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I believe that this image below appears in the book, 'Barry and the Boys'. That is Adler 'Barry' Seal on the left, but can anyone confirm that the guy wearing the hat is New Orleans Mayor Victor Schiro?

James

Victor Hugo Schiro served as Mayor of New Orleans from 1961-1969.

http://specialcollections.tulane.edu/Schiro/Schiro.htm

is it implied that this man was somehow involved in Drug running?

Also note the following:

The Jet Ranger civil mod 206A, powered by a 235kW (317shp) Allison C18A, first flew on January 10 1966. Deliveries of the first production Jet Rangers began late in that same year. (1966)

In the early 1970's production switched to the Model 206B Jet Ranger II with a 300kW (400shp) 250C20 turboshaft, while conversion kits to upgrade earlier As to the new standard were made available.

The third major variant of the JetRanger is the 315kW (420shp) 250C20B powered JetRanger III, with first deliveries commencing in late 1977.

In the Berry and the Boys picture of Seal and implied mayor "Victor Hugo Schiro" of New Orleans is a Jet Ranger Two. (mfg 1972)

How could this be if the picture in question was taken in 1963 or there abouts? And the helicopter was not even in production at that time. Can anyone explain this?

For picture and history of the Ranger go to:

http://www.flymfs.com/bell206.html

Also can someone explain how the Registration N-6284? was issued to this helicopter in the 1960's when FAA record shows it being assigned to a helicopter in the early 70's.

The picture at the night club is said to have been taken a few months before the assassination in 1963 and as I understand the helicopter picture of Seal and the mayor was taken about the same time.

Is this a mistake in research or the publisher/editors? If so, what other mistake can be found in this work?

Anyone care to comment?

In answer to a private email received from two different sources:

"... "I don't quite understand your statement about the Mayor of New Orleans. It does not fit with what you said about the picture not being right,".

...from John Simkin "According to Daniel Hopsicker it is definitely Victor Schiro. (Mayor of New Orleans, 1961-69) He (Hopsicker) thinks that other man is a Teamsters' union boss. ...".

My reply to both of these gentleman's emails:

"... Do you understand the issue about the helicopter?

If I remember right it is said by the author that the new Orleans mayor is standing next to Seal in the helicopter picture and that picture as well as the other at the night club was said to have been taken in 1963.

Regardless of what some think of who all is in that picture (me or Struges) is of no value. I asked, can anyone explain how the helicopter was in a "1963" picture, as stated by the author, when it had not even been in production during that year or the years of the sixties.

If that research dating is wrong then could the date and players of the picture at the club also be wrong? If so then the whole concept and the books conclutions could also be wrong and fall into nothing more than speculations and someones fantasies. Some try to nailed me to the wall on a lot less than this. If I just stutter a little on memory of an event, then I'm all wrong on everything and its shouted to the wind.

And too, could the accusations that the mayor of New Orleans (who is now dead) also be wrong. Your a good researcher with proven works. What do you think? Who is in the picture has no value if all that "factual" information found in that book proves false.

Of course I can see how we can just slid over this issue and put it aside as not meaning anything and continue on with our research using this and other matters found in the work as proven facts for a new generation to accept at face value because some say we must. Now days, because of the inter-net, we can write our own history anyway we want in place of recording it the way it came down or the way it really happened.

Its now time to "divert" draw attention away from this issue and run in other directions. Lets not get to close to this issue for the truth and motive might come foward. Who's wagging whose tail? And you wonder why I say BS a lot these days. ...".

Edited by William Plumlee
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It has been said: "...No book or research however, is without errors that can creep in for many reasons. ..".

That is true, but when the errors are used many years later, and not corrected when pointed out years earlier, but continued to be presented as factual information to a new generation of researchers, then I find no reliability in any of the old or new research, or the publications thereof.

The real truth of a matter cannot be found in such sloppy works. When speculations, wild theories, and rumors are printed as facts then real truth hides behind the print and is lost forever.

