Brian O Connor Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 (edited) Interesting hypothesis Brian, Ian Fleming would have been proud of that one. Good luck. Denis. I agree, but maybe not so far fetched considering Flemings previous employment. But, to clarify the mirrors idea; all that would be required here is a marker point on the mirror to show that the President was sitting in the correct line of trajectory from a fixed firing device concealed in the door. Edited October 10, 2009 by Brian O Connor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian O Connor Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Hard to believe, but have just come accross these two items on Ebay. Two blankets from the side door pockets of the Dallas assassinantion car. Per a December 18, 1963 memo (stored at the National Archives) the lap robes were in the rear seat area of JFK's limousine when it was returned from Dallas to the White House garage on November 22, 1963. TWO (2) AUTHENTIC DARK BLUE JFK LIMOUSINE (X-100) BROADCLOTH LAP ROBES/BLANKETS Here is a unique opportunity to obtain a set of ultra-rare historical collectibles from John F. Kennedy's presidential limousine (code named X-100). We have in our possession both of the dark blue broadcloth lap blankets / robes that were made especially for the limousine and used by the President during chilly open-air rides. These lap robes are the only two that are known to exist for that presidential limo. When not being used, the blankets were each stored snuggly in the inside pocket of each rear door (see photo for depiction). The heavy blankets are dark blue on one side with the presidential seal hand sewn into them. The back side of each blanket features a soft gray plush lining. The blankets were each made with 10 button/snaps, used to attach it to the inside paneling of the car or to each other. Two of the snaps are missing in one of the blankets per photographs. The other blanket has all snaps in tact. * Each blanket measures 51" long by 41.5" wide * Hand embroidered Presidential Seal on the front of each blanket measures 6.75" in diameter, reads - "Seal of the President of the United States", and features the traditional American Eagle in the center (with arrows and olive branch) * Button snaps marked RAU-Fastener Co. Per a December 18, 1963 memo (stored at the National Archives) the lap robes were in the rear seat area of JFK's limousine when it was returned from Dallas to the White House garage on November 22, 1963. The auction includes a letter of authenticity from the current owner that describes how he obtained the blankets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 (edited) I'd rather have the model limo. Maybe it shoots projectiles like Corgi's old 007 Aston Martin (with ejector seat!) Edited October 11, 2009 by David Andrews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian O Connor Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 (edited) Hi David, I suppose that having proposed a particular theory I should defend it, but my purpose here is to offer a plausible explanation of a conundrum which doesn’t seem to have been resolved satisfactorily up to now. I don’t agree with the idea that the umbrella man could have fired the shot which caused the throat wound, but I am grateful to the people who have explored the possibility and laid out their evidence supporting the proposition. Otherwise, I would have had to do the work myself. Maybe my idea is a bit “elastic bands and lollypop sticks,” but I think one has to explore every avenue, even if it leads to a dead end. Eventually we will discover the solution; waiting for the assassins to explain how they did it, doesn’t seem to me to be a viable alternative. (I am not inferring that your criticism suggests this either) On the other hand maybe my scheme is not so outlandish considering toxic cigars, expoding molluscs, contaminated diving suits etc etc and other fiendishly cunning plans proposed by the CIA`s finest. See Channel 4 documentary 638 Ways to Kill Castro. All the same, I think that its pretty extraordinary that evidential material which belongs in a forensic lab (or maybe not considering how other evidence has been destroyed) can be offered for sale on the internet. Isn’t this the property of the state? Assuming that it got out during the refurbishment of the car, isn’t there a case to have it impounded or if it was sold to find out who received the proceeds? It may well be that the rugs were removed that night from the garage, in which case, I would be interested knowing why. Edited October 12, 2009 by Brian O Connor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Feemster Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Hi Dennis, I don't know but its awful funny that two fellows are standing very close together while one raises his umbrella and one raises his hand in the air at a certain point { read Hash Mark } at the same time. DAL TEX SHOOTER FIRE AGAIN! RECORD BUILDING SHOOTER FIRE AGAIN! WEST CORNER TSBD SHOOTER FIRE AGAIN! I don't know the shot sequences when our fellows are signaling [ does anyone on this forum know ? ] of course these thoughts are just my opinion and not facts but i strongly feel both these guys are dirty. JIM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Richards Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I submit the function of the man and the umbrella was simply to serve as a distraction. The incongruous site of a man holding an open umbrella on a fine day would have had the SS looking at him and not at the man a short distance away with his hand in the air. Subtle slight of hand, nothing more. FWIW. