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The Paines


Tim Gratz

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Guest Tom Scully

I'm wondering now, why Mary Bancroft, anyone in her family or working at the Wall Street Journal who knew her well, or Mary's close friend, Ruth Paine, or anyone acquainted with her, or Ruth's son, Michael or his wife, Ruth, did NOT volunteer to the Warren Commission or to the FBI or the Dallas P.D. that Mary Bancroft had been an intimate of Allen Dulles? What are the odds that Hoover did not know it? Seems that they were all complicit by their silence...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&tbo=1&tbs=bks%3A1&q=1+got+a+divorce+in+Reno+and+in+the+summer+of+1933&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Autobiography of a spy by Mary Bancroft -page 59

1 got a divorce in Reno and in the summer of 1933 sent the children to visit him and went abroad with Ruth Paine. We planned to spend the entire time at St. Jean- de-Luz in France, near the Spanish frontier, for neither of us could envisage a summer that didn't encompass being by the sea.

Early in July we sailed on one of the ships of the French Line bound for Bordeaux. The first night out we were invited to dinner at the captain's table. I sat beside Jean Rufenacht, who was on his way home from Japan after having audited the books of a Swiss silk company with offices in Tokyo. When I asked Jean his nationality, he said, "I'm Swiss," to which I had replied, not too politely I fear, "How dull!" He gave me a quick, speculative glance, and added, "Actually I was born a Turk. My family only acquired Swiss

citizenship later!" This, of course, was much more intriguing. I thought of the Turks as a wild and savage folk who killed unfaithful wives with the most imaginative forms of torture. 1 asked Jean if this were true. He nodded. "Oh, yes, the Turks understand very well how women should be treated! I was fascinated. For the rest of the voyage, he regaled me with stories of life in the Middle East. He was fourteen years older than I and physically not at all the type of man that I usually found attractive. He was heavyset and bald, but he had an intriguing twinkle in his eye and spoke half a dozen languages fluently. With my distaste for provincialism in all its forms, I liked what I regarded as his worldliness, his facility with languages, and his extensive knowledge of gourmet food and wines. Ruth and I debarked at Bordeaux. Jean, continuing on to Calais, promised he would come to St. Jean-de-Luz to see me...

Since no official document has been found related to the Ruth Paine - Mary Bancroft - Dulles -Michael Paine - Oswald, chain of relationships, at the least, we can convincingly add Dulles to our list of compromised, Warren Commission, key people.

Earl Warren, Albert Jenner, and the man who recommended Jenner, Tom Clark, all compromised by their relations with and prior knowledge of Chicago organized crime principals. Add Hoover for the same reasons and much more, add Gerald Ford for his role as secret FBI spy on the WC, and Dulles for withholding his relationship with the best friend of Michael Paine's mother.....

Edited by Tom Scully
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I'm surprised that no one seems interested in how far back the ancestors of Michael Paine go and how firmly entrenched they are in the power structure. I dealt with that in some articles on my website.

http://www.minormusi...Drugs/Mask.html

THE FORBES CONNECTION

TO THE KILLING OF JFK

Ralph and Elise Cabot Forbes' daughter was Ruth Forbes, who first married the son of a minister, George Lyman Paine, and had one son named Michael Paine. Ruth's brother, William Cameron Forbes, was an American business executive and diplomat, born in Milton, Mass. in 1870, but spent much of his career in the Far East. He entered the mercantile house of his grandfather, John Murray Forbes, in Boston, becoming a partner there, after the end of Teddy Roosevelt's "splendid little war," in 1899.

Teddy appointed him in 1904 to the Philippine Commission, and he held several administrative posts in the islands before he served (1909-13) as governor-general and as a member of the Wood-Forbes Mission sent in 1921 by President Harding to the Philippines. Chairman in 1930 of a commission to study conditions in Haiti, he then went as ambassador to Japan during the Manchurian crisis, and in 1935 led an economic mission to East Asia.

Concurrently with these events, in 1902 Clarence Barron, representing Boston's powerful State Street, purchased Dow Jones & Company for $130,000. At the time of the purchase, Barron was publishing business bulletins in Boston and Philadelphia, which were merged into Dow Jones & Co. In 1907, the step-daughter of Clarence Barron, Jane Waldron Barron, married Hugh Bancroft, son of General William A. Bancroft (Harvard 1878), who was first elected mayor of Cambridge, Mass. in 1893 and reelected three times. He was chairman of the Brahmin-owned Boston Elevated Railway, and was a member of the Board of Overseers of Harvard University from 1893 to 1903. Hugh Bancroft also attended Harvard, where he was admitted to the elite Hasty Pudding Club. In 1912, Bancroft was made treasurer of Dow Jones, the holding company of the Journal. He became president in 1928, upon Clarence Barron's death. By that time, Bancroft and his family controlled the majority of Dow Jones & Company's shares. The Bancroft descendants have continued among the most significant shareholders of Dow Jones and the Wall Street Journal.

THE MYSTERIOUS MICHAEL PAINE

Michael Paine, sixth in descent from Robert Treat Paine, a signer of the Declaration of Independence, was also a great-great-grandson of Ralph Waldo Emerson. His mother's grandfather William Hathaway Forbes, was the first president of the American Bell Telephone Company after the company consolidated a number of local telephone networks. His son, Ralph Emerson Forbes, left an estate of $2.5 million in 1937, in which Ruth had a share. Ralph's brother, Ruth's "Uncle Cam," (Harvard 1892), had started his career as a clerk with Jackson & Curtis, before moving to work as a partner in John Murray Forbes & Co. He was elected a director of AT&T, United Fruit, and Stone & Webster, Inc. in order to look after the family's large holdings in those companies. He was also appointed to the Philippine Commission and as vice governor of the Islands until 1913. After that he was a receiver of a Brazilian railway, and a presidential appointee to "study conditions" in the Philippines and in Haiti. He served as an Overseer of Harvard during 1914-20, then became a life member of MIT Corporation. From 1930-32 he was Ambassador to Japan. [Who's Who in America, 1954-55].

