New Special on FoxNews featuring John Orr and Cyril Wecht

[Ron Ecker]

I was flabbergasted a while ago when John Orr told Bill Hemmer on FoxNews that he had proved beyond any reasonable doubt that there was a second shooter. And excuse my ignorance, but I had never even heard of John Orr.

Hemmer hosts a JFK special tomorrow night on FoxNews. I had no intention of watching it, but now maybe I will. It could be more than just the same old mainstream media crap, if it has more (which I doubt) on the conspiracy side than John Orr.

Here is a link to Orr's article on the FoxNews website:

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/11/08/how-investigated-president-john-f-kennedy-assassination/

Edited November 14, 2013 by Pat Speer

[Ron Ecker]

On second thought (I'm just talking to myself), I wouldn't doubt that Orr is simply being used so the network can claim it has covered the conspiracy side. If there was any serious consideration of conspiracy, why wouldn't they interview a recognized, knowledgeable CT researcher instead of the most obscure (to me) researcher they could find? Choosing Orr for air time is to my mind an actual mocking of CT researchers. It's telling us, "There, we've let you present your side." Ha ha ha ha ha. Or maybe there will actually be a short, inconsequential clip or two of other researchers. I don't know, I won't be watching this latest network fraud.

[William Kelly]

When I first read the reports on the ARRB-DOJ-FBI-NARA agreements to test CE567 it became apparent that Orr was behind it. He was the chief anti-trust attorney in Atlanta, who studied the ballistics on his own time.

Orr suggested that the bullet that hit the President in the head and shattered, was not the same composition as the full-metal copper jacketed bullet like CE 399, found nearly intact on a stretcher at Parkland and deemed the bullet that did all of the non-fatal wounds in both JFK and Connally.

DOJ Memo Jan. 4, 1996 from Acting Chief of Gen. Litigation and Legal Section to John C.

Keeney, Acting Asst. Attorney Gen. Criminal Division

“John T. Orr, Jr., Chief of the Antitrust Division’s Atlanta Field Office, wrote to the Attorney General in April t advise her of his conclusions that President Kennedy was killed by a second gunman acting in concert with Lee Harvey Oswald. John Hogan, Chief of Staff in the Office of the Attorney General, referred Mr. Orr’s submission, which Mr. Orr indicated was the result of research conducted during non-duty hours, to the Criminal Division for review.”

“We met with Mr. Orr, while he was in Washington to receive a Distinguished Service Award from the Attorney General, and we have since reviewed the report which he prepared. It is our opinion that Mr. Orr’s observations justify the performance of certain modest preliminary investigative measures to test the foundation of his assassination conspiracy theory.”

“Jurisdiction. Federal criminal statutes covering the assassination of the President and assaults against federal officials generally were enacted after 1963. Accordingly, the criminal statutes of Texas represent the best, and probably only viable, mechanism for prosecution of any living person determined to have been involved in the assassination of President Kennedy. Despite the lack of apparent federal prosecutorial jurisdiction over the November 1963 assassination of President Kennedy, Congress and the Executive Branch have historically recognized Department of Justice investigative jurisdiction over the matter, concurrent with Texas investigative jurisdiction. The Federal Bureau of Investigation has been deemed the appropriate federal investigative agency for this matter, partly in recognition of the potential appearance of a conflict of interest which the Secret Service, as the protective force at the time of the assassination, would confront.”

“...It is our view that the Department has retained investigative jurisdiction over the assassination, though such investigation is restricted to activities which are not based upon the expectation of an eventual federal prosecution. Thus, the examination of evidence in federal possession is seemingly appropriate, which obtaining evidence by grand jury subpoena would like be inappropriate. This position was adopted by the Division and endorsed b the Office of the Deputy Attorney General when we declined to seek a court order for exhumation of former Governor Connally’s body following allegations that bullet fragments remaining in his body from the incident would reveal, by weight or composition, the existence of additional bullets.”

