Guest Tom Scully Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 http://www.nytimes.com/1991/10/04/nyregion/william-a-shea-84-dies-the-lawyer-behind-the-mets.html?pagewanted=all&src=pmWilliam A. Shea, 84, Dies; The Lawyer Behind the Mets By DAVID MARGOLICK Published: October 04, 1991 ....At the beginning of his legal career Mr. Shea became closely associated with George V. McLaughlin, the head of Brooklyn's Democratic Party, and held several posts in the state's insurance regulatory apparatus. In 1941 he entered private practice. In the late 1950's, largely under the auspices of William J. Casey, later the director of the Central Intelligence Agency, Mr. Shea became re-acquainted with Mr. Gould, a classmate at George Washington High School who had become a prominent trial lawyer. 'Blarney and Chutzpah' The two formed the 22-lawyer firm of Shea, Gallop, Climenko & Gould in 1964...... http://www.chesslaw.com/cornellsun/obituaries.htm Wednesday, March 24, 1999 The New York Law Journal Obituary MILTON S. GOULD ...Prized Victory ....Mr. Gould was a board member of many companies he represented, including 20th Century Fox. There he fired Marilyn Monroe when she ignored the command of executives that she was too far behind on a movie to go to Madison Square Garden to sing ''Happy Birthday" to President John F. Kennedy at a celebration organized by his brother, Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy. Several years later, Mr. Gould told his partners, Robert Kennedy vetoed Mr. Gould's nomination for a federal judgeship, writing on the papers that went to President Lyndon B. Johnson, ''over my dead body.''.... http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKhonegger.htm (4) Barbara Honegger, October Surprise (1989) William Casey, CIA Director, who reportedly attended meetings in Paris, France, on October 19 and 20, 1980, with Iranian officials and agents of French intelligence to arrange an arms-for-hostages-delay deal with Iran. The morning of his first scheduled under-oath testimony before the Senate Intelligence Committee on the secret Iran initiative he was struck by seizures in his CIA headquarters office in Langley, Virginia, and underwent speech-incapacitating left brain surgery shortly thereafter. Had he lived to testify, according to life-long friend and counsel Milton Gould, Casey would have told the "entire truth." He died on May 6, 1987. http://www.nytimes.com/1994/02/07/nyregion/an-end-to-a-law-firm-that-defined-a-type.html?pagewanted=3&src=pm An End to a Law Firm That Defined a Type By JAN HOFFMAN .....While Mr. Shea flexed the political muscle of the firm, Mr. Gould groomed young litigators and continued to amass a glossy client roster that included Aristotle Onassis, Donald Trump, William J. Casey, Jack Kent Cooke, Aldo Gucci, and Leona Helmsley. .... https://www.google.com/search?q=milton+gould+william+casey&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a#q=milton+gould+william+casey&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&tbm=nws&prmd=imvnsob&source=lnt&tbs=ar:1&sa=X&psj=1&ei=DIsRT7yBKcTptgf2msDjAQ&ved=0CBMQpwUoCg&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=1e574b781106fa76&biw=1173&bih=734 Reagan Was Willing To Go To Jail For Hostages . Lodi News-Sentinel - Sep 21, 1988 He told a congressional committee he had the approval of Casey, ... of things going on I don't know about," Casey's at . torney Milton Gould said Casey told ... Testimony By Casey Disputed . Press-Courier - Jul 31, 1981 ... In a sworn affidavit that "the offering circular was prepared by William Casey and Lawrence Orbe,'' another director. Casey's lawyer, Milton Gould, ... SECOND CASE SURFACES IN CIA CHIEF'S FINANCIAL DEALINGS Pay-Per-View - Boston Globe - Jul 17, 1981 Another federal court ruling critical of CIA Director William J. Casey's financial ... Casey's attorney in New York, Milton Gould, said the CIA director, ... Honeymooners . Williamson Daily News - Jul 31, 1981 ... that "the offering circular was prepared by William Casey and Lawrence Orbe," another director. Casey's attorney, Milton Gould, has said any work Casey did ... https://www.google.com/search?q=anne+gates+joseph+ponce&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a#q=anne+gates+joseph+ponce&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=vkk&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&tbm=nws&prmd=imvnso&source=lnt&tbs=ar:1&sa=X&psj=1&ei=RY0RT8HPG4OHtwe7spTkAQ&ved=0CBMQpwUoCg&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=1e574b781106fa76&biw=1173&bih=734Anne Gates, Daughter of Navy Official, Married in Bryn Mawr... New York Times - Feb 6, 1955 Joseph Ponce of New York and St. Augustine, Fla. ... Miss Katherine C. Gates was maid of honor, and Mrs. William K. Norris matron of honor for their sister, lhe ... Defense Secretary To Eisenhower Dies . Deseret News - Mar 26, 1983 Gates leaves a wife, Millicent Anne, and three daughters, Mrs. Joseph Ponce of A toothless taste Five-monthold Jason Hupp of Silverton, Ore., ... In the 1974 New Yorker investigative article on the career of Willaim A. Shea : http://books.google.com/books?id=XePFnXzff4EC&pg=PA49&lpg=PA49&dq=%22general+battery%22+joseph+ponce&source=bl&ots=wEhiViyUk4&sig=h538bUTvWqQnzss5j579tHVNrLc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=oo0RT_aVGYi3twf2hMisAg&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22general%20battery%22%20joseph%20ponce&f=false New York Magazine - Nov 11, 1974 - Google Books Result books.google.com/books?id=XePFnXzff4EC...Vol. 7, No. 45 - 136 pages - Magazine ... Raymond E. Salvati Mark N. Kaplan Irwin M. Nathanson General Battery Corp. ... J. Deegan Jr. Joseph L. Ponce Harold U. Zerbe Diamond International Corp. https://www.google.com/search?q=international+banknote+ponce&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a#q=banknote%20%22joseph%20ponce%22&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=6qk&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&psj=1&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbo=u&tbm=bks&source=og&sa=N&tab=wp&psj=1&ei=x44RT-aMBNSHtwfYv9iBAg&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=a76f04b08dc68692&biw=1173&bih=734 The Institutional investor: Volume 11 books.google.com1977 - Snippet view ... Paul Conley Hart Schaffner & Marx Kenneth Hill Standard Oil of California John Kelsey Federal Paper Board Benjamin Lambert Hilton Hotels Frank Mansell Stanley Works James Miller Ethyl Joseph Ponce International Banknote https://www.google.com/search?q=international+banknote+ponce&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=WX5&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aunofficial&tbm=bks&source=hp&q=morgan+%22joseph+l+ponce%22&psj=1&oq=morgan+%22joseph+l+ponce%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=s&gs_upl=13634l14004l7l15149l2l2l0l0l0l0l199l313l0.2l2l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=bd6d0bec64ba6889&biw=1173&bih=734 The house of Morgan: an American banking dynasty and the rise of ... - Page 724 books.google.com Ron Chernow - 2001 - 832 pages - Preview S. Moore, Catherine Adams Morgan, Constance Morrow Morgan, Sir Jeremy Morse, Bruce Nichols, Sir Leslie