Michael Paine was descended from the Cabots on both his father's and his mother's side; he was thus a second cousin once removed of Thomas Dudley Cabot and a cousin of Alexander Cochrane Forbes, who married a daughter of Warren Delano Robbins (FDR's cousin) and served as a director of United Fruit and trustee of Cabot, Cabot and Forbes.

Paul F.Hellmuth (among the first Catholic laymen to serve on the board of Notre Dame), and a vice-president of Cabot, Cabot and Forbes was a trustee of the J. Frederick Brown Foundation, a CIA "conduit", along with G.C. Cabot. Thus the Paine family [had] links with the blue-blood intelligence circles of the OSS and CIA, In the summer of 1963 it was Ruth (Michael's wife), rather than Michael Paine, who maintained close relations with the patrician Paine and Forbes families, traveling east in July to stay with her mother-in-law at the traditional Forbes clan retreat of Naushon Island near Wood's Hole, Massachusetts (CE 416, 17 H 119). [source: Peter Dale Scott, The Dallas Conspiracy, ch. IV, pp. 2-4, as quoted in websites linked above]. Hellmuth's name would appear in 1974 in Jack Anderson's column as the law partner of Richard Nixon's impeachment attorney, allegedly involved in an industrial security company that was "wholly owned" by the CIA and used to shred documents to maintain secrecy.

...

Mary Bancroft's first husband, Sherwin Badger, was a Harvard graduate whose first job had been in the head office of United Fruit in Cuba. After a year in Cuba he became a journalist in Boston, later moving to the Wall Street Journal and Barron's in New York, both of which were published by Mary's step-grandfather, Clarence Walker Barron. Mary also had a long friendship with the Trotsky follower, architect George Lyman Paine, and his wife Ruth Forbes Paine, whose son Michael Paine and his wife Ruth befriended Marina Oswald the year prior to John Kennedy's assassination.

Michael Paine's uncle, Eric Schroeder, was a friend and investment associate of geologist Everette DeGolyer, a long-time Dresser Industries director, who served on the Dresser board with Prescott Bush. Schroeder was a cousin of Alexander "Sandy" Forbes, former director of United Fruit who "belonged to the elite Tryall Golf Club retreat in Jamaica with ... Paul Raigorodsky." [source: Richard Bartholomew, "Possible Discovery," p. 38. See also Mary Bancroft, Autobiography of a Spy (New York: William Morrow, 1983).

http://www.minormusi...ancroftbook.JPG

http://www.minormusi...ristocracy.html

In the acknowledgment of her book, Ms. Emerson states: "Pictures, information and every sort of help have been given by … certain members of the family now living on Naushon, Ralph E. Forbes, W. Cameron Forbes, and Edward W. Forbes." [19] The father of the three men mentioned was William Hathaway Forbes—married in 1865 to Edith, daughter of Ralph Waldo Emerson—who was the first president of American Telephone and Telegraph Co., having organized the corporation for Alexander Graham Bell in 1879. He had been a partner from 1865 until 1897 of J. Murray Forbes & Co. We met W. Cameron Forbes in the Forbes Clan. He was the uncle who had offered to bring John Kerry's mother, Rosemary, to keep house for him not long before she married Kerry's father. John Kerry has a brother named for this favorite uncle.

Friends of Lee Harvey Oswald

Ruth Forbes (1903-98), a daughter of William Hathaway and Edith (Emerson) Forbes, married George Lyman Paine (Harvard class of 1922), an "enthusiastic Marxist and Trotskyite," and gave birth in 1928 to Michael Paine. She and Paine divorced in 1934; she married a man named Giles W. Thomas, before marrying her last husband, Arthur M. Young—inventor of the Bell helicopter. [20] Michael Paine testified as to his family background during the Warren Commission hearings. Michael's testimony resulted from the fact that he and his wife had become very good friends with Lee Harvey Oswald and his wife Marina in the six months or so before the Kennedy assassination. The friendship with the Oswalds occurred while Michael was employed in Fort Worth at Bell Helicopter—a company which eventually made a fortune manufacturing helicopters, a design patented by his stepfather, for the war in Vietnam. In Ruth Paine's testimony she recounted her visit to her in-laws' summer home on Naushon Island. Michael also testified that his grandfather paid his family's way to Naushon each year, but it is not clear whether this was a time the entire extended family came together or whether only parts of the family assembled at different times. It is clear from their testimony, however, that Ruth discussed Marina and Lee Oswald with her mother-in-law at that time, and that immediately upon her return in September of 1963 she invited Marina and the children to move into her house.

Much of the questioning of Ruth Paine before the Warren Commission came from Allen Dulles, the man whom John F. Kennedy had fired as Director of the C.I.A. Dulles never revealed at the time that he had known Ruth Forbes Paine Young and her family personally before questioning her daughter-in-law. Nor did he feel inclined to mention the fact that Michael Paine's grandmother's family (the Cabots) were huge stockholders in United Fruit Company; nor that both sides of the family—Cabot and Forbes—had owned land in Cuba that had been expropriated by Fidel Castro. [21] Above all, Dulles failed to mention that he and his brother, President Eisenhower's Secretary of State during the coup era, had previously been attorneys for the United Fruit Company.

Thanks for that Linda,

Especially the Tryall Golf Club references - Alexander "Sandy" Forbes, Sir William Stevenson, Ian Fleming, Paul Raigorodsky and John Connally are all associated with this exclusive North Shore Jamaica resort, where many deals were sealed.

Paul Raigorodsky, one of the White Russians who took care of Lee and Marina after their return from the USSR, was also affiliated with the Brook Hollow Golfr Club in Texas. Any information about either of those two private golf clubs would be appreciated, and I can update my Conspiracy Golf article.

BK

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I'm wondering now, why Mary Bancroft, anyone in her family or working at the Wall Street Journal who knew her well, or Mary's close friend, Ruth Paine, or anyone acquainted with her, or Ruth's son, Michael or his wife, Ruth, did NOT volunteer to the Warren Commission or to the FBI or the Dallas P.D. that Mary Bancroft had been an intimate of Allen Dulles? What are the odds that Hoover did not know it? Seems that they were all complicit by their silence...

http://www.google.co...l=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Autobiography of a spy by Mary Bancroft -page 59

1 got a divorce in Reno and in the summer of 1933 sent the children to visit him and went abroad with Ruth Paine. We planned to spend the entire time at St. Jean- de-Luz in France, near the Spanish frontier, for neither of us could envisage a summer that didn't encompass being by the sea.