“Mr. Orr’s Theory. Mr. Orr has challenged the Warren Commission and House Select Committee trajectory findings. It is his view that Mr. Oswald and a conspirator fired two distinctly different types of ammunition from different locations in a coordinated attack. He believes that Oswald shot both the President and Governor Connally, while a marksman shot the President once in the center of the back of the head, actually causing the President’s death.”

“Mr. Orr believes that the second gunman assassinated the President with a single shot to the President’s head, fired after Oswald’s second shot. He believes that the ammunition used was very different from Oswald’s – a soft-nose or hollow-point bullet very different from the military style full-metal-jacket bullets which have been attributed to Oswald. He believes that the trajectory and impact of this “third shot” proves conclusively that neither Oswald’s ammunition nor Oswald’s location could have been the source of that fatal shot. Mr. Orr cites the fragment pattern documented by x-rays, in general, and the presence of fragments (visible in x-rays), outside the skull next to the entry would, or a type associated with soft-nose ammunition.”

While Mr. Orr has suggested rather complex measures, such as computer recreation of the assassination, to confirm his theory, he has also proposed certain investigative tasks which are relatively simple and inexpensive but which have the potential of confirming or refuting the foundation of his theory.”

“…We endorse Mr. Orr’s proposal that a complete study of the bullet and bullet fragments housed at the National Archives be conducted, to include their color, texgture, density, and shape, and the presence of any foreign matter contamination. Alleged fiber evidence embedded in the bullet nose recovered from the front seat of the limousine should have characteristics consistent with the President’s shirt collar, tie, and tie liner – thus establishing a different trajectory than that previously identified.”

“A comparison of suspected pieces of the same round should be conducted. If Mr. Orr’s theory is correct, evaluation of identified wounds and bullet fragments should confirm the use of two very different types of ammunition, suggesting but not proving the involvement of two shooters....”

“...If the fabric evidence confirms Mr. Orr’s view of the likely trajectory of the ‘first shot’ and the ammunition ‘footprint’ and residue confirm that the ‘third bullet’ was very different in composition from the others, we believe that there will then be a sufficient basis to further test Mr. Orr’s theory.”

[Pat Speer]

Orr is wrong. He says the tests on 567 were inconclusive. As detailed in my appearance at the Wecht Conference, the tests identified the material on 567 as human skin. Forensic scientists agree that missing skin is indicative of a bullet's exit. The missing skin noted both in Parkland and during the autopsy was at the large defect on Kennedy's head. Forensic scientists agree that one of the least likely materials to be found on a bullet is skin, and that skin from a small entrance wound on the back of the head would not adhere to a bullet tumbling through the skull. This indicates--pretty much proves scientifically--that the fatal bullet impacted at the supposed exit. This means the entrance wound on the back of the head came from a second shot.

And this in turn suggests two shooters.

P.S. I'm virtually certain that I mailed something out to Orr, via the Atlanta FBI, 7-8 years ago. But I can't remember if I received a response.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Pat Speer

[Don Roberdeau]

.... Good Day.... I have JOHN ORR's report, "Analysis of Gunshots in Dealey Plaza on November 22, 1963," that he also sent to JANET RENO, and it is freely available + downloadable for you, here....

http://www.longislandfirearms.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=20446

Best Regards in Research

+++Don


Donald Roberdeau
United States Navy
U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, plank walker
Sooner, or later, The Truth emerges Clearly

For your key considerations + independent determinations....

Homepage: President KENNEDY "Men of Courage" speech, and Assassination Evidence, Witnesses, Photographers, Suspects, + Outstanding Researchers Discoveries + Key Considerations.... http://droberdeau.blogspot.com/2009/08/1-men-of-courage-jfk-assassination_09.html


The Dealey Plaza Detailed Map: Detailing 11-22-63 Victims Precise Locations + Reactions, Evidence, Witnesses Locations, Photographers, Suspected Bullet Trajectories, Important Information + Key Considerations, in One Convenient Resource....

