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The definitive interview of Harry Holmes is in the book No More Silence, after I saw this thread had been bumped I went back to see if there was anything I had overlooked. And there was something I had overlooked that was so glaring that I was embarrassed I hadn't noticed it. Holmes, in addition to watching the Plaza at the time of the assassination through binoculars had an open line to Washington.

If that isn't a smoking gun, I don't understand what the word means. Someone should post the entire interview, it is not exactly your father's Oldsmobile.

Here it is, Robert. Scroll down to page 353:

https://books.google.com/books?id=7uT-47ysB5MC&pg=PA351&lpg=PA351&dq=%22no+more+silence%22+holmes&source=bl&ots=eicayMeQp8&sig=Y0YdzIRV-iPYQTLkdq9j5Vpyrkk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=K7cmVc-4E5G1oQSO4oC4DA&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=%22no%20more%20silence%22%20holmes&f=false

--Tommy :sun

I wonder what Holmes' excuse was for having an open line to Washington during the assassination?

His plaza-facing office on the fifth floor of the Terminal Annex Building would have made an excellent observation center / command center. It's interesting that the W.C. lawyer already seemed to know that Holmes was watching the motorcade through binoculars.

Mr. HOLMES. As it came out of Main Street, the President was sitting on the right in the back seat. His wife was on the left. Governor Connally, whom I also recognized, was sitting on the right of the middle seat.

Mr. BELIN. Were you looking with the aid of any optical instrument?

Mr. HOLMES. I had a pair of 7 1/2 x 50 binoculars.

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/holmes1.htm

View from that side of the Terminal Annex Building:

Murray_Terminal_Annex_Building.jpg

Thanks,

--Tommy :sun

PS I wonder why keen observer Holmes didn't notice the same guy Jesse C. Price saw running very fast through the Grassy Knoll parking lot immediately after the assassination?

Edited by Thomas Graves
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Eastern Carolina News from Kenansville, North Carolina ...
www.newspapers.com/newspage/62165670/

There has" been no rioting this" week U.S. P.O. INSPECTORS Guard and Protect .... Orleans trading companies have com-, plainei to the State Department that,

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I didn't get the paper info,but is this indicating that U.S. P.O. INSPECTORS Guard and Protect ONI connected United Fruit ????

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Eastern Carolina News from Kenansville, North Carolina ...

www.newspapers.com/newspage/62165670/

There has" been no rioting this" week U.S. P.O. INSPECTORS Guard and Protect .... Orleans trading companies have com-, plainei to the State Department that,

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I didn't get the paper info,but is this indicating that U.S. P.O. INSPECTORS Guard and Protect ONI connected United Fruit ????

Wow.

A newspaper article from 1910, fifty-three years before the assassination, which you have to pay to read.

Way to go, Steven.

Great research.

Thanks for sharing.

--Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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A newspaper article from 1910, fifty-three years before the assassination, which you have to pay to read.

Way to go, Steven.

Great research.

Thanks for sharing.

--Tommy :sun

--------------------------------

GRAVES HAS SPOKEN (thunderclap lightning bolt) NO ONI CONNECTION TO ELM ST, case closed.

-- >>>>>>>>> On this thread there was material concerning the possible connection on NAVY veteran MOLINA and ONI connected Holmes. Holmes on phone with ?? HOOVER OR the Navy ? Graves mentions the year 1910 ,yet this IMHO is important in that the ONI / United Fruit connection started WWI.

=====================

Harry D Holmes

av-3136.jpg?_r=1166243976 Posted by John Dolva on 25 October 2010 - 01:25 PM in JFK Assassination Debate

'Lee Farley', on 25 Oct 2010 - 04:16 AM, said:snapback.png

I'm tying myself in knots trying to work out this "confidential informant" business.

As pointed out in Ian Griggs' short essay The Four Faces of Harry D Holmes we don't have anything "confirming" the fact that Holmes was definitely confidential informant DL-T7, but we are assuming this to be the case because of the content of CE1151.

We have the following documents relating to information provided by COnfidential Informant Dallas T-7:

http://www.maryferre...85&relPageId=36
http://www.maryferre...85&relPageId=37

What is strange about the above two pages is that the information was furnished on December 2nd 1963 by T-7 and on the second page it is claimed that the informant "could not identify Oswald from a photgraph displayed to him, but did recall that when he first saw OSWALD's photograph on television in late November 1963, he recognised him as being the same person he had dealt with previously." The information seems to be information provided from New Orleans. Why is this confusing me? Is this a different Dallas T-7?

As you can see from the "Harry Holmes" information he is described in exactly the same way as the two pages above:

http://www.maryferre...3&relPageId=226
http://www.maryferre...3&relPageId=227
http://www.maryferre...3&relPageId=228

It would appear that T-6 and T-7 both worked at the Dallas Post Office:

http://www.maryferre...56&relPageId=47

Informant T-6 seems to be furnishing some quite detailed (non-Post Office) information in 1959 relating to Joe Campisi:

http://www.maryferre...81&relPageId=11

But T-8 also works at the Post Office due to the information furnished concerning Oswald setting up the Dallas PO Box.
It's all very confusing (and probably meant to be) but looking through the Mary Ferrell database it would appear that if Holmes was T-7 then he was providing information on the Dallas chapter of the American GI Forum in 1955 which had TSBD employee Joe Molina as it Chairman.