Early in July we sailed on one of the ships of the French Line bound for Bordeaux. The first night out we were invited to dinner at the captain's table. I sat beside Jean Rufenacht, who was on his way home from Japan after having audited the books of a Swiss silk company with offices in Tokyo. When I asked Jean his nationality, he said, "I'm Swiss," to which I had replied, not too politely I fear, "How dull!" He gave me a quick, speculative glance, and added, "Actually I was born a Turk. My family only acquired Swiss

citizenship later!" This, of course, was much more intriguing. I thought of the Turks as a wild and savage folk who killed unfaithful wives with the most imaginative forms of torture. 1 asked Jean if this were true. He nodded. "Oh, yes, the Turks understand very well how women should be treated! I was fascinated. For the rest of the voyage, he regaled me with stories of life in the Middle East. He was fourteen years older than I and physically not at all the type of man that I usually found attractive. He was heavyset and bald, but he had an intriguing twinkle in his eye and spoke half a dozen languages fluently. With my distaste for provincialism in all its forms, I liked what I regarded as his worldliness, his facility with languages, and his extensive knowledge of gourmet food and wines. Ruth and I debarked at Bordeaux. Jean, continuing on to Calais, promised he would come to St. Jean-de-Luz to see me...

Since no official document has been found related to the Ruth Paine - Mary Bancroft - Dulles -Michael Paine - Oswald, chain of relationships, at the least, we can convincingly add Dulles to our list of compromised, Warren Commission, key people.

Earl Warren, Albert Jenner, and the man who recommended Jenner, Tom Clark, all compromised by their relations with and prior knowledge of Chicago organized crime principals. Add Hoover for the same reasons and much more, add Gerald Ford for his role as secret FBI spy on the WC, and Dulles for withholding his relationship with the best friend of Michael Paine's mother.....

MARY BANCROFT CHECKS IN

I think I found what we are talking about here Tom,

Or rather it has recently been called to my attention, by both Robert Howard and Bill Simpich, both of whom are plugging away behind the scenes.

I think Bill is working on a new article that should knock some socks off.

While we're still wading through many of the most recently posted Paine documents, and a few stand out as exceptional, this one leads to another, probably even more dynamic document that I have a feeling will be harder to get.

This is an FBI report that makes references to Michael's background, and we quickly learn why he didn't bother to mention to Oswald that his father was the co-founder of the Trotskyite SWP movement in the United States (which published the Militant Magazine that Oswald subscribed to).

As a summary of what the FBI could learn about the Paines, this FBI report included a mention of and excerpts of a memo to Allen Dulles from an "annonymous friend," which Dulles shared with the CIA, who gave a copy to the FBI liason to the CIA (Who would that be?).

This "annonymous friend"of Dulles was also quite friendly with Michael Paine's family, close enough to pass on the tidbit that there were reports that Michael had homosexual tendencies, and the statement that this tidbit of information did not originate from Michael's mother - we can therefore surmise - that much of the other tidbits in the memo did come from a very close friend of Michael's mom - Ruth Forbes Paine Young, who we also learn was married three times, including to Michael's dad - and Arthur Young.

From this I also conclude that Dulles' "annonymous friend" is Mary Bancroft, Ruth Forbes Paine Young's close friend and traveling companion, and former Dulles OSS intimate agent in Swiss during WWII.

I got ten bucks that says Mary Bancroft is Dulles' annonymous source for the December 2, 1963 letter/memo from a friend.

Can anybody find the letter? Brownie Points for anybody who can come up with it.

And I got another ten bucks that USA wins the Ryder Cup, unless Tiger Woods plays. Then they loose and bets off.

Ruth and Michael Paine

Allen Dulles Report from annonymous source (possibly Mary Bancroft?)

"…Oswald spent considerable time watching football games on television and appeared to be an avid football fan."

"Bureau files contain no identifiable subversive information concerning Michael Paine's brother, Cameron Forbes Paine, his stepfather, Arthur M. Young, and his mother, Ruth Fobes Young."

"On 12-6-63 Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) furnished to Bureau Liaison copy of a memorandum dated 12-2-63 which Allen Dulles, former CIA Director, received "from a friend" who was not identified. That memorandum revealed that Michael Paine's mother, Ruth Forbes, has been married three times, Arthur Young being her third husband; that Arthur M. Young is an inventor, having invented improvements to the helicopter, is wealthy and in recent years has devoted himself entirely to research in what is known as "ESP (Extra-Sensory Perception) (he believes that there is another 'force' in the universe-like electricity or similar that has not yet been tapped)." The memorandum which Dulles furnished CIA also contained this statement, "I have also heard, but not from his mother, that Michael had homosexual tendencies, although he did marry and have children." The memorandum from Dulles also contained information that Michael Paine's grandfather was a famous Boston "crackpot."

http://www.maryferre...770&relPageId=4

I'm going to keep booting this post until somebody responsible responds to it.

BK

Edited by William Kelly
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Guest Tom Scully
http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=jamaica+simon+connally&btnG=Search+Archives&hl=en&ned=us&scoring=a

Connolly Plans Cattle Business In Jamaica .