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/3966/dppluschartsupdated1111.gif
(updated map, + new information)


Visual Report: The First Bullet Impact Into President Kennedy: While JFK was Still Hidden Under the "magic-limbed-ricochet-tree"....

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/2446/206cropjfk1102308ms8.gif


Visual Report: Reality Versus C.A.D. : the Real World, versus, Garbage-in, Garbage-out.... http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/5066/jsf.gif


Discovery: "Very Close JFK Assassination Witness ROSEMARY WILLIS
Zapruder Film Documented 2nd Headsnap: West, Ultrafast, and
Directly Towards the Grassy Knoll"....
http://droberdeau.blogspot.com/2011/01/discovery-close-jfk-assassination.html


T ogether
E veryone
A chieves
M ore


For the United States:

http://www.dhs.gov

Edited November 10, 2013 by Don Roberdeau

[Anthony DeFiore]

And it's on FOX News and we give it any credence?

[Ron Ecker]

And it's on FOX News and we give it any credence?

FoxNews is going to pretend that Orr gives its program credence, i.e. presenting the conspiracy side, FoxNews' motto being "fair and balanced" (with the newly added "and unafraid").

[William Kelly]

.... Good Day.... I have JOHN ORR's report, "Analysis of Gunshots in Dealey Plaza on November 22, 1963," that he also sent to JANET RENO, and it is freely available + downloadable for you, here....

http://www.longislandfirearms.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=20446

Best Regards in Research

+++Don

Donald Roberdeau

United States Navy

U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, plank walker

Sooner, or later, The Truth emerges Clearly

For your key considerations + independent determinations....

Homepage: President KENNEDY "Men of Courage" speech, and Assassination Evidence, Witnesses, Photographers, Suspects, + Outstanding Researchers Discoveries + Key Considerations.... http://droberdeau.blogspot.com/2009/08/1-men-of-courage-jfk-assassination_09.html

The Dealey Plaza Detailed Map: Detailing 11-22-63 Victims Precise Locations + Reactions, Evidence, Witnesses Locations, Photographers, Suspected Bullet Trajectories, Important Information + Key Considerations, in One Convenient Resource....

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/3966/dppluschartsupdated1111.gif

(updated map, + new information)

Visual Report: The First Bullet Impact Into President Kennedy: While JFK was Still Hidden Under the "magic-limbed-ricochet-tree"....

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/2446/206cropjfk1102308ms8.gif

Visual Report: Reality Versus C.A.D. : the Real World, versus, Garbage-in, Garbage-out.... http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/5066/jsf.gif

Discovery: "Very Close JFK Assassination Witness ROSEMARY WILLIS

Zapruder Film Documented 2nd Headsnap: West, Ultrafast, and

Directly Towards the Grassy Knoll"....

http://droberdeau.blogspot.com/2011/01/discovery-close-jfk-assassination.html

T ogether

E veryone

A chieves

M ore

For the United States:

http://www.dhs.gov

Thanks for that Don, without having read the report I misunderstood what he was saying.

At the urging of Orr, the DOJ/FBI/NARA/ARRB "tested" the bullet fragments CE567 for DNA and came up "inconclusive" five years later, when in fact, Orr didn't request the DNA testing, he requested that the material embedded in the fragments be identified as either flesh and blood or body material or cloth from jfk's jacket, shirt or tie. If the former, the fragment came from the head shot, and if the latter, from the back-neck shot - which would scientifically disprove the Single Bullet theory.

BK

[Pat Speer]

I took some notes on the program and added it to my new blog tracking the media's coverage of the assassination anniversary.

