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The Koch clan and the John Birch Society


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mr. phelps

your references to trotsky need some background, i am not sure what you are saying, but it seems to contradict what is common information. mexico was about the last place on earth that would accept trotsky. he was allowed in on condition that he have no involvement in local politics. i have never read that he violated that. the first year or two he was consumed by his self-staged trial with dewey, where dewey said stalin's fantastic charges all false. later, he was only there 3 years, his american membership began to question his leadership as stalin and hitler signed their pact. i cannot believe he had any role in mexican catholicism. this is a 400 year institution. trotsky is an alien practically a prisoner in his house. his writing in this period is all about trying to resurrect his organization. he made very little ripples in mexico really, other than being a target. the link you provided does not have any special information. there are several biographies, Deutscher, Volkogonov, Patenaude writes specifically about the mexican exile. i feel he was pretty isolated while there and had his hands full with his declining health, declining influence, the death of nearly all his relations, including his son.

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I think I was speaking of the ACCC (American Council of Christian Chruches) operated in Mexico:

http://scribblguy.50megs.com/torbitt7.htm

And they have anti-communist slant and some pro-NAZI. The ACCC was connected to the various ways to insure Communism didn't get a good hold on Mexico. And the model of Mexico appeared to be moved into Vietnam.

And the idea of Missionaries in Communist Countries didn't do well either, as we see from the story of "John Birch," of Rome, Ga., and the Communist Chinese, or that of "Bill Wallace," of Knoxville Tennessee, in China. The idea was to put the best relgion foot forward and gain acceptance with the people, and the Communists don't like the plan.

Religions and Communism don't always mix well, as religion is tuned to support Kings, Church Pontifs, Royalists methods, and not socialistic thinking. Yet, the real story of Jesus and the Essene is more that of a Socialistic Society with all held in common. So, the story of Jesus is massaged to fit Capitalism.

Trotsky living next door to the US set off ripples on Communism in the US. There were a number of Communists in Mexico and Trotsky's artist friend had lots of Communist visitors. Trotsky was tapped into this arena and lived in the artist's home for a time. Mexico never took to Socialism or Communism became of the strong Cathlic system in place.

Trotsky in Mexico was about like the Highlander Folk School in Monteagle Tennessee, it caused concerns. Trotsky was killed by a Mexican Communist loyal to Stalin because of Trotsky making waves clear over to Russia. He wasn't every quiet and more on the warpath Internationally.

Catholics are the most anti-Communist of all the relgions, and thus, made a good move against Communists in Vietnam with the conversion of President Diem. Likewise, in Mexico the resistance of Catholics to Communism was strong, though they had a small Communist Party that came in and out of existance.

This ACCC thing in Mexico looked more like a pre-CIA / OSS version of the CIA kill game against Communists. ACCC appears to have set up their very own version of the LDS Avenging Angels / Danite Concepts to kill those that don't fit their system. And this ACCC concept became the games for the CIA political assassination and control.

Trotsky and Stalin appeared to do much the same in the Russian Socialist movements of killing those that opposed them.

=======

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Trotsky

He remained a prolific writer in exile, penning several key works, including his History of the Russian Revolution (1930) and The Revolution Betrayed (1936), a critique of the Soviet Union under Stalinism. Trotsky argued that the Soviet state had become a “degenerated workers' state” controlled by an undemocratic bureaucracy, which would eventually either be overthrown via a political revolution establishing workers' democracy, or degenerate into a capitalist class.

While in Mexico, Trotsky also worked closely with James P. Cannon, Joseph Hansen, and Farrell Dobbs of the Socialist Workers Party of the United States, and other supporters.

Cannon, a long-time leading member of the American communist movement, had supported Trotsky in the struggle against Stalinism since he first read Trotsky's criticisms of the Soviet Union in 1928. Trotsky's critique of the Stalinist regime, though banned, was distributed to leaders of the Comintern. Among his other supporters was Chen Duxiu, founder of the Chinese Communist Party.[citation needed]

---

In April 1937, an independent "Commission of Inquiry" into the charges made against Trotsky and others at the "Moscow Trials" was held in Coyoacán, with John Dewey as chairman.[58] The findings were published in the book Not Guilty.[59]

---

Dies CommitteeTowards the end of 1939 Trotsky agreed to go to the United States to appear as a witness before the Dies Committee of the House of Representatives, a forerunner of the House Un-American Activities Committee. Representative Martin Dies, chairman of the committee, demanded the suppression of the American Communist Party. Trotsky intended to use the forum to expose the NKVD's activities against him and his followers.

He made it clear that he also intended to argue against the suppression of the American Communist Party, and to use the committee as a platform for a call to transform World War II into a world revolution. Many of his supporters argued against his appearance. When the committee learned the nature of the testimony Trotsky intended to present, it refused to hear him, and he was denied a visa to enter the United States. On hearing about it, the Stalinists immediately accused Trotsky of being in the pay of the oil magnates and the Federal Bureau of Investigation.[62]

==================

Trotsky even had a big show trial in his home city.

============

http://www.brain-juice.com/cgi-bin/show_bio.cgi?p_id=131

During 1937 and 1938, Mexican artist Diego Riviera petitioned the Mexican President to offer Trotsky exile, and Trotsky and Natalie took up residence with Riviera and artist Frida Kahlo outside Mexico City. While in Mexico City, Trotsky arranged the Fourth International to help wrest Marxism away from Stalinist control. On February 16, 1938, Stalinist agents murdered Trotsky's son Lyova, who worked tirelessly for his father in Paris to publish the Bulletin of the Opposition. Demoralized, Trotsky arranged meetings of Mexican revolutionaries and communists to clear his name against Stalinist allegations, which continued, with every show trial, to threaten his life. After Trotsky and Natalie moved out of Riviera and Kahlo's house in 1939, mysterious incidents and assassination attempts continued to plague them. Completing a biography of Stalin, Trotsky was also being hunted by the man. In August 1940, an unlikely assassin, Ramon Mercader, alias Jacson-Mornard, posed as a servant's boyfriend, entered the compound, and stabbed Trotsky in the head with an ice pick. He survived the night in a coma and died early the following morning.

