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Motorcycle Officers "Martin & Chaney"


Robin Unger

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I forgot to mention these quotes from Officer B.W. Hargis' interviews with the HSCA:

On November 16, 1977: "The second shot hit JFK in the head. The presidential car had slowed almost to a stop";

On August 8, 1978: "When the second shot was fired - no doubt gunfire this time as it hit the President's head - the limousine slowed so much it practically stopped...";

On December 29, 1978: "... the limousine slowed and nearly stopped ..."

The limo nearly, almost, practically - but never actually - stopped....

Chris

My appreciation, as I had missed that Hargis also stated that the second shot (aka/the Z313 impact) struck JFK in the head.

Chaney is of record as having stated that the Preident's head "exploded" with the second shot as well.

Both statements of which are well founded in the facts and testimonies.

Tom

This is echoed By Brehm's Statement The second shot being the head shot aka "313" . and Altgens realises what they want and fluffs his lines and starts babbling.In plain sight ?.

Hargis is not as good a second shot/headshot witness as we would like. He only heard two shots. In fact, unlike some two shot witnesses--who later claimed they heard three, e.g. Newman, Williams, Hargis continues to insist there really were but two shots.

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I forgot to mention these quotes from Officer B.W. Hargis' interviews with the HSCA:

On November 16, 1977: "The second shot hit JFK in the head. The presidential car had slowed almost to a stop";

On August 8, 1978: "When the second shot was fired - no doubt gunfire this time as it hit the President's head - the limousine slowed so much it practically stopped...";

On December 29, 1978: "... the limousine slowed and nearly stopped ..."

The limo nearly, almost, practically - but never actually - stopped....

Chris

Chris, or anyone else in the know.... are these interviews online? If not, can you post all the statements regarding the shooting--when the shots were fired, how many, where the bullets impacted, etc?

I noticed also that the last date is the date Blakey presented Hargis' WC testimony to the HSCA committee. Is the final quote a paraphrase of this testimony, or was there really a separate interview on that same date?

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I forgot to mention these quotes from Officer B.W. Hargis' interviews with the HSCA:

On November 16, 1977: "The second shot hit JFK in the head. The presidential car had slowed almost to a stop";

On August 8, 1978: "When the second shot was fired - no doubt gunfire this time as it hit the President's head - the limousine slowed so much it practically stopped...";

On December 29, 1978: "... the limousine slowed and nearly stopped ..."

The limo nearly, almost, practically - but never actually - stopped....

Chris

Chris, or anyone else in the know.... are these interviews online? If not, can you post all the statements regarding the shooting--when the shots were fired, how many, where the bullets impacted, etc?

I noticed also that the last date is the date Blakey presented Hargis' WC testimony to the HSCA committee. Is the final quote a paraphrase of this testimony, or was there really a separate interview on that same date?

Pat:

The three interviews to which I referred are HSCA documents, all on file at NARA, but not online anywhere as far as I know (I bought copies from NARA). The details are:

An interview by James Kelly and Harold Rose on October 26, 1977 (JFK document #003300, RIF 180-10107-10243); an interview report by Jack Moriarty dated August 8, 1978 (JFK document #014362, RIF 180-10113-10272); and a memorandum of yet another interview with Hargis by Jack Moriarty on December 29, 1978 (JFK document # 014224, RIF 180-10109-10354).

Unfortunately, they are filed away somewhere right now, so I don't have immediate access to them, but I assure you that the dates, and the quotes, are accurate. You are correct about the one on December 29, 1978 - I hadn't spotted the significance of the date before you pointed it out. I have a vague recollection that it might have been a telephone contact between Moriarty and Hargis on that date, but I'm not certain without looking up the actual document.

If you need anything further, let me know, and I'll dig the old files out of storage.

Chris.

Edited by Chris Scally
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I forgot to mention these quotes from Officer B.W. Hargis' interviews with the HSCA:

On November 16, 1977: "The second shot hit JFK in the head. The presidential car had slowed almost to a stop";

On August 8, 1978: "When the second shot was fired - no doubt gunfire this time as it hit the President's head - the limousine slowed so much it practically stopped...";

On December 29, 1978: "... the limousine slowed and nearly stopped ..."