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 One thing is certain. Witt was not the man with the umbrella. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 (edited) hobrad.angelfire.com/umbrella.html But there is a problem with Witt's HSCA testimony. The photographic evidence plainly contradicts Witt's description of his actions during the moments ... CHRIS DAVISON'S GIF...SORRY CHRIS YOURS DID NOT WORK..PERHAPS YOU HAVE IT HANDY... Umbrella Man & Dark-Complected Man .......AND JACK'S INFORMATIVE COMP..THANKS..IN BRONSON DCMAN IS OFF THE CURB.. Plus Jim Hicks.... http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=NB-TLTWAh6s&...feature=related B.. Edited October 13, 2009 by Bernice Moore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Haley Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 One thing is certain. Witt was not the man with the umbrella.Jack I agree. He had over a decade to get his story straight and got it completely wrong. As I pointed out earlier in this thread, Witt testified to the HSCA that he was walking toward the motorcade trying to get his umbrella open and didn't see the shooting. Well, the photographic evidence available doesn't back up his story. Precisely the opposite. It reveals a man standing still with an umbrella open, well above his eyeline, an un-obstructed view just before the President was shot. Umbrella Man had a perfect view. I don't know what the man was doing with an umbrella but there's every reason to believe it isn't Witt. Which begs the question. Why did he come forward ? If he was part of a conspiracy surely he would have been given a cover story that matched up with photos seen here in this thread ? Perhaps he was just seeking publicity. It's plausible that the 'anonymous phone caller' who named Witt as Umbrella Man was none other than Witt himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 (edited) One thing is certain. Witt was not the man with the umbrella.Jack I agree. He had over a decade to get his story straight and got it completely wrong. As I pointed out earlier in this thread, Witt testified to the HSCA that he was walking toward the motorcade trying to get his umbrella open and didn't see the shooting. Well, the photographic evidence available doesn't back up his story. Precisely the opposite. It reveals a man standing still with an umbrella open, well above his eyeline, an un-obstructed view just before the President was shot. Umbrella Man had a perfect view. I don't know what the man was doing with an umbrella but there's every reason to believe it isn't Witt. Which begs the question. Why did he come forward ? If he was part of a conspiracy surely he would have been given a cover story that matched up with photos seen here in this thread ? Perhaps he was just seeking publicity. It's plausible that the 'anonymous phone caller' who named Witt as Umbrella Man was none other than Witt himself. SOME FROM THE HSCA AND A COUPLE FURTHER OF JACK'S STUDIES.... B Edited October 13, 2009 by Bernice Moore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian O Connor Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I see that the discussion has moved on and maybe my original post would have been better placed elsewhere, but here is a little more info on Mr Douglas Bazata who claimed to have made a failed assassination attempt on Gen Patton. His description of the device that he maintains to have used in the attempt was that it worked on a spring and compressed air mechanism and could fire almost anything, even a tea cup. They found that the best projectile was a small cube shaped missile. I mention it to show that 18 years before Dallas a weapon of this type may have been available. "Bazata's confident claims that a special weapon made in Czechoslovakia was used to strike Patton in the head. The weapon was designed to propel seemingly innocuous objects like metal or rocks at terrific force. This weapon, fired at about 10 yards away, allegedly caused the severe head wound and broke Patton's neck." Douglas Bazata from http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/6...g4.html?cat=37: One of the most intriguing theories that Patton was the target of a plot comes from an ex-U.S. intelligence agent who claimed he was paid to kill Patton. Douglas Bazata started his espionage career in 1926 and continued it for over 50 years in the Marine Corps and OSS. Bazata told 450 guests at the Hilton Hotel in Washington D.C. on September 25, 1979, that he was solicited by OSS head Bill Donovan to kill Patton for money. Bazata told the Hilton Hotel audience, "For diverse political reasons, many extremely high-ranking persons hated Patton. I know who killed him. Because I am the one who was hired to do it. Ten thousand dollars. General William Donovan himself, director of the O.S.S, entrusted me with the mission. I set up the accident. Since he didn't die in the accident, he was kept in isolation in the hospital, where he was killed with an injection."[ii] The story was reported in the Washington Star and The Spotlight magazine.