Allen Dulles visits LBJ ranch shortly before the assassination

[Roger DeLaria]

I find this very interesting, especially with Dulles not being DCI at the time. LBJ had deep ties into the intelligence, military, and defense communities from his senate days, and would have been close to Dulles. I wonder what they discussed? Hmmmm.

http://vincepalamara.com/2014/04/17/former-cia-director-allen-dulles-visits-vice-president-lbj-at-the-lbj-ranch-shortly-before-the-assassination/

“Dulles joked in private that the JFK conspiracy buffs would have had a field day if they had known….he had actually been in Dallas three weeks before the murder….”

A Certain Arrogance, p. 230

[Larry Hancock]

This is another perfect example of how the internet allows no false information to ever be left behind . Its been researched and posted on many, many times and was even the subject of a presentation at a Lancer

conference. The reality is that there was a Fort Worth newspaper article about visitors to the Johnson ranch, based on JFK's upcoming visit. To illustrate it they pulled a file photo of Dulles at the ranch - taken when he did a general

briefing for the candidates before the Presidential election. A casual glance makes it appear that it was a contemporary photo but it wasn't. People ranging from Jack White do David Lifton and myself have

researched this....and we had a fellow who owned the photo series from which that image was taken at a Lancer conference. He had numerous other copies including a not very flattering image of Lady Bird

and a horse, apparently that one got the photographer kicked off the ranch.

So....don't know how this got into A Certain Arrogance but Dulles did not visit the range shortly before the assassination.

[Roger DeLaria]

When i came across this, I found it very plausible and didn't have any reason to doubt it. Thanks for the info, Larry.

[Brian Schmidt]

Larry is right. This keeps popping up every so often but has been debunked. Dulles was in Dallas in the last few days of October 1963, though, to promote his book. He only had a handful of cities on his list that fall (only 3 I think), although I disagree with the whole notion that a main conspirator would have to visit Dallas at all let alone right before the assassination. He was in London, if I remember correctly, the night before and during the assassination.

One day I read Dulles' schedule/appointment book from the day he left CIA til he died; it's an interesting read and highly recommended for anyone who considers him to be a senior level conspirator and is trying to 'connect the dots.' He kept in contact with CIA members or ex members at least weekly, usually every day. He talked to Tracy Barnes (and Cord Meyer) way more than he talked to Helms. He even spoke with Bill Harvey as late as 1968.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Brian Schmidt

[Roger DeLaria]

Thanks for letting me know that Brian, its much appreciated. I certainly learned something today.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Roger DeLaria

[Larry Hancock]

Brian raises a good point, its often said that no CIA officer really ever leaves the Agency. I think it might be more accurate to say that no officer ever leaves his Agency social network, partly because of curiosity but also because it represents an opportunity to remain influential and/or to use those connections for personal agendas...whether political or financial. Having been CIA gives you a certain amount of clout, name dropping about who was at the house last weekend or who you had dinner with last week gives you a lot more...

[Roger DeLaria]

Much like David Atlee Phillips founding the Association of Former Intelligence Officers (AFIO).

[Larry Hancock]

I'd say Ed Wilson and Ted Shackley would be even better examples of actually making money off their social networks...

[David Lifton]

This is another perfect example of how the internet allows no false information to ever be left behind . Its been researched and posted on many, many times and was even the subject of a presentation at a Lancer

conference. The reality is that there was a Fort Worth newspaper article about visitors to the Johnson ranch, based on JFK's upcoming visit. To illustrate it they pulled a file photo of Dulles at the ranch - taken when he did a general

briefing for the candidates before the Presidential election. A casual glance makes it appear that it was a contemporary photo but it wasn't. People ranging from Jack White do David Lifton and myself have

researched this....and we had a fellow who owned the photo series from which that image was taken at a Lancer conference. He had numerous other copies including a not very flattering image of Lady Bird

and a horse, apparently that one got the photographer kicked off the ranch.

So....don't know how this got into A Certain Arrogance but Dulles did not visit the range shortly before the assassination.

Agreed: Dulles did not visit the ranch the weekend before the assassination; more precisely, the picture showing Dulles and LBJ and Ladybird at the ranch that was published in the Fort Worth Press about 5 days before Kennedy's November 22 visit to Dallas was taken in July 1960 after Kennedy's nomination, and after LBJ was announced as his running mate. Shortly thereafter, Dulles went to the ranch in connection with the (relatively) new law that the candidates would be briefed by the CIA.'

I remember how excited I was--some forty years ago--when I first saw the photograph in question, published in the Fort Worth Press about five days before JFK's visit; but then it turned out the picture was from July 1960 (I don't recall now how that was determined) and there was quite a let down.

DSL

5/22/15 - 3:50 a.m. PDT

Los Angeles, California

P.S. One other thing: Dulles' first name --contrary to the title of this thread--is spelled "Allen," not "Alan." FWIW.

Edited May 25, 2015 by David Lifton

[David Andrews]

Much like David Atlee Phillips founding the Association of Former Intelligence Officers (AFIO).

I'm going to start a thread on the AFIO tonight.. My revelation is small, and second-hand, but I've been looking for an excuse to get it on the Forum.

[Larry Hancock]

David, that should be interesting. I've always been curious if Phillips was encouraged to do that or did it on his own. He did write a couple of other books after Nightwatch and they give some insight into his thoughts of the period, suggesting he actually may have felt that intelligence professionals were being unfairly prosecuted and slandered (yeah, I know nobody wants to hear that). I've become convinced that when Hunt "left" the Agency he was still operational and was actually just assuming a "commercial/professional" cover, planted in a place where he could be useful. There is actually some documentation showing that he was given a level of security clearance which allowed him to fill in for his boss in processing information sought by the Agency through the companie's contacts. As to Phillips, I just don't know....looking forward to your post.

[Roger DeLaria]

As Brian mentioned, when Dulles visited Dallas to promote his book the last days of Oct. 63, could he have made a side visit with LBJ and not documented it? If so, a few weeks before could qualify as shortly before the assassination rather than the weekend before. ?

[Larry Hancock]

Roger, as VP Johnson's travel was pretty tightly logged and monitored, we do know where he was each day and each hour and he did spend time in Texas getting the Ranch ready for Jack and Jackie and trying fruitlessly to try and mend some of the political hostility the trip had elicited (although he pretty much gave up on that)...he even went over a couple of days in advance to address the Pepsi convention as I recall. If you have my book SWHT I go into his activities and even phone calls the weeks before the assassination and you might check that out. Honestly though I view a Dulles/Johnson visit as being as unlikely and unreasonable as Nixon at the Murchison party, it there was a real conspiracy in progress the last thing in the world that would happen would be any last minute personal contacts between plotters. That just makes no sense and would be unnecessary in that there would be a host of covert ways to make contacts, pass messages etc. For that matter, both men would keep as much distance from the trip as possible, if Dulles left the country to avoid the Bay of Pigs I'm pretty sure he would not go to Dallas right before the assassination if he were involved. Obviously that's just my view...

[Roger DeLaria]

Johnson was big on being secretive, and Dulles was no stranger to that kind of behavior as well. That would be too much exposure. I agree a last minute meeting between the two would be unlikely.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Roger DeLaria

[Brian Schmidt]

Bump