Suite 8F Group

[John Simkin]

In Barr McClellan’s book Blood, Money & Power he points out that Fred Korth served as attorney in Marguerite Oswald’s divorce case, representing the husband. It is probably only a coincidence but it does give us a Oswald link to the Suite 8F Group.

Korth was forced to resign over the TFX scandal. It was always important for the Suite 8F Group to have their man as Secretary of the Navy. Not only did he influence federal contracts for aircraft, ships, etc. he was also responsible for the purchase of oil for the American naval fleet. Look at who held this post between 1933 and 1963. Anderson, Connally and Korth were all part of the Suite 8F Group. Does anyone know if any others fell into this category?

Charles F. Adams..........................5 Mar 1929 - 4 Mar 1933

Claude A. Swanson...................... 4 Mar 1933 - 7 Jul 1939

Charles Edison...............................2 Jan 1940 - 24 Jun 1940

Frank Knox...................................11 Jul 1940 - 28 Apr 1944

James Forrestal............................. 19 May 1944 - 17 Sep 1947

John L. Sullivan..............................18 Sep 1947 - 24 May 1949

Francis P. Matthews...................... 25 May 1949 - 31 Jul 1951

Dan A. Kimball..............................31 Jul 1951 - 20 Jan 1953

Robert B. Anderson.......................4 Feb 1953 - 3 Mar 1954

Charles S. Thomas........................ 3 May 1954 - 1 Apr 1957

Thomas S. Gates........................... 1 Apr 1957 - 8 Jun 1959

William B.Franke............................8 Jun 1959 - 19 Jan 1961

John B. Connally, Jr....................... 25 Jan 1961 - 20 Dec 1961

Fred Korth.....................................4 Jan 1962 - 1 Nov 1963

Paul H. Nitze................................. 29 Nov 1963 - 30 Jun 1967

[James Richards]

John,

Do you know if the James Forrestal mentioned is the same one who was supposedly mixed up with the 'Majestic 12' group?

James

[John Simkin]

Do you know if the James Forrestal mentioned is the same one who was supposedly mixed up with the 'Majestic 12' group?

I don't know. Here is a biography of him (it comes from my section on the Cold War).

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAforrestal.htm

Interestingly he was accused of corruption by Drew Pearson in 1948. Pearson was blamed for Forrestal committing suicide in 1949. I have got a biography of Pearson by Jack Anderson. I will find out more details of this scandal. It might have had something to do with the Suite 8F Group. Pearson was definitely investigating some of this crowd during this period. So was Anderson but he was turned and became a CIA asset instead and helped spread the "Mafia did it" story.

[James Richards]

Hi John,

I have been Googling Forrestal and he does indeed appear to have been involved with the 'MJ12' group.

The link below speaks about his death which includes an extention to UFO's.

FWIW.

http://keyholepublishing.com/Death%20of%20...20Forrestal.htm

James

[Shanet Clark]

James in Australia-best.... I tried to start a thread recently on defence secretary Forrestal. Thanks for the link, will digest and respond.

{{The Audie Murphy material is good, isn't it? Curry material.}}

Forrestal was in the realm of ANDERSON, LUCIEN CLAY, ROBERT LOVETT and a few others, HARRY HOPKINS, MARSHALL CARTER, who initiated the 1947 NSC ie COLD WAR, and UNCONSTITUTIONAL US intelligence policy guidelines. Men at the top who gazed down on Presidents....

The Pentagon building and the DEFENSE policies followed NSC 1947 and I believe that security clearances and "Incapacity" were invoked in the rationalization of the coup detat relative to the covert sinals intelligence and photo file on JFK. This was acted on as a plausibly deniable executive action with joint agency paramilitary sponsorship sanction and sanitization, and that the Twenty-fifth amendment was a rationale and ex post facto legitimization effort on the part of the witting parties in power circa 1964-1967 when the amendment passed, i.e., CLARENCE DOUGLASS DILLON, MAXWELL TAYLOR and LYNDON JOHNSON. These suite *F people confirm this angle, I believe...;. Shanet (still online)

[James Richards]

Hi Shanet,

I found this document (annex C) below on-line and I'm still of two minds whether or not it is genuine.

Interesting things to look at include the handwritten note in the top left hand corner which reads, "Put in Angelton's Yellow Files" and paragraph 11 which has the curious opinion that Forrestal's death was "deemed necessary and regrettable".

I would be very interested in your opinion on this.

http://209.132.68.98/pdf/annexc_fragment.pdf

James

[Jack White]

Jim...Operation MAJESTIC had to do with UFOs. Very interesting

document. What is the UFO tie-in?

