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George H. W. Bush and Assassination of JFK


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William, yes I am aware of it - I'm pretty much aware of all the dirt that has been published on the Bush family and especially George Sr. - after October Surprise, Iran Contra and Mena, well enough of that.

My question is a lot simpler than that - I don't care who publishes what in a magazine article or on the internet, what I'm interested in is primary source information (where the document was found and how it was corroborated in the first place). In particular I need to know where the second document you have posted on your WEB site originated and how you vetted it to ensure that it is a real document. Actually I'd like to know the same about the first document on Bush as well but that is more curiosity.

Once I know where the second document came from it will help me find out why it does not appear to be in the NARA collection and may also help me understand other things as well - as why Hoover would identify FBI informants in other agencies by name, a very strange thing for him to do.

If the document can be proven to be real and not a one that has been manipulated, especially in the last paragraph, it will also raise a lot of interesting questions about involvement with a Pro-Castro group.

If you can't provide the source or verify the second document that's fine and I'll keep trying to validate it myself.

-- Larry

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Larry,

FWIW the ARRB considered the Hoover memo about Mr. George Bush to be genuine.

Here's a link to part of the ARRB final report:

http://www.fas.org/sgp/advisory/arrb98/part08.htm

About three quarters down the linked page is the following:

4. George Bush

A November 29, 1963, memorandum from FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover to the Director of the Bureau of Intelligence and Research at the Department of State refers to the fact that information on the assassination of President Kennedy was "orally furnished to Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency." At the request of the Review Board, the CIA made a thorough search of its records in an attempt to determine if the "George Bush" referred to in the memorandum might be identical to President and former Director of Central Intelligence George Herbert Walker Bush. That search determined that the CIA had no association with George Herbert Walker Bush during the time frame referenced in the document.

The records that the Review Board examined showed that the only other "George Bush" serving in the CIA in 1963 was a junior analyst who has repeatedly denied being the "George Bush" referenced in the memorandum. The Review Board staff found one reference to an Army Major General George Bush in the calendars of Director of Central Intelligence Allen Dulles. There was no indication if this General Bush could be the referenced George Bush. The Review Board marked the calendar page as an assassination record.

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Thanks Ron, that's good information.

Larry, I don't know if there is a release number for it, I expect there is, whether from NARA or not. As the article says, it was declasiified and buried in a BIG batch of FBI files:

"Hoover's memo, which was written to the director of the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research, was buried among the 98,755 pages of F.B.I. documents released to the public in 1977 and 1978 as a result of the Freedom of Information Act suits."

On another note, if the document was not genuine, don't you think Bush, the FBI , and or the CIA would have carnked out a challenge to it? Come on!

Ignoring is the better strategy, and so far it seems pretty succesful.

Wim

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William, I'm not sure any of these folks care enough about us or take any document or story that comes up serously enough to argue it one way or the other - now if it was about Johnson it would be different and Valenti would jump all over it.

And as I said it's the second document that interests me much more than the first because appears to put Mr. Bush in the thinck of things in Miami - something which certainly has not come up before.

But in either case if we could figure out how and where they came from it might lead us to something even more interesting. Any way, I'm certainly going to keep my eye out for such items in the FBI collections and anyone that is looking at State Dept documents should as well... we have a good record in finding memos over on that side that have appearently disappeared from other Agencies files.

-- Larry

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I also find this document difficult to believe. I suspect that the last paragraph has been added to a genuine document. Larry has made some good points about why it is unlikely to be genuine. It seems to me a very crude attempt to implicate George Bush. What is very strange is the document suggests that Bush had close contacts with pro-Castro forces. I wonder how he managed that? Bush’s political opinions on the subject were well known in 1963. I would have thought he would have found it impossible to have got close to this group. Even if he did, what does it prove in itself?

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Okay, no one has ever disputed the genuinity of this document, including the FBI, the ARRB, The Nation, the VP office and even Bush himself. Yet now we have to accept it is probably false, just because John and Larry think so. Well sorry, but that is just not good enough for me.

Bush is right in the middle of all the Operation 40 Cubans. He is still friends with Orlando Bosch and Felix Rodriguez. He has released Bosch and Luis Posada Carrilles, both convicted terrrorists and both present on Dealey Plaza. He has also helped get the Novo Sampol brothers off the hook for the Orlando Letelier assassination. But Larry needs documented proof for Bush's CIA and Operation 40 connection in the early sixties. Oh well, I guess that's why this case will never be solved.