=======

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Communist_Party

=====

Edited by Jim Phelps
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Jim, thank you for that. I wonder if you are in any of that referring to:

the relevance of Christ as a Jew

is any of it referring to some occult school?

_

Terry, I think you raise some relevant points that the wiki article kind of glosses over, ignores, distorts and essentially doesn't answer. Trotsky : , of course as longer term members who have paid attention over time will know, I see him(and his followers) as historical figures of significance and to understand events of the last century an understanding of him, his history and evolution (and nature) of thinking is important. I do think particularly his meetings with Cannon are important as there is a direct tie there to the US Fourth International, the SDS, the Militant, Malcolm X (kinda), and of course US intelligence. Trotsky really was a thorn in every-ones side (except working men and women of the world (imo)) but I think he went on through his writings to continue to influence the world to today and that is always something that neither the Stalinists nor the Capitalists/Fascists can ever destroy. I've read that Che' was reading him towards the end. I don't know if that's true, but Che' certainly became more and more an internationalist.

I think all historians should read ''The History of the Russian Revolution'' by Trotsky. Trotskys' correspondence during exile with groupings and persons throughout the world shows a deep involvement on a fundamental basis and the need to assassinate him is clear when seeing him as the alternative to the dogma of Stalin and Capital.

edit typos

Edited by John Dolva
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Per:

"Jim, thank you for that. I wonder if you are in any of that referring to:

the relevance of Christ as a Jew

is any of it referring to some occult school?"

====

That is an interesting question and perhaps gets right to the heart of the problematic issues of religion. The answer is somewhat akin to why some Jewish support the Royalist's Banking games and others support the ideals for Socialism and Communism. Certainly Marx and Trotsky were Jewish and shapped Socialism or Communism. This Dicotomy is a long existing one, rooted in the answer to that very question.

Some historians suggest there were three Hewbrew (aka Jewish in modern vogue) factions in Jerusalem: Pharisee, Saducee, and Essene. The Essene being the lesser known, because they were so separate from the 2nd temple that tended to follow the Roman rule.

The Essene followed what some tell was the more Pious story for religion and held to monotheism derived from Moses. They held David in high respect. The Pharisee and Saducee appeared to be Babylon Talmud associated. The Essene didn't like the sacrifice things of the temple and had their own Temple at Mt. Carmel.

It gets down perhaps to the Essene were decendants of King David and especially the family of Joseph, Mary, Jesus, James. And the split in theology occurs at the point the Babylon Talmud begins and the Babylon Captivity. Here they copycated Nimrod's views of what god was about. It went toward making the Jewish People as god, the face of god, as Nimrod tried to become god.

The Essene were more like a Communal group in the Mt. Carmel area and not after vast wealth control, and seemingly interested in everyone's well being, pious truths of religion, and good human stewardship. The Essene followed the Mysticisms of the Mystery Schools and their design for a Messiah followed some age old formula. There is a religion researcher named "Achara" that speaks to some of these themes, recurrent themes for leaders and messiahs going back to old Egypt and earlier. The Essene were students of this old history and method.

The two Talmud based Jerusalem factions were into more Capitalism and Empire, and followed the designs of Nimrod, who was considered more a tyrant ruler of Babylon. This faction attached itself to empire builders like the Romans. In latter periods, the like methods supported Dark Ages land barons leading up to the point the German Bauers or Rothschilds attached themselves to the UK Monarchy, the German Windsors. The Pharisee were more the capitalists of those times and the Essene more the Socialists of those times, and the Sadducee played along with the Pharisee and the Romans.

With the split that came along due to the Babylon Talmud, perhaps that needs to be assigned to the Occult beliefs of Nimrod that corrupted the more pious beliefs that existed pre-Babylon.

Yet, in terms of seeking what was God, what is man's purpose on Earth, what is stewardship for mankind, perhaps the Essene get the more Pious award in religion.

In the times of Moses and the story for the "Children of the Light", there are some interesting factors that one can find these days using science and geology. Lots of what Moses assigned to God was perhaps better assigned to Natural effects and knowing Mother Nature. If one looks, the real Moses Mountain is in Saudi Arabia near the area of Midian. A person from Tennessee named Ron Wyatt started making these areas public in the 1980s. Here lies the "East African Rift Zone", and highly volcanic rift area that intersects the edges of the Saudi oil fields. One can imagine what happens when the heat of a rift zone volcanic like effects encounter an oil field and this cooks off flammable vapors. This same rift effect made the Dead Sea and produces huge tar blobs from the sea floor from similar effects with oil deposits.

Add to this regional effects that this Rift Zone also extended across the upper east fork of the Red Sea and created what could be seen today as a rift created land bridge that perhaps could rise and fall like a periodic "Old Faithful" geiser to push the sandy sea floor up for escape from the Egyptians. This same crossing area had inscribed stone pillars placed on each side of this undersea land bridge erected by Soloman, so they had to know this area. This effect seems to have shapped Moses view of God as being only one and one that looks to be highly akin to Mother Nature's effects around the Midian area in that period.

I suspect in the earlier times of religion in this region these effects were better understood, but they were embellished a little too much in the Moses recounts. Except for the embellishments and if one replaces the reason for these effects as Mother Nature, then it all becomes very true.

The Essene were into Mysticism as much as Moses, so what does one ascribe as occult?

What one can dissect from Hewbrew Religion is Monotheism, and departure from the concepts of multiple gods that were generally about natural order effects. One can see a split in the Hewbrew beliefs that occured by the Captivity and the Talmud being written. And this split exists today as the battle between Capitalism and Socialism. Which takes the form of the Royalist's based Capitalism of this day and the Socialist concepts of Communism.