O'Brien, Jane Nichols Page, Walter H. Page, Ellmore C. Patterson, the late Frances Tracy Pennoyer, Joseph L. Ponce, https://www.google.com/search?q=international+banknote+ponce&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a#q=morgan%20thomas%20s%20gates&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=FZ5&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&tbm=nws&source=lnt&tbs=ar:1&sa=X&psj=1&ei=dI8RT9uyFsHctwfc3KmHAg&ved=0CBMQpwUoCg&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=1e574b781106fa76&biw=1173&bih=734 JP MORGAN & CO. WILL INCORPORATE AS A STATE BANK; 80-Year... New York Times - Feb 16, 1940 JP Morgan Co. have decided to end the private banking partnership whose history ... H. Gates Lioyd, Edward Starr Jr. and Thomas S. Gates Jr., as a separate ... Gates Named President Of Morgan Guaranty Pay-Per-View - Hartford Courant - Aug 2, 1962 NEW YORK (AP) -- Former De-j fense Secretary Thomas S. Gates I was elected president Wednesday, of Morgan Guaranty Trust Co. of I New York, sixth largest ... Morgan Guaranty Trust Shifts Senior... New York Times ($3.95) Ex-US Aid Is President of NY Bank Chicago Tribune (Pay-Per-View) Bank Stocks Up Fractionally Los Angeles Times (Pay-Per-View) Morgan Chairman Steps Down; Gates Will Succeed Alexander... New York Times - May 6, 1965 Thomas S. Gates Jr. Chairman Directors of the Bank Name John M. Meyer Jr. as ... Mr. Alexander, who joined JP Morgan Co. in 1939, became chairman of the ... Gates Named Chairman And Meyer President... Wall Street Journal (Pay-Per-View) Joseph L. Ponce, a director of two of the corporations under the ownership/influence of William A. Shea, chief fixer, was probably brought into Morgan via his father-in-law, Thomas S. Gates, Jr., and was involved with Shea through Morgan. But the most interesting thing about Joseph L. Ponce, himself, was that he was the best friend of Jesse T. Ellington, Jr.'s brother-in-law, Anthony Widmann.: https://www.google.com/search?q=international+banknote+ponce&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=gEQ&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aunofficial&tbs=ar:1&tbm=nws&source=hp&q=keren+widmann+ponce+jesse&psj=1&oq=keren+widmann+ponce+jesse&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=s&gs_upl=377930l397978l9l398832l27l27l0l12l0l0l422l2713l1.9.4.0.1l15l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=1e574b781106fa76&biw=1173&bih=734KEREN ELLINGTOH ! TO BE WgD AY; i O Stamford Girl Chooses... New York Times - Apr 13, 1952 Miss Susan Widmann, sister oft the prospective bridegroom, willI be the maid of honor. ... 'Joseph L. Ponce of Baltimore will serve as best man. ... D.: T. and Jesse T. Ellingto!a Jr. { brothers of the bride-to-be, E.] Herbert England Jr. of Chicago;! ... Jesse "Tom" Ellington, eight years later.: https://www.google.com/search?q=international+banknote+ponce&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a#sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aunofficial&tbs=ar:1&tbm=nws&source=hp&q=tom+ellington+ernest&psj=1&oq=tom+ellington+ernest&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=s&gs_upl=128982l140291l10l141670l20l20l0l5l0l0l426l2824l1.9.3.1.1l15l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=1e574b781106fa76&biw=1173&bih=734Advertising: Campaign Aims to Sell History; Freedomland... New York Times - Jun 19, 1960 The combined publicity and advertising campaign was planned by a task force consisting of Tom Ellington and Ernest J. Byfield Jr. of Ellington, ... https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&tbo=1&q=ellington+%26+co.+ernest+byfield&btnG=Search+Books#q=ellington+%26+co.+ernest+byfield&hl=en&safe=off&tbo=1&tbm=bks&psj=1&ei=LZIRT6rIG4mCtgfT5uHqAQ&start=10&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=bd6d0bec64ba6889&biw=1173&bih=734 Radio daily-television daily: Volume 86 No cover image books.google.com 1959 - Snippet view ELLINGTON & COMPANY has named three new vice presidents. Named were Ernest Byfield, Henry Covington and Franklyn Dyson, all account executives. Byfield has been with the agency three years. Covington eight years and Dyson two.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Hagger Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 On 1/11/2005 at 6:02 PM, John Simkin said: Over the last few weeks I have been researching the Suite 8F Group, a collection of right-wing political and businessmen. The name comes from the room in the Lamar Hotel in Houston where they held their meetings. Members of the group included George Brown and Herman Brown (Brown & Root), Jesse H. Jones (multi-millionaire investor in a large number of companies and chairman of the Reconstruction Finance Corporation), Gus Wortham (American General Insurance Company), James Abercrombie (Cameron Iron Works), Hugh R. Cullen (Quintana Petroleum), William Hobby (Houston Post), William Vinson (Great Southern Life Insurance), James Elkins (American General Insurance and Pure Oil Pipe Line), Morgan J. Davis (Humble Oil), Albert Thomas (chairman of the House Appropriations Committee), Lyndon B. Johnson (Majority Leader of the Senate). John Connally, Alvin Wirtz and Edward Clark were also members of the Suite 8F Group. Suite 8F helped to coordinate the political activities of other right-wing politicians and businessmen based in the South. This included Robert Anderson (president of the Texas Mid-Continent Oil and Gas Association, Secretary of the Navy and Secretary of the Treasury), Robert Kerr (Kerr-McGee Oil Industries), Billie Sol Estes (entrepreneur in the cotton industry), Glenn McCarthy (McCarthy Oil and Gas Company), Earl E. T. Smith (U.S. Sugar Corporation), Fred Korth (Continental National Bank and Navy Secretary), Ross Sterling (Humble Oil), Sid Richardson (Texas oil millionaire), Clint Murchison (Delhi Oil), Haroldson L. Hunt (Placid Oil), Eugene B. Germany (Mustang Oil Company), Lawrence D. Bell (Bell Helicopters), William Pawley (business interests in Cuba), Gordon McLendon (KLIF), George Smathers (Finance Committee and businessman), Richard Russell (chairman of the Committee of Manufactures, Committee on Armed Forces and Committee of Appropriations), James Eastland (chairman Judiciary Committee), Benjamin Everett Jordan (chairman of the Senate Rules Committee), Fred Black (political lobbyist and Serve-U Corporation) and Bobby Baker (political lobbyist and Serve-U Corporation). What I have found out so far can be found here: http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKgroup8F.htm I would be grateful if any other members have any information on these people. I am particularly interested in the possible links with this group and the General Dynamics Corporation and the $6.5 billion contract for the TFX jet fighter. I have reason to believe that this contract played a factor in the Kennedy cover-up of the assassination. This involves an ex- FBI agent called I. B. Hale. He was head of security at General Dynamics. He was also caught placing a bug in the apartment of Judith Exner. Any help with this would be much appreciated. From 2005 ... and what do we now know? Well, for one thing the link no longer works! Second, once the list goes beyond Suite 8F it becomes quite silly in that everything and everyone on the face of the Planet is connected somewhere, somehow. But if we stick to the original topic and the claimed membership of Suite 8F which has a backbone of people associated with the Democratic Party, then I am interested and I want to know: what is the documented and authenticated source for the assertion that Suite 8F was the name of a group and that the group was comprised of the people listed? I am interesting in following leads to people and things where evidence can be provided to prove beyond reasonable doubt that certain events took place within a given time and space. I am not interested in supposition that connects everyone on the Planet to some form of conspiratorial activity. So what is the foundation for the claim that a Group met in a Suite called 8F and that it had a membership as shown by John? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 2 hours ago, Mervyn Hagger said: From 2005 ... and what do we now know? Well, for one thing the link no longer works! Second, once the list goes beyond Suite 8F it becomes quite silly in that everything and everyone on the face of the Planet is connected somewhere, somehow. But if we stick to the original topic and the claimed membership of Suite 8F which has a backbone of people associated with the Democratic Party, then I am interested and I want to know: what is the documented and authenticated source for the assertion that Suite 8F was the name of a group and that the group was comprised of the people listed? I am interesting in following leads to people and things where evidence can be provided to prove beyond reasonable doubt that certain events took place within a given time and space. I am not interested in supposition that connects everyone on the Planet to some form of conspiratorial activity. So what is the foundation for the claim that a Group met in a Suite called 8F and that it had a membership as shown by John? Mervyn, All of John Simkin's Sparatcus links that contain the "schoolnet" in the URL are broken. They lost that domain. Those pages can be rendered by removing the schoolnet element end editing as follows, or searching the subject and including Spartacus. http://spartacus-educational.com/JFKgroup8F.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Hagger Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 54 minutes ago, Michael Clark said: Mervyn, All of John Simkin's Sparatcus links that contain the "schoolnet" in the URL are broken. They lost that domain. Those pages can be rendered by removing the schoolnet element end editing as follows, or searching the subject and including Spartacus. http://spartacus-educational.com/JFKgroup8F.htm Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Hagger Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Michael, I went over to John's new linked page and read his comments which he last updated in 2014. Unfortunately John did not answer the questions I previously raised when I revived this thread with his original comments. "In 1932 several politicians from Texas assumed important positions of power in Washington. John Nance Garner became Speaker of the House of Representatives. Texans also became the chairmen of very important committees. This included Samuel Rayburn (Interstate and Foreign Commerce), Joseph J. Mansfield (Rivers and Harbors Committee), Hatton W. Sumners (Judiciary Committee), Marvin Jones (Agriculture Committee) and Fritz Lanham (Public Buildings and Grounds Committee)." Okay so far ... "In 1932 Franklin D. Roosevelt selected John Nance Garner as his running mate and on 8th November was elected as Vice President of the United States. Garner was able to use this position to promote the political careers of other Texans. He recommended that Jesse H. Jones should become chairman of the Reconstruction Finance Corporation (RFC). This became a crucial post in Roosevelt's New Deal policies and Jones had the responsibility of directing billions of dollars to help support American industry. Jones also took control of the Federal Loan Agency, the Federal Housing Authority and the Home Owners Loan Corporation. Such was his power that Jones was described as a 'fourth branch of government'." Okay so far ... "Samuel Rayburn as chairman of the Interstate and Foreign Commerce Committee, played an important role in the establishing the and the Federal Communications Commission. In 1937 Rayburn became majority leader and held the post for the next three years." Okay, but we have jumped from 1932 to 1937 and still we know nothing about the Suite 8F Group ... "Several of these Texas politicians became involved in the Suite 8F Group, a collection of right-wing businessmen. The name comes from the room in the Lamar Hotel in Houston where they held their meetings." And how exactly did that happen? Why are they called "a collection of right-wing businessmen"? I now learn where the name came from, but I know nothing about how the Group was supposedly formed. "Members of the group included George Brown and Herman Brown (Brown & Root), Jesse H. Jones (multi-millionaire investor in a large number of organizations and chairman of the Reconstruction Finance Corporation), Gus Wortham (American General Insurance Company), James Abercrombie (Cameron Iron Works), Hugh R. Cullen (Quintana Petroleum), William Hobby (Governor of Texas and owner of the Houston Post), William Vinson (Great Southern Life Insurance), James Elkins (American General Insurance and Pure Oil Pipe Line), Morgan J. Davis (Humble Oil), Albert Thomas (chairman of the House Appropriations Committee), Lyndon B. Johnson (Majority Leader of the Senate) and John Connally (Texas politician). Alvin Wirtz, Thomas Corcoran, Homer Thornberry and Edward Clark, were four lawyers who also worked closely with the Suite 8F Group.'" What is the source of this assertion? Now we are back to the "right-wing" tag .... "Suite 8F helped to coordinate the political activities of other right-wing politicians and businessmen based in the South. This included Robert Anderson (president of the Texas Mid-Continent Oil and Gas Association, Secretary of the Navy and Secretary of the Treasury), Robert Kerr (Kerr-McGee Oil Industries), Billie Sol Estes (entrepreneur in the cotton industry), Glenn McCarthy (McCarthy Oil and Gas Company), Earl E. T. Smith (U.S. Sugar Corporation), Fred Korth (Continental National Bank and Navy Secretary), Ross Sterling (Humble Oil), Sid Richardson (Texas oil millionaire), Clint Murchison (Delhi Oil), Haroldson L. Hunt (Placid Oil), Eugene B. Germany (Mustang Oil Company), David Harold Byrd (Byrd Oil Corporation), Lawrence D. Bell (Bell Helicopters), William Pawley (business interests in Cuba), Gordon McLendon (KLIF), George Smathers (Finance Committee and businessman), Richard Russell (chairman of the Committee of Manufactures, Committee on Armed Forces and Committee of Appropriations), James Eastland (chairman Judiciary Committee), Benjamin Everett Jordan (chairman of the Senate Rules Committee), Fred Black (political lobbyist and Serve-U Corporation) and Bobby Baker (political lobbyist and Serve-U Corporation)." This is getting really silly. None of this would be