November 9: a special news report entitled Fox News reporting: 50 years of Questions premieres on--no surprise--Fox News. This program is a surprise to say the least. Gayle Newman says she thought she heard shots from the knoll. Bill O'Reilly and Mark Lane are interviewed as if they are equals. The narrator says the Warren Commission "controlled" the investigation. HSCA Deputy Chief Counsel Gary Cornwell says the Warren Commission "flat-out lied to us" and that they "never intended to investigate." Cornwell then reads aloud the Katzenbach memo. O'Reilly then counters that Oswald was undoubtedly guilty, but that he might have been working with someone. Lane then says the CIA was behind it; Cornwell says it was probably the mob. In the first 20 minutes alone, the program shows sound-bites from interviews with Ruth Paine, Clint Hill, William and Gayle Newman, James Tague. Jim Leavelle, Bill O'Reilly, Mark Lane, Gary Mack, Gary Cornwell, Robert Dallek, and Andy Purdy, who tells the viewers about Patrick Dean, the Dallas policeman in charge of the security of Oswald's transfer, who failed a polygraph test. Lane then tells of Ruby's relationship with the FBI and Cornwell talks about his ties to organized crime. David Kaiser and Dallek then talk about the CIA/mafia plots to kill Castro. Cornwell talk about the mob some more. Carlos Marcello and Jack Van Landingham are discussed. And that is it for the first half hour.

In the second half hour, they have a firearms examiner tell us the single-bullet theory makes sense. They resurrect some footage of Arlen Specter from 2003 to support this contention. They then have Dr. Cyril Wecht argue against the theory. They introduce Wecht to the theory of John Orr, in which Kennedy is hit at frame 204 of the Zapruder film. They then use the latest technology in which 2d images are made 3d to create a digital reproduction of frame 204. They then show us Kennedy's and Connally's position within the car at this time...from above. Well, this is a surprise. They conclude that a single-bullet shot at this time aligns with Connally's left shoulder, not right armpit. They then conclude that just a slight amount of deflection could lift this bullet over Connally's right shoulder, and on to the windshield frame. They then trace back the head wounds to the roof of the County Records Building. Orr then maintains that there were four shots and that the last shot was fired by Lee Harvey Oswald about 3/4 of a second after the fatal head shot. They then move on to the x-rays. Wecht maintains that the "snowflaking pattern" seen in the president's brain on the x-rays is not consistent with full-metal jacket ammunition. Orr then says it was a soft-nosed hunting bullet. Dr. Michael Baden is then wheeled out to say that this just isn't so. He blows absolute smoke. "Whether it's soft-nosed or hard-nosed, fragments will develop if the bullet strikes hard bone, skull, and be left behind. That's typical for military ammunition." They then bring Lucien Haag, the firearms examiner defending the single-bullet theory, back onto the show to demonstrate how a melon will stay intact when struck by a full metal jacket bullet, but blow up, with 6-7 metal fragments flying out the back, when struck by a soft-nosed bullet. They then go to commercial.