The limo nearly, almost, practically - but never actually - stopped....

Chris

My appreciation, as I had missed that Hargis also stated that the second shot (aka/the Z313 impact) struck JFK in the head.

Chaney is of record as having stated that the Preident's head "exploded" with the second shot as well.

Both statements of which are well founded in the facts and testimonies.

Tom

This is echoed By Brehm's Statement The second shot being the head shot aka "313" . and Altgens realises what they want and fluffs his lines and starts babbling.In plain sight ?.

It is "echoed" by many, to include two of the SS Agents in the followup limo.

Just that the WC (apparantly intentionally) neglected to question most of those who had reported the headshot (Z313 impact) as being the second shot.

For the official record, the Z313 is, was, and has always been the second shot!

Tom

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I forgot to mention these quotes from Officer B.W. Hargis' interviews with the HSCA:

On November 16, 1977: "The second shot hit JFK in the head. The presidential car had slowed almost to a stop";

On August 8, 1978: "When the second shot was fired - no doubt gunfire this time as it hit the President's head - the limousine slowed so much it practically stopped...";

On December 29, 1978: "... the limousine slowed and nearly stopped ..."

The limo nearly, almost, practically - but never actually - stopped....

Chris

Chris, or anyone else in the know.... are these interviews online? If not, can you post all the statements regarding the shooting--when the shots were fired, how many, where the bullets impacted, etc?

I noticed also that the last date is the date Blakey presented Hargis' WC testimony to the HSCA committee. Is the final quote a paraphrase of this testimony, or was there really a separate interview on that same date?

Pat:

The three interviews to which I referred are HSCA documents, all on file at NARA, but not online anywhere as far as I know (I bought copies from NARA). The details are:

An interview by James Kelly and Harold Rose on October 26, 1977 (JFK document #003300, RIF 180-10107-10243); an interview report by Jack Moriarty dated August 8, 1978 (JFK document #014362, RIF 180-10113-10272); and a memorandum of yet another interview with Hargis by Jack Moriarty on December 29, 1978 (JFK document # 014224, RIF 180-10109-10354).

Unfortunately, they are filed away somewhere right now, so I don't have immediate access to them, but I assure you that the dates, and the quotes, are accurate. You are correct about the one on December 29, 1978 - I hadn't spotted the significance of the date before you pointed it out. I have a vague recollection that it might have been a telephone contact between Moriarty and Hargis on that date, but I'm not certain without looking up the actual document.

If you need anything further, let me know, and I'll dig the old files out of storage.

Chris.

Chris, thanks for your response. First, a bit of confusion. In your earlier post you said the first HSCA interview was on November 16, 1977. In your new post you write that it was on October 26. 1977. Which is correct?

Second, if you ever get access to the interviews again, I'd appreciate it if you could post the exact words in the report regarding 1) Hargis' location when he heard the shots, 2) How many shots he thought he heard, 3) the impact location of the shots, 4) Kennedy's and Connally's response to the shots, and 5) from where he thought the shots were fired. While he has been interviewed plenty, I have turned chapters 5 through 9 of my website into a database of witness statements, so that people can see ALL the recorded statements of the many witnesses to the shooting at one glance, to minimize the impact of cherry-picking.

Thanks again, Pat

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I forgot to mention these quotes from Officer B.W. Hargis' interviews with the HSCA:

On November 16, 1977: "The second shot hit JFK in the head. The presidential car had slowed almost to a stop";

On August 8, 1978: "When the second shot was fired - no doubt gunfire this time as it hit the President's head - the limousine slowed so much it practically stopped...";

On December 29, 1978: "... the limousine slowed and nearly stopped ..."

The limo nearly, almost, practically - but never actually - stopped....

Chris

My appreciation, as I had missed that Hargis also stated that the second shot (aka/the Z313 impact) struck JFK in the head.

Chaney is of record as having stated that the Preident's head "exploded" with the second shot as well.

Both statements of which are well founded in the facts and testimonies.

Tom

This is echoed By Brehm's Statement The second shot being the head shot aka "313" . and Altgens realises what they want and fluffs his lines and starts babbling.In plain sight ?.

It is "echoed" by many, to include two of the SS Agents in the followup limo.