Jack

[James Richards]

Jim...Operation MAJESTIC had to do with UFOs. Very interesting

document. What is the UFO tie-in?

Jack

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Jack,

From what I can gather, Forrestal was going head to head with Air Force Secretary Symington over defence spending. Forrestal couldn't do what needed to be done and balance the budget. He was aware of the Green Fireball phenomena at the time and that the Air Force had supposedly shot down a UFO. Forrestal wanted to up the ante but was not supported by Truman.

He eventually became paranoid thinking that they were all out to get him. His mental health suffered and so he was murdered as the powers felt he could not be relied upon to maintain the secrets relating to national security.

All speculation of course.

BTW, there is also a Fred Crisman tie in here as well. I'll have a hunt around and see what I can find.

James

Edited January 16, 2005 by James Richards

[James Richards]

For those who are interested, here is the FBI file on Fred Crisman and his connection to a UFO story.

It is (1.4MB).

http://209.132.68.98/pdf/crisman_fbifile.pdf

James

[Richard J. Smith]

Hi John,

I have been Googling Forrestal and he does indeed appear to have been involved with the 'MJ12' group.

The link below speaks about his death which includes an extention to UFO's.

FWIW.

http://keyholepublishing.com/Death%20of%20...20Forrestal.htm

James

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As an aside, the aircraft carrier Forrestal was named after him. It was the Forrestal that Senator John McCain called home as a US Navy aviator, and was also the site of the deck fire in July 1967 in which 134 were killed. The Forrestal is currently a museum in Baltimore's harbor.

RJS

[Ron Ecker]

I remember reading up on the MJ-12 documents years ago. I assume the doc referring to MAJESTIC is related to them. I recall MJ-12 being thoroughly debunked as a hoax, based on signatures, form, anacronisms, etc., the details of which I don't remember. It may have been in the Skeptical Inquirer.

Has the debunking been debunked, or simply ignored by Ufologists?

Ron

[James Richards]

Has the debunking been debunked, or simply ignored by Ufologists? (Ron Ecker)

Hi Ron,

It is all a mass of confusion. There seemed to be some genuine documents discovered in the beginning and then a mass of forgeries swamped the UFO research community.

Not being completely versed on this subject, I don't know which is which. The forgeries have served their purpose though, which is to call into doubt any such document that approaches the subject.

Interesting to note that Gordon Novel entrenched himself into UFO research about this time. He sure seems to know where the action is.

James

[Shanet Clark]

Hi Shanet,

I found this document (annex C) below on-line and I'm still of two minds whether or not it is genuine.

Interesting things to look at include the handwritten note in the top left hand corner which reads, "Put in Angelton's Yellow Files" and paragraph 11 which has the curious opinion that Forrestal's death was "deemed necessary and regrettable".

I would be very interested in your opinion on this.

http://209.132.68.98/pdf/annexc_fragment.pdf

James

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Probably Bunk. Skillful in the general structure and eradication of the Sources, this Project White Hat (handwriting left margin) memo, with its rough c.c. to Jim Angleton, is probably a forgery. The top half is faintly more compelling than the bottom. I thought at first that "Majestic" and "Forrestal" had been re-entered over a genuine black bar, but as I read further I felt the whole thing false.

Good Xerox and Marker fake, but the style and content are too amateurish.

(Plus, the 1947 NSC would have certainly helped the agency in this area)

Source of the Fakery?

Probably retired air force counter-types.

The reason?

To muddy the waters between real Wright Patterson Nevada type files and spooky things that can be destroyed rationally, like the MAJ12.

The MAJ12 docs, to me, show a program to confuse and derogate legitimate primary classified research. I don't think sincere UFO people made them up, I think they were floated out as disinformation\psychological operation program.

These tend to muddy the water concerning unexplained flights and the real classified space and aeronautics USAF materials.

[James Richards]

Thanks, Shanet. Makes sense.

James

[John Simkin]

There is no coincidence that there have been so many false “intelligence” documents that have been produced on UFOs. I am thinking in particular about the so-called FBI memo that linked Dorothy Kilgallen, Marilyn Monroe, JFK and UFOs. I think this is an attempt to discredit JFK researchers. It is noticeable how people like John McAdams often adds the comment about researchers that as well as being conspiracy theorists that they also believe in UFOs. This is a clever tactic, I for one, begin to have doubts about the intelligence of a researcher when it is revealed that they believe in a government conspiracy to hide the existence of UFOs.