And the roots of this days problems are this same old differences in religion concepts.

Thus, arises the need for the Capitalism ilk to control the concepts of Jesus message and white wash the issues of the Mt. Carmel thinking for society. Though the Essene and the Pharisee were quite different, the modern church seeks to make "Judeo-Christian" as joined to suppress this difference.

There was a difference and that difference continues to this very day. The Essene made the Concepts for what would become Christianty. Jesus became the Essene's greatest spokesman. With is death, Christianty was born, and the concept of Christianty freed people from the Talmud's overbearing control.

The Mormon's, who like to draw from the concepts of the Masons, suggest that Adam was God and thus the existance of the concepts for God came into existance in the first origins of man. Which is likely the bottom line concept.

Mason's like the Painting called "The Creation", which speaks to this Concept, and it is on the ceiling of a Vatican Church.

The concept of occult exists when one goes beyond the concepts of science perhaps, and religions dip in and out of science realities with embellishments for natural effects.

JFK found himself in the times of trying to mediate the extremes between this same ole Royalist's Capitalism and Socialism. JFK was steering for the middle of the road and keeping out of the ditches on each side of the road. The JBS, funded by the Capitalists like Rockefeller, were pushing to cause a war with the Socialists in Cuba and Russia using nuclear weapons. At the heart of these efforts was Dallas and JBS funder Hunt, with the ACCC. The JBS pinned the target in JFK's back and were the ring leaders for killing JFK. Before the JBS and JFK it was Huey Long, before them lots of others like Lincoln, with the same underlying cause.

Edited by Jim Phelps
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john

a friend of mine, now deceased, was a guard for trotsky and was there the day he died. thats how i became interested in trotsky. honestly, i am not sure what trotskyism is, or what trotskyists stand for, i think they all stand for something different. i think it was the force of his personality, his work ethic, and the force of his intellect that created the movement, more than any big idea, other than the basic idea of socialism, people should benefit from their labor. he was without question a genius, but geniuses can be wrong. the modern biographies seem to be pretty hard on him, that later in his life, he made some bad decisions, alienated friends and befriended enemies. he was autocratic and impractical at times, but the pressure he was under from stalin, systematically killing not only everyone in his family but everyone he ever knew.there was a firestorm in his own organization the last two years of his life over the hitler-stalin pact.

i guess this is off topic since the thread is jbs and koch, but if you take the swp as being the antithesis to the jbs, it kinda fits. i jumped in because it seemed like there was too much of an attempt to connect too many dots.

the connection between trotsky and oswald is the swp, trotskys organization founded by cannon. he and joseph hansen were both still in charge of the swp in the early 60s. hansen was trotskys secretary in mexico, was there the day he died, and had some connection, i am not sure what, with the fair play for cuba. hansen is a pretty weird guy, imo. he generated a lot of controversy in the 70s when the english group accused him of being either an fbi agent, a gpu agent, or both, while trotsky was still alive. he seemed to run the organization totally into the ground. i think there is some possibility he was an fbi informant. less likely that he was ever associated with the gpu.

my opinion is that the swp was never very significant or had much real influence. even in their heyday, 37-39. stalins pact with hitler, and trotskys insistence that it didnt really change anything, was impossible for many of his american followers to swallow, and they split with him. its the main mistake trotsky made at the end, asking his american followers in a theoretical way to defend russia in a war with america. i cant see any reason he could hold that line, except he could not bear to see his socialist experiment extinguished and perhaps he still hoped for a miracle where he could go back to russia as vindicated.

in the 50s after the mccarthy pressure, the swp was, i believe, extremely small.

lyman paine was not a founder of the swp. that is repeated occasionally, but i had never heard the name before. there is a couple of web sites that are by followers of trotsky, that catalog all the writings done by him and in trotskys name, and the name lyman paine does not come up in any search. he was there, though references to him are pretty obscure. i will eat my words if somebody shows me a real reference. on the fbi site, they have declassified their trotsky assassination investigation, there are several large pdfs. lyman paine is mentioned in one memo as "the money guy" if i remember right, behind clr james, who was a fairly independent voice, not a masthead character in the swp. so he had some involvement, but not with the cannon, hansen, dobbs, schachtman, burnham, the real leaders in the 30s and beyond. its possible the words "charter member" and "founder" were substituted at one point, but they mean very different things.

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wow. I won't presume anything.

I think there were particular events in Trotsys life that defines him. I think he must be viewed in conjunction with Lenins own words on him (and Stalin) to eplain his personal trits. Also his role in the struggle between the menchevics and the bolchevics, and then on to his role as head of the red army defeating the white which I think was the time during which Stalin built up his power base.

You don't Exile and Hound someone remorselessly for decades to death unless there is a reason.

Personally I think that is Trotskys contribution to Marxism, being the theory of permanent revolution, which if implemented would keep control over social morality in the hands of the worker councils (soviets as proposed by marx from a study of the paris commune. AND this must necessarily be international

Would ''the english group'' be the ''Healyites''? If so, the negatiity imo is correctly placed at a cultish fundamentalist personality sect that split from the Fourth International.

Further splits have occurred and it can be hard to find the real Trotsky.

re significance :

COINTELPRO.jpg

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Per:

"Jim, thank you for that. I wonder if you are in any of that referring to:

the relevance of Christ as a Jew

is any of it referring to some occult school?"

====

That is an interesting question and perhaps gets right to the heart of the problematic issues of religion. The answer is somewhat akin to why some Jewish support the Royalist's Banking games and others support the ideals for Socialism and Communism. Certainly Marx and Trotsky were Jewish and shapped Socialism or Communism. This Dicotomy is a long existing one, rooted in the answer to that very question.

Some historians suggest there were three Hewbrew (aka Jewish in modern vogue) factions in Jerusalem: Pharisee, Saducee, and Essene. The Essene being the lesser known, because they were so separate from the 2nd temple that tended to follow the Roman rule.