Just that the WC (apparantly intentionally) neglected to question most of those who had reported the headshot (Z313 impact) as being the second shot.

For the official record, the Z313 is, was, and has always been the second shot!

Tom

I see, Tom, that you are still in denial. While the FBI and SS claimed the second shot occurred when the limo was near its location at 313, they ALWAYS claimed this was the shot hitting Connally, and that the shot hitting Kennedy in the head came later. You, however, seem pre-disposed to believe the wonderful patriots in the FBI and SS wouldn't lie, and that it was the evil WC who forced them to lie later.

That's nonsense. Find us ONE memo in which the FBI or SS claim there was a shot after the head shot. ONE. There isn't one. Instead, we find things like this...

FBI report

FBI Report

Connally claimed he'd been hit by the second shot, ergo, the FBI and SS--from the very beginning--claimed he'd been hit by the second shot.

Edited by Pat Speer
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Chris, thanks for your response. First, a bit of confusion. In your earlier post you said the first HSCA interview was on November 16, 1977. In your new post you write that it was on October 26. 1977. Which is correct?

Second, if you ever get access to the interviews again, I'd appreciate it if you could post the exact words in the report regarding 1) Hargis' location when he heard the shots, 2) How many shots he thought he heard, 3) the impact location of the shots, 4) Kennedy's and Connally's response to the shots, and 5) from where he thought the shots were fired. While he has been interviewed plenty, I have turned chapters 5 through 9 of my website into a database of witness statements, so that people can see ALL the recorded statements of the many witnesses to the shooting at one glance, to minimize the impact of cherry-picking.

Thanks again, Pat

Pat:

First, my apologies that it has taken me so long to get back to you, but I didn't get an opportunity to look for the files until last night.

Re the discrepancy over the date of the second contact with Hargis. This was brought about by the fact that the actual interview took place on October 26, 1977, but the interview notes were not typed up until November 16. Again, my apologies for any confusion caused.

I have typed below, verbatim, the interview notes as they relate to the questions you asked, followed by my answers to your five questions. However, as I now have the material to hand, please let me know if there is anything further you require.

Chris.

Interview of Bobby Weldon Hargis at his home on August 8, 1978 at 2:30 pm

Interviewer Jack Moriarty; interview notes transcribed by "Ross" on August 23, 1978

JFK document #014362, RIF 180-10113-10272

"When the first report sounded, he was "about one-third of the way down Elm", having made the last turn from Houston. It sounded like a firecracker, but he was unable to tell where it came from. He looked to his right and saw Connally turning and the President appeared to be leaning forward as if he was trying to hear what the Governor was saying. He had seen JFK lean forward in like manner during the motorcade as he and Connally had been conversing. This time, though, the President had an expression of pain on his face.

When the second shot was fired - no doubt gunfire this time as it hit the President's head - the limousine slowed so much it practically stopped and he had to put his feet down to maintain balance. Then the driver accelerated and several motormen started the escort.

Hargis remained behind parking his bike where it stood in the left side of Elm now about one half way down the hill. He ran to the grassy knoll and continued until he had reached the top section of the underpass. Finding nothing significant, he returned to his bike - still on the stand with the radio on (and working) and the engine off.

He started the bike and drove back up Elm and parked just west of the front door of the TSBD where he joined Brewer as they became part of the effort to seal off this building, although, he adds, at that time no-one was certain just where the shots had come from."

So, in summary -

1) Hargis' location when he heard the shots - about one-third of the way down Elm

2) How many shots he thought he heard - he mentions two shots

3) the impact location of the shots - only mentions the second shot, which hit the President's head

4) Kennedy's and Connally's response to the shots - Connally turning, and the President leaning forward as if trying to hear what Connally was saying. President had an expression of pain on his face

5) from where he thought the shots were fired - unable to tell where the first shot came from. Overall, no one was initially certain where the shots had come from

Interview of Robert Hargis at his home on October 26, 1977

Interviewers James Kelly and Harold Rose; interview notes transcribed by "am" (initials) on November 16, 1977

JFK document #003300, RIF 180-10107-10243

"When they turned left on Elm from Houston, he was watching the President's car. Shortly afterwards, he heard a shot. He saw President Kennedy slump forward and Governor Connally turn. He felt at the time that Connally might have been hit and the President was leaning forward to find out what happened. He said the first shot sounded to him like a firecracker.