When they return, they discuss the autopsy. They have Dr. Wecht and Dr. Baden take turns discussing the horror that was the original autopsy. While they do so, they show the back of the head photo, alongside Robert Groden's photo-shopped version of the photo showing what it really looked like. They, of course, fail to tell their viewers that this isn't a real photo. Heck, maybe the producers don't even know it isn't real. They then show the Warren Commission's drawings of Kenendy's wounds, CE 385, 386, and 388. They show the gory stare-of-death photo. They have Clint Hill explain why the body was hurried out of Dallas. They show Wecht looking at the right profile autopsy photo. They later show the back wound photo. They have Andy Purdy join in to attack the competence of Dr. Humes. Baden then repeats his old lie about the photographs. Interviewer John Hemmer starts the story "There was a naval photographer." Baden then finishes his thought: "who was trained to take autopsy photos. And then a Secret Service person comes up to him and asks him if he has authorization to be there, confiscates the camera, exposes the film, and chases him out of the autopsy room." As he says this they show...the mystery photo! (I suspect this is its network debut.) But the mystery photo is not shown in its entirety. For some reason, they've placed it on the middle of a table, with other photos around it and on top of it along its edge. This serves to conceal the bullet hole observed at autopsy that is the topic of so much discussion on this website. Is this a coincidence? Baden continues: "They have somebody else from the Secret Service who had never taken photos of a dead body, and he doesn't take the right photos." They then try to blame this on the Kennedys, and their fear the public would find out about the president's small adrenals, and his Addison's disease. They quote Dallek about Kennedy's use of drugs. They then mention that the Warren Commission "withheld gruesome autopsy photos and x-rays from evidence." As the narrator says this, moreover, they show the bloody color versions of the left profile photo, the top-of-the-head photo, and the right profile photo. They then return to Orr, and claim he noticed something the HSCA dismissed, and that he says the "6.5 mm circular disc" proves the fatal head shot was not fired by Oswald's rifle. They ask Baden about this "disc" and he says "That was just part of the bullet fragment." Wecht then claims that it "was a different kind of bullet that has such a circular disc at its base which can then become detached upon impact with the skull." As he says this they show the right profile photo yet again. Orr then repeats that it was a soft-nosed or hollow-point bullet. The narrator then blows some total smoke: "Orr found another piece of evidence that points to a second shooter: a bone fracture in the president's back. Dr. Wecht, who had never considered a bone fracture, agrees." Wecht then says "You can see a clear defect there at the first thoracic vertebrae." The narrator then explains that Orr believes a descending bullet was deflected off the first rib, and shot upwards from the throat. The narrator then points out that the Warren Commission held that the bullet was un-deflected, and never hit bone. As the audience is shown CE 385, he says, "But Orr says the panel's measurements were wrong. Instead, he used the HSCA's dimensions which placed the wound about 4 inches lower." (WRONG. It was about 2.) Wecht then says that "the only thing that's gonna cause it to be deflected would be something firm, and here that means bone." Baden then says "I disagree with that. It was not thick enough to cause any kind of bullet deflection." The program then cuts to Andy Purdy defending the single-bullet theory, and saying he never thought he would be converted, but his HSCA experience told him it was possible. Baden then says "I examined Governor Connally's back,. The bullet went in sideways, which would indicate it struck something first." They then have Orr quote Connally's doctor Shaw to discredit Baden. Orr then says that Connally's clothes and x-rays suggest he was hit by a pristine bullet, and that Connally's wrist was exposed and probably hit at Z-312. Orr proposes that this shot was fired from the roof of the Country Records Building, and that it hit Kennedy in the cowlick before striking Connally in the wrist. (They skip entirely--perhaps for good reason--that the bullet fragments were subjected to neutron activation analysis, and that this suggested a connection between the fragment found behind Kennedy's right eye, and the fragment found by the driver's seat, but no connection to the wrist fragment and magic bullet.)

When they come back from commercial, they mention that the testing on the material found on the bullet fragment was never completed. They then show Abe Zapruder, and then Gary Mack on the pedestal where Zapruder once stood. He discusses the missing frames in the film. They show the head-shot in slow-motion to demonstrate just how much can be shown in four frames. They then show the missing frames and claim the jiggle effect at 209 suggests Kennedy was hit at 204. Orr then jumps the shark, and claims exhibit 567, the mangled bullet nose covered with skin, was the bullet striking Kennedy in the back and exiting his throat, only to break up on the windshield strut. (They fail to mention, of course, that there were two impacts on the windshield, and that most of this bullet was missing. The program also fails to ask Orr to explain CE 399, and what happened to the bullet striking Kennedy in the head.) Orr then relates that he was working for the Justice Department in its anti-trust division when he wrote up his proposal to test the material on 567. (It is my recollection that he thought it was cloth from Connally's jacket, but, based upon this program, I can't see how he would think such a thing. Perhaps, then, his thinking has evolved.) Orr then claims that his proposal so impressed Janet Reno that he was transferred to the FBI to work on this matter. Orr then claims that the FBI objected to this because he was not impartial. The program then interviews Dr. Michael Zimmerman, the pathologist who examined 567 for the FBI. He says the fragments of material on the bullet nose were "dried out and mummified. They were all maybe two or three millimeters in their greatest dimension. And I thought it would be worthwhile to re-hyrdate them for microscopic examination." He then relates "It was human skin and some muscle tissue. It could be literally from anywhere on the body." Orr then asks if it could be scalp, to which Zimmerman replies "I didn't find any hair." Orr then asks if it could be from the wrist, to which Zimmerman says there's nothing wrong with investigating. Dr. Wecht then returns to tell us there are new DNA tests which can tell us where this skin came from, and that this evidence should be re-evaluated. Orr then points out that the fibrous material in 567 was not tested by the FBI, even though that was what the HSCA had long ago asked to be tested. I take from this that he thinks that if they can identify the fibers as coming from the back of Kennedy's jacket, then they can prove his theory. They then ask Baden if he'd be opposed to further tests and he says no.