acceptable in either an academic dissertation or as evidence filed in a court of law. It is Wikipedia nonsense. "One of the major concerns of this group was to protect the interests of the Texas oil industry. The most prolific oil reserves in the United States was not discovered until October, 1930. The East Texas Oilfield included Rusk, Upshur, Gregg and Smith counties. The first small company to find oil in East Texas was Deep Rock Oil Company. The first investor to take advantage of the discovery was Haroldson L. Hunt. He bought 5,000 acres of leases and an eighty-acre tract for $1,335,000. Hunt soon owned 500 wells in East Texas." Now, without explaining who formed the Group, nor how it is known that these cited names were members of it, we are told the following ... "The discovery of oil in Texas made a small group of men a great deal of money. They decided to join together in order to maintain their profits. This included strategies for keeping the price of oil as high as possible. The rich East Texas field caused problems as it initially caused the price of oil to fall." That is all very well, but what does it have to do with the underlying questions about who formed Suite 8F Group, and who was a member, and what was its purpose? "Ross Sterling, the former owner of Humble Oil, was elected governor of Texas and took office on 20th January, 1931. The Texas Railroad Commission, under the control of the large oil producers, attempted to limit the production of oil (prorationing) in the new fields of East Texas. On 31st July, 1931, the federal court in Houston sided with a group of independent oil producers and ruled that the Texas Railroad Commission had no right to impose prorationing." Now we are really wandering off topic ... "Large oil companies in Texas such as Humble Oil were in favour of prorationing and Sterling came under great pressure to intervene. On 16th August, 1931, Sterling declared martial law in Rusk, Upshur, Gregg and Smith counties. In his proclamation Sterling declared that the independent oil producers in these counties were 'in a state of insurrection' and that the 'reckless and illegal exploitation of (oil) must be stopped until such time as the said resources may be properly conserved and developed under the protection of the civil authorities'." That is followed by more off-topic rhetoric ... "Sterling now ordered the commander of the Texas National Guard, Jacob F. Wolters, to "without delay shut down each and every producing crude oil well and/or producing well of natural gas". Wolters who was the chief lobbyist of several major oil companies in Texas, readily agreed to this action. Wolters used more than a thousand troops to make sure that the oil wells in East Texas ceased production. The Texas Railroad Commission was now in firm control of the world's most prolific oil fields. It now controlled the supply of the oil in the United States. As a result, the price of oil began to increase." What about the original topic? "When Franklin D. Roosevelt gained power he attempted to push a bill through Congress that would give his Secretary of the Interior, Harold Ickes, the authority to regulate domestic oil production. However, Sam Rayburn, a politician from Texas, as chairman of the House Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce, was able to kill the bill. It was left to another powerful Texan, Tom Connally, to sponsor the Connally Hot Oil Act. This gave the Texas Railroad Commission the authority to proration oil." The original topic being buried ... "Texas oil millionaires also fought hard to maintain its tax concessions. The most important of these was the oil depletion allowance. It was first introduced in 1913 and allowed producers to use the depletion allowed to deduct just 5 per cent of their income and the deduction was limited to the original cost of their property. However, in 1926 the depletion allowance was increased to 27.5 per cent." Now we switch topics to a rant against FDR ... "In the 1930s this group were very hostile to Franklin D. Roosevelt and the New Deal. Edward A. Clark arranged for a meeting to take place between Herman Brown and Lyndon B. Johnson. During the meeting Brown complained about the cost of New Deal projects. According to Robert Caro, Johnson said to Brown: 'What are you worried about? It’s not coming out of your pocket. Any money that’s spent down here on New Deal projects, the East is paying for.'” The topic switches again ... "Brown and Root now grew rapidly as a result of obtaining a large number of municipal and federal government projects. This included the Marshall Ford Dam on the Colorado River. This was worth $27,000,000. In a letter written to Lyndon B. Johnson, George Brown, admitted the company was set to make a $2,000,000 profit out of the deal. In 1940 the company won a $90 million contract to build the Naval Air Station at Corpus Christi." Now we have a reference to the topic with a comment about another individual ... "Jesse H. Jones was another important figure in this group. He was chairman of Roosevelt's Reconstruction Finance Corporation (RFC). This became a crucial post in Roosevelt's New Deal policies and Jones had the responsibility of directing billions of dollars to help support American industry. Such was his power that Jones was described as a 'fourth branch of government'." But that leads into more name-dropping ... "Jones worked closely with John Nance Garner. The men were both right-wing conservatives and did not always approve of Roosevelt's more progressive policies. However, Jones helped to finance many public works programs. Jones also took control of the Federal Loan Agency, the Federal Housing Authority and the Home Owners Loan Corporation." What about the subject? Now we have zoomed from the 1930s into 1940 ... "In 1940 Jones became Secretary of Commerce. However, he retained his post as Federal Loan Administrator. Congress granted Jones and the Reconstruction Finance Corporation the power to distribute funds in order to prepare for war. This included the creation of the Defense Plant Corporation and the Defense Supplies Corporation. During the Second World War Jones was responsible for the spending of 20 billion dollars." So what? Now we are taken into 1942 and still the basic questions remain unanswered ... "In 1942 George Brown and Herman Brown established the Brown Shipbuilding Company on the Houston Ship Channel. Over the next three years the company built 359 ships and employed 25,000 people. This was worth $27,000,000. This contract was eventually worth $357,000,000. Yet until they got the contract, Brown & Root had never built a single ship of any type." It gets worse ... "Another businessman who did very well out of the war was Lawrence D. Bell, the head of the Bell Aircraft Corporation. This included the production of the Bell P-39 Airacobra, the P-39D and the P-59 Airacomet, America's first jet-powered airplane." Now WWII is over and we are into 1948 with still no answers ... "After the war the company concentrated on helicopters and in Bell had the great idea of making a 47-B available for Lyndon B. Johnson during his 1948 election campaign. As Robert Bryce the author of