I guess my question is, was Holmes T-7?


Interesting question. SOP was that no informant should know who else was an informant but it seems that the PO was infested with them. Cops have been known to swap badges.( smile.gif sorry but you know it's true ( < to no one on the forum)). Harry had an intimate relationship with the local law enforcement groupings, the DPD, the FBI etc, plus he was a hop skip and jump from the top brass in the CIA. Personally I think that DA T7 that clearly indicates HDH is correct (but further scrutiny is obviously needed) slipped through the cracks and it took some time for someone to pick it. Other assassination witnesses are Price (PO, (TA)), an unidentified secretary according to HDH within 30 feet of the killshot, and a couple of others I think, that for the moment slips my mind.
Likewise Bell took the end of his film from what seems to be (when looking at photos of the TA from the TSBD building and vice versa) from HDH's suggested office, ending with a lingering shot on the fifth floor of the Dallas Court buiding from where one can reasonably assume that another FBI informant passed on info to the FBI about prisoner claims that the PO should be looked at, the prisoners dispersed, Fay Leon Blunt, after the WC volumes came out, again contacted the FBI because nothing had been done about his initial report, then he disappears off the radar and his contribution binned till found in an off room box by a diligent researcher given access to newly released records. DA T1 also figures prominently so the possibility of a typo is there too.
Very confusing, a bit like a jigsaw puzzle with bits missing that shouldn't be missing unless someone else has messed with it.
Edited by Steven Gaal
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A newspaper article from 1910, fifty-three years before the assassination, which you have to pay to read.

Way to go, Steven.

Great research.

Thanks for sharing.

--Tommy :sun

--------------------------------

GRAVES HAS SPOKEN (thunderclap lightning bolt) NO ONI CONNECTION TO ELM ST, case closed.

-- >>>>>>>>> On this thread there was material concerning the possible connection on NAVY veteran MOLINA and ONI connected Holmes. Holmes on phone with ?? HOOVER OR the Navy ? Graves mentions the year 1910 ,yet this IMHO is important in that the ONI / United Fruit connection started WWI.

=====================

Harry D Holmes

av-3136.jpg?_r=1166243976 Posted by John Dolva on 25 October 2010 - 01:25 PM in JFK Assassination Debate

'Lee Farley', on 25 Oct 2010 - 04:16 AM, said:snapback.png

I'm tying myself in knots trying to work out this "confidential informant" business.

As pointed out in Ian Griggs' short essay The Four Faces of Harry D Holmes we don't have anything "confirming" the fact that Holmes was definitely confidential informant DL-T7, but we are assuming this to be the case because of the content of CE1151.

We have the following documents relating to information provided by COnfidential Informant Dallas T-7:

http://www.maryferre...85&relPageId=36

http://www.maryferre...85&relPageId=37

What is strange about the above two pages is that the information was furnished on December 2nd 1963 by T-7 and on the second page it is claimed that the informant "could not identify Oswald from a photgraph displayed to him, but did recall that when he first saw OSWALD's photograph on television in late November 1963, he recognised him as being the same person he had dealt with previously." The information seems to be information provided from New Orleans. Why is this confusing me? Is this a different Dallas T-7?

As you can see from the "Harry Holmes" information he is described in exactly the same way as the two pages above:

http://www.maryferre...3&relPageId=226

http://www.maryferre...3&relPageId=227

http://www.maryferre...3&relPageId=228

It would appear that T-6 and T-7 both worked at the Dallas Post Office:

http://www.maryferre...56&relPageId=47

Informant T-6 seems to be furnishing some quite detailed (non-Post Office) information in 1959 relating to Joe Campisi:

http://www.maryferre...81&relPageId=11

But T-8 also works at the Post Office due to the information furnished concerning Oswald setting up the Dallas PO Box.

It's all very confusing (and probably meant to be) but looking through the Mary Ferrell database it would appear that if Holmes was T-7 then he was providing information on the Dallas chapter of the American GI Forum in 1955 which had TSBD employee Joe Molina as it Chairman.

I guess my question is, was Holmes T-7?

Interesting question. SOP was that no informant should know who else was an informant but it seems that the PO was infested with them. Cops have been known to swap badges.( smile.gif sorry but you know it's true ( < to no one on the forum)). Harry had an intimate relationship with the local law enforcement groupings, the DPD, the FBI etc, plus he was a hop skip and jump from the top brass in the CIA. Personally I think that DA T7 that clearly indicates HDH is correct (but further scrutiny is obviously needed) slipped through the cracks and it took some time for someone to pick it. Other assassination witnesses are Price (PO, (TA)), an unidentified secretary according to HDH within 30 feet of the killshot, and a couple of others I think, that for the moment slips my mind.