The second shot hit JFK in the head. The presidential car had slowed almost to a stop. After the second shot, the car accelerated rapidly and sped to Parkland Hospital.

Hargis said he pulled over to the curb at the grassy knoll. He got off the bike and went up the hill on the grass. He didn't see anyone with a gun, so he went over to the Texas School Book Depository at 411 Elm Street and helped other police officers seal it off."

In summary, therefore:

1) Hargis' location when he heard the shots - on Elm Street, shortly after he turned onto Elm from Houston

2) How many shots he thought he heard - not specified directly, but he referred to two

3) the impact location of the shots - thought the first one might have hit Connally, second one hit JFK in the head

4) Kennedy's and Connally's response to the shots - JFK slumped forward and Connally turned, in response to first shot. Did not comment on reactions to second shot

5) from where he thought the shots were fired - not specified

Memorandum

To: Clifford Fenton

From: Jack Moriarty

Date: December 29, 1978

Re: Bobby Weldon Hargis Reinterview

JFK document # 014224, RIF 180-10109-10354

"Reached Mr. Hargis at his new residence... today and developed the following additional information.

At the sound of the first shot, he was "in position" - some five to six feet from the left corner of the rear bumper of John F. Kennedy limousine.

At the sound of the second shot, he was a bit closer (the limousine slowed and nearly stopped) - perhaps four feet.

By the third shot (although he doesn't recall the actual, but saw John F. Kennedy's head explode), he was "almost even with Jackie - no more than two or three feet, if that.""

In summary:

1) Hargis' location when he heard the shots - five to six feet to the left rear of the limo

2) How many shots he thought he heard - three, "although he doesn't recall the actual" (presumably third) shot

3) the impact location of the shots - third shot hit President's head

4) Kennedy's and Connally's response to the shots - saw the President's head explode

5) from where he thought the shots were fired - not mentioned

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Pat:

First, my apologies that it has taken me so long to get back to you, but I didn't get an opportunity to look for the files until last night.

Re the discrepancy over the date of the second contact with Hargis. This was brought about by the fact that the actual interview took place on October 26, 1977, but the interview notes were not typed up until November 16. Again, my apologies for any confusion caused.

I have typed below, verbatim, the interview notes as they relate to the questions you asked, followed by my answers to your five questions. However, as I now have the material to hand, please let me know if there is anything further you require.

Chris.

Interview of Bobby Weldon Hargis at his home on August 8, 1978 at 2:30 pm

Interviewer Jack Moriarty; interview notes transcribed by "Ross" on August 23, 1978

JFK document #014362, RIF 180-10113-10272

"When the first report sounded, he was "about one-third of the way down Elm", having made the last turn from Houston. It sounded like a firecracker, but he was unable to tell where it came from. He looked to his right and saw Connally turning and the President appeared to be leaning forward as if he was trying to hear what the Governor was saying. He had seen JFK lean forward in like manner during the motorcade as he and Connally had been conversing. This time, though, the President had an expression of pain on his face.

When the second shot was fired - no doubt gunfire this time as it hit the President's head - the limousine slowed so much it practically stopped and he had to put his feet down to maintain balance. Then the driver accelerated and several motormen started the escort.

Hargis remained behind parking his bike where it stood in the left side of Elm now about one half way down the hill. He ran to the grassy knoll and continued until he had reached the top section of the underpass. Finding nothing significant, he returned to his bike - still on the stand with the radio on (and working) and the engine off.

He started the bike and drove back up Elm and parked just west of the front door of the TSBD where he joined Brewer as they became part of the effort to seal off this building, although, he adds, at that time no-one was certain just where the shots had come from."