Cronies: Oil, the Bushes, and the Rise of Texas, America's Superstate has pointed out: "With a helicopter, Johnson could land right in the center of town and give a speech right on the landing spot, eliminating the need for time-wasting car trips and from the airstrip." Bell decided to move his company from New York State to Fort Worth, Texas. Johnson, who became a member of the Naval affairs Committee, was able to help his friend sell helicopters to the United States Military." Now its 1954! "In 1954 Paul Douglas began making speeches in the Senate about the need for tax reforms in order to eliminate special privileges such as the oil depletion allowance. Douglas attempted to join the important Finance Committee. He held seniority priority and should have been given one of the two available seats on the committee. Johnson had to apply considerable pressure on Harry Byrd, the chairman of the Finance Committee, to stop this happening." ... followed by 1955 ... "In 1955 Lyndon B. Johnson became majority leader of the Senate. Johnson and Richard Russell now had complete control over all the important Senate committees. This was proving to be an expensive business. The money used to bribe these politicians came from Russell’s network of businessmen. These were men usually involved in the oil and armaments industries." and more off-topic comments ... "According to John Connally, large sums of money was given to Johnson throughout the 1950s for distribution to his political friends. “I handled inordinate amounts of cash”. A great deal of this came from oilmen. Cornel Wilde worked for the Gulf Oil Corporation. In 1959 he took over from David Searls as chief paymaster to Johnson. He testified that he made regular payments of $10,000 to Walter Jenkins." Naturally this ramble takes us into 1956 ... "In 1956 there was another attempt to end all federal price control over natural gas. Sam Rayburn played an important role in getting it through the House of Representatives. This is not surprising as according to Connally, he alone had been responsible for a million and a half dollars of lobbying." ... with more and more off-topic commentary ... "Paul Douglas and William Langer led the fight against the bill. Their campaigned was helped by an amazing speech by Francis Case of South Dakota. Up until this time Case had been a supporter of the bill. However, he announced that he had been offered a $25,000 bribe by the Superior Oil Company to guarantee his vote. As a man of principal, he thought he should announce this fact to the Senate. Lyndon B. Johnson responded by claiming that Case had himself come under pressure to make this statement by people who wanted to retain federal price controls. Johnson argued: “In all my twenty-five years in Washington I have never seen a campaign of intimidation equal to the campaign put on by the opponents of this bill.” Johnson pushed on with the bill and it was eventually passed by 53 votes to 38. However, three days later, Dwight D. Eisenhower, vetoed the bill on grounds of immoral lobbying. Eisenhower confided in his diary that this had been “the most flagrant kind of lobbying that has been brought to my attention”. He added that there was a “great stench around the passing of this bill” and the people involved were “so arrogant and so much in defiance of acceptable standards of propriety as to risk creating doubt among the American people concerning the integrity of governmental processes”. Senators called for an investigation into the lobbying of the oil industry by Thomas Hennings, the chairman of the subcommittee on Privileges and Elections. Johnson was unwilling to allow a senator not under his control to look into the matter. Instead he set up a select committee chaired by Walter F. George of Georgia, a member of the Southern Caucus. Johnson had again exposed himself as being in the pay of the oil industry. Drew Pearson of The Washington Post picked up on this story and wrote a series of articles about Lyndon B. Johnson and the oil industry. Pearson claimed that Johnson was the “real godfather of the bill”. Pearson explored Johnson’s relationship with George Brown and Herman Brown. He reported on the large sums of money that had been flowing from Brown & Root, the “big gas pipeline company” to Johnson. He also referred to the large government contracts that the company had obtained during the Second World War. Pearson also quoted a Senate report that pointed out there was “no room for a general contractor like Brown & Root on Federal projects”. Nevertheless, Johnson had helped them win several contracts including one to build air-naval bases in Spain.” Johnson was now in serious trouble and sought a private meeting with Pearson. He offered the journalist a deal, if Pearson dropped the investigation, he would support Estes Kefauver, in the forthcoming primaries. Pearson surprisingly accepted this deal. He wrote in his diary: “I figured I might do that much for Estes (Kefauver). This is the first time I’ve ever made a deal like this, and I feel unhappy about it. With the Presidency of the United States at stake, maybe it’s justified, maybe not – I don’t know.” The decision by Dwight D. Eisenhower to veto this bill angered the oil industry. Once again Sid Richardson and Clint Murchison began negotiations with Eisenhower. In June, 1957, Eisenhower agreed to appoint their man, Robert Anderson, as his Secretary of the Treasury. According to Robert Sherrill in his book, The Accidental President: 'A few weeks later Anderson was appointed to a cabinet committee to "study" the oil import situation; out of this study came the present-day program which benefits the major oil companies, the international oil giants primarily, by about one billion dollars a year.'" ... and eventually we get to 1960 and John F. Kennedy ... "During the 1960 presidential election John F. Kennedy gave his support for the oil depletion allowance. In October, 1960, he said that he appreciated 'the value and importance of the oil-depletion allowance. I realize its purpose and value... The oil-depletion allowance has served us well.' On the advice of Lyndon B. Johnson, Kennedy appointed John Connally as Secretary of the Navy. This has an important post as it controlled a great deal of federal spending, including the contract to provide oil to the US Navy. When Connally became Governor of Texas, Johnson arranged for fellow Texan, Fred Korth, to become the new Navy Secretary." Now its 1962 ... "However, two years later, Kennedy decided to take on the oil industry. On 16th October, 1962, Kennedy was able to persuade Congress to pass an act that removed the distinction between repatriated profits and profits reinvested abroad. While this law applied to industry as a whole, it especially affected the oil companies. It was estimated that as a result of this legislation, wealthy oilmen saw a fall in their earnings on foreign investment from 30 per cent to 15 per cent." ... which leads us into 1963 and the assassination of JFK ... "On 17th January, 1963, President Kennedy presented his proposals for tax reform. This included relieving the tax burdens of low-income and elderly citizens. Kennedy also claimed he wanted to