perhaps the best vantage point, witnessing the

assassination THROUGH BINOCULARS on the fifth floor of

the Post Office Terminal Annex Building. Holmes was

previously an FBI informant and, in his capacity as

Postal Inspector, had traced the paperwork concerning

the Oswald mail order rifle and revolver and testified

about it to the Warren Commission. Holmes was present

asking questions during the final interrogation of Lee

Harvey Oswald on 11/24/63, shortly before Ruby would

silence him forever. Holmes was a friend of John

Martin, a man who also worked in the same building who

took a film on that fateful day ("Pictures of the

Pain", p. 574). And, now, we know he found a piece of

President Kennedy's skull on Elm Street---which

he then DISCARDED---and he analyzed the Zapruder film

on NOVEMBER 22, 1963!!!

Vince Palamara"

So Harry saw ("thumbed through, frame by frame") one or both of the two copies Sorrels had?

Jack Ruby had written down the name D. H. Holmes on one of these papers. They were found under the refrigerator in his apartment by the next tenant.

The H and D are transposed, but, there is little doubt in my mind that this is the same person.

Ruby also has the phone number of the Dallas Sheraton on one of these pieces of paper.

I believe the Sheraton was where the Secret Service had set up it's comand post.

It is also where one G.H.W. Bush stayed on 11/22/1863.

These papers may divulge more information if the names and numbers are checked and referenced.

Chuck

http://www.jfk-assassination.de/warren/wch/vol7/page290.php

(Testimony of Harry D. Holmes)

Mr. Belin.

Would you please state your name for the record?

Mr. Holmes.

Harry D. Holmes.

Mr. Belin.

Where do you live, Mr. Holmes?

Mr. Holmes.

1711 McManus, Dallas, Tex.

Mr. Belin.

What is your occupation?

Mr. Holmes.

Postal inspector.

Mr. Belin.

For the U.S. Post Office Department?

Mr. Holmes.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Belin.

How old are you?

Mr. Holmes.

I am 57.

Mr. Belin.

What is your educational background? Did you go to high school here?

Mr. Holmes.

I graduated from high school in Kansas City, and went 2 years to William Jewell College at Liberty, Mo. and went almost through my third rear in Kansas City. Went to dental college in Kansas City.

Mr. Belin.

Then what did you do?

Mr. Holmes.

Well, all that time I was working in the post office as a clerk, and about that time the war broke out and I went into the Postal Inspection Service in April 1942, and have been a postal inspector ever since.

Mr. Belin.

Have you been in Dallas ever since then?

Mr. Holmes.

No; I came here July 1, 1948. I have been here ever since....

Edited by Tom Scully
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