[iii] Bazata claimed he was commissioned to kill Patton in a series of eight meetings with Donovan. The Washington Star reported that Bazata's interview was analyzed by a Psychological Stress Evaluator (PSE), a polygraph machine that measures stress in the voice, and reported that Bazata is telling the truth. Bazata said he was paid a total of $10,800 on two occasions by Donovan. He accepted the money and told Donovan that he would kill Patton, but in reality had no intention of trying. He said he worked with Donovan on the surface only because he feared for his life if he didn't. Soon after he was paid, Bazata was confronted by a confident and told that he too had been contracted to kill Patton. Who had hired the other man, Bazata never knew. Why Donovan wanted Patton dead was unclear to Bazata. Donovan could have been the only instigator, or been the mouthpiece for another individual or group" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 (edited) I see that the discussion has moved on and maybe my original post would have been better placed elsewhere, but here is a little more info on Mr Douglas Bazata who claimed to have made a failed assassination attempt on Gen Patton.His description of the device that he maintains to have used in the attempt was that it worked on a spring and compressed air mechanism and could fire almost anything, even a tea cup. They found that the best projectile was a small cube shaped missile. I mention it to show that 18 years before Dallas a weapon of this type may have been available. "Bazata's confident claims that a special weapon made in Czechoslovakia was used to strike Patton in the head. The weapon was designed to propel seemingly innocuous objects like metal or rocks at terrific force. This weapon, fired at about 10 yards away, allegedly caused the severe head wound and broke Patton's neck." Douglas Bazata from http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/6...g4.html?cat=37: One of the most intriguing theories that Patton was the target of a plot comes from an ex-U.S. intelligence agent who claimed he was paid to kill Patton. Douglas Bazata started his espionage career in 1926 and continued it for over 50 years in the Marine Corps and OSS. Bazata told 450 guests at the Hilton Hotel in Washington D.C. on September 25, 1979, that he was solicited by OSS head Bill Donovan to kill Patton for money. Bazata told the Hilton Hotel audience, "For diverse political reasons, many extremely high-ranking persons hated Patton. I know who killed him. Because I am the one who was hired to do it. Ten thousand dollars. General William Donovan himself, director of the O.S.S, entrusted me with the mission. I set up the accident. Since he didn't die in the accident, he was kept in isolation in the hospital, where he was killed with an injection."[ii] The story was reported in the Washington Star and The Spotlight magazine.[iii] Bazata claimed he was commissioned to kill Patton in a series of eight meetings with Donovan. The Washington Star reported that Bazata's interview was analyzed by a Psychological Stress Evaluator (PSE), a polygraph machine that measures stress in the voice, and reported that Bazata is telling the truth. Bazata said he was paid a total of $10,800 on two occasions by Donovan. He accepted the money and told Donovan that he would kill Patton, but in reality had no intention of trying. He said he worked with Donovan on the surface only because he feared for his life if he didn't. Soon after he was paid, Bazata was confronted by a confident and told that he too had been contracted to kill Patton. Who had hired the other man, Bazata never knew. Why Donovan wanted Patton dead was unclear to Bazata. Donovan could have been the only instigator, or been the mouthpiece for another individual or group" THANKS BRIAN FOR THE FURTHER AND VERY INTERESTING INFORMATION........SEE BELOW FROM CUTLER AND SPRAGUE ://jfkresearch.com/forum3/index.php/topic,3276.40.html 1.08 INCH PUSH ROD FLECHETTE 1.08 INCH STING RAY FLECHETTE 1.1 INCH COATED BEE HIVE FLECHETTE 1.2 INCH COATED FLEX FLECHETTE WEAPONS LAW LINK...Bill Number: SB 578 http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/01-02/bill/sen/...9_enrolled.html http://www.bombsecurity.com/CABO/caboweap3.html Edited October 13, 2009 by Bernice Moore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...=126&t=9620 B.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 (edited) Brian - no offense. If you look on the internet, though, you'll find that there already has been a limo-gun theory floated, related to the two projections on the trunk of the limo, behind the death seat. (Forgive me, but I've forgotten what the function of those two projections was.) I, myself, have had a hard time tracing the head shot path back to a forward location, and once stayed up until 3 a.m. trying to rationalize it in these pages, a fool's errand. +++ Umbrella Man - he'd make a great Novel, though... Edited October 13, 2009 by David Andrews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian O Connor Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 (edited) Dealy Plaza is such a big place, and all things considered, I wonder why the UM would choose that particlar place to stand rather than say, accross the road , well out of harms way, and in clear view of the Book depository, the grassy knoll, the Daltex building, somone down in the drains, the Stemmons freeway bridge etc. Cause` the place he choose looks to me to be a pretty awful choice, if he were trying to signal someone say on on the knoll, or someone hunkered in the drains for example, obscured as he was, by a great big TRAFFIC SIGN! And, why do they erect traffic signs and where do they get placed? They give directions, and they are set up where they in clear view of the road and easily seen by the drivers passing by. So, pumping his umbrella in the air in front of a great big road sign, who would be most likely to see it first? Edited October 13, 2009 by Brian O Connor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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