remove special privileges and loopholes. He even said he wanted to do away with the oil depletion allowance. It is estimated that the proposed removal of the oil depletion allowance would result in a loss of around $300 million a year to Texas oilmen. In November, 1963, Fred Korth was forced to resign as a result of accusations of corruption following the award of a $7 billion contract for a fighter plane, the TFX, to General Dynamics, a company based in Texas. Johnson could not afford to appoint another Texan in this post. Instead he selected Paul Nitze, the husband of Phyllis Pratt, a Standard Oil heiress." But soon we are zipping into the 1970s ... "The assassination of John F. Kennedy brought an end to this proposal to bring an end to the oil depletion allowance. The Suite 8F Group also did very well out of the escalation of the Vietnam War. They formed a new company called RMK-BRJ to obtain these contracts. This included Halliburton who took over Brown & Root in 1962. These contracts included building jet runways, dredging channels for ships, hospitals, prisons, communications facilities, and building American bases from Da Nang to Saigon. RMK-BRJ did 97% of the construction work in Vietnam. The other 3% went to local Vietnamese contractors. Between 1965 and 1972 Brown & Root (Halliburton) alone obtained revenues of $380 million from its work in Vietnam. Senator Abraham Ribicoff of Connecticut attempted to expose this scandal. He claimed that millions was being paid in kickbacks. An investigation by the General Accounting Office discovered that by 1967 RMK-BRJ had “lost” $120 million. However, GAO never managed to identify the people obtaining these kickbacks. Another company associated with the Suite 8F Group also did well out of the Vietnam War. Bell Helicopter Corporation began producing the UH-1. It could climb 2,000 feet per minute and could fly at 125 miles per hour for about three hours. It could carry nine fully equipped soldiers and a crew of four. By 1969 Bell Helicopter Corporation was selling nearly $600 million worth of helicopters to the United States Military. According to Robert Bryce: "Vietnam made Bell Helicopters". Anti-war protesters decided that George Brown was the mastermind behind this corruption. Demonstrations against him took place everywhere Brown went. It got so bad that Brown advised Lyndon B. Johnson to withdraw from Vietnam. Brown told Johnson that if he did not do this, the war would destroy both men. It did destroy Johnson but Brown survived the protests." But eventually we get back to the Suite 8F Group ... "Johnson’s resignation as president was a body blow to the Suite 8F group. However, they had made preparations and John Connally had already got Richard Nixon involved with the group. He arranged for Nixon to meet fellow members at his ranch in Texas. This resulted in Connally becoming Secretary of the Treasury. However, they were not able to obtain the success that Johnson achieved in the 1950s and 1960s. The main reason for this was that they were no longer able to control the chairmanship of the important Senate committees." After all that, what have I learned? Nothing. You started this thread John, and you directed me to the site with all of this text. However, you never answered the most basic of questions which are raised at the beginning of this review! I call your recital obfuscation gone wild. However, I still would like to know the answers to the questions I raised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 From Wikipedia... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suite_8F_Group Suite 8F Group Suite 8F Group The Suite 8F Group, also referred to as the 8F Crowd, was a network of politically active businessman in Texas from the 1930s into the 1960s.[1] "Suite 8F" refers to Herman Brown's Suite at the Lamar Hotel (demolished) in Houston, Texas. Herman Brown, one of the co-founders of the construction firm Brown and Root, made his primary home in Austin until 1948. With the company headquarters in Houston, Brown typically traveled from Austin once per week, then stayed at his room at the Lamar for a few days. Yet other members of his family stayed there as well. Gus Wortham, another member of the group, lived in the room next door, 7F.[2] Herman Brown, and his brother, George R. Brown, used their suite in the Lamar Hotel as a social, business, and political club. They planned and discussed events as varied as hunting and racing, pipelines and steel plants, and philanthropy and political candidates. James A. Elkins, a Houston lawyer and banker, wielded great influence and gained a reputation as a deal maker. For example, one friend credited Elkins for facilitating the sale of local radio station. Sometimes the group formed a consensus around a political candidate, then supported him as a group. For example, the group backed Oscar Holcombe, Sam Rayburn, and the first two campaigns of Franklin Delano Roosevelt for President of the United States.[2] The name comes from the room in the Lamar Hotel in Houston, Texas where they held their meetings.[1] The room was reported to have been permanently rented to and paid by Brown and Root.[1] According to Texas Monthly, the 8F Crowd had gained "unequaled influence in state and national government" after the end World War IIwhen George R. Brown, Gus Wortham, and Charles Francis of Vinson & Elkins founded Texas Eastern.[1] The group was reported to exercise leverage over Big Oil.[1] The 8F Crowd had connections to various media outlets including the Houston Chronicle, the Houston Post, television station KPRC, and radio stations KPRC and KTRK-TV#History.[1] Contents MembershipEdit The following individuals are reported to have been members to the Suite 8F Group: George and Herman Brown, co-founders of Brown and Root[1] Jesse H. Jones, owner of Houston Chronicle and the Houston Post[1] James A. Elkins[1] Gus Wortham[1] Lyndon B. Johnson, President of the United States[1] Sam Rayburn, Speaker of the United States House of Representatives[1] John Connally, Governor of Texas[1] Walter Mischer[1] James Abercrombie[2] of the Cameron Iron Works Hugh Roy Cullen[2] of Quintana Petroleum Texas Governor William Hobby[2] William Vinson, Great Southern Life Insurance[citation needed] Morgan J. Davis, of Humble Oil[citation needed] Albert Thomas,[3] chairman of the House Appropriations Committee, Subcommittee on Defense Alvin Wirtz, Thomas Corcoran, Homer Thornberry and Edward Clark, were four lawyers who also worked closely with the Suite 8F Group.[citation needed] Suite 8F helped to coordinate the political activities of other right-wing politicians and businessmen based in the South; these included Robert B. Anderson, president of the Texas Mid-Continent Oil and Gas Association, Secretary of the Navy and Secretary of the Treasury; Robert Kerr of Kerr-McGee Oil Industries; Billie Sol Estes, an entrepreneur in the cotton industry; Glenn McCarthy of McCarthy Oil and Gas Company; Earl E. T. Smith, of U.S. Sugar Corporation; Fred Korth, Continental National Bank and Navy Secretary; Ross Sterling of Humble Oil; Texas oil magnates Sid Richardson and Clint Murchison, Sr., H. L. Hunt of Placid Oil; Eugene B. Germany (Mustang Oil Company), David Harold Byrd, chairman of Byrd Oil Corporation; Lawrence D. Bell, of Bell Helicopter; William D. Pawley (business interests in Cuba), Senators George Smathers, Richard Russell, James Eastland, Benjamin Everett Jordan; and lobbyists Fred Black and Bobby Baker, also affiliated with the Serve-U Corporation.