The producers of the program don't seem to realize that for Orr's theory to be true, the skin on 567 would have to have come from Kennedy's back or throat--unusually small wounds with little missing skin. No one interviewed seems to realize that it's being SKIN is the key to understanding what happened. Still, all in all, this program represents a HUGE STEP forward!

[Thomas Graves]

Orr is wrong. He says the tests on 567 were inconclusive. As detailed in my appearance at the Wecht Conference, the tests identified the material on 567 as human skin. Forensic scientists agree that missing skin is indicative of a bullet's exit. The missing skin noted both in Parkland and during the autopsy was at the large defect on Kennedy's head. Forensic scientists agree that one of the least likely materials to be found on a bullet is skin, and that skin from a small entrance wound on the back of the head would not adhere to a bullet tumbling through the skull. This indicates--pretty much proves scientifically--that the fatal bullet impacted at the supposed exit. This means the entrance wound on the back of the head came from a second shot.

And this in turn suggests two shooters.

P.S. I'm virtually certain that I mailed something out to Orr, via the Atlanta FBI, 7-8 years ago. But I can't remember if I received a response.

Pat,

By "from a second shot" I suppose you mean "from a second head shot" which hit, from the rear, what was left of JFK's head.

Do you think this second head shot came from the TSBD, the roof of the County Records building, or where?

Do you think this second head shot hit JFK 3/4 of a second after the fatal frontal head shot?

Thanks,

--Tommy

Edited November 15, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[Pat Speer]

Orr is wrong. He says the tests on 567 were inconclusive. As detailed in my appearance at the Wecht Conference, the tests identified the material on 567 as human skin. Forensic scientists agree that missing skin is indicative of a bullet's exit. The missing skin noted both in Parkland and during the autopsy was at the large defect on Kennedy's head. Forensic scientists agree that one of the least likely materials to be found on a bullet is skin, and that skin from a small entrance wound on the back of the head would not adhere to a bullet tumbling through the skull. This indicates--pretty much proves scientifically--that the fatal bullet impacted at the supposed exit. This means the entrance wound on the back of the head came from a second shot.

And this in turn suggests two shooters.

P.S. I'm virtually certain that I mailed something out to Orr, via the Atlanta FBI, 7-8 years ago. But I can't remember if I received a response.

Pat,

By "from a second shot" I suppose you mean "from a second head shot" which hit, from the rear, what was left of JFK's head.

Do you think this second head shot came from the TSBD, the roof of the County Records building, or where?

Do you think this second head shot hit JFK 3/4 of a second after the fatal frontal head shot?

Thanks,

--Tommy

I suspect there was more than one shot at Z-224 (a low-velocity shot from the roof of the Dal-Tex entering low on the back of Kennedy's head and exiting his throat while a near simultaneous shot hits Connally in the armpit). I suspect the rifle firing these bullets was a semi-automatic equipped with a silencer.