Likewise Bell took the end of his film from what seems to be (when looking at photos of the TA from the TSBD building and vice versa) from HDH's suggested office, ending with a lingering shot on the fifth floor of the Dallas Court buiding from where one can reasonably assume that another FBI informant passed on info to the FBI about prisoner claims that the PO should be looked at, the prisoners dispersed, Fay Leon Blunt, after the WC volumes came out, again contacted the FBI because nothing had been done about his initial report, then he disappears off the radar and his contribution binned till found in an off room box by a diligent researcher given access to newly released records. DA T1 also figures prominently so the possibility of a typo is there too.

Very confusing, a bit like a jigsaw puzzle with bits missing that shouldn't be missing unless someone else has messed with it.

You are something else, Steven.

Just because I refused to pay to read the 1910 newspaper article you posted, and suggested that it was irrelevant to the assassination because it was published fifty-three years before it, does that mean I think there was no connection between the ONI and the assassination?

You are unbelievable.

I think you actually wanted me to respond like that so you would have an "excuse" to accuse me of saying something I didn't say.

--Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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The definitive interview of Harry Holmes is in the book No More Silence, after I saw this thread had been bumped I went back to see if there was anything I had overlooked. And there was something I had overlooked that was so glaring that I was embarrassed I hadn't noticed it. Holmes, in addition to watching the Plaza at the time of the assassination through binoculars had an open line to Washington.

If that isn't a smoking gun, I don't understand what the word means. Someone should post the entire interview, it is not exactly your father's Oldsmobile.

Here it is, Robert. Scroll down to page 353:

https://books.google.com/books?id=7uT-47ysB5MC&pg=PA351&lpg=PA351&dq=%22no+more+silence%22+holmes&source=bl&ots=eicayMeQp8&sig=Y0YdzIRV-iPYQTLkdq9j5Vpyrkk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=K7cmVc-4E5G1oQSO4oC4DA&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=%22no%20more%20silence%22%20holmes&f=false

--Tommy :sun

I wonder what Holmes' excuse was for having an open line to Washington during the assassination?

His plaza-facing office on the fifth floor of the Terminal Annex Building would have made an excellent observation center / command center. It's interesting that the W.C. lawyer already seemed to know that Holmes was watching the motorcade through binoculars.

Mr. HOLMES. As it came out of Main Street, the President was sitting on the right in the back seat. His wife was on the left. Governor Connally, whom I also recognized, was sitting on the right of the middle seat.

Mr. BELIN. Were you looking with the aid of any optical instrument?

Mr. HOLMES. I had a pair of 7 1/2 x 50 binoculars.

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/holmes1.htm

View from that side of the Terminal Annex Building:

Murray_Terminal_Annex_Building.jpg

Thanks,

--Tommy :sun

PS I wonder why keen observer Holmes didn't notice the same guy Jesse C. Price saw running very fast through the Grassy Knoll parking lot immediately after the assassination?

bumped

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Hmmm.. That's a confusing response by me to an important post by Lee. Possibly indicative of my confusaion at the time. Also, there is so much to be said about HDH that I try to cram as much as possible in while I have attention but alas a flawed approach. For example I'd been mentioning HDH's line to washington for some time, probably wrote about it on this topic too, but...

The USPO was set up by Benjamin Franklin, A couple of years later he set up the USPO PI department. This is the oldest intelligence department of the us gov predating all others. That it shoulkd have deep connections to the fbi, the cia, oni, mil int should be of no surprise.

HDH had a unique position in many ways. Not just a front row seat ovelooking the assassination, not just a confidant of dpd heavies, not just the person who delayed oswalds transfer till minutes before ruby was in position by asking a series of relatively meaningless q's at his last interview (which he attended 'on a whim', Now that I've started again, I realise there is so much on this guy that has fallen through the cracks that in trying in the past to rouse interest in him to no avail a book can be written on him. There are far more matters of interest. Very intriguing stuff.

Perhaps it all opens up a field that many prefer to not be aware of as it puts a different spin on things. I remember reading an interview with a researcher in the NYT from decades ago where he mentioned a couple of these oddities about HDH but neither he nor the article made anything of it. Like an invisible sacred cow or something like that. I get the impression from some things of the time that people were scared of him or perhaps what he represented in their minds

edit add sorry, wrote that while Tom was posting.

Edited by John Dolva
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This has some interesting stuff.....

