Five Presidents by Clint Hill with Lisa McCubbin: A Review

[Vince Palamara]

Five Presidents by Clint Hill with Lisa McCubbin: A Review

By Vince Palamara

http://www.ctka.net/2016/book-review-five-presidents/five-presidents-by-clint-hill-with-lisa-mccubbin-a-review.html

[Roy Wieselquist]

Vince Palamara,

Thank you so much for this review-summary of the latest Hill-McCubbin offering about the Secret Service. Now I don't have to look at it. I get a kick out of your videos critiquing the Blaine-Hill-McCubbin apologia. You really did cause them to come forth with their swill in the early 2000s. No brag, just fact. Also, thanks to you, they have backed off their blame-the-victim excuses.

I have a big general question. I would be so grateful for any consideration of it. QUESTION: during the Ike years, 1953 to 1961, do you see a marked "Southernization" of the federal government in general, and the SS in particular?

The FBI too, it seems to me, was largely Southern when JFK took the reins January '61. I don't mean only born in the South and with a Southern accent; I also mean a Southern sensibility -- paranoid racism, cartoonish fear-mongering about communism, hatred of labor. Bill Greer was a native of Ireland, though an Orangeman not a Catholic, and he was a driver for the Boston Lodges before the high-school dropout somehow kissed enough ass to pull the strings to get him a berth with SS. He had a "Southern sensibility": a p.o.ed bi-otch toward all but the high and mighty.

As you point out in pp.53-7 of the new Hill book, Harvey Henderson was a thousand-time documented racist who gave Abraham Bolden, for one, a hard time and nothing but a hard time. Yet it blithely blows by Hill and the rest of the SS, "Aw, 'at's just ol Harvey being a good ol baw." Translation: It ain't me so why should I care?

It's my contention that the Southern aspect just loathed that "funny-talkin' smart-aleck Yankee" JFK. And he had the nerve to have a full head of hair and not crew-cut it in obeisance to our military overlords!!! I believe even that cheesed them.

One more small, general QUESTION: Did DDE let the MIC run off with the candy store or what?! Sure, on his way out the door, Ike said "Beware the MIC," and with a quavery voice. The incomparable slacker woke up for a minute and saw what he had let happen. He had to say something. I think the May 1960 nuclear summit with Kruschev was pretty much sabotaged with the downing of Gary Power's U-2 flight JUST BECAUSE the old fool didn't want to get off his butt in his last year. "But I don't WANNA go," which was fine with our (largely) Southern military thieves.

P.S. At the end of your review, that was a great nugget of info about Clint actually being relegated to the Spiro Agnew detail, though as SAIC for the silver-haired crook. Funny story, SA came to Winston-Salem, NC when I was a freshman '72-73 at Wake Forest U., a fairly conservative school even in those days of the Civil War over Nam. About 20 or 30 of us went to Agnew's outdoor oration. We brought little balloons filled with red paint (just like as you noted when LBJ went to Australia -- Ah, the memories), hoping to chuck em at the suits, AND pieces of barb-wire with profound messages taped to them like "How would you like it if YOUR backyard was littered with this?" All of it was confiscated as soon as we arrived. The police kept us in the WAY back. We screamed ourselves hoarse. Agnew made unflattering remarks about us draft-dodging cowards, but it was strained. His days were numbered, and he knew it. And to think mighty Clint Hill, the only SSA who actually did any part of his job 11-22, was there keeping an eye on me and my droogies.

[Vince Palamara]

_{Thanks a lot, Roy!}

_{Yes, in fact, I do see that- Rufus Youngblood, Lem Johns, Woody Taylor, Jerry Kivett, Harvey Henderson, and a fair amount of other agents were from the deep south, whereas the old guard (Rowley/ Boring/Behn/ Greer/ Kellerman and that ilk) were more from the Northeast or Michigan.}

_{Very interesting about you and your droogies}

[Joe Bauer]

I have always wondered if Clint Hill had fallen in love with Jackie Kennedy while he was assigned to guard her.

After reading what I could about his life and feelings as related in his book and in his many interviews...I felt instinctively that there was something deeper going on in his heart about the most beautiful first lady that ever graced the White House...and that he will never ever reveal to anyone.

I have seen at least one home movie type video showing Hill with Jackie that gave me a feeling that their relationship was far from impersonal.

In this one scene, Jackie and her two your children are walking with Hill on a small two lane road or driveway in what looks like a Seaside rural area. Perhaps at the ocean in Mass?

They ( Jackie, the kids and even Hill ) are all dressed in very casual beach type clothing...and Hill is actually holding up and swinging John John in a playful way as they walk as Jackie is looking at them both with a relaxed, approving and trusting smile.

If you didn't know who these people were you would swear they were a family ( a happy and content one ) and Hill fit the loving playful father image to a tee.

John John looks young enough that this may have been before 11,22,1963. If so, JFK was obviously far away on business.