The Essene followed what some tell was the more Pious story for religion and held to monotheism derived from Moses. They held David in high respect. The Pharisee and Saducee appeared to be Babylon Talmud associated. The Essene didn't like the sacrifice things of the temple and had their own Temple at Mt. Carmel.

It gets down perhaps to the Essene were decendants of King David and especially the family of Joseph, Mary, Jesus, James. And the split in theology occurs at the point the Babylon Talmud begins and the Babylon Captivity. Here they copycated Nimrod's views of what god was about. It went toward making the Jewish People as god, the face of god, as Nimrod tried to become god.

The Essene were more like a Communal group in the Mt. Carmel area and not after vast wealth control, and seemingly interested in everyone's well being, pious truths of religion, and good human stewardship. The Essene followed the Mysticisms of the Mystery Schools and their design for a Messiah followed some age old formula. There is a religion researcher named "Achara" that speaks to some of these themes, recurrent themes for leaders and messiahs going back to old Egypt and earlier. The Essene were students of this old history and method.

The two Talmud based Jerusalem factions were into more Capitalism and Empire, and followed the designs of Nimrod, who was considered more a tyrant ruler of Babylon. This faction attached itself to empire builders like the Romans. In latter periods, the like methods supported Dark Ages land barons leading up to the point the German Bauers or Rothschilds attached themselves to the UK Monarchy, the German Windsors. The Pharisee were more the capitalists of those times and the Essene more the Socialists of those times, and the Sadducee played along with the Pharisee and the Romans.

With the split that came along due to the Babylon Talmud, perhaps that needs to be assigned to the Occult beliefs of Nimrod that corrupted the more pious beliefs that existed pre-Babylon.

Yet, in terms of seeking what was God, what is man's purpose on Earth, what is stewardship for mankind, perhaps the Essene get the more Pious award in religion.

In the times of Moses and the story for the "Children of the Light", there are some interesting factors that one can find these days using science and geology. Lots of what Moses assigned to God was perhaps better assigned to Natural effects and knowing Mother Nature. If one looks, the real Moses Mountain is in Saudi Arabia near the area of Midian. A person from Tennessee named Ron Wyatt started making these areas public in the 1980s. Here lies the "East African Rift Zone", and highly volcanic rift area that intersects the edges of the Saudi oil fields. One can imagine what happens when the heat of a rift zone volcanic like effects encounter an oil field and this cooks off flammable vapors. This same rift effect made the Dead Sea and produces huge tar blobs from the sea floor from similar effects with oil deposits.

Add to this regional effects that this Rift Zone also extended across the upper east fork of the Red Sea and created what could be seen today as a rift created land bridge that perhaps could rise and fall like a periodic "Old Faithful" geiser to push the sandy sea floor up for escape from the Egyptians. This same crossing area had inscribed stone pillars placed on each side of this undersea land bridge erected by Soloman, so they had to know this area. This effect seems to have shapped Moses view of God as being only one and one that looks to be highly akin to Mother Nature's effects around the Midian area in that period.

I suspect in the earlier times of religion in this region these effects were better understood, but they were embellished a little too much in the Moses recounts. Except for the embellishments and if one replaces the reason for these effects as Mother Nature, then it all becomes very true.

The Essene were into Mysticism as much as Moses, so what does one ascribe as occult?

What one can dissect from Hewbrew Religion is Monotheism, and departure from the concepts of multiple gods that were generally about natural order effects. One can see a split in the Hewbrew beliefs that occured by the Captivity and the Talmud being written. And this split exists today as the battle between Capitalism and Socialism. Which takes the form of the Royalist's based Capitalism of this day and the Socialist concepts of Communism.

And the roots of this days problems are this same old differences in religion concepts.

Thus, arises the need for the Capitalism ilk to control the concepts of Jesus message and white wash the issues of the Mt. Carmel thinking for society. Though the Essene and the Pharisee were quite different, the modern church seeks to make "Judeo-Christian" as joined to suppress this difference.

There was a difference and that difference continues to this very day. The Essene made the Concepts for what would become Christianty. Jesus became the Essene's greatest spokesman. With is death, Christianty was born, and the concept of Christianty freed people from the Talmud's overbearing control.

The Mormon's, who like to draw from the concepts of the Masons, suggest that Adam was God and thus the existance of the concepts for God came into existance in the first origins of man. Which is likely the bottom line concept.

Mason's like the Painting called "The Creation", which speaks to this Concept, and it is on the ceiling of a Vatican Church.

The concept of occult exists when one goes beyond the concepts of science perhaps, and religions dip in and out of science realities with embellishments for natural effects.

JFK found himself in the times of trying to mediate the extremes between this same ole Royalist's Capitalism and Socialism. JFK was steering for the middle of the road and keeping out of the ditches on each side of the road. The JBS, funded by the Capitalists like Rockefeller, were pushing to cause a war with the Socialists in Cuba and Russia using nuclear weapons. At the heart of these efforts was Dallas and JBS funder Hunt, with the ACCC. The JBS pinned the target in JFK's back and were the ring leaders for killing JFK. Before the JBS and JFK it was Huey Long, before them lots of others like Lincoln, with the same underlying cause.

Jim, I find it a bit hard to place the Jewish strand that led to Marx and Trotsky, or communism if you will?

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Per:

Jim, I find it a bit hard to place the Jewish strand that led to Marx and Trotsky, or communism if you will?

============

Many people only see part of what is Judaism, and that likely to keep the public under informed by those in charge of relgion's history. To overcome these under informed issues, I'd recommend the inclusion of material and history similar to the following.

One of the issues of Judaism is that it is widely interpreted. The range extents from Messianic Judaism (Jesus supporters) to that of the Talmud assertions that the Jewish People are god (The Essene really didn't like that idea). Due to this, There is an old saying for Rabbis, that for every Rabbi in a room there will be three opinions from each of them. Judaism is often an exercise in contradictions, as there are so many opinions. Obviously, in terms of what is Royal, lots of those valuations trace back to linage from King David. And there are games of Royals changing names (Winsors) and becoming allied with big Banking games using Jewish Usury methods (Rothschilds-Bauers, and their allied big banks).