The Zapruder Film and Harry Holmes:
by Vincent Palamara


Fred Newcomb and the late Perry Adams interviewed
Harry Holmes for their unpublished manuscript entitled
"Murder From Within"* (a 1974 production
that took five years to research/ write: the authors'
only tv appearance** was on the now-defunct "Inside
Report" on NBC back in May 1990), a great body of work
that introduced everyone to body alteration (years
before Lifton, who offers a "legalese" footnote
pertaining to another topic on page 370--and page
732---of "Best Evidence"), ZAPRUDER FILM TAMPERING (as
acknowledged by Harrison Livingstone in "Killing
Kennedy" and on several pages of "Assassination
Science"), LHO backyard photo fakery (as acknowledged
by Jack White in "The Many Faces of Lee Harvey Oswald"
and in Jim Marrs' "Crossfire"), Dodd Committee/ Seaport
Traders/ LHO theory (see pages 300 and 528 of Henry
Hurt's "Reasonable Doubt"), and, last but not least,
Greer shooting JFK [years before Bill Cooper!] (which,
like Hickey shooting JFK in "Mortal Error", greatly
damaged the good work in the rest of the book). Newcomb
was also the first to track down the Air Force One
transcripts at the LBJ Library back in 1975 ("Best
Evidence", p. 681) and that one of the Willis photos
had been retouched by the FBI ("Who's Who in the JFK
Assassination" by Michael Benson, p. 310), but I
digress...

The authors interviewed the following members of the
DPD: Jesse Curry, B.J. Martin, Douglas Jackson, James
Chaney, Stavis Ellis, Marion Baker, Joe M. Smith, and
Earle V. Brown. Also, Jean Hill, Bill Newman, Charles
Brehm, Ralph Yarborough, Joe H. Rich, Bill Greer, Roy
Kellerman***, Henry Gonzalez, Dean Andrews...and HARRY
D. HOLMES.

PAGE 129:
"Also on Friday evening, November 22nd, [Forrest]
Sorrels did a frame-by-frame study of the Zapruder film
in his Dallas office. According to Dallas Postal
Inspector Harry D. Holmes who was present, "...we
thumbed (through) that thing for an hour or more...push (ing)
it up one frame at a time."



PAGE 213:
"A postal inspector [Holmes] picked up a piece of skull
from the Elm St. pavement. He said it was as "...big as
the end of my finger..." Furthermore, it was one of many:
"...there was just pieces of skull and bone and
corruption all over the place..." He later discarded
it
.[!!!]"

Seymour Weitzman found a "firecracker" sized skull
fragment on Elm Street which he turned over to the
Secret Service [7 H 107];
the Harper fragment; the back-of-the -head piece Sam
Kinney found lying in the rear of the limo while on the
C-130; the three pieces found in the limo:

what is going on here???

In any event, Harry Holmes is certainly unique: he had
perhaps the best vantage point, witnessing the
assassination THROUGH BINOCULARS on the fifth floor of
the Post Office Terminal Annex Building. Holmes was
previously an FBI informant and, in his capacity as
Postal Inspector, had traced the paperwork concerning
the Oswald mail order rifle and revolver and testified
about it to the Warren Commission. Holmes was present
asking questions during the final interrogation of Lee
Harvey Oswald on 11/24/63, shortly before Ruby would
silence him forever. Holmes was a friend of John
Martin, a man who also worked in the same building who
took a film on that fateful day ("Pictures of the
Pain", p. 574). And, now, we know he found a piece of
President Kennedy's skull on Elm Street---which
he then DISCARDED---and he analyzed the Zapruder film
on NOVEMBER 22, 1963!!!


Vince Palamara

* a nice summary of their work can be found in a
lengthy letter sent to the HSCA's Patricia Orr dated
3/7/77 [RIF# 180-10090-10263].

**Newcomb and Adams' work was the basis behind the
two-part CFTR radio (Canada) 1976 program entitled
"Thou Shalt Not Kill", available from The Collector's
Archives in Quebec. Included is a short conversation
with Roy Kellerman.

***In a letter to the author dated 1/21/92, Fred
Newcomb wrote: "We did two telephonic interviews with
Kellerman and two with Greer. Those were the only S.S.
we talked to."

I never knew until 5 minutes ago, that Holmes knew John Martin.....

Martin 's activities on November 22, 1963 were so intertwined with

the day's events that he had to have been clairvoyant, unless your like

me and don't believe in clairvoyance.....I also believe Harry D. Holmes

was a morally bankrupt person. Thought for the day. What would he say

to Oswald, if he did say anything to Oswald on the elevator going down

to be mortally wounded....., If he did say anything to Oswald I'm sure it

mirrored what Leavelle said...I'll always wonder about that....When he was

interviewed by Larry Sneed, he leaves it open that Oswald might not have

even done the shooting......At the least if the story about destroying forensic

evidence in the JFK Assassination is true, he should have been legally

prosecuted, small wonder that never happened.

Edited by Robert Howard
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The TACA operation of guns to Central American dictators run by the State Department and the mafia predates the creation of the CIA.

To help in the operation the State Department would tap ONI. Bill Weston's Spiders Web contends that the TSBD had a gun running operation.
Ex Navy man Molina TSBD employee may have been part of this.

Harold Byrd (owner TSBD building) was one of the three major owners of LTV. LTV was trying to develop a sea torpedo to air weapon system.

ONI would have been all over any of the LTV owners.

Harold Bird sat on the board of Dorchester Gas with Jack Crichton of Empire Trust. Empire Trust's private intelligence service had ONI connections.