So, in summary -

1) Hargis' location when he heard the shots - about one-third of the way down Elm

2) How many shots he thought he heard - he mentions two shots

3) the impact location of the shots - only mentions the second shot, which hit the President's head

4) Kennedy's and Connally's response to the shots - Connally turning, and the President leaning forward as if trying to hear what Connally was saying. President had an expression of pain on his face

5) from where he thought the shots were fired - unable to tell where the first shot came from. Overall, no one was initially certain where the shots had come from

Interview of Robert Hargis at his home on October 26, 1977

Interviewers James Kelly and Harold Rose; interview notes transcribed by "am" (initials) on November 16, 1977

JFK document #003300, RIF 180-10107-10243

"When they turned left on Elm from Houston, he was watching the President's car. Shortly afterwards, he heard a shot. He saw President Kennedy slump forward and Governor Connally turn. He felt at the time that Connally might have been hit and the President was leaning forward to find out what happened. He said the first shot sounded to him like a firecracker.

The second shot hit JFK in the head. The presidential car had slowed almost to a stop. After the second shot, the car accelerated rapidly and sped to Parkland Hospital.

Hargis said he pulled over to the curb at the grassy knoll. He got off the bike and went up the hill on the grass. He didn't see anyone with a gun, so he went over to the Texas School Book Depository at 411 Elm Street and helped other police officers seal it off."

In summary, therefore:

1) Hargis' location when he heard the shots - on Elm Street, shortly after he turned onto Elm from Houston

2) How many shots he thought he heard - not specified directly, but he referred to two

3) the impact location of the shots - thought the first one might have hit Connally, second one hit JFK in the head

4) Kennedy's and Connally's response to the shots - JFK slumped forward and Connally turned, in response to first shot. Did not comment on reactions to second shot

5) from where he thought the shots were fired - not specified

Memorandum

To: Clifford Fenton

From: Jack Moriarty

Date: December 29, 1978

Re: Bobby Weldon Hargis Reinterview

JFK document # 014224, RIF 180-10109-10354

"Reached Mr. Hargis at his new residence... today and developed the following additional information.

At the sound of the first shot, he was "in position" - some five to six feet from the left corner of the rear bumper of John F. Kennedy limousine.

At the sound of the second shot, he was a bit closer (the limousine slowed and nearly stopped) - perhaps four feet.

By the third shot (although he doesn't recall the actual, but saw John F. Kennedy's head explode), he was "almost even with Jackie - no more than two or three feet, if that.""

In summary:

1) Hargis' location when he heard the shots - five to six feet to the left rear of the limo

2) How many shots he thought he heard - three, "although he doesn't recall the actual" (presumably third) shot

3) the impact location of the shots - third shot hit President's head

4) Kennedy's and Connally's response to the shots - saw the President's head explode

5) from where he thought the shots were fired - not mentioned

Excellent, Chris. I've updated my list of statements by Hargis.

Thank you.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I forgot to mention these quotes from Officer B.W. Hargis' interviews with the HSCA:

On November 16, 1977: "The second shot hit JFK in the head. The presidential car had slowed almost to a stop";

On August 8, 1978: "When the second shot was fired - no doubt gunfire this time as it hit the President's head - the limousine slowed so much it practically stopped...";

On December 29, 1978: "... the limousine slowed and nearly stopped ..."

The limo nearly, almost, practically - but never actually - stopped....

Chris

My appreciation, as I had missed that Hargis also stated that the second shot (aka/the Z313 impact) struck JFK in the head.

Chaney is of record as having stated that the Preident's head "exploded" with the second shot as well.

Both statements of which are well founded in the facts and testimonies.

Tom

This is echoed By Brehm's Statement The second shot being the head shot aka "313" . and Altgens realises what they want and fluffs his lines and starts babbling.In plain sight ?.

It is "echoed" by many, to include two of the SS Agents in the followup limo.

Just that the WC (apparantly intentionally) neglected to question most of those who had reported the headshot (Z313 impact) as being the second shot.

For the official record, the Z313 is, was, and has always been the second shot!

Tom

I see, Tom, that you are still in denial. While the FBI and SS claimed the second shot occurred when the limo was near its location at 313, they ALWAYS claimed this was the shot hitting Connally, and that the shot hitting Kennedy in the head came later. You, however, seem pre-disposed to believe the wonderful patriots in the FBI and SS wouldn't lie, and that it was the evil WC who forced them to lie later.

That's nonsense. Find us ONE memo in which the FBI or SS claim there was a shot after the head shot. ONE. There isn't one. Instead, we find things like this...

FBI report

FBI Report

Connally claimed he'd been hit by the second shot, ergo, the FBI and SS--from the very beginning--claimed he'd been hit by the second shot.