Certainly, I place interest on the Essene Value system being not respectful of Kings or Empires, and that it operated more socialistically than the other two sects concerned with power and money concentrated in the 2nd temple's religion authority. Two sects seemed to be absorbed by money and power over the peoples, and the other less concerned of money and most concerned for good stewardship toward others. Certainly, if there were a real Judeo-Christian religion, this Essene teaching would be highly evident and not the most suppressed.

I also associate that Essene system of values of not only disapproving of the 2nd temple's Talmudic Values, but the current like system for disapproval of oligarchic power and the extremes of Capitalism and Empire building that perhaps led to the Socialism concepts of Marx and Trotsky. It is obvious that the concepts of Socialism came from concern for the little people and worker issues. And the Trotsky issue of permanent revolution being needed to keep the greed for power and money in check. Was it not Thomas Jefferson that suggested much the same with the need to a Revolution every twenty years? Money tends to corrupt, unless kept in check with good stewardship issues for all.

Certainly, this effect rebelled against the Czar of Russia, as those that killed the Czar and his family appeared to be this Jewish associated Socialist polital interest group. This kicked off the Socialists and Communist political swing in Russia. The first Russian leaders after the Czar were just about all Jewish.

Today, this same fear exists in the small number of Oligarchs that control 90 percent of the world's wealth. The current form of oligarchic capitalism and socialism are deadly enemies. Rockefeller saw an opportunity with Robert Welch and the JBS to escallate the attacks on Communists that are inspired to shut down Royalist's thinking on Fascism and Oligarchic power concentrated in the economic power of the Rich via corporations, tax shelters, and foundations.

Communism being an extreme of Socialism that seeks control via suppression of these religions that tend to assume power over the state. So, pure Communism becames the enemy of Catholicism and many religions. The current form of Religion, sanitized of the Essene values, is a lever against Communism. Control of the Churches dogma is key to the balance between capitalistic oligarchic control of the world and that of the Essene more Socialistic approach.

Capitalism follows relgious footprints still. Buddhists areas tend to tolerate Socialism. Catholic areas tend to be Capitalistic, and double talk on the issues of the Essene Jesus.

Essene Jesus of the Mt. Carmel area also valued Bhudhist values, and this same tendency exists today with Socialist Vs. Capitalist trends.

In wars against Communism, the sneaking in the concept of conversions to Christianity has been used to control the footprint of Communism. Certainly that was the game in the French Colony of Vietnam. It also stamped out Communism attempts in Mexico. But failed badly in Cuba, mostly due to the corruption and violence extremes of Batista. I'd suspect with all these violence and drug wars in Mexico and that region that these may slip into Communist domains because of the same corruption effects of Batista. Communism is a forced order not unlike Marshal Law, but when chaos and violence becomes the norm, people will vote for extreme control. Beware that this same method does not bite the US.

Certainly, the issues of Jewish and Communism entered the South's quest for Civil Rights as a number of Northern Jewish people came down for the Freedom Bus rides and other events. The KKK hate for Jewish instigators of the Civil Rights era was strong. So strong that a few "Jewish instigators" (from the venacular of the times) in the South were murdered and burried in a dam. One sect of the Judaic religion seems to be about Equality / Socialism and the other about inequality of economic power.

Personally, I thought the middle of the road stance that JFK was piloting was the right direction, as there are systems that work better with a socilist approach and others with capitalist approach. And many times good stewardship would require any part of the system that was not acting well to switch modes when required to make it perform. Certainly, the mode switch was required in the "Great Depression", when the Govt. made jobs and steered the country back to recovery and slowly backed off on some of those controls like WPA and the CCC. But that has to be a continual process, as those same economic forces still get out of control. We are on the verge of problems in the US like those of the Weimar Republic. Personally, with energy costs out of control and profiteering not unlike Enron's utility manipulation on the Oil Patch issues, I'd recommend nationalization of the Oil Industies to promote US economic recovery.

The idea of the Constitution was that the President and Congress were supposed to mediate this balance, but the problem is the Mil/Ind Network types that backed JBS now can buy Congressional Members via election campaign methods. And now the US Political system is as corrupt as that of Egypts. The US people should be in the streets as much as the Egyptians calling for reform and doing the methods of JFK to cut this overbearing power down to size and return contol of the Govt to the People.

Edited by Jim Phelps
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Per the issues of Judaism and Christ, and the issues of a Govt's that fall from within. Perhaps not due to Communism (Socialism's Extreme) or Corportate Capitalism (Fascist Oligarchic oriented) alone, but the extremes of both combined. They play both extremes against the middle ground. JFK sought the middle ground, liberty and peace.

Liberty doesn't exist in Communism and Peace doesn't exist in Capitalist's Oligarchic greed extremes.

In religion and the issues of if Jesus and the Essene were Hewbrew (Jewish) in relgion orientation, they were against the Talmudic teachings and consider pious those issues before the Babylon captivity.

The Essene masters (including Jesus, Joseph, Mary) were of the Family of David, yet many lived in Phonecia at Mt. Carmel. They were quite distinct from what they called the Serpents of the Temple at Jerusalem in their relgion, that was more akin to Buddhism than Talmudism.

The extreme orthodox Zionists appear to reject Jesus in Jerusalem, as they spit on Christians. Is Jesus Jewish in the modern sense of the departure of Judaism from the times of David and Soloman's beliefs into the religion methods handed down from Nimrod and old Babylon's methods.

If one chooses that Talmudism is Judaism, then Jesue was not Jewish. The Nazarine stood very distinctly different from the Temple's Talmudists. If one chooses that Jesus was Jewish, then only the religion history before that of the Babylon captivity need be allied to the definition of Judaic.