]]]]

It may be that ONI man Holmes is watching/reporting on in real time a CIA assassination operation run out of the ONI/TSBD building. (GAAL)

====================================

see

http://quixoticjoust.blogspot.cz/2012/05/colossal-failure-to-research-ekdahl.html

]]]]]]]]]]

Marguerite Oswald worked as a receptionist for a Standard Fruit Company law firm.Marguerite Oswald's uncle's law partner did work for United Fruit. Marguerite Oswald's Uncle seems to have gotten Marguerite the receptionists job. Odd for Standard Fruit and United Fruit were untill around WWII were at loggerheads against each other. Could Marguerite Oswald been a United Fruit spy ????

Edited by Steven Gaal
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This has some interesting stuff.....

The Zapruder Film and Harry Holmes:

by Vincent Palamara

Fred Newcomb and the late Perry Adams interviewed

Harry Holmes for their unpublished manuscript entitled

"Murder From Within"* (a 1974 production

that took five years to research/ write: the authors'

only tv appearance** was on the now-defunct "Inside

Report" on NBC back in May 1990), a great body of work

that introduced everyone to body alteration (years

before Lifton, who offers a "legalese" footnote

pertaining to another topic on page 370--and page

732---of "Best Evidence"), ZAPRUDER FILM TAMPERING (as

acknowledged by Harrison Livingstone in "Killing

Kennedy" and on several pages of "Assassination

Science"), LHO backyard photo fakery (as acknowledged

by Jack White in "The Many Faces of Lee Harvey Oswald"

and in Jim Marrs' "Crossfire"), Dodd Committee/ Seaport

Traders/ LHO theory (see pages 300 and 528 of Henry

Hurt's "Reasonable Doubt"), and, last but not least,

Greer shooting JFK [years before Bill Cooper!] (which,

like Hickey shooting JFK in "Mortal Error", greatly

damaged the good work in the rest of the book). Newcomb

was also the first to track down the Air Force One

transcripts at the LBJ Library back in 1975 ("Best

Evidence", p. 681) and that one of the Willis photos

had been retouched by the FBI ("Who's Who in the JFK

Assassination" by Michael Benson, p. 310), but I

digress...

The authors interviewed the following members of the

DPD: Jesse Curry, B.J. Martin, Douglas Jackson, James

Chaney, Stavis Ellis, Marion Baker, Joe M. Smith, and

Earle V. Brown. Also, Jean Hill, Bill Newman, Charles

Brehm, Ralph Yarborough, Joe H. Rich, Bill Greer, Roy

Kellerman***, Henry Gonzalez, Dean Andrews...and HARRY

D. HOLMES.

PAGE 129:

"Also on Friday evening, November 22nd, [Forrest]

Sorrels did a frame-by-frame study of the Zapruder film

in his Dallas office. According to Dallas Postal

Inspector Harry D. Holmes who was present, "...we

thumbed (through) that thing for an hour or more...push (ing)

it up one frame at a time."

PAGE 213:

"A postal inspector [Holmes] picked up a piece of skull

from the Elm St. pavement. He said it was as "...big as

the end of my finger..." Furthermore, it was one of many:

"...there was just pieces of skull and bone and

corruption all over the place..." He later discarded

it.[!!!]"

Seymour Weitzman found a "firecracker" sized skull

fragment on Elm Street which he turned over to the

Secret Service [7 H 107];

the Harper fragment; the back-of-the -head piece Sam

Kinney found lying in the rear of the limo while on the

C-130; the three pieces found in the limo:

what is going on here???

In any event, Harry Holmes is certainly unique: he had

perhaps the best vantage point, witnessing the

assassination THROUGH BINOCULARS on the fifth floor of

the Post Office Terminal Annex Building. Holmes was

previously an FBI informant and, in his capacity as

Postal Inspector, had traced the paperwork concerning

the Oswald mail order rifle and revolver and testified

about it to the Warren Commission. Holmes was present

asking questions during the final interrogation of Lee

Harvey Oswald on 11/24/63, shortly before Ruby would

silence him forever. Holmes was a friend of John

Martin, a man who also worked in the same building who

took a film on that fateful day ("Pictures of the

Pain", p. 574). And, now, we know he found a piece of

President Kennedy's skull on Elm Street---which

he then DISCARDED---and he analyzed the Zapruder film

on NOVEMBER 22, 1963!!!

Vince Palamara

* a nice summary of their work can be found in a

lengthy letter sent to the HSCA's Patricia Orr dated

3/7/77 [RIF# 180-10090-10263].

**Newcomb and Adams' work was the basis behind the

two-part CFTR radio (Canada) 1976 program entitled

"Thou Shalt Not Kill", available from The Collector's

Archives in Quebec. Included is a short conversation

with Roy Kellerman.

***In a letter to the author dated 1/21/92, Fred

Newcomb wrote: "We did two telephonic interviews with

Kellerman and two with Greer. Those were the only S.S.

we talked to."

I never knew until 5 minutes ago, that Holmes knew John Martin.....