Miami News - Google News Archive - Jan 4, 1973

John Connally, former US Treasury secretary, along with two other American ... start a cattle operation in Jamaica. business associates are Pollard Simon, ...

http://www.google.com/search?q=Pollard%20Simon%20mint&hl=en&ned=us&tbo=u&tbs=bks:1&source=og&sa=N&tab=np

Resort city in the sunbelt: Las Vegas, 1930-2000 - Page 75

Eugene P. Moehring - 2000 - 359 pages - Preview

Milton Prell, who had operated the successful 30-Club in Butte, Montana, during the war, was also a founding partner of the Mint Hotel (1957) downtown. By 1950, the Club Bingo had gone nearly bankrupt when Houston financier A. Pollard Simon (a ...

http://www.google.com/search?tbs=bks%3A1&tbo=1&q=%22on+30+december+1965%2C+there+was+an+internal+c.i%2Ca++request%3A&btnG=Search+Books

David G. Schwartz - 2006 - 570 pages - Snippet view

Corporate involvement on the Strip began in 1951, when principals of the Del E. Webb Corporation, one of the nation's leading builders and the owner of the New York Yankees (a team fittingly started by gamblers), helped Milton Prell ...

books.google.com - Book overview - Add to My Library▼ - In My Library: Change▼

#

Resort city in the sunbelt: Las Vegas, 1930-2000 - Page 75

Eugene P. Moehring - 2000 - 359 pages - Preview

Technically, a group of investors (including alleged Oregon gamblers Al Winter and Milton Hyatt, plus Bobby Morris, Sam Rubin, ... In a master stroke, Prell enticed Del Webb, the Phoenix contractor who earlier had built the Flamingo, ...

books.google.com - Book overview - Add to My Library▼ - In My Library: Change▼

#

Vegas at Odds: Labor Conflict in a Leisure Economy, 1960-1985 - Page 215

James P. Kraft - 2009 - 273 pages - Preview

Webb's associates included LC Jacobson, Milton Prell, and Alfred Winter, who owned the entity that operated the Sahara and the Mint. See Alexander, “What Del Webb Is Up To,” 186. See also Wall Street Journal, May 23, 1969; and Schwartz,

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fwiw, 2 bits: : precursor to ''transcranial magnetic stimulation'' ???

''The arrival of psychocivilisation'' :

http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/44862

__________________________

Jamaica Independence Day August 6th, 1962 (Jamaica)

Kulcha Club, Aug, 2010, Freo :

(edit:add The night was a series of DJ's and musicians with film footage on the screen from the time. Prob seems trivial, but from the Che' concept of ''their america and ours'', perhaps not so)

Edited by John Dolva
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I'm wondering now, why Mary Bancroft, anyone in her family or working at the Wall Street Journal who knew her well, or Mary's close friend, Ruth Paine, or anyone acquainted with her, or Ruth's son, Michael or his wife, Ruth, did NOT volunteer to the Warren Commission or to the FBI or the Dallas P.D. that Mary Bancroft had been an intimate of Allen Dulles? What are the odds that Hoover did not know it? Seems that they were all complicit by their silence...

http://www.google.co...l=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Autobiography of a spy by Mary Bancroft -page 59

1 got a divorce in Reno and in the summer of 1933 sent the children to visit him and went abroad with Ruth Paine. We planned to spend the entire time at St. Jean- de-Luz in France, near the Spanish frontier, for neither of us could envisage a summer that didn't encompass being by the sea.

Early in July we sailed on one of the ships of the French Line bound for Bordeaux. The first night out we were invited to dinner at the captain's table. I sat beside Jean Rufenacht, who was on his way home from Japan after having audited the books of a Swiss silk company with offices in Tokyo. When I asked Jean his nationality, he said, "I'm Swiss," to which I had replied, not too politely I fear, "How dull!" He gave me a quick, speculative glance, and added, "Actually I was born a Turk. My family only acquired Swiss

citizenship later!" This, of course, was much more intriguing. I thought of the Turks as a wild and savage folk who killed unfaithful wives with the most imaginative forms of torture. 1 asked Jean if this were true. He nodded. "Oh, yes, the Turks understand very well how women should be treated! I was fascinated. For the rest of the voyage, he regaled me with stories of life in the Middle East. He was fourteen years older than I and physically not at all the type of man that I usually found attractive. He was heavyset and bald, but he had an intriguing twinkle in his eye and spoke half a dozen languages fluently. With my distaste for provincialism in all its forms, I liked what I regarded as his worldliness, his facility with languages, and his extensive knowledge of gourmet food and wines. Ruth and I debarked at Bordeaux. Jean, continuing on to Calais, promised he would come to St. Jean-de-Luz to see me...

Since no official document has been found related to the Ruth Paine - Mary Bancroft - Dulles -Michael Paine - Oswald, chain of relationships, at the least, we can convincingly add Dulles to our list of compromised, Warren Commission, key people.

Earl Warren, Albert Jenner, and the man who recommended Jenner, Tom Clark, all compromised by their relations with and prior knowledge of Chicago organized crime principals. Add Hoover for the same reasons and much more, add Gerald Ford for his role as secret FBI spy on the WC, and Dulles for withholding his relationship with the best friend of Michael Paine's mother.....

MARY BANCROFT CHECKS IN

I think I found what we are talking about here Tom,

Or rather it has recently been called to my attention, by both Robert Howard and Bill Simpich, both of whom are plugging away behind the scenes.

I think Bill is working on a new article that should knock some socks off.

While we're still wading through many of the most recently posted Paine documents, and a few stand out as exceptional, this one leads to another, probably even more dynamic document that I have a feeling will be harder to get.

This is an FBI report that makes references to Michael's background, and we quickly learn why he didn't bother to mention to Oswald that his father was the co-founder of the Trotskyite SWP movement in the United States (which published the Militant Magazine that Oswald subscribed to).

As a summary of what the FBI could learn about the Paines, this FBI report included a mention of and excerpts of a memo to Allen Dulles from an "annonymous friend," which Dulles shared with the CIA, who gave a copy to the FBI liason to the CIA (Who would that be?).

This "annonymous friend"of Dulles was also quite friendly with Michael Paine's family, close enough to pass on the tidbit that there were reports that Michael had homosexual tendencies, and the statement that this tidbit of information did not originate from Michael's mother - we can therefore surmise - that much of the other tidbits in the memo did come from a very close friend of Michael's mom - Ruth Forbes Paine Young, who we also learn was married three times, including to Michael's dad - and Arthur Young.

From this I also conclude that Dulles' "annonymous friend" is Mary Bancroft, Ruth Forbes Paine Young's close friend and traveling companion, and former Dulles OSS intimate agent in Swiss during WWII.

I got ten bucks that says Mary Bancroft is Dulles' annonymous source for the December 2, 1963 letter/memo from a friend.

Can anybody find the letter? Brownie Points for anybody who can come up with it.