Since there is a large effort to White Wash who Jesus was, the follow tends to be somewhat misleading as it omits these differences between what was Eseene and what was Jewish Talmudism. Yet, if one becomes inclusive of the Essene history into the following writings, things become a lot more clear as to how long religion has been corrupted and used. This corruption of religion was JFK's greatest nemesis, and he understood it extremely well. As well as Jesus perhaps.

=======

The words of Marcus Eli Ravage, a Jewish writer from 1928 in Century Magazine of New York:

http://nationalvanguard.org/2010/12/a-real-case-against-the-jews/

http://www.zionistconspiracy.info/Article.php?ID=94444&

reprinted from The Century Magazine, January 1928

OF COURSE, YOU DO resent us. It is no good telling me you dont. So let us not waste any time on denials and alibis. You know you do, and I know it, and we understand each other. To be sure, some of your best friends are Jews, and all that. I have heard that before once or twice, I think. And I know too, that you do not include me personally me being any particular individual Jew when you fling out at us in your wholesale fashion, because I am, well, so different, dont you know, almost as good as one of yourselves. That little exemption does not, somehow, move me to gratitude; but never mind that now. It is the aggressive, climbing, pushing, materialistic sort you dislike those, in a world, who remind you so much of your own up-and-coming brethren. We understand each other perfectly. I dont hold it against you.

Bless my soul, I do not blame anybody for disliking anybody. The thing that intrigues me about this anti-Jewish business, as you play at it, you make such fantastic and transparent excuses, you seem to be suffering from self-consciousness so horribly, that if the performance were not so grotesque it would be irritating.

It is not as if you were amateurs: you have been at it for over fifteen centuries. Yet watching you and hearing your childish pretexts, one might get the impression that you did not know yourselves what it is all about. You resent us, but you cannot clearly say why. You think up a new excuse a reason is what you call it every other day. You have been piling up justification for yourself these many hundreds of years and each new invention is more laughable than the last and each new excuse contradicts and annihilates the last.

Not so many years ago I used to hear that we were money-grubbers and commercial materialists; now the complaint is being whispered around that no art and no profession is safe against Jewish invasion.

We are, if you are to be believed, at once clannish and exclusive, and unassimilable because we wont intermarry with you, and we are also climbers and pushers and a menace to your racial integrity.

Our standard of living is so low that we create your slums and sweat industries, and so high that we crowd you out of your best residential sections. We shirk our patriotic duty in wartime because we are pacifists by nature and tradition, and we are the arch-plotters of universal wars and the chief beneficiaries of those wars (see The protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion.)

We are at once the founders and leading adherents of capitalism and the chief perpetrators of the rebellion against capitalism.

Surely, history has nothing like us for versatility!

And oh! I almost forgot the reasons of reasons. We are the stiff-necked people who never accepted Christianity, and we are the criminal people who crucified its founder.

But I tell you, you are self-deceivers. You lack either the self-knowledge or the mettle to face the facts squarely and own up to the truth. You resent the Jew not because, as some of you seem to think, we crucified Jesus but because we gave him birth. Your real quarrel with us is not that we have rejected Christianity but that we have imposed it upon you!

Your loose, contradictory charges against us are not a patch on the blackness of our proved historic offence. You accuse us of stirring up revolution in Moscow. Suppose we admit the charge. What of it? Compared with what Paul the Jew of Tarsus accomplished in Rome, the Russian upheaval is a mere street brawl.

You make much noise and fury about the undue Jewish influence in your theatres and movie palaces. Very good; granted your complaint is well-founded. But what is that compared to our staggering influence in your churches, your schools, your laws and your governments, and the very thoughts you think every day?

A clumsy Russian forges a set of papers and publishes them in a book called The Protocols of the Elders of Zion which shows that we plotted to bring on the late World War. You believe that book. All right. For the sake of argument, we will underwrite every word of it. It is genuine and authentic. But what is that besides the unquestionable historical conspiracy which we have carried out, which we never have denied because you never had the courage to charge us with it, and of which the full record is extant for anybody to read?

If you really are serious when you talk of Jewish plots, may I not direct your attention to one worth talking about? What use is it wasting words on the alleged control of your public opinion by Jewish financiers, newspaper owners, and movie magnates, when you might as well justly accuse us of the proved control of your whole civilization by the Jewish Gospels?

You have not begun to appreciate the real depth of our guilt. We are intruders. We are disturbers. We are subverters. We have taken your natural world, your ideals, your destiny, and played havoc with them. We have been at the bottom of not merely the latest Great War but of nearly all your wars, not only of the Russian but of nearly every other major revolution in your history. We have brought discord and confusion and frustration into your personal and public life. We are still doing it. No one can tell how long we shall go on doing it.

Look back a little and see what has happened. Nineteen hundred years ago you were an innocent, care-free pagan race. You worshipped countless Gods and Goddesses, the spirits of the air, of the running streams and of the woodland. You took unblushing pride in the glory of your naked bodies. You carved images of your gods and of the tantalizing human figure. You delighted in the combats of the field, the arena and the battle-ground. War and slavery were fixed institutions in your systems. Disporting yourselves on the hillsides and in the valleys of the great outdoors, you took to speculating on the wonder and mystery of life and laid the foundations of natural science and philosophy. Yours was a noble, sensual culture, unirked by the prickings of the social conscience or by any sentimental questionings about human equality. Who knows what great and glorious destiny might have been yours if we had left you alone.

But we did not leave you alone. We took you in hand and pulled down the beautiful and generous structure you had reared, and changed the whole course of your history. We conquered you as no empire of yours ever subjugated Africa or Asia. And we did it all without bullets, without blood or turmoil, without force of any kind. We did it solely by the irresistible might of our spirit, with ideas, with propaganda.

We made you the willing and unconscious bearers of our mission to the whole world, to the barbarous races of the world, to the countless unborn generations. Without fully understanding what we were doing to you, you became the agents at large of our racial tradition, carrying our gospel to unexplored ends of the earth.