Martin 's activities on November 22, 1963 were so intertwined with

the day's events that he had to have been clairvoyant, unless your like

me and don't believe in clairvoyance.....I also believe Harry D. Holmes

was a morally bankrupt person. Thought for the day. What would he say

to Oswald, if he did say anything to Oswald on the elevator going down

to be mortally wounded....., If he did say anything to Oswald I'm sure it

mirrored what Leavelle said...I'll always wonder about that....When he was

interviewed by Larry Sneed, he leaves it open that Oswald might not have

even done the shooting......At the least if the story about destroying forensic

evidence in the JFK Assassination is true, he should have been legally

prosecuted, small wonder that never happened.

John Martin was a postal worker who worked in the Terminal Annex Building.

Harry Holmes was a postal inspector whose office was in the Terminal Annex Building.

Is it really all that suspicious that they should know each other?

--Tommy :sun

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I didn't say it was suspicious, I said I didn't know they knew each other.......Lighten up Francis

Do you think it's significant that they knew each other?

Why even mention it?

Just curious.

I guess it was Vince Palmara who implied that it was suspicious!!!

" [...] Holmes was a friend of John Martin, a man who also worked in the same building who

took a film on that fateful day ("Pictures of the

Pain", p. 574). And now we know he [Holmes] found a piece of

President Kennedy's skull on Elm Street---which

he then DISCARDED---and he analyzed the Zapruder film

on NOVEMBER 22, 1963!!! "

--Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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There was a Jack Martin who was the very erratic companion of Guy Banister, then there was John Martin, as mentioned before he was practically tailing Oswald after LHO left the Depository. In addition, some of Oswald's paychecks in New Orleans were cashed by a Martin. It had, at one time been my view that there may have been some sleight-of-hand regarding John Martin's name or even his background. This is all very complicated when you're trying to find inconsistencies, in the official version of events....So, James Hosty interviewed in a one paragraph Warren Commission document of someone named John Martin, he was supposedly a "Uruguayan." Some have even wondered if the John Martin, Hosty interviewed was really John Martino. I will actually admit I wondered if the Jack Martin who knew Banister was the same person as the John Martin shooting video in Dealey Plaza. Richard Trask...That Day in Dallas, Pictures of the Pain, etc., thought enough of the allegation that he specifically mentioned they were not the same. Some surnames in the JFK Assassination are very compelling, even if I was wrong. Sorry to Steven about my comment, but I don't like posters here to imply I am a idiot, because it is not necessary.

More on Holmes.....

IN THEIR OWN WORDS - Nov. 22-25, 1963

The Dallas Morning News - Sunday, November 20, 1988
Nov. 24 SUNDAY After midnight

Oswald's impending transfer from the city jail to the Dallas County Jail is under discussion at the Police Department.

Detective Rose: "Captain Fritz told us that he had met with the chief (Curry) and the city manager (Elgin Crull) and he was going to have to transfer Oswald publicly for a media event. . . . He was really adamant about it. He was visibly upset. In fact, he told us he was upset.' About 3:20 a.m.

FBI agent Milton Newsom calls Dallas police Capt. W.B. Frazier to inform him of an anonymous threat received at the Dallas FBI office earlier in the morning.

Frazier: "He said he had received a threat from some man to the effect that a group of men, I believe he indicated they had 100 or 200 . . . were going to attempt to kill Oswald that day sometime.'

Frazier calls Capt. Fritz.

Fritz: "Captain Frazier . . . told me they had some threats and he had to transfer Oswald. And I said, "Well, I don't know. . . . You had better call (Curry).' . . . He called me back then in a few minutes and he told me he couldn't get the chief and told me to leave him where he was.

"I don't think that transferring him at night would have been any safer than transferring him during the day. I have always felt that that was Ruby who made that call. I may be wrong. But he was out late that night. . . . If two or three of those officers had started out with him, they may have had the same trouble they had the next morning.' 7 to 9 a.m.

Police begin preparations for transferring Oswald out of the Police and Courts Building. The basement is cleared, guards are stationed at the ramps leading into the garage and officers search the area.

Curry: "We felt that if an attempt was made on him, that it would be made by a group of people. One of the threats that had been made during the night was, "This is a group of 100 and we will take the prisoner before you get him to the County Jail,' so we really expected trouble, if we had trouble, from a group of people and not an individual.

"We discussed the possibility of even some detective or some police officer that might be so emotionally aroused that he might try to take some action against the man, and we tried to be sure that the men we put there were emotionally stable men.' Before 9:30 a.m.

James R. Leavelle, a homicide detective, sees Curry on the first floor of City Hall.

Leavelle: "I suggested to the chief that we double-cross the media and take Oswald out on the first floor and put him in a car and take him down to the County Jail. I said, "We can be down there before anybody knows we've even started with him.'

word.' ' About 9:30 a.m.

Ruby is at his apartment reading the newspaper when he sees a letter from a Dallas resident to Caroline Kennedy about her father's death.

Ruby: "Alongside that letter on the same sheet of paper was a small comment in the newspaper that -- I don't know how it was stated -- Mrs. Kennedy may have to come back for the trial of Lee Harvey Oswald.

"That caused me to go like I did. . . .