I wondered how much of Hill's job time was interacting so closely with Jackie like this.

Now, I am going to speculate a little here.

Clint Hill is in his younger middle age prime when he starts protecting Jackie Kennedy. He obviously is as attracted to beautiful women as any other healthy man his age.

He sees just over 30 years old world class attractive Jackie so much and is so physically close to her as well, he could literally smell her perfume.

I know that if it was me with that job, I couldn't help but be battling my attraction to this women. And when a man has a job of protecting such a person, often even a possessiveness can take hold.

That may not be a scientifically proven fact...but I believe it can be the case if the protected one is incredibly, even seductively beautiful as Jackie Kennedy obviously was.

You do remember the film "The Body Guard" with Kevin Costner and Whitney Houston?

I know...that's not a great comparative analogy, but the film's story line did follow the same emotional connection and bond I just described and which is somewhat commonly related to historically.

Didn't Patricia Hearst and her bodyguard fall in love as well? I can think of several other similar situations with famous people.

I also understand that Clint Hill's own marriage wasn't a healthy or happy one.

That would make him even more prone or even susceptible to falling for someone of Jackie Kennedy's beauty and classy but soft feminine ways and speaking.

When Hill supposedly and reportedly fell apart and began drinking heavy years after the JFK ass. I sense that this had more to do with him losing his connection to Jackie Kennedy than failing in keeping JFK from having his head blown apart right in front of him.

Now, without being the revered researchers like our main posters here, I must ask, didn't Hill and Jackie finally get intimate after JFK was taken out?

If they did, that would cement in my mind the belief that Hill was deeply in love with Jackie from the get go.

I bring up this possible emotional feeling scenario regards Hill toward Jackie to also propose that I don't think Hill cared that much about JFK's brutal death.

I also feel that contrary to Hill's often repeated statement that the Secret Service all liked JFK very much is a non-truth.

I believe that many hated JFK for his stand on race ( The Abraham Boldin affair highlighted this ) and many felt complete disgust for him regards his incredible sexcapades, sometimes with hookers and some felt extreme jealousy towards him as Jackie Kennedy's husband ...in particular Clint Hill.

I believe these negative feelings ( some deeply hateful ) towards JFK's by his own private guards in the least may have caused them to be more lax than they should have in his protection in Dallas. If I was assigned to guard JFK in a city known for it's extreme JFK hatred...I would have raided a fuss about going against driving protocol in so many ways it was outrageous...and I would have demanded that every open window above JFK be watched continuously while he was driving underneath.

I have not read Vince Palamara's books except excerpts but I have listened to his interviews on line. It seems to me that this is a take on Hill that he doesn't go into at all.

So without good research evidence I can only present my take as curious speculation, but I do feel this area of Hill's part in this historical period would take on a different meaning with this understanding of his true emotional connection towards Jackie Kennedy and JFK.

Your thoughts?

[Kathleen Collins]

I have not yet read the book, Joe Bauer, but I'm sure many of us are impressed about Clint taking care of

Jackie Kennedy. But when Hill was asked where the shots had come from, he said from high up and back.

That stops me cold. He was right there when Jackie's limo came to a halt by the grassy knoll and the shots

came from behind?

Kathy C

[Joe Bauer]

I have not yet read the book, Joe Bauer, but I'm sure many of us are impressed about Clint taking care of

Jackie Kennedy. But when Hill was asked where the shots had come from, he said from high up and back.

That stops me cold. He was right there when Jackie's limo came to a halt by the grassy knoll and the shots

came from behind?

Kathy

Kathy, my point was not whether Hill had or had not been very protective of Jackie Kennedy, but rather pondering whether he may have personally fallen in love with her.

Clint Hill was only 28 to 32 years old and Jackie Kennedy 32 to 36 years old during their 4 year long protection assignment relationship.

When a man of that young and vigorous age spends more time ( very close one-on-one and familial touching time such as major family holidays and outings and world class travel trips ) with another beautiful woman and her young family ( with the husband and children's real father absent ) than his own wife and family for years, then it is not illogical to assume this said person might develop stronger personal emotional bonds than normal with his security charge family because of this situation.

On another point, I have heard Hill say in televised interviews more than once that JFK was very well liked by all his SS detail.

I have also read statements reportedly made by other members of this protection group that many of them were disgusted by JFK's extra-marital sexual behavior while traveling or even in the White House.

And of course we have Abraham Boldin's statements regarding the actual hatred of JFK by members of this group because of his sympathetic personal views on race and in particular blacks.

So, who is telling the truth here?

Hill when he says that JFK was liked by the entire SS detail?

Boldin who relates that many in this group deeply hated JFK?

Those other SS personnel who reportedly expressed personal disgust towards JFK and his sexcapades?

In two televised interviews I also listened to Hill spend more time than asked in addressing the issue presented to him regarding no one checking open windows on JFK's motorcade route through Dallas on 11,22,1963.