And I got another ten bucks that USA wins the Ryder Cup, unless Tiger Woods plays. Then they loose and bets off.

Ruth and Michael Paine

Allen Dulles Report from annonymous source (possibly Mary Bancroft?)

"…Oswald spent considerable time watching football games on television and appeared to be an avid football fan."

"Bureau files contain no identifiable subversive information concerning Michael Paine's brother, Cameron Forbes Paine, his stepfather, Arthur M. Young, and his mother, Ruth Fobes Young."

"On 12-6-63 Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) furnished to Bureau Liaison copy of a memorandum dated 12-2-63 which Allen Dulles, former CIA Director, received "from a friend" who was not identified. That memorandum revealed that Michael Paine's mother, Ruth Forbes, has been married three times, Arthur Young being her third husband; that Arthur M. Young is an inventor, having invented improvements to the helicopter, is wealthy and in recent years has devoted himself entirely to research in what is known as "ESP (Extra-Sensory Perception) (he believes that there is another 'force' in the universe-like electricity or similar – that has not yet been tapped)." The memorandum which Dulles furnished CIA also contained this statement, "I have also heard, but not from his mother, that Michael had homosexual tendencies, although he did marry and have children." The memorandum from Dulles also contained information that Michael Paine's grandfather was a famous Boston "crackpot."

http://www.maryferre...770&relPageId=4

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http://news.google.c...ed=us&scoring=a

Connolly Plans Cattle Business In Jamaica .

Miami News - Google News Archive - Jan 4, 1973

John Connally, former US Treasury secretary, along with two other American ... start a cattle operation in Jamaica. business associates are Pollard Simon, ...

http://www.google.co...=og&sa=N&tab=np

Resort city in the sunbelt: Las Vegas, 1930-2000 - Page 75

Eugene P. Moehring - 2000 - 359 pages - Preview

Milton Prell, who had operated the successful 30-Club in Butte, Montana, during the war, was also a founding partner of the Mint Hotel (1957) downtown. By 1950, the Club Bingo had gone nearly bankrupt when Houston financier A. Pollard Simon (a ...

http://www.google.co...nG=Search+Books

David G. Schwartz - 2006 - 570 pages - Snippet view

Corporate involvement on the Strip began in 1951, when principals of the Del E. Webb Corporation, one of the nation's leading builders and the owner of the New York Yankees (a team fittingly started by gamblers), helped Milton Prell ...

books.google.com - Book overview - Add to My Library▼ - In My Library: Change▼

#

Resort city in the sunbelt: Las Vegas, 1930-2000 - Page 75

Eugene P. Moehring - 2000 - 359 pages - Preview

Technically, a group of investors (including alleged Oregon gamblers Al Winter and Milton Hyatt, plus Bobby Morris, Sam Rubin, ... In a master stroke, Prell enticed Del Webb, the Phoenix contractor who earlier had built the Flamingo, ...

books.google.com - Book overview - Add to My Library▼ - In My Library: Change▼

#

Vegas at Odds: Labor Conflict in a Leisure Economy, 1960-1985 - Page 215

James P. Kraft - 2009 - 273 pages - Preview

Webb's associates included LC Jacobson, Milton Prell, and Alfred Winter, who owned the entity that operated the Sahara and the Mint. See Alexander, "What Del Webb Is Up To," 186. See also Wall Street Journal, May 23, 1969; and Schwartz,

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Contemporary of Jung:

Willhelm Reich: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Reich

''...was sentenced to two years in prison, and in August 1956, several tons of his publications were burned by the FDA, arguably one of the worst examples of censorship in U.S. history'' (I've also read his laboratory was completely destroyed. Of course one cannot know what wasn't destroyed. His controversial ''orgone accumulator'' was meant to fully shield a person from any exterior influence, a tinfoil hat par excellence (sic))

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I'd like to get a response to this post to make sure some people have read it before it is stepped on.

Thanks,

BK

I'm wondering now, why Mary Bancroft, anyone in her family or working at the Wall Street Journal who knew her well, or Mary's close friend, Ruth Paine, or anyone acquainted with her, or Ruth's son, Michael or his wife, Ruth, did NOT volunteer to the Warren Commission or to the FBI or the Dallas P.D. that Mary Bancroft had been an intimate of Allen Dulles? What are the odds that Hoover did not know it? Seems that they were all complicit by their silence...

http://www.google.co...l=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Autobiography of a spy by Mary Bancroft -page 59

1 got a divorce in Reno and in the summer of 1933 sent the children to visit him and went abroad with Ruth Paine. We planned to spend the entire time at St. Jean- de-Luz in France, near the Spanish frontier, for neither of us could envisage a summer that didn't encompass being by the sea.

Early in July we sailed on one of the ships of the French Line bound for Bordeaux. The first night out we were invited to dinner at the captain's table. I sat beside Jean Rufenacht, who was on his way home from Japan after having audited the books of a Swiss silk company with offices in Tokyo. When I asked Jean his nationality, he said, "I'm Swiss," to which I had replied, not too politely I fear, "How dull!" He gave me a quick, speculative glance, and added, "Actually I was born a Turk. My family only acquired Swiss

citizenship later!" This, of course, was much more intriguing. I thought of the Turks as a wild and savage folk who killed unfaithful wives with the most imaginative forms of torture. 1 asked Jean if this were true. He nodded. "Oh, yes, the Turks understand very well how women should be treated! I was fascinated. For the rest of the voyage, he regaled me with stories of life in the Middle East. He was fourteen years older than I and physically not at all the type of man that I usually found attractive. He was heavyset and bald, but he had an intriguing twinkle in his eye and spoke half a dozen languages fluently. With my distaste for provincialism in all its forms, I liked what I regarded as his worldliness, his facility with languages, and his extensive knowledge of gourmet food and wines. Ruth and I debarked at Bordeaux. Jean, continuing on to Calais, promised he would come to St. Jean-de-Luz to see me...

Since no official document has been found related to the Ruth Paine - Mary Bancroft - Dulles -Michael Paine - Oswald, chain of relationships, at the least, we can convincingly add Dulles to our list of compromised, Warren Commission, key people.