Again I ask a few simple questions:

(1) Can anyone tell me what type helicopter and the year it was made?

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...opic=6930&st=15

(2) Can anyone tell me the name of this restaurant in Mexico City and who these people are at the table and the date the picture was taken?

http://specialcollections.tulane.edu/Schiro/Schiro_9.htm

(3) Are there any look-a-likes in this Barry and the Boys cover photo link below to the other photo of the link above?

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...opic=6930&st=15

(5) Who is this person on link below and what year was it taken?

http://specialcollections.tulane.edu/Schiro/Schiro_3.htm

(6) note: The new Orleans mayor must have grown a lot of hair from 1954 until 1963

http://specialcollections.tulane.edu/Schiro/Schiro_2a.htm

(7) Who is standing next to Seal at the helicopter?

(8) Can anyone tell me the N...... registration number and the year it was assigned to this pictured helicopter?

(footnote from previous post on another forum:

"...I believe that this image below (helicopter) appears in the book, 'Barry and the Boys'. That is Adler 'Barry' Seal on the left, but can anyone confirm that the guy wearing the hat is New Orleans Mayor Victor Schiro? ...".

reply to above posting:

"...According to Daniel Hopsicker it is definitely Victor Schiro. He thinks that other man is a Teamsters' union boss. ...".

Would anyone care to comment on the above links as to the Mayor of New Oleans being with a alleged drug runner?

What is implied here? Was the Mayor of New Orleans involved with drugs?

Was this some kind of payoff with a Union boss and Seal?

Was it some kind of kick-back or shady deal involving the Mayor of New Orlaens and a Union president?

What is really being said in this book?

All three of these gentlemen are now dead, and as we know "deadmen tell no tales".

I believe these are all valid questions that any researcher worth his salt should ask. As I have said "take me out of the equation",.... "forget my story"... "classifie it as BS", However these questions I ask remain valid questions. They should be answered and explained for this new generation of research.

Over the years, very good research and the truth therof, has been sidelined and stoped by much less that this. Is this published written work " wild speculation" based on rumor? Or is it "truth"?

I believe if these questions are answered honest, then we will know the real truth of why this book was published and the motives thereoff will become clear.

You can deal with me and attack my story afterwards, if you like. But first answer my simple questions. I do not think that is to much to ask from the research community as a whole. Do you?

This post has been edited by William Plumlee: Today, 07:03 PM

Edited by William Plumlee
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It has been said: "...No book or research however, is without errors that can creep in for many reasons. ..".

That is true, but when the errors are used many years later, and not corrected when pointed out years earlier, but continued to be presented as factual information to a new generation of researchers, then I find no reliability in any of the old or new research, or the publications thereof.

The real truth of a matter cannot be found in such sloppy works. When speculations, wild theories, and rumors are printed as facts then real truth hides behind the print and is lost forever.

Again I ask a few simple questions:

(1) Can anyone tell me what type helicopter and the year it was made?

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...opic=6930&st=15

(2) Can anyone tell me the name of this restaurant in Mexico City and who these people are at the table and the date the picture was taken?

http://specialcollections.tulane.edu/Schiro/Schiro_9.htm

(3) Are there any look-a-likes in this Barry and the Boys cover photo link below to the other photo of the link above?

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...opic=6930&st=15

(5) Who is this person on link below and what year was it taken?

http://specialcollections.tulane.edu/Schiro/Schiro_3.htm

(6) note: The new Orleans mayor must have grown a lot of hair from 1954 until 1963

http://specialcollections.tulane.edu/Schiro/Schiro_2a.htm

(7) Who is standing next to Seal at the helicopter?

(8) Can anyone tell me the N...... registration number and the year it was assigned to this pictured helicopter?

(footnote from previous post on another forum:

"...I believe that this image below (helicopter) appears in the book, 'Barry and the Boys'. That is Adler 'Barry' Seal on the left, but can anyone confirm that the guy wearing the hat is New Orleans Mayor Victor Schiro? ...".

reply to above posting:

"...According to Daniel Hopsicker it is definitely Victor Schiro. He thinks that other man is a Teamsters' union boss. ...".