[citation needed] ReferencesEdit ^ a b c d e f g h i j k l m n Hurt III, Harry (April 1976). "The Most Powerful Texans". Texas Monthly. Austin, Texas: Mediarex Communications Corporation. 4 (4): 73. ISSN 0148-7736. Retrieved December 4, 2014. ^ a b c d e Marguerite Johnston (1991). Houston: The Unknown City, 1836—1946. College Station: Texas A & M University Press. p. 385-386. ^ Eric Berger (14 September 2013). "A worthy endeavor: How Albert Thomas won Houston NASA's flagship center". Houston Chronicle. Retrieved 16 October 2017. Dan Briody, The Halliburton Agenda: The Politics of Oil and Money Last edited 6 months ago by Oldsanfelipe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Hagger Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Michael Clark said: From Wikipedia... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suite_8F_Group Suite 8F Group Suite 8F Group The Suite 8F Group, also referred to as the 8F Crowd, was a network of politically active businessman in Texas from the 1930s into the 1960s.[1] "Suite 8F" refers to Herman Brown's Suite at the Lamar Hotel (demolished) in Houston, Texas. Herman Brown, one of the co-founders of the construction firm Brown and Root, made his primary home in Austin until 1948. With the company headquarters in Houston, Brown typically traveled from Austin once per week, then stayed at his room at the Lamar for a few days. Yet other members of his family stayed there as well. Gus Wortham, another member of the group, lived in the room next door, 7F.[2] Herman Brown, and his brother, George R. Brown, used their suite in the Lamar Hotel as a social, business, and political club. They planned and discussed events as varied as hunting and racing, pipelines and steel plants, and philanthropy and political candidates. James A. Elkins, a Houston lawyer and banker, wielded great influence and gained a reputation as a deal maker. For example, one friend credited Elkins for facilitating the sale of local radio station. Sometimes the group formed a consensus around a political candidate, then supported him as a group. For example, the group backed Oscar Holcombe, Sam Rayburn, and the first two campaigns of Franklin Delano Roosevelt for President of the United States.[2] The name comes from the room in the Lamar Hotel in Houston, Texas where they held their meetings.[1] The room was reported to have been permanently rented to and paid by Brown and Root.[1] According to Texas Monthly, the 8F Crowd had gained "unequaled influence in state and national government" after the end World War IIwhen George R. Brown, Gus Wortham, and Charles Francis of Vinson & Elkins founded Texas Eastern.[1] The group was reported to exercise leverage over Big Oil.[1] The 8F Crowd had connections to various media outlets including the Houston Chronicle, the Houston Post, television station KPRC, and radio stations KPRC and KTRK-TV#History.[1] Contents MembershipEdit The following individuals are reported to have been members to the Suite 8F Group: George and Herman Brown, co-founders of Brown and Root[1] Jesse H. Jones, owner of Houston Chronicle and the Houston Post[1] James A. Elkins[1] Gus Wortham[1] Lyndon B. Johnson, President of the United States[1] Sam Rayburn, Speaker of the United States House of Representatives[1] John Connally, Governor of Texas[1] Walter Mischer[1] James Abercrombie[2] of the Cameron Iron Works Hugh Roy Cullen[2] of Quintana Petroleum Texas Governor William Hobby[2] William Vinson, Great Southern Life Insurance[citation needed] Morgan J. Davis, of Humble Oil[citation needed] Albert Thomas,[3] chairman of the House Appropriations Committee, Subcommittee on Defense Alvin Wirtz, Thomas Corcoran, Homer Thornberry and Edward Clark, were four lawyers who also worked closely with the Suite 8F Group.[citation needed] Suite 8F helped to coordinate the political activities of other right-wing politicians and businessmen based in the South; these included Robert B. Anderson, president of the Texas Mid-Continent Oil and Gas Association, Secretary of the Navy and Secretary of the Treasury; Robert Kerr of Kerr-McGee Oil Industries; Billie Sol Estes, an entrepreneur in the cotton industry; Glenn McCarthy of McCarthy Oil and Gas Company; Earl E. T. Smith, of U.S. Sugar Corporation; Fred Korth, Continental National Bank and Navy Secretary; Ross Sterling of Humble Oil; Texas oil magnates Sid Richardson and Clint Murchison, Sr., H. L. Hunt of Placid Oil; Eugene B. Germany (Mustang Oil Company), David Harold Byrd, chairman of Byrd Oil Corporation; Lawrence D. Bell, of Bell Helicopter; William D. Pawley (business interests in Cuba), Senators George Smathers, Richard Russell, James Eastland, Benjamin Everett Jordan; and lobbyists Fred Black and Bobby Baker, also affiliated with the Serve-U Corporation.[citation needed] ReferencesEdit ^ a b c d e f g h i j k l m n Hurt III, Harry (April 1976). "The Most Powerful Texans". Texas Monthly. Austin, Texas: Mediarex Communications Corporation. 4 (4): 73. ISSN 0148-7736. Retrieved December 4, 2014. ^ a b c d e Marguerite Johnston (1991). Houston: The Unknown City, 1836—1946. College Station: Texas A & M University Press. p. 385-386. ^ Eric Berger (14 September 2013). "A worthy endeavor: How Albert Thomas won Houston NASA's flagship center". Houston Chronicle. Retrieved 16 October 2017. Dan Briody, The Halliburton Agenda: The Politics of Oil and Money Last edited 6 months ago by Oldsanfelipe Yes, but again, while I know where the hotel was (I lived in Houston), and I know who Brown and Root are, none of that gets to the basic questions I raised. I know it sounds crass, but I might just as well respond: so? So what? What does any of that have to do with anything? John was trying to imply a cause and effect involving Suite 8F Group, but in fact he threw together a kitchen sink Wikipedia presentation which is neither scholarly, nor is it of any use in academia, and it certainly would not fly as evidence in a court of law. Wikipedia is one the most useless and unreliable sources of information and anyone citing it in an academic paper is looked upon with scorn, unless the citation is so peculiar that it will stand up to scrutiny. Edited April 7, 2018 by Mervyn Hagger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Mervyn Hagger said: Yes, but again, while I know where the hotel was (I lived in Houston), and I know who Brown and Root are, none of that gets to the basic questions I raised. I know it sounds crass, but I might just as well respond: so? So what? What does any of that have to do with anything? John was trying to imply a cause and effect involving Suite 8F Group, but in fact he threw together a kitchen sink Wikipedia presentation which is neither scholarly, nor is it of any use in academia, and it certainly would not fly as evidence in a court of law. Well, Mervyn, there are a few people who