By the way, Valenti had no need to jump all over it. It did not attract a whole lot of attention and went by virtually unnoticed. Bush was simply elected President. Jumping all over it would only have attracted that attention. Valenti and Ford had to act on the History Channel, because that HAD attracted attention and did NOT go by unnoticed. Damage control. But the Bush memo hat not even produced damage. Why bother?

Wim

"I guess the public gets the government it deserves"

Rodney Stich, author of Defrauding America

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William, this exchage is probably just wasting space but yes, I do look for need some form of "corroboration" for anything I deal with on this subject - not that I always find it. Corroboration can come in a lot of forms, in the case of the second document you posted (and for some reason I can't seem to get you focused on that one) it could be as simple as showing that Bush was spending time in Miami in 1960-61. It could also be as simple as a statement from the person who originally found the document saying when, where and under what circumstance they found it. We question the chain of evidence all the time when we look at the cover-up, the same has to apply to material we use.

You provided some very interesting new documents on the Kirknewton incident and you know that I didn't just write those off, it was possible to find several types of corroboration for them and they point in some very important directions - but when I talk about those directions now I still have to call it speculation because I don't have the information that is redacted in the basic documents - maybe some day we'll be able to convert it to something solid.

I didn't get involved in this to convince anyone except myself, when I do write something down I go as far as I can in showing everyone what I feel is solid and what is speculation and I think I'm pretty hard on myself that way. I'm equally hard on evaluating what others write and I plan to stay that way. In the end everybody had to be their own jury on this case so your'e free to use the standards you wish and so am I. Which says about all I have to say I suppose.

-- Larry

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  • 1 year later...

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http://www.namebase.org/main2/George-H_2Ew_2E-Bush.html

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Larry, were you really not awre of all this?

http://www.the7thfire.com/bush8b.htm

This FBI document identifying George Bush as a CIA agent in November, 1963 was first published by Joseph McBride in The Nation in July, 1988, just before Bush received the Republican nomination for president. McBride's source observed: "I know [bush] was involved in the Caribbean. I know he was involved in the suppression of things after the Kennedy assassination. There was a very definite worry that some Cuban groups were going to move against Castro and attempt to blame it on the CIA." 20 When pressed for confirmation or denial, Bush's spokesman Stephen Hart commented: "Must be another George Bush." Within a short time the CIA itself would peddle the same damage control line. On July 19, 1988 in the wake of wide public attention to the report published in The Nation, CIA spokeswoman Sharron Basso departed from the normal CIA policy of refusing to confirm or deny reports that any person is or was a CIA employee. CIA spokeswoman Basso told the Associated press that the CIA believed that "the record should be clarified." She said that the FBI document "apparently" referred to a George William Bush who had worked in 1963 on the night shift at CIA headquarters, and that "would have been the appropriate place to have received such an FBI report." According to her account, the George William Bush in question had left the CIA to join the Defense Intelligence Agency in 1964.

For the CIA to volunteer the name of one of its former employees to the press was a shocking violation of traditional methods, which are supposedly designed to keep such names a closely guarded secret. This revelation may have constituted a violation of federal law. But no exertions were too great when it came to damage control for George Bush.

George William Bush had indeed worked for the CIA, the DIA, and the Alexandria, Virginia Department of Public Welfare before joining the Social Security Administration, in whose Arlington, Virginia office he was employed as a claims representative in 1988. George William Bush told The Nation that while at the CIA he was "just a lowly researcher and analyst" who worked with documents and photos and never received interagency briefings. He had never met Forsyth of the FBI or Captain Edwards of the DIA. "So it wasn't me," said George William Bush. 21

Later, George William Bush formalized his denial in a sworn statement to a federal court in Washington, DC. The affidavit acknowledges that while working at CIA headquarters between September 1963 and February 1964, George William Bush was the junior person on a three to four man watch shift which was on duty when Kennedy was shot. But, as George William Bush goes on to say,

I have carefully reviewed the FBI memorandum to the Director, Bureau of Intelligence and Research, Department of State dated November 29, 1963 which mentions a Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency....I do not recognize the contents of the memorandum as information furnished to me orally or otherwise during the time I was at the CIA. In fact, during my time at the CIA. I did not receive any oral communications from any government agency of any nature whatsoever. I did not receive any information relating to the Kennedy assassination during my time at the CIA from the FBI.