[Thomas Graves]

Orr is wrong. He says the tests on 567 were inconclusive. As detailed in my appearance at the Wecht Conference, the tests identified the material on 567 as human skin. Forensic scientists agree that missing skin is indicative of a bullet's exit. The missing skin noted both in Parkland and during the autopsy was at the large defect on Kennedy's head. Forensic scientists agree that one of the least likely materials to be found on a bullet is skin, and that skin from a small entrance wound on the back of the head would not adhere to a bullet tumbling through the skull. This indicates--pretty much proves scientifically--that the fatal bullet impacted at the supposed exit. This means the entrance wound on the back of the head came from a second shot.

And this in turn suggests two shooters.

P.S. I'm virtually certain that I mailed something out to Orr, via the Atlanta FBI, 7-8 years ago. But I can't remember if I received a response.

Pat,

By "from a second shot" I suppose you mean "from a second head shot" which hit, from the rear, what was left of JFK's head.

Do you think this second head shot came from the TSBD, the roof of the County Records building, or where?

Do you think this second head shot hit JFK 3/4 of a second after the fatal frontal head shot?

Thanks,

--Tommy

I suspect there was more than one shot at Z-224 (a low-velocity shot from the roof of the Dal-Tex entering low on the back of Kennedy's head and exiting his throat while a near simultaneous shot hits Connally in the armpit). I suspect the rifle firing these bullets was a semi-automatic equipped with a silencer.

Thanks, Pat.

But that's not the question I asked.

Or is it?

The question I asked was about the shot you were referring to when you said "from a second shot" in an earlier post. I'm trying to figure out if by that phrase you meant "from the second head shot."

I'm trying to figure out if you think that JFK was hit in the head by two, and only two, bullets, the first one in the front of the head and the second one in the back of the head; the first one at Z-313 and the second one a few frames later.

What do your low-velocity, silenced, semi-automatic shots at Z-224 have to do with these two shots which must have happened around Z-313?

Thank you,

--Tommy

Edited November 15, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[Pat Speer]

Orr is wrong. He says the tests on 567 were inconclusive. As detailed in my appearance at the Wecht Conference, the tests identified the material on 567 as human skin. Forensic scientists agree that missing skin is indicative of a bullet's exit. The missing skin noted both in Parkland and during the autopsy was at the large defect on Kennedy's head. Forensic scientists agree that one of the least likely materials to be found on a bullet is skin, and that skin from a small entrance wound on the back of the head would not adhere to a bullet tumbling through the skull. This indicates--pretty much proves scientifically--that the fatal bullet impacted at the supposed exit. This means the entrance wound on the back of the head came from a second shot.

And this in turn suggests two shooters.

P.S. I'm virtually certain that I mailed something out to Orr, via the Atlanta FBI, 7-8 years ago. But I can't remember if I received a response.

Pat,

By "from a second shot" I suppose you mean "from a second head shot" which hit, from the rear, what was left of JFK's head.

Do you think this second head shot came from the TSBD, the roof of the County Records building, or where?

Do you think this second head shot hit JFK 3/4 of a second after the fatal frontal head shot?

Thanks,

--Tommy

I suspect there was more than one shot at Z-224 (a low-velocity shot from the roof of the Dal-Tex entering low on the back of Kennedy's head and exiting his throat while a near simultaneous shot hits Connally in the armpit). I suspect the rifle firing these bullets was a semi-automatic equipped with a silencer.

Thanks, Pat.

But that's not the question I asked.

Or is it?

The question I asked was about the shot you were referring to when you said "from a second shot" in an earlier post. I'm trying to figure out if by that phrase you meant "from the second head shot."

I'm trying to figure out if you think that JFK was hit in the head by two, and only two, bullets, the first one in the front of the head and the second one in the back of the head; the first one at Z-313 and the second one a few frames later.

What do your low-velocity, silenced, semi-automatic shots at Z-224 have to do with these two shots which must have happened around Z-313?

Thank you,

--Tommy

There was a sound after the head shot at 313, from the vicinity of the knoll, but I suspect it was a firecracker used as a diversionary device.