really concentrate on evidence that can be used in court, and that will stand-up in court. I have a lot of respect for some of those people; Bill Kelly comes to mind. Yet, there is no chance, IMO, that the assassination case regarding JFK will ever come to a court room. Does that mean that information and observations should not be gathered, documented and shared? A few people, Jason Ward comes to mind, ridicule all inquiry that does not revolve evidence that can stand up in court. Likewise, Mervyn, I am seeing you as coming from the same mindset. I will continue to gather, share and comment on fragments of information that fill-out the story of why and how JFK was killed, no matter how speculative or irrelevant or whether it lacks forensic value, in your opinion or Jason's or anyone else's. To suggest that we limit our inquiry to a paradigm that you would set is absurd and insulting. John has gathered a great deal of information and presented it for your consideration. He built this forum so you, and all of us, can debate the JFK assassination, similar events and many other topics. You are not satisfied with his treatment of the Suite 8F group. I get that. Perhaps you should put together a treatment that answers your questions and present it here, for ridicule, criticism, praise, debate or come what may. I am appreciative of John's efforts. Lasty, your commentary doesn't even rise to a level of literary criticism. You are simply ranting, saying "so what?". John did not put this and other Spartacus entry/entries together to answer your questions. If you are going to address all of his posts and Spartacus entries in a similar fashion, I would guess that your going to come down with some muscle memory affliction or Carpal Tunnel Syndrome as you copy and paste: "so what?" and "answer MY questions". Perhaps you would be better off composing your own analysis and doing your own research. Mr. Simkin's has gotten you off to a good start. Edited April 7, 2018 by Michael Clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mervyn Hagger Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Michael Clark said: Well, Mervyn, there are a few people who really concentrate on evidence that can be used in court, and that will stand-up in court. I have a lot of respect for some of those people; Bill Kelly comes to mind. Yet, there is no chance, IMO, that the assassination case regarding JFK will ever come to a court room. Does that mean that information and observations should not be gathered, documented and shared? A few people, Jason Ward comes to mind, ridicule all inquiry that does not revolve evidence that can stand up in court. Likewise, Mervyn, I am seeing you as coming from the same mindset. I will continue to gather, share and comment on fragments of information that fill-out the story of why and how JFK was killed, no matter how speculative or irrelevant or whether it lacks forensic value, in your opinion or Jason's or anyone else's. To suggest that we limit our inquiry to a paradigm that you would set is absurd and insulting. John has gathered a great deal of information and presented it for your consideration. He built this forum so you, and all of us, can debate the JFK assassination, similar events and many other topics. You are not satisfied with his treatment of the Suite 8F group. I get that. Perhaps you should put together a treatment that answers your questions and present it here, for ridicule, criticism, praise, debate or come what may. I am appreciative of John's efforts. Lasty, your commentary doesn't even rise to a level of literary criticism. You are simply ranting, saying "so what?". John did not put this and other Spartacus entry/entries together to answer your questions. If you are going to address all of his posts and Spartacus entries in a similar fashion, I would guess that your going to come down with some muscle memory affliction or Carpal Tunnel Syndrome as you copy and paste: "so what?" and "answer MY questions". Perhaps you would be better off composing your own analysis and doing your own research. Mr. Simkin's has gotten you off to a good start. Thank you Michael for your analysis. You are correct that I do appreciate Jason's approach, and that seems to be because he has been exposed to the rigors of peer review in an academic environment where Wikipedia is laughed to scorn. I am engaged in a major research project with several other people who have and who continue to poke holes in my proposed hypotheses, and I thank them, review the gaps in my linked knowledge and move on. Sometimes people can get brutal, but we don't fall out. We learn and move on. So thank you for taking time to evaluate my review of John's explanation. If you follow my several explanations on this Board as to how I became involved in this subject, you will know that my approach is a little different. If I was subjected to endless prattle about "I think this" or "I think that", I would leave immediately. Thankfully people like Paul and Jason are present and I get the impression that they are sticking to the issues. Jason has recently raised a very interesting line of enquiry concerning two DPD officers and their actions on November 22, 1963. Unfortunately I do not find John's work in this instance to be of much help, yet he was the one who began this thread - years ago. So if the answers are on this thread and I have overlooked them, I would think that you would be only too happy to show me where and when these answers first appeared. Alas, I do not think they are here, but a lot of time-wasting speculation is here. As for the court of law approach, that stricture is similar to academia and that is the 'court' that I have previously written for, although I am also freelance investigative journalist, but my current project is working on a series of books in which the events of November 22, 1963 do play a part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 (edited) Hello again Mervyn, With regard to Ward and Trejo, I won't respond as it is off-topic. Thanks for accepting my take on your analysis of John's thread, which is the subject at hand. As far as directing you to where your questions might have been answered in this thread, I have to take a pass. I just stopped-in to answer your question regarding the unfortunate situation wherein John's Spartacus links have been broken, directed you to the page, showed you how to reach those pages in the future and offered you some further information on the subject at hand with a quick copy and paste from Wikipedia. I am not well read on the Suite 8F group and I am not inclined to dive into this subject today. Cheers, Michael Edited April 7, 2018 by Michael Clark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvin Ye Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 Pete Brewton stated in his book that George HW Bush was member of a small circle of powerful Texas businessmen who have done business with the Mafia and enjoyed the covert assistance of the CIA. It is obvious that this small circle of powerful Texas businessmen is actually Suite 8F group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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