"I never spoke to anyone about attempting to do anything. No subversive organization gave me any idea. No underworld person made any effort to contact me. It all happened that Sunday morning. . . .

"I wanted to show my love for our faith, being of the Jewish faith. . . . Suddenly the feeling, the emotional feeling came within me that someone owed this debt to our beloved president to save her (Jackie) the ordeal of coming back.'

Senator, Ruby's roommate, sees him eat breakfast, read the newspaper and watch memorial services for President Kennedy on television.

Senator: "The effect on Jack was it put him in a worse mood than he was, more solemn than ever, and he had tears in his eyes.'

At the Police Department, Fritz tells homicide detectives L.C. Graves and Leavelle that they will transfer Oswald. The original plan is to carry him in an armored car. Before then, Leavelle and Graves are asked to bring Oswald to Fritz's office for a final interrogation.

Graves: "We were told by several of the people that were supposed to be in charge of security downstairs, they said everything was secure, all we had to do was bring him out and put him in the car, which would be situated right in the driveway, right even with where we walked out.

"We got him (Oswald) down out of the jail and took him to Captain Fritz's office first.'

Homicide detective Charles N. "Chuck' Dhority also sees Oswald.

Dhority: "The only time I saw him scared was when we went up to get him out of jail to transfer him . . . and I told him there had been threats on his life. He seemed to get scared then.'

Fritz, postal inspector Harry D. Holmes and Secret Service Agent Thomas Kelley question Oswald in Fritz's office.

Holmes : "There was no formality to the interrogation. One man would question Oswald. Another would interrupt with a different trend of thought. . . .

"Oswald was quite composed. He answered readily those questions that he wanted to answer. He could cut off just like with a knife anything that he didn't want to answer.

"And those particular things that he didn't want to answer were anything that pertained with the assassination of the president or the shooting of officer Tippit. He flatly denied any knowledge of either.

"He was not particularly obnoxious. He seemed to be intelligent. He seemed to be clear-minded; he seemed to have a good memory, because in questioning him about the ( postal ) boxes, which I had original applications in front of me, he was pretty accurate. . . .

"Someone asked him about what his beliefs were . . . someone referred to his communism, and he said, "I am not a communist. I am a Marxist. . . . A communist is a Lenin Marxist and I am a true Karl Marxist.'

"So, this Secret Service inspector asked, "What religion are you?' . . . And he said, "I have no faith.' And then he said, "I suppose you mean the Bible.'

" "Well,' he said, "I have read the Bible. It is fair reading, but not very interesting. But as a matter of fact, I am a student of philosophy and I don't consider the Bible as even a reasonable or intelligent philosophy. I don't think much of it.' ' About 10:15 a.m.

Ruby gets a phone call from Karen "Little Lynn' Bennett, a stripper. Ruby has closed his club in mourning and she hasn't been paid. The rent on her Fort Worth apartment is due, and her landlord has threatened to evict her if she doesn't come up with the money by noon.

Miss Bennett: "The rent was $15. I called Jack and asked him to send me $25 and Jack said, "Well, I'm going downtown' . . . or "I have to go downtown.' But, anyway, he said he was going downtown and he would drop the money off at Western Union for me so I could get it quicker. . . .

"He sounded as if he had been crying or was crying or was about to cry. You know, like someone that was far away. . . . When I talked to him, I had to call him back to the phone three times. I asked, "Jack, are you still there?' because it seemed like he was far away.'

Senator: "He sure had a moody look and very faraway look to me. It was a look that I had never seen before on him. . . . All he said, he said, "George, I am taking the dog (Sheba, his favorite dachshund) down to the club.' '

Ruby: "I got a call from a little girl -- she wanted some money -- that worked for me. . . . So my purpose was to go to the Western Union -- my double purpose -- but the thought of doing, committing the act wasn't until I left my apartment.'

Among those gathered at the police station in anticipation of Oswald's transfer is Ike Pappas, a reporter with WNEW radio in New York.

Pappas: "I was amazed when I listened to Jesse Curry because he was laying out every bit of the detail of moving this prisoner, probably the most notorious prisoner we've had in this century. . . . I didn't understand that. . . .

"He had all these people from all over the world in there, and international reporters, and he was playing to the crowd. . . .

"He told us the time and how they were going to take him, and he was a little confused about how they were going to put him in an armored car.' 10 to 11 a.m.

As the crowd grows at the police station, thousands of others gather at Dallas-area churches for Sunday morning services. Many of the ministers address the Kennedy assassination, including the Rev. Thomas Fry Jr., pastor of First Presbyterian Church, and the Rev. William A. Holmes , pastor of Northaven United Methodist Church.

Fry: "I said it was such a shame. We didn't know why it had happened at the time. . . .

"I made a prediction, which came true, that I felt that the things that Kennedy had stood for probably had a better chance of succeeding now that he was gone than if he had stayed alive. Because there would be such emotion in the country that the next president would have a better chance of getting all the things, which Lyndon Johnson did.