"Connally claimed he'd been hit by the second shot, ergo, the FBI and SS--from the very beginning--claimed he'd been hit by the second shot."

Well! Since JBC was in fact struck in the wrist by a fragment from the second shot/aka Z313 impact, this most certainly is not a complete misrepresentation on his part.

However:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/conn_j.htm

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I just sat there, and Mrs. Connally pulled me over to her lap. She was sitting, of course, on the jump seat, so I reclined with my head in her lap, conscious all the time, and with my eyes open; and then, of course, the third shot sounded, and I heard the shot very clearly. I heard it hit him.

Obviously, it couldn't have been the third, because when the third shot was fired I was in a reclining position, and heard it, saw it and the effects of it, rather--I didn't see it, I saw the effects of it--so it obviously could not have been the third, and couldn't have been the first, in my judgment.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/hscacon.htm

I was in her lap facing forward when another shot was fired.

Mr. CONNALLY. No, I heard another shot which was the shot that was fired after Nellie had pulled me down into her lap.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/conn_n.htm

I just pulled him over into my arms because it would have been impossible to get us really both down with me sitting and me holding him. So that I looked out, I mean as he was in my arms, I put my head down over his head so that his head and my head were right together, and all I could see, too, were the people flashing by. I didn't look back any more. The third shot that I heard I felt, it felt like spent buckshot falling all over us, and then, of course, I too could see that it was the matter, brain tissue, or whatever, just human matter, all over the car and both of us.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/hscacon.htm

The only thing I could do was pull him down and by leaning over him, I hoped if anything else happened, they wouldn't hurt him anymore. I never looked back after John was hit. I heard Mrs. Kennedy say, "they have shot my husband."

Then, I heard a third shot and felt matter cover us

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/altgens.htm

That was the last shot--that much I will say with a great degree of certainty.

Mr. LIEBELER - What makes you so certain of that, Mr. Altgens?

Mr. ALTGENS - Because, having heard these shots and then having seen the damage that was done on this shot to the President's head, I was aware at that time that shooting was taking place and there was not a shot--

There was flesh particles that flew out of the side of his head in my direction from where I was standing

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Nope! JBC IS NOT down in the seat at this point of impact.

http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z313.jpg

Reckon perhaps, just as many of the witnesses claimed, this is in fact the second shot.

Tom.

P.S. Just for your information, the SS as well as the FBI determined the third shot impact point to be directly in front of James Altgens location, which also happens to be some 30-feet farther down Elm St. from the Z312/313 impact.

Personally, I would neither accept nor believe anything which is claimed by anyone on the subject matter.

However, I would research the facts and witness testimonies prior to stepping out on a limb when discussing the subject.

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P.S. Just for your information, the SS as well as the FBI determined the third shot impact point to be directly in front of James Altgens location, which also happens to be some 30-feet farther down Elm St. from the Z312/313 impact.

Personally, I would neither accept nor believe anything which is claimed by anyone on the subject matter.

However, I would research the facts and witness testimonies prior to stepping out on a limb when discussing the subject.

Tom, the original re-enactment by the SS on 11-27-63 led them to conclude the third and final shot was fired when the limo was 260 feet from the sniper's nest, within a few feet of where the WC eventually placed the head shot.

And here is their original conclusion on the shot sequence:

Preliminary Special Dallas Report #1" by Secret Service Inspector Thomas Kelley (CD87, p267). "At the foot of Elm Street, at a point approximately 200 feet east of the Houston Street Triple Underpass, on the approach to the Stemmons Freeway, President Kennedy, who was seated on on the right rear seat, was shot. Immediately thereafter Governor Connally, who was seated on the right jump seat, was shot once. The President was then shot the second time."

So the question you ought to be asking is why both the SS and FBI, in December 63, briefly pretended the last shot was further from the sniper's nest than they'd originally concluded. I think they were trying to fool the WC. I know you'd like to believe they'd concluded there was a shot after the head shot. But there is ZERO support for this. Every SS and FBI description of the shooting presents the head shot as the last shot.

If you can find one in which they claimed the last shot hit Connally, as you claim, I'd be most interested.

Edited by Pat Speer
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