Hill was obviously touchy about this security lapse charge and somewhat downplayed it by saying that they had had several similar motorcade assignments and they just didn't have the manpower to check all the windows on these motorcades so they just didn't...or that they didn't have any reports to do so ???

No mention whether any other security teams may have had a high rise open window checking assignment.

I am one who considers that security lapse more important and appalling than Hill does.

We had 5 or 6 Dealey Plaza bystanders on 11,22,1963 who came forward to report seeing a man ( or men ) with a rifle or rifles in the open windows of the Texas School Book Depository minutes before JFK's motorcade arrived there. There may have been more but who knows how many bystanders that day stayed quiet out of reluctance in dealing with the authorities or press.

Now, that's quite a few sidewalk bystanders to see something so threatening.

Especially so, considering the crowds had thinned by then and these 5 or 6 witnesses to this TSBD open window rifle display were were not trained or ordered or paid or even inclined to look for such things.

But just by casual looking around ( without binoculars ) and the closeness of the TSBD above them, it wasn't difficult for them to see this ???

It's always been disturbingly amazing to me that along the JFK motorcade route when it went underneath the downtown Dallas high rises, that there weren't any trained security personnel to do even a cursory scan of those open windows.

If 5 or 6 untrained,un-ordered and un-inclined regular bystanders with no binoculars can see all they reported in the 6th floor windows of the TSBD building from as early as 10 minutes before JFK's limo arrived there, think what one trained and observant security professional could have seen.

I just wished that Hill could for once be confronted with "real" questions about so many issues like this that we have all wondered about regarding JFK in Dallas and his SS protection there.

I wish that he could be asked how much he knew about presidential motorcade rules and regulations like those the late Fletcher Prouty informed us of ( and were violated ) such as no turns at high degree angles which could cause slow downs and the use of other ground security to check for things like open windows and suspicious characters in odd places.

Two men standing in the tree limb obstructed and shaded area ( and standing in mud ) behind the picket fence on the grassy knoll would be such an obvious odd place like this to observe such a motorcade.

I would ask Mr. Hill if he knew what drastic measures the Miami police and his own group took regards JFK's motorcade trip there just weeks earlier?

They cancelled that motorcade and instead flew JFK by helicopter to the stadium where he spoke there.

Or if he was aware of why the JFK Miami motorcade was cancelled with one reason being that the Miami PD had secretly taped a seriously connected JFK threat ( Joseph Milteer ) predicting that JFK would be shot from a high rise and a patsy arrested soon after, ( "It's in the workings" ) and that this covert meeting and taping took place in Miami just a relatively short time before JFK's arrival there?

Or how about the Chicago incident? JFK's trip there was changed also!

If both of those JFK threat events that really happened and caused major JFK protection plans just weeks before Dallas wouldn't make you super conscious of high rise open windows in another major city clearly known as one of the most JFK hating ones in the country, and at least while JFK was moving directly underneath these...what would?

I know that many are so taken by the Clint Hill story that they would consider my doubts and less than hero worship feelings about him as repulsively offensive.

Sorry, but I just see too many questionable things in Hill's statements. And he has never allowed himself to be engaged with serious questions about 11,22,1963 in person.

His appearances have all been tightly controlled and managed. Those are truth hiding red flags to me.

[Vince Palamara]

Hello, Joe! First of all, you need to get my first book SURVIVOR'S GUILT asap

Second- my third book THE NOT SO SECRET SERVICE is coming out later this year and contains several explosive chapters on the JFK assassination (information that further corroborates my prior research and debunks the Blaine and Hill propaganda). I am really excited about my third book because I feel it is my very best. I am proud of my first book and even my second book, although it is a reference book on the medical evidence that may go over the heads of the average reader. This one coming out is the most readable of the three, the most diverse (covering FDR thru Reagan) and it further corroborates my first book.

I feel it is a game changer.

Joe, all your questions--and more---are answered in my first and (perhaps especially) in my third book. I can't go into too much detail pre-publication (my publisher wasn't thrilled I was so "talkative" before my first book came out LOL)...just a few short months for the new one.

Vince

Edited August 3, 2016 by Vince Palamara

[Joe Bauer]

Vince, in your years of SS and specifically Clint Hill research efforts, did you ever consider the question as to whether Clint Hill and Jackie Kennedy became intimate?

At any time?

Have you ever even heard of this possible relationship between Hill And Jackie K.?

Do you have knowledge that this closeness between these two did or did not take place?

If they did, would this simply be a personal issue you would consider unimportant?

Do you know anything about Clint Hill's marriage situation while he was protecting Jackie Kennedy?

Also, was Clint Hill part of the group of SS agents who were out late drinking in Dallas the night before 11.22,1963.

Did Clint Hill have a drinking problem as far back as 11,22,1963?

I've always had a feeling inside that Clint Hill has always held back his true deeper feelings about JFK and Jackie Kennedy.

Yours, JB

[David Von Pein]