"I talked to them about the fact I really felt that whether it had been from Dallas or not, we had created an atmosphere in which it could happen. And that we had to do something about it.

"I wanted to say that the past is the past. We've got to start again. . . . I felt that we as a city and as a country had a responsibility for seeing that things like that didn't happen. . . . We had too long ignored . . . the conflict within our city and tried to act like it wasn't there, and you can't do that.'

Holmes also delivers a sermon critical of Dallas.

Holmes : "President John Kennedy was killed two days ago in Dallas, and the one thing worse than this is that the citizens of Dallas should declare unto the world, "We take no responsibility for the death of this man.' . . . There is no city in the United States which in recent months and years has been more acquiescent toward its extremists than Dallas, Texas.'

Holmes ' sermon will be broadcast two days later on the CBS Evening News. Because of phone threats, police will advise Holmes and his family to leave their home for a week. But on Sunday, he has a rapt audience.

Holmes : "It was standing-room only, as was true for churches throughout the nation. . . . It was an atmosphere that contained several dimensions: One was a great sense of tragedy and loss and a great sense of unity. . . . Everybody was just devastated. . . .

"We just acquiesced for months prior to that and let our city be taken over, as far as public image was concerned, by a bunch of extreme reactionary right-wing people.

"I just felt that if the Christian faith isn't applicable to this kind of event, I can't imagine what it would be applicable to.' 10:47 a.m.

In Washington, the last Kennedy White House Mass concludes, as a small group of friends and relatives leaves the East Room.
Caption: Photos: 1.People waiting for a glimpse of Lee Harvey Oswald line Houston Street across from the Dallas County criminal courts building, which houses the County Jail, awaiting Oswald's transfer from the city jail. 2.Oswald poses with a rifle and a pistol in a March 1963 photo taken by his wife. (1-2: Associated Press); 3.Dallas Police Chief Jesse Curry in his office at police headquarters. (The Dallas Morning News); 4. A "Closed" sign is posted in the window of Jack Ruby's Carousel Club. He also closed the Vegas Club for the weekend during mourning for Kennedy. (Warren Commission); 5.Stripper Karen "Little Lynn" Bennett worked for Ruby. (Associated Press)
Edition: HOME FINAL
Section: SPECIAL
Page: 29
Series: NOV. 22 Twenty-five Years Later
Index Terms: PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY ASSASSINATION 25th ANNIVERSARY
Edited by Robert Howard
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The TACA operation of guns to Central American dictators run by the State Department and the mafia predates the creation of the CIA.

To help in the operation the State Department would tap ONI. Bill Weston's Spiders Web contends that the TSBD had a gun running operation.
Ex Navy man Molina TSBD employee may have been part of this.

Harold Byrd (owner TSBD building) was one of the three major owners of LTV. LTV was trying to develop a sea torpedo to air weapon system.

ONI would have been all over any of the LTV owners.

Harold Bird sat on the board of Dorchester Gas with Jack Crichton of Empire Trust. Empire Trust's private intelligence service had ONI connections.

]]]]

It may be that ONI man Holmes is watching/reporting on in real time a CIA assassination operation run out of the ONI/TSBD building. (GAAL)

====================================

see

http://quixoticjoust...rch-ekdahl.html

]]]]]]]]]]

Marguerite Oswald worked as a receptionist for a Standard Fruit Company law firm.Marguerite Oswald's uncle's law partner did work for United Fruit. Marguerite Oswald's Uncle seems to have gotten Marguerite the receptionists job. Odd for Standard Fruit and United Fruit were until around WWIi were at loggerheads against each other. Could Marguerite Oswald been a United Fruit spy ????

Edited by Steven Gaal
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post revision

===============

The TACA operation of guns to Central American dictators run by the State Department and the mafia predates the creation of the CIA.

To help in the operation the State Department would tap ONI. Bill Weston's Spiders Web contends that the TSBD had a gun running operation.

Ex Navy man Molina TSBD employee may have been part of this.

Harold Byrd (owner TSBD building) was one of the three major owners of LTV. LTV was trying to develop a sea torpedo to air weapon system.

ONI would have been all over any of the LTV owners.

Harold Bird sat on the board of Dorchester Gas with Jack Crichton of Empire Trust. Empire Trust's private intelligence service had ONI connections.

]]]]

It may be that ONI man Holmes is watching/reporting on in real time a CIA assassination operation run out of the ONI/TSBD building. (GAAL)

====================================

see

http://quixoticjoust...rch-ekdahl.html

]]]]]]]]]]

Marguerite Oswald worked as a receptionist for a Standard Fruit Company law firm.Marguerite Oswald's uncle's law partner did work for United Fruit. Marguerite Oswald's Uncle seems to have gotten Marguerite the receptionists job. Odd for Standard Fruit and United Fruit were until around WWIi were at loggerheads against each other. Could Marguerite Oswald been a United Fruit spy ????

Why do you say " ex-Navy man Joe Molina might have been a part of this [alleged ONI-protected gun running operation allegedly being run out of the TSBD] " ?

Because he had been in the Navy?

--Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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