Our tribal customs have become the core of your moral code. Our tribal laws have furnished the basic groundwork of all your august constitutions and legal systems. Our legends and our folk-tales are the sacred lore which you croon to your infants. Our poets have filled your hymnals and your prayer-books. Our national history has become an indispensable part of the learning of your pastors and priests and scholars. Our Kings, our statesmen, our prophets, our warriors are your heroes. Our ancient little country is your Holy Land. Our national literature is your Holy Bible. What our people thought and taught has become inextricably woven into your very speech and tradition, until no one among you can be called educated who is not familiar with our racial heritage.

Jewish artisans and Jewish fishermen are your teachers and your saints, with countless statues carved in their image and innumerable cathedrals raised to their memories. A Jewish maiden is your ideal of motherhood and womanhood. A Jewish rebel-prophet is the central figure in your religious worship. We have pulled down your idols, cast aside your racial inheritance, and substituted for them our God and our traditions. No conquest in history can even remotely compare with this clean sweep of our conquest over you.

How did we do it? Almost by accident. Nearly two thousand years ago in far-off Palestine, our religion had fallen into decay and materialism. Money-changers were in possession of the temple. Degenerate, selfish priests grew fat. Then a young patriot- idealist arose and went about the land calling for a revival of the faith. He had no thought of setting up a new church. Like all the prophets before him, his only aim was to purify and revitalize the old creed. He attacked the priests and drove the money-changers from the temple. This brought him into conflict with the established order and its supporting pillars. The Roman authorities , who were in occupation of the country, fearing his revolutionary agitation as a political effort to oust them, arrested him, tried him and condemned him to death by crucifixion, a common form of execution at that time. The followers of Jesus of Nazereth, mainly slaves and poor workmen, in their bereavement and disappointment, turned away from the world and formed themselves into a brotherhood of pacifists non-resisters, sharing their memory of their crucified leader and living together communistically. They were merely a new sect in Judea, without power or consequence, neither the first nor the last.

Only after the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans did the new creed come into prominence. Then a patriotic Jew named Paul or Saul conceived the idea of humbling the Roman power by destroying the morale of its soldiery with the doctrines of love and non- resistance preached by the little sect of Jewish Christians. He became the Apostle to the Gentiles, he who hitherto had been one of the most active persecutors of the band. And so well did Paul do his work that within four centuries the great empire which had subjugated Palestine along with half of the world, was a heap of ruins. And the law which went forth from Zion became the official religion of Rome.

This was the beginning of our dominance in your world. But it was only a beginning. From this time forth your history is little more than a struggle for mastery between your own old pagan spirit and our Jewish spirit. Half your wars, great and little, are religious wars, fought over the interpretation of one thing or another in our teachings. You no sooner broke free from your primitive religious simplicity and attempted the practice of the pagan Roman learning than Luther, armed with our Gospel, arose to down you and re-enthrone our heritage. Take the three principal revolutions in modern times the French, the American, and the Russian. What are they but the triumphs of the Jewish idea of social, political and economic justice?

And the end is still a long way off. We still dominate you. At this very moment your churches are torn asunder by a civil war between Fundamentalists and Modernists, that is to say between those who cling to our teachings and traditions literally and those who are striving by slow steps to dispossess us. Again and again the Puritan heritage of Judea breaks out in waves of stage censorship, Sunday blue laws and national Prohibition acts. And while these things are happening you twaddle about Jewish influence in the movies.

Is it any wonder you resent us? We have put a clog upon your progress. We have imposed upon you an alien book and an alien faith which you cannot digest, which is at cross-purposes with your native spirit, which keeps you everlastingly ill-at-ease, and which you lack the spirit to either reject or accept in full.

In full, of course, you never have accepted our Christian teachings. In your hearts you still are pagans. You still take pride in the glory of the nude human figure. Your social conscience, in spite of all democracy and all your social revolution, is still a pitifully imperfect thing. We have merely divided your soul, confused your impulses and paralysed your desires. In the midst of the battle you are obliged to kneel down to him who commanded you to turn the other cheek, who said Resist not evil and Blessed are the peace-makers. In your lust for gain you are suddenly disturbed by a memory from your Sunday school days about taking no thought for the morrow. In your industrial struggles, when you would smash a strike without compunction, you are suddenly reminded that the poor are blessed and that men are brothers in the Fatherhood of the Lord. And as you are about to yield to temptation, your Jewish training puts a deterrent hand on your shoulder and dashes the brimming cup from your lips. You Christians have never become Christianized. To that extent we have failed with you. But we have forever spoiled the fun of paganism for you.

So why should you not resent us? If we were in your place we should probably dislike you more cordially than you do us. But we should make no bones about telling you why. We should not resort to subterfuges and transparent pretext. With millions of painfully respectable Jewish shopkeepers all about us we should not insult your intelligence and your own honesty by talking about communism as a Jewish philosophy. And with millions hard-working impecunious Jewish peddlers and labourers we should make ourselves ridiculous by talking about international capitalism as a Jewish monopoly. No, we should go straight to the point. We should contemplate this confused ineffectual muddle which we call civilization, this half- Christian half-pagan medley, and we should say to you point-blank: For this mess thanks to you, to your prophets, and your Bible.

==========

One can be assured that the Communist movements in these times certainly read and understood this religion theme above. For Communist countries the incursion of either Catholic or Baptist Missionaries into their countries was the subtile methods of Capitalists. Seriously Communist countries just banned these religion efforts. So, people like John Birch (from Rome, Ga.) and Bill Wallace (From Knoxville, Tn.) got shot by Chinese Communists. It isn't odd that the serious capitalists take up Birch or Wallace as their idols, and their symbolic compassion martyr weapon against Communism. The way Knoxville, Clinton, and Oak Ridge were inflamed over the Civil Rights issues, the could well have been a Bill Wallace Society that paralled exactly the JBS in East Tennessee.