Would anyone care to comment on the above links as to the Mayor of New Oleans being with a alleged drug runner?

What is implied here? Was the Mayor of New Orleans involved with drugs?

Was this some kind of payoff with a Union boss and Seal?

Was it some kind of kick-back or shady deal involving the Mayor of New Orlaens and a Union president?

What is really being said in this book?

All three of these gentlemen are now dead, and as we know "deadmen tell no tales".

I believe these are all valid questions that any researcher worth his salt should ask. As I have said "take me out of the equation",.... "forget my story"... "classifie it as BS", However these questions I ask remain valid questions. They should be answered and explained for this new generation of research.

Over the years, very good research and the truth therof, has been sidelined and stoped by much less that this. Is this published written work " wild speculation" based on rumor? Or is it "truth"?

I believe if these questions are answered honest, then we will know the real truth of why this book was published and the motives thereoff will become clear.

You can deal with me and attack my story afterwards, if you like. But first answer my simple questions. I do not think that is to much to ask from the research community as a whole. Do you?

This post has been edited by William Plumlee: Today, 07:03 PM

from Simkin quote earlier post:

"... In many ways this story is more disgraceful than the assassination of JFK. How has it remained "secret history"? Despite the efforts of people like Peter Dale Scott, Daniel Hopsicker, Robert Parry, Garry Webb, Alfred McCoy, etc. this story has not entered the American consciousness. One of the reasons is that the Democrats have been reluctant to make anything of the story. The reason for that is that they are implicated in this scandal via Bill Clinton. As a result, a deal has been done, and it remains "secret history". Come on America, wake up. ...".

TO Date questions from above postings concerning the 1963 helicopter and mattetrs have been side steped and not addressed and the thread gone dead.

Can anyone prove the research in the book valid? Anyone care to comment or commit?

Edited by William Plumlee
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  • 2 years later...

Interesting email from someone trying to make a documentary on Barry Seal:

I have been battling the 14th District Court in Lake Charles, Louisiana for the better part of a week; the records division there claims that the entire Barry Seal file has been...well...sealed. The only way, according to them, to access the crime scene photographs would be to draft a proposed order and have the district judge sign off on it.

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Interesting email from someone trying to make a documentary on Barry Seal:

I have been battling the 14th District Court in Lake Charles, Louisiana for the better part of a week; the records division there claims that the entire Barry Seal file has been...well...sealed. The only way, according to them, to access the crime scene photographs would be to draft a proposed order and have the district judge sign off on it.

I received an email today asking about any information I had on Seal. I have a lot of information and it was given to law enforcement as well as the Senate of the United States years ago. (and too, to this Forum) The Senate classified that information as well as the maps, pilots names and their activities. (Senator John Kerry's close door testimony and staff interviews; August 1990 and May 1992)

All of that information including flight plans, dates, refueling areas and coded fly-ways were classified top secret and sealed by the Senate and the courts. Neil Matthews of the San Diego Reader wrote a story, "I Ran Drugs for Uncle Sam" in April of 1991. Within that article were details along with a map of ALL the staging areas, coded fly ways, and cartel members associated with Seal. This was BEFORE the Iran/Contra affair and the Savings and loan scandals of the early 90's. Senator Gary Hart also received detailed information and copies of the maps, flight plans, and flyways of which he turned over to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, of which "no action was taken". That letter from Senator Gary Hart was posted on this forum, as well as the Matthews article but received no respond or interest (2006) as well as the article of Neil Matthews. Later, the article was taken off the inter-net as it was posted my others and, it was said, concerned matters of National Security. I was latter contacted by Federal officials and told I had violated national Security matters by talking to the media concerning "ongoing investigations of interest to the United States Government". It was said "if I continued doing so I would go to Federal lock-up". I posted on this forum the next day, concerning the Seal/Plumlee information... again no interest and no support.