Earl Warren, Albert Jenner, and the man who recommended Jenner, Tom Clark, all compromised by their relations with and prior knowledge of Chicago organized crime principals. Add Hoover for the same reasons and much more, add Gerald Ford for his role as secret FBI spy on the WC, and Dulles for withholding his relationship with the best friend of Michael Paine's mother.....

MARY BANCROFT CHECKS IN

I think I found what we are talking about here Tom,

Or rather it has recently been called to my attention, by both Robert Howard and Bill Simpich, both of whom are plugging away behind the scenes.

I think Bill is working on a new article that should knock some socks off.

While we're still wading through many of the most recently posted Paine documents, and a few stand out as exceptional, this one leads to another, probably even more dynamic document that I have a feeling will be harder to get.

This is an FBI report that makes references to Michael's background, and we quickly learn why he didn't bother to mention to Oswald that his father was the co-founder of the Trotskyite SWP movement in the United States (which published the Militant Magazine that Oswald subscribed to).

As a summary of what the FBI could learn about the Paines, this FBI report included a mention of and excerpts of a memo to Allen Dulles from an "annonymous friend," which Dulles shared with the CIA, who gave a copy to the FBI liason to the CIA (Who would that be?).

This "annonymous friend"of Dulles was also quite friendly with Michael Paine's family, close enough to pass on the tidbit that there were reports that Michael had homosexual tendencies, and the statement that this tidbit of information did not originate from Michael's mother - we can therefore surmise - that much of the other tidbits in the memo did come from a very close friend of Michael's mom - Ruth Forbes Paine Young, who we also learn was married three times, including to Michael's dad - and Arthur Young.

From this I also conclude that Dulles' "annonymous friend" is Mary Bancroft, Ruth Forbes Paine Young's close friend and traveling companion, and former Dulles OSS intimate agent in Swiss during WWII.

I got ten bucks that says Mary Bancroft is Dulles' annonymous source for the December 2, 1963 letter/memo from a friend.

Can anybody find the letter? Brownie Points for anybody who can come up with it.

And I got another ten bucks that USA wins the Ryder Cup, unless Tiger Woods plays. Then they loose and bets off.

Ruth and Michael Paine

Allen Dulles Report from annonymous source (possibly Mary Bancroft?)

"…Oswald spent considerable time watching football games on television and appeared to be an avid football fan."

"Bureau files contain no identifiable subversive information concerning Michael Paine's brother, Cameron Forbes Paine, his stepfather, Arthur M. Young, and his mother, Ruth Fobes Young."

"On 12-6-63 Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) furnished to Bureau Liaison copy of a memorandum dated 12-2-63 which Allen Dulles, former CIA Director, received "from a friend" who was not identified. That memorandum revealed that Michael Paine's mother, Ruth Forbes, has been married three times, Arthur Young being her third husband; that Arthur M. Young is an inventor, having invented improvements to the helicopter, is wealthy and in recent years has devoted himself entirely to research in what is known as "ESP (Extra-Sensory Perception) (he believes that there is another 'force' in the universe-like electricity or similar – that has not yet been tapped)." The memorandum which Dulles furnished CIA also contained this statement, "I have also heard, but not from his mother, that Michael had homosexual tendencies, although he did marry and have children." The memorandum from Dulles also contained information that Michael Paine's grandfather was a famous Boston "crackpot."

http://www.maryferre...770&relPageId=4

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I'd like to see that too.

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I'm going to keep bumpting this post on this thread until somebody responsible responds to it:

I'm wondering now, why Mary Bancroft, anyone in her family or working at the Wall Street Journal who knew her well, or Mary's close friend, Ruth Paine, or anyone acquainted with her, or Ruth's son, Michael or his wife, Ruth, did NOT volunteer to the Warren Commission or to the FBI or the Dallas P.D. that Mary Bancroft had been an intimate of Allen Dulles? What are the odds that Hoover did not know it? Seems that they were all complicit by their silence...

http://www.google.co...l=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Autobiography of a spy by Mary Bancroft -page 59

1 got a divorce in Reno and in the summer of 1933 sent the children to visit him and went abroad with Ruth Paine. We planned to spend the entire time at St. Jean- de-Luz in France, near the Spanish frontier, for neither of us could envisage a summer that didn't encompass being by the sea.

Early in July we sailed on one of the ships of the French Line bound for Bordeaux. The first night out we were invited to dinner at the captain's table. I sat beside Jean Rufenacht, who was on his way home from Japan after having audited the books of a Swiss silk company with offices in Tokyo. When I asked Jean his nationality, he said, "I'm Swiss," to which I had replied, not too politely I fear, "How dull!" He gave me a quick, speculative glance, and added, "Actually I was born a Turk. My family only acquired Swiss

citizenship later!" This, of course, was much more intriguing. I thought of the Turks as a wild and savage folk who killed unfaithful wives with the most imaginative forms of torture. 1 asked Jean if this were true. He nodded. "Oh, yes, the Turks understand very well how women should be treated! I was fascinated. For the rest of the voyage, he regaled me with stories of life in the Middle East. He was fourteen years older than I and physically not at all the type of man that I usually found attractive. He was heavyset and bald, but he had an intriguing twinkle in his eye and spoke half a dozen languages fluently. With my distaste for provincialism in all its forms, I liked what I regarded as his worldliness, his facility with languages, and his extensive knowledge of gourmet food and wines. Ruth and I debarked at Bordeaux. Jean, continuing on to Calais, promised he would come to St. Jean-de-Luz to see me...

Since no official document has been found related to the Ruth Paine - Mary Bancroft - Dulles -Michael Paine - Oswald, chain of relationships, at the least, we can convincingly add Dulles to our list of compromised, Warren Commission, key people.

Earl Warren, Albert Jenner, and the man who recommended Jenner, Tom Clark, all compromised by their relations with and prior knowledge of Chicago organized crime principals. Add Hoover for the same reasons and much more, add Gerald Ford for his role as secret FBI spy on the WC, and Dulles for withholding his relationship with the best friend of Michael Paine's mother.....