So, we see the connections of the John Birch Society theme with these methods of using religion to control Communism. Lots of the Birchers were religion extremists and capitalistic extremists that wanted to control the US Govt. The extremes of Communism and Capitalism could not provide for liberty and peace, as only the middle ground between the two provided for both.

JFK sought both liberty and peace, that special middle ground.

Edited by Jim Phelps
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So, in the times of Marx and Germany. The issues of Socialism and Capitalistic "Empireism" (Royalistic Monarchy) were issues. The same as labor and social rights movements turned into Trottsky issues. The US was having a fit over Trottsky being so close to the US, and lots of his beliefs popping up in Monteagle, Tennessee and infecting the Negros in America.

Such Jewish derived idealist forces killed the Russian Czar, and Jewish thoughts on Socialism took over Russia. It ran more extreme under Stalin and serious Communism and bans on religion in Russia. It relaxed a bit under Khrushchev, and started leaning toward Peace in Eisenhower's term. But then the JBS came along, funded up by Rockefeller, and started nipping at the heels of Eisenhower, who called them the "Mil/Ind Network". And the same group schemed to get JFK killed. Today, Russia wages Peace and the US makes foreign wars.

Also, the Mega-Capitalists got a bigger plan with what appeared in Germany, they liked the IG Farbin model of Corporate Capitalism that sheltered their investments from taxation, and that as it grew allowed for a collective small number of corporate oligarchs to control the directions of Governments.

Just like IG Farbin became an industrial system within Germany, a system so large it was a state within a state, so the extended model for the International Jewish models for banking and industry cooperation became the new Mega-Farbin and just like IG Farbin established their own security system of killers in Germany, the new killer security system for the International Jewish version of "Mega-Farben" was PERMINDEX, or "Permanent Industrial Expositions".

While PERMINDEX was found to be a criminal operation in most of Europe, the snuck into the US. Here they came into New Orleans with Clay Shaw, and George Mandello moves in too, and into Dallas with Ferenc Nagy. They make their pitch to people like Rockefellers. After all it was Standard Oil and the Rockefeller gang that taught IG Farben how to operate. The same Rockefeller that started the JBS using Robert Welch and his bad of wigged out Communist behind every tree types. The Western Goals foundation under JBS McDonald starts a database and spy operation on anyone considered to be against their big goals for Mega-Farben like controls and following the lock step of the London controlled Masonic order on Royalist Capitalism.

So, it is no small wonder that these oligarch's amassed more control than the US Govt. itself and they started braggging of their elitist oligarchic power and where they are forcing things to go.

http://rense.com/general94/nwoplans.htm

By 1969, six short years after JFK, they had so much power over the US and Congress they started bragging about the stupidity and wrong directions in the US.

==========

Even the Bible accords on the subject of "Revelation" saw this mess coming way back in the times of Jesus and the Essene at Mt. Carmel. Revelations even foretells that the Talmudic mess will come full circle to the "Plains of Armageddon", which is next door to Mt. Carmel and near the area called Nazareth. This was the stronghold area for those against the Harlot religion influence, The Essene.

What did their pious views predict from their observations, just that the church would be overrun by the harlot beliefs (Babylon methods--the unclean church values---the Harlot seduces the church)----the merger of the Talmudic Jewish with the Christian, which Jesus, or the Essene, did not support. So, there it started.

It continues until one last great war to stop those that deceived everyone. Wars and rumors of wars, disturbed weather, its all here. It speaks to the effects of nuclear war in Isael's zone. Then after those fighting for the real history of truths, there comes a thousand years of peace on Earth.

JFK appeared to have tried to avoid this last part by avoiding the extremes of this "Mega-Farbin of International Oligrachs" and thus avoided this WWIII. But, now it will play out that truth does matter, the battle for that truth will cause a great war, and once all is said and done billions will have died, and Freedom, Liberty, and Peace will be the Norm and welcome as the world once again emerges from the Evil of those that sought to corrupt truth.

In the symbolic imagery words of the Revelation writers, the few who followed the Jesus version of Pious Jewish (sans the Talmud evils) will be rescued. Those that resist in keeping the untruths will get chewed up in their needs for wars. In the End, the Essene Value to create "Heaven Upon Earth" comes into fruition, and the world can see the real history of the world that was so long suppressed from view.

Then we see the importance of values of JFK and others. The Wisdoms of the Essene and Jesus values sustained, we find a middle Earth position not bound or driven by any extreme. We can once again return to the real truth and the light, to which most the Earth will agree. It is almost the story of the "Lord of the Rings" / "Fellowship of The Ring", but this time real life tempations on the power of Money and control.

The Islamics value Jesus and the Essene as Great Prophets, the Essene were long allied with Bhudhist beliefs, and Hindu's do fine too. So, 3/4 of the Earth will ally against the Harlot's system. It has taken much time, but the truth will win out.

==========

Edited by Jim Phelps
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It is almost the story of the "Lord of the Rings" / "Fellowship of The Ring",

Jim, what about ''The Two Towers'' ?

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Yes, "Two Towers" symbolism is important also. It was a trilogy.

JRR Tolkin was an interesting person. Perhaps in his efforts to make Childrens Fairy Tales, his intellect saw many of the real demons of society that were cast into his writings.

Tolkin was brilliant in many languages, especially German, and was invited to become a UK Code Breaker at Bletchley Park, with a huge salary for that time. He turned them down, as it appears he was disgusted with the unlimited warfare on Germany and Japan and he didn't want to become part of the club.

It is interesting that perhaps Tolkin, A British Military type, saw the importance of the "middle ground" position, and perhaps while he could not say it openly, but could in his books in a hidden sort of manner. Perhaps Tolkin is was a literary fellow messing with the UK Empire, as Michaelangelo did with the Pope on the ceilings of the Vatican's Church via "The Creation". Both became epics. The Creation is a huge Masonic symbol.

Edited by Jim Phelps
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