I only post now because the 2004-06 postings were never responded to concerning Seal and all the factual background and documented information supplied. Researchers have it all wrong about Seal and the 'Mexico CIA Thing". It seems to me if you do not support someones theories, which are void of facts, then you must be taken out as a creditable person. In this case the facts and the maps and the details spoke for themselves and they were released to the public (by Plumlee) while the activities and information was classified a top secret government operation. The names and dates and ID numbers, pilots, locations ect, had never been made public in any research or books.... and too, it WAS all classified and remains so to date.

I do hope that the new Administration will look into the death of Beery Seal, Kiki Camaranda, Col James Sabow, Scott Wheeler, Gary Webb, and others of this time frame and their associations with secret operations concerning America's War on Drugs.

It is a FACT, many of these boys go back before JFK and were associated with Military Intell and the Pentagon during the 50's 60's, 70's and 80's. I have only posted because there is new blood on the steps of the White House, and I feel in time justice for thes boys who paid the price will be served.

I leave you in Peace. Tosh

Edited by William Plumlee
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Interesting email from someone trying to make a documentary on Barry Seal:

I have been battling the 14th District Court in Lake Charles, Louisiana for the better part of a week; the records division there claims that the entire Barry Seal file has been...well...sealed. The only way, according to them, to access the crime scene photographs would be to draft a proposed order and have the district judge sign off on it.

I received an email today asking about any information I had on Seal. I have a lot of information and it was given to law enforcement as well as the Senate of the United States years ago. (and too, to this Forum) The Senate classified that information as well as the maps, pilots names and their activities. (Senator John Kerry's close door testimony and staff interviews; August 1990 and May 1992)

All of that information including flight plans, dates, refueling areas and coded fly-ways were classified top secret and sealed by the Senate and the courts. Neil Matthews of the San Diego Reader wrote a story, "I Ran Drugs for Uncle Sam" in April of 1991. Within that article were details along with a map of ALL the staging areas, coded fly ways, and cartel members associated with Seal. This was BEFORE the Iran/Contra affair and the Savings and loan scandals of the early 90's. Senator Gary Hart also received detailed information and copies of the maps, flight plans, and flyways of which he turned over to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, of which "no action was taken". That letter from Senator Gary Hart was posted on this forum, as well as the Matthews article but received no respond or interest (2006) as well as the article of Neil Matthews. Later, the article was taken off the inter-net as it was posted my others and, it was said, concerned matters of National Security. I was latter contacted by Federal officials and told I had violated national Security matters by talking to the media concerning "ongoing investigations of interest to the United States Government". It was said "if I continued doing so I would go to Federal lock-up". I posted on this forum the next day, concerning the Seal/Plumlee information... again no interest and no support.

I only post now because the 2004-06 postings were never responded to concerning Seal and all the factual background and documented information supplied. Researchers have it all wrong about Seal and the 'Mexico CIA Thing". It seems to me if you do not support someones theories, which are void of facts, then you must be taken out as a creditable person. In this case the facts and the maps and the details spoke for themselves and they were released to the public (by Plumlee) while the activities and information was classified a top secret government operation. The names and dates and ID numbers, pilots, locations ect, had never been made public in any research or books.... and too, it WAS all classified and remains so to date.

I do hope that the new Administration will look into the death of Beery Seal, Kiki Camaranda, Col James Sabow, Scott Wheeler, Gary Webb, and others of this time frame and their associations with secret operations concerning America's War on Drugs.

It is a FACT, many of these boys go back before JFK and were associated with Military Intell and the Pentagon during the 50's 60's, 70's and 80's. I have only posted because there is new blood on the steps of the White House, and I feel in time justice for thes boys who paid the price will be served.

I leave you in Peace. Tosh

Edited by William Plumlee
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Interesting email from someone trying to make a documentary on Barry Seal:

I have been battling the 14th District Court in Lake Charles, Louisiana for the better part of a week; the records division there claims that the entire Barry Seal file has been...well...sealed. The only way, according to them, to access the crime scene photographs would be to draft a proposed order and have the district judge sign off on it.