MARY BANCROFT CHECKS IN

I think I found what we are talking about here Tom,

Or rather it has recently been called to my attention, by both Robert Howard and Bill Simpich, both of whom are plugging away behind the scenes.

I think Bill is working on a new article that should knock some socks off.

While we're still wading through many of the most recently posted Paine documents, and a few stand out as exceptional, this one leads to another, probably even more dynamic document that I have a feeling will be harder to get.

This is an FBI report that makes references to Michael's background, and we quickly learn why he didn't bother to mention to Oswald that his father was the co-founder of the Trotskyite SWP movement in the United States (which published the Militant Magazine that Oswald subscribed to).

As a summary of what the FBI could learn about the Paines, this FBI report included a mention of and excerpts of a memo to Allen Dulles from an "annonymous friend," which Dulles shared with the CIA, who gave a copy to the FBI liason to the CIA (Who would that be?).

This "annonymous friend"of Dulles was also quite friendly with Michael Paine's family, close enough to pass on the tidbit that there were reports that Michael had homosexual tendencies, and the statement that this tidbit of information did not originate from Michael's mother - we can therefore surmise - that much of the other tidbits in the memo did come from a very close friend of Michael's mom - Ruth Forbes Paine Young, who we also learn was married three times, including to Michael's dad - and Arthur Young.

From this I also conclude that Dulles' "annonymous friend" is Mary Bancroft, Ruth Forbes Paine Young's close friend and traveling companion, and former Dulles OSS intimate agent in Swiss during WWII.

I got ten bucks that says Mary Bancroft is Dulles' annonymous source for the December 2, 1963 letter/memo from a friend.

Can anybody find the letter? Brownie Points for anybody who can come up with it.

And I got another ten bucks that USA wins the Ryder Cup, unless Tiger Woods plays. Then they loose and bets off.

Ruth and Michael Paine

Allen Dulles Report from annonymous source (possibly Mary Bancroft?)

"…Oswald spent considerable time watching football games on television and appeared to be an avid football fan."

"Bureau files contain no identifiable subversive information concerning Michael Paine's brother, Cameron Forbes Paine, his stepfather, Arthur M. Young, and his mother, Ruth Fobes Young."

"On 12-6-63 Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) furnished to Bureau Liaison copy of a memorandum dated 12-2-63 which Allen Dulles, former CIA Director, received "from a friend" who was not identified. That memorandum revealed that Michael Paine's mother, Ruth Forbes, has been married three times, Arthur Young being her third husband; that Arthur M. Young is an inventor, having invented improvements to the helicopter, is wealthy and in recent years has devoted himself entirely to research in what is known as "ESP (Extra-Sensory Perception) (he believes that there is another 'force' in the universe-like electricity or similar – that has not yet been tapped)." The memorandum which Dulles furnished CIA also contained this statement, "I have also heard, but not from his mother, that Michael had homosexual tendencies, although he did marry and have children." The memorandum from Dulles also contained information that Michael Paine's grandfather was a famous Boston "crackpot."

http://www.maryferre...770&relPageId=4

I'm going to keep booting this post until somebody responsible responds to it.

BK

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I'm going to keep bumpting this post on this thread until somebody responsible responds to it:

I'm wondering now, why Mary Bancroft, anyone in her family or working at the Wall Street Journal who knew her well, or Mary's close friend, Ruth Paine, or anyone acquainted with her, or Ruth's son, Michael or his wife, Ruth, did NOT volunteer to the Warren Commission or to the FBI or the Dallas P.D. that Mary Bancroft had been an intimate of Allen Dulles? What are the odds that Hoover did not know it? Seems that they were all complicit by their silence...

http://www.google.co...l=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Autobiography of a spy by Mary Bancroft -page 59

1 got a divorce in Reno and in the summer of 1933 sent the children to visit him and went abroad with Ruth Paine. We planned to spend the entire time at St. Jean- de-Luz in France, near the Spanish frontier, for neither of us could envisage a summer that didn't encompass being by the sea.

Early in July we sailed on one of the ships of the French Line bound for Bordeaux. The first night out we were invited to dinner at the captain's table. I sat beside Jean Rufenacht, who was on his way home from Japan after having audited the books of a Swiss silk company with offices in Tokyo. When I asked Jean his nationality, he said, "I'm Swiss," to which I had replied, not too politely I fear, "How dull!" He gave me a quick, speculative glance, and added, "Actually I was born a Turk. My family only acquired Swiss

citizenship later!" This, of course, was much more intriguing. I thought of the Turks as a wild and savage folk who killed unfaithful wives with the most imaginative forms of torture. 1 asked Jean if this were true. He nodded. "Oh, yes, the Turks understand very well how women should be treated! I was fascinated. For the rest of the voyage, he regaled me with stories of life in the Middle East. He was fourteen years older than I and physically not at all the type of man that I usually found attractive. He was heavyset and bald, but he had an intriguing twinkle in his eye and spoke half a dozen languages fluently. With my distaste for provincialism in all its forms, I liked what I regarded as his worldliness, his facility with languages, and his extensive knowledge of gourmet food and wines. Ruth and I debarked at Bordeaux. Jean, continuing on to Calais, promised he would come to St. Jean-de-Luz to see me...

Since no official document has been found related to the Ruth Paine - Mary Bancroft - Dulles -Michael Paine - Oswald, chain of relationships, at the least, we can convincingly add Dulles to our list of compromised, Warren Commission, key people.

Earl Warren, Albert Jenner, and the man who recommended Jenner, Tom Clark, all compromised by their relations with and prior knowledge of Chicago organized crime principals. Add Hoover for the same reasons and much more, add Gerald Ford for his role as secret FBI spy on the WC, and Dulles for withholding his relationship with the best friend of Michael Paine's mother.....

MARY BANCROFT CHECKS IN

I think I found what we are talking about here Tom,

Or rather it has recently been called to my attention, by both Robert Howard and Bill Simpich, both of whom are plugging away behind the scenes.

I think Bill is working on a new article that should knock some socks off.

While we're still wading through many of the most recently posted Paine documents, and a few stand out as exceptional, this one leads to another, probably even more dynamic document that I have a feeling will be harder to get.