Based on the above, it is my conclusion that I am not the Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency referred to in the memorandum. 22

So we are left with the strong suspicion that the "Mr. George Bush of the CIA" referred to by the FBI is our own George Herbert Walker Bush, who, in addition to his possible contact with Lee Harvey Oswald's controller, may thus also join the ranks of the Kennedy assassination cover-up. It makes perfect sense for George Bush to be called in on a matter involving the Cuban community in Miami, since that is a place where George has traditionally had a constituency. George inherited it from his father, Prescott Bush of Jupiter Island, and later passed it on to his own son, Jeb.

I will be the first to admit that providing this link may seem to be somewhat sensationalistic, but after listening to Joan Mellen's three hour interview, in which she asserts (among other things) that Bernardo de Torres and David Atlee Philips were both in Dealey Plaza on Nov.22, as well as James Richards research that to me clearly shows Rip Robertson, I think it is something worth looking at.

http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/bush2.htm

I noticed that the individual circled in red is, (I believe) standing next to the person who might be John Adrian O'Hare but the quality of the image is too fuzzy to be sure. If anyone could do any photo editing of this image to make it sharper may be illuminating. John Dolva?

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I noticed that the individual circled in red is, (I believe) standing next to the person who might be John Adrian O'Hare but the quality of the image is too fuzzy to be sure. If anyone could do any photo editing of this image to make it sharper may be illuminating. John Dolva?

In the photo with the man circled in red, the "O'Hare" figure is standing behind the police officer on the far right. And standing next to the O'Hare figure appears to be his buddy the Robertson lookalike. But was Robertson that short?

bushtsbd2.jpg

He also looks shorter than his friend in this photo with Brennan:

brennan2.jpg

Ron

Edited by Ron Ecker
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The range of graysacale and the pixelation makes a true sharpening difficult. It sems to me that the known GWB face in this instance is more boyish?

Edited by John Dolva
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The range of graysacale and the pixelation makes a true sharpening difficult. It sems to me that the known GWB face in this instance is more boyish?

To both John and Ron, thank you so much for helping my "Paint Shop Pro" skills are negligible at best. By the way does anyone know who shot this photo? Is this a Murray photo? Also I have mentioned this on the JFK Online Seminars section, previously (I think it is still the last post). But at the prospect of being redundant, I think anyone who is intrigued with Dealey Plaza's growing "cast of characters," (so far it appears we have Rip Robertson and John Adrian O'Hare) to take a VERY close look at the entire Robert Hughes film. (The on-line versions are edited or are of very poor quality)

1. In the beginning the motorcade passes the person who COULD BE "E. Howard Hunt," as it makes the turn onto Houston St. (at the corner behind the motorcade as it turns;

2. About 38 seconds into the film, Robert Hughes is standing to the right and behind the Rip Robertson/O'Hare individuals as the crowd walks toward the knoll, then they are seen again in the TSBD Parking lot, to the right of the picket fence, with the trains as a backdrop; there are three other men who seem suspicious as well, one of them walks to the right of the camera, coming towards it then the three of them walk in front of Hughes. I do not recognize them as Dallas Police detectives; they are wearing suits and I believe two, and maybe all three are wearing glasses. I really think it is a worthwhile endeavor. It would be nice if we could upload all of the films on the Groden CD's to the forum, if there are no legal issues involved. I have two of them and they are incredible. Joan Mellen in her radio interview asserts that both Bernardo de Torres and David Atlee Philips were both in Dealey Plaza on November 22. The list appears to be getting larger.

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  • 5 months later...

On pages 43/44 of Fabian Escalante's CIA Covert Operations 1959-1962: The Cuba Project, he claims that in 1960 Richard Nixon recruited an "important group of businessmen headed by George Bush (Snr.) and Jack Crichton, both Texas oilmen, to gather the necessary funds for the operation". He is talking about Operation 40, the group that Warren Hinckle and William Turner described in Deadly Secrets, as the “assassins-for-hire” organization.

Here is some background information on Operation 40. On 11th December, 1959, Colonel J. C. King, chief of CIA's Western Hemisphere Division, sent a confidential memorandum to Allen W. Dulles, the director of the Central Intelligence Agency. King argued that in Cuba there existed a "far-left dictatorship, which if allowed to remain will encourage similar actions against U.S. holdings in other Latin American countries."