I received an email today asking about any information I had on Seal. I have a lot of information and it was given to law enforcement as well as the Senate of the United States years ago. (and too, to this Forum) The Senate classified that information as well as the maps, pilots names and their activities. (Senator John Kerry's close door testimony and staff interviews; August 1990 and May 1992)

All of that information including flight plans, dates, refueling areas and coded fly-ways were classified top secret and sealed by the Senate and the courts. Neil Matthews of the San Diego Reader wrote a story, "I Ran Drugs for Uncle Sam" in April of 1991. Within that article were details along with a map of ALL the staging areas, coded fly ways, and cartel members associated with Seal. This was BEFORE the Iran/Contra affair and the Savings and loan scandals of the early 90's. Senator Gary Hart also received detailed information and copies of the maps, flight plans, and flyways of which he turned over to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, of which "no action was taken". That letter from Senator Gary Hart was posted on this forum, as well as the Matthews article but received no respond or interest (2006) as well as the article of Neil Matthews. Later, the article was taken off the inter-net as it was posted my others and, it was said, concerned matters of National Security. I was latter contacted by Federal officials and told I had violated national Security matters by talking to the media concerning "ongoing investigations of interest to the United States Government". It was said "if I continued doing so I would go to Federal lock-up". I posted on this forum the next day, concerning the Seal/Plumlee information... again no interest and no support.

I only post now because the 2004-06 postings were never responded to concerning Seal and all the factual background and documented information supplied. Researchers have it all wrong about Seal and the 'Mexico CIA Thing". It seems to me if you do not support someones theories, which are void of facts, then you must be taken out as a creditable person. In this case the facts and the maps and the details spoke for themselves and they were released to the public (by Plumlee) while the activities and information was classified a top secret government operation. The names and dates and ID numbers, pilots, locations ect, had never been made public in any research or books.... and too, it WAS all classified and remains so to date.

I do hope that the new Administration will look into the death of Beery Seal, Kiki Camaranda, Col James Sabow, Scott Wheeler, Gary Webb, and others of this time frame and their associations with secret operations concerning America's War on Drugs.

It is a FACT, many of these boys go back before JFK and were associated with Military Intell and the Pentagon during the 50's 60's, 70's and 80's. I have only posted because there is new blood on the steps of the White House, and I feel in time justice for thes boys who paid the price will be served.

I leave you in Peace. Tosh

P.S. I Ran Guns for Uncle Sam ( www.phoenixarchives.com/express/1991/0591/13-06.pdf ) you might have to cut and paste these links into Google

( sengaryhart.pdf )

[PDF] hart3File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML

Gary Hart. 9AVIS GRAHAM S. STUB BS. SUITE A700. 370 ÍCVCNTtENTH STREE-. »OST O' riCE BOX iBS. DENVER, COlOB»00 BOSOi-C'BS. February 14, 1991 ... click on HART 3

The map and the orginal article has been PURGED from the internet and only one place is left where it can be found (copied from the orginal article) ... they ??? missed the Phoenix Journal recap copy of the article and as of today it was still on the web at the above website. The Map has been classified and is not available to the best of my knowledge: The orginal article can not be found... I find this strange in itself in view of all the other information out there that is allowed to stay on the internet... Why has Neal Matthews article been taken off?... and too... you can't get a copy anymore from the San Diego reader either......I was told the FBI ask them to hold the article and notifie them if anyone who wanted a copy...this was some years ago

GOOGLE SEARCH: (note: The Phoenix Jounal article of "I Ran Drugs..., is not listed. however cut and paste the above link into Google and it will come up... The article is hard to find for some reason...............

Web Results 1 - 10 of about 158,000 for I Ran Drugs for Uncle Sam. (0.34 seconds)

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Edited by William Plumlee
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barry jones. costarica 1975, contras, SOF, MSC, SDS in sixties, Where now?

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