This is an FBI report that makes references to Michael's background, and we quickly learn why he didn't bother to mention to Oswald that his father was the co-founder of the Trotskyite SWP movement in the United States (which published the Militant Magazine that Oswald subscribed to).

As a summary of what the FBI could learn about the Paines, this FBI report included a mention of and excerpts of a memo to Allen Dulles from an "annonymous friend," which Dulles shared with the CIA, who gave a copy to the FBI liason to the CIA (Who would that be?).

This "annonymous friend"of Dulles was also quite friendly with Michael Paine's family, close enough to pass on the tidbit that there were reports that Michael had homosexual tendencies, and the statement that this tidbit of information did not originate from Michael's mother - we can therefore surmise - that much of the other tidbits in the memo did come from a very close friend of Michael's mom - Ruth Forbes Paine Young, who we also learn was married three times, including to Michael's dad - and Arthur Young.

From this I also conclude that Dulles' "annonymous friend" is Mary Bancroft, Ruth Forbes Paine Young's close friend and traveling companion, and former Dulles OSS intimate agent in Swiss during WWII.

I got ten bucks that says Mary Bancroft is Dulles' annonymous source for the December 2, 1963 letter/memo from a friend.

Can anybody find the letter? Brownie Points for anybody who can come up with it.

And I got another ten bucks that USA wins the Ryder Cup, unless Tiger Woods plays. Then they loose and bets off.

Ruth and Michael Paine

Allen Dulles Report from annonymous source (possibly Mary Bancroft?)

http://www.maryferre...sPageId=1540165

"…Oswald spent considerable time watching football games on television and appeared to be an avid football fan."

"Bureau files contain no identifiable subversive information concerning Michael Paine's brother, Cameron Forbes Paine, his stepfather, Arthur M. Young, and his mother, Ruth Fobes Young."

"On 12-6-63 Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) furnished to Bureau Liaison copy of a memorandum dated 12-2-63 which Allen Dulles, former CIA Director, received "from a friend" who was not identified. That memorandum revealed that Michael Paine's mother, Ruth Forbes, has been married three times, Arthur Young being her third husband; that Arthur M. Young is an inventor, having invented improvements to the helicopter, is wealthy and in recent years has devoted himself entirely to research in what is known as "ESP (Extra-Sensory Perception) (he believes that there is another 'force' in the universe-like electricity or similar – that has not yet been tapped)." The memorandum which Dulles furnished CIA also contained this statement, "I have also heard, but not from his mother, that Michael had homosexual tendencies, although he did marry and have children." The memorandum from Dulles also contained information that Michael Paine's grandfather was a famous Boston "crackpot."

http://www.maryferre...770&relPageId=4

I'm going to keep booting this post until somebody responsible responds to it.

BK

Well, while your waiting you really should read this, irrespective of the author's politics, my interest centered on his focus on the Quaker's in Cuba........

http://cubanstories....guayaberas.html

Also, check out this MRR Document

NO TITLE

Society of Friends of the Cuban People......

SOURCE COMMENT - Dr Francisco QUIROGA, F. anti-Castro Cuban has been selected by leaders of the Society to lead a campaign to stimulate support, publicity and sympathy for the Society’s program. Frank BERNARDINO, anti-Castro Cuban exile is the probable leader of the Society in Mexico.

http://www.maryferre....do?docId=80837

To me, there is nothing in the document that gives the impression the MRR individuals above, have any relationship

with the Quaker American Friends Committee's, but I certainly do not know that for a fact.

It would seem to be a valid area of inquiry.

Edited by Robert Howard
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Have we (can we?) conclude that the Paines had to be part of the conspiracy due to their role in getting LHO his job at the TSBD?

Is there a consensus on this? I know we have discussed this in a different thread but I wanted to see if we could "cut to the chase" and reach a consensus on this.

I do not believe that Ruth Paine was a conspirator. However, like Don I feel that she was used to set up Oswald. It is not a coincidence that both Oswald and Paine were members of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU). My research on Paine suggests that Paine was a genuine political activist. This was based on her Quaker beliefs. Since the assassination she has continued this political activity. For example, over the last couple of years she has been working for a Nicaraguan relief group in St. Petersburg, Florida.

Hoover of course hated the ACLU. I doubt very much if the ACLU really represented Oswald’s true beliefs. Nor do I believe he was a genuine member of the Socialist Workers Party, Congress of Racial Equality or the Fair Play for Cuba Committee (all organizations hated by Hoover).

It was George De Mohrenschildt who brought the Oswalds into contact with Ruth Paine. I suspect this was all part of the set-up. The original story was to suggest a left-wing conspiracy to kill Kennedy. However, LBJ was not willing to go along with this and insisted on the lone gunman theory.

Therefore, the original story had to be changed. I imagine Paine was offered the same deal as Marina Oswald. They were told that the FBI had evidence that the two women was involved in the conspiracy to kill JFK. However, this would not used if they were willing to support the Oswald as lone gunman theory. By this time Oswald was dead and they could not do anything to help him. Therefore they agreed the deal.

I suppose it is possible that just before Ruth and Marina die they will reveal what happened. However, I suspect they will prefer to go to their death with their secret. After all, it does not reflect too well on them (although their behaviour is fully understandable).

John, I think you are mistaken about Marina. Even today, she adamantly stands behind her WC testimony, with the exception of her realization that the crime was indeed a conspiracy. I have not spoken with her personally but I know people who have and she not only confirms the truth of what she said, but stated unequivocally that no attempt was ever made to threaten her or influence her testimony.

If there was a single sentence she uttered that was the result of coercion, there is no reason on Earth why she wouldn't talk about it now. I really don't think she is too concerned that the FBI will be at her door to arrest her if she does.

The only reason that some people want to call her a xxxx, is that her testimony contradicts their theories.

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If there was a single sentence she [Marina Oswald] uttered that was the result of coercion, there is no reason on Earth why she wouldn't talk about it now. I really don't think she is too concerned that the FBI will be at her door to arrest her if she does. The only reason that some people want to call her a xxxx, is that her testimony contradicts their theories.

Hell must have just frozen over! Robert "Z285" Harris and I agree on something! Holy mackerel!

Edited by David Von Pein
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