As a result of this memorandum Dulles established Operation 40. It obtained this name because originally there were 40 agents involved in the operation. Later this was expanded to 70 agents. The group was presided over by Richard Nixon. Tracy Barnes became operating officer of what was also called the Cuban Task Force. The first meeting chaired by Barnes took place in his office on 18th January, 1960, and was attended by David Atlee Phillips, E. Howard Hunt, Jack Esterline, and Frank Bender.

On 4th March, 1960, La Coubre, a ship flying a Belgian flag, exploded in Havana Bay. It was loaded with arms and ammunition that had been sent to help defend Cuba's revolution from its enemies. The explosion killed 75 people and over 200 were injured. Fabian Escalante, an officer of the Department of State Security (G-2), later claimed that this was the first successful act carried out by Operation 40.

One member, Frank Sturgis, claimed: "this assassination group (Operation 40) would upon orders, naturally, assassinate either members of the military or the political parties of the foreign country that you were going to infiltrate, and if necessary some of your own members who were suspected of being foreign agents... We were concentrating strictly in Cuba at that particular time."

Over the next few years Operation 40 worked closely with several anti-Castro Cuban organizations including Alpha 66. CIA officials and freelance agents such as William Harvey, Porter Goss, Gerry Hemming, E. Howard Hunt, David Morales, Bernard L. Barker, Frank Sturgis, Tosh Plumlee, and William C. Bishop also joined the project. Cuban figures used by the Operation 40 included Antonio Veciana, Luis Posada, Orlando Bosch, Chi Chi Quintero, Roland Masferrer, Eladio del Valle, Guillermo Novo, Carlos Bringuier, Eugenio Martinez, Antonio Cuesta, Hermino Diaz Garcia, Barry Seal, Felix Ismael Rodriguez, Juan Manuel Salvat, Ricardo Morales Navarrete, Isidro Borjas, Virgilio Paz, Jose Dionisio Suarez, Felipe Rivero, Gaspar Jimenez Escobedo, Nazario Sargent, Pedro Luis Diaz Lanz, Jose Basulto, and Paulino Sierra.

If Escante is right about this, George Bush could indeed be involved in the assassination of JFK.

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Two things have puzzled me about George Bush Sr. and the Kennedy assassination. One is that many people suspect him of being involved even if the evidence i have seen is not very impressive. But he has definitely been in a position to know sometheing about the asssassination. So i am surprised that investigators and researchers hasn't questioned him more than they have (I am not sure if he has been questioned at all).

Even if we assume that the George Bush in the FBI memo is "our" George Bush that does not mean he was involved in the assassination. It just shows he knew something or thought he knew something. And the claim from Escalante that Bush helped financing operation 40? Well, Escalante said that happened on the initiative of Richard Nixon, as vice president we must assume. In other words, Kennedy wasn't president yet. If we are to suspect George Bush of anything, we must find evidence of suspicious activities at later stages. And that is not difficult. It is easy to find compromising material about three generations of Bushes, but nothing that ties them directly to the JFK assassination in my opinion. But George Bush may very well have known people involved, that is another thing. As a matter of fact, i would be very surprised if he did not know much about the assassination. The fact that he knew George de Mohrenschild is interesting enough. And as head of the CIA and later president he must have had access to very important sources of information.

But if we assume George Bush knows more than he says about the assassination, can we suspect that he has taken part in cover-ups when he worked for the CIA? That is possible. But all the people involved in cover-ups can't be involved in the assassination. I guess most people in this forum will agree that people like Earl Warren and Gerald Ford have taken part in cover-ups. (Most notably Ford who "moved" Kennedy's back wound in the Warren report). But that does not make them likely suspects.

The most important question about George Bush is not whether he was involved, but what he actually knows. If i investigated the case he would be one of the first people i questioned.

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The most important question about George Bush is not whether he was involved, but what he actually knows. If i investigated the case he would be one of the first people i questioned.

No thanks.

"I don't recollect that."

"That's not something I recall."

"I have no memory of that."

"Read.....my....lips....I don't remember."

That's all you're going to get, IMO.

The most important question, IMO, is how he would have profited - plus what his relationship was to names like Rip Robertson, William Harvey, Tracey Barnes, David Phillips, etc.

- lee

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