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John Kennedy Jr


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If you have soild evidence the conclusion about flight 800 was wrong,perhaps you'd be so good as to start a new thread about it.

I have no solid evidence...therefore I won't start a thread. The dozens of eye witnesses who saw a "missile-type-thing" going up into the sky and exploding the airplane is just what i have read.

++++++++++++++++++++

The Very Odd Behavior Of The Navy.

Unique to this crash was the intense participation of the Navy, which immediately dispatched its best deep salvage vessels to the area, and kicked out the New York Police Department divers, who had legal jurisdiction in the area.

While the beaches of Long Island were swept by soldiers in humvees, the Navy bottom-searched an area of the Atlantic half the size of Rhode Island.

Most unusually, the Navy searched out 20 miles to either side of the known debris field, even though the 747 could not have glided that distance from its altitude of 13,700 MSL even if left intact.

The Navy justified this extensive search by claiming that they could not locate the aircraft flight recorders, the "black boxes", even though numerous private boat owners reported hearing the locator pings on their sonar and fish finders. When the black boxes finally appeared, it was reported that they had been found directly under the Navy's deep salvage vessel.

++++++++ of course Rhode Island ( and Providence Plantations ) is not very big :rolleyes:

Edited by David S. Brownlee
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If you have soild evidence the conclusion about flight 800 was wrong,perhaps you'd be so good as to start a new thread about it.

I have no solid evidence...therefore I won't start a thread. The dozens of eye witnesses who saw a "missile-type-thing" going up into the sky and exploding the airplane is just what i have read.

++++++++++++++++++++

The Very Odd Behavior Of The Navy.

Unique to this crash was the intense participation of the Navy, which immediately dispatched its best deep salvage vessels to the area, and kicked out the New York Police Department divers, who had legal jurisdiction in the area.

Complete BS:

1) as even the map on the page you copied from shows the debris was recovered about 10 miles offshore from East Moriches a town about 50 miles from NYC’s city limits.

search.map.gif

2) State jurisdiction only extends 3 nautical miles from the shore

3) Even if the crash had occurred within 3 miles of the NYC shore the federal government has jurisdiction over all aviation accident sites in the US regardless of location

4) The NYPD only has 30 divers, far insufficient to handle a job like recovering the TWA debris

5) The debris was 100 – 130 feet underwater far below the depths they would be accustomed.

6) The Navy participated in the recovery of debris from flights 990, 111, 587 and I imagine just about every major crash in US waters.

So the author of the page is either:

1) a misinformed moron

2) a lying moron OR

3) a lying misinformed moron

What ever the case maybe I shan’t loose any further time with his undocumented claims.

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Kathleen, yes, according to the SF Bee (it was definitely 1 of 2 papers that literally reported it, while 1 retracted the story) Newspaper, W was indeed at the Grove the weekend of the murder. "sigh..."I really need to locate the source correspondence for that.....

P.S - With all due respect to Skolnick, I take that FBI "report" as disinfo. I think it is best to deal with fundamental facts and go from there.

So W. Bush's presence at Bohemian Grove the weekend John Jr died was just a coincidence? He went there to burn his conscience. Why did one paper print a retraction? Because we're not supposed to know about the Grove and what goes on there?

Kathy C

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Hankey showed me the report sometime ago but sadly I honestly cannot find it and it is driving me crazy. I will say however that there is no reason given for the retraction. I believe, and I am speculating that Hughes threatened the papers, however one paper continued to print the story and did not retract. I am sure that it could have been that W's staff would not want the general public knowing his whereabouts when he is at such an event. Ah, found the link, but it would be even better to have the actual articles from these 2 papers, here is the link:

http://breakfornews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3324

Now the forum is a post Hankey emailed to a member of that forum, that was also the same email I received. After reading that I learned that a retraction would be given on a conditional basis, my apologies for the mistake, but I am definitely going off of memory, but I am glad I found that post. I am not not certain if one of them retracted but I could have sworn one of them did, maybe it was a point John made to me personally in the older email. The main points are simple, according to the articles and that post: 2 papers reported the Bohemian Grove incident on or around the weekend of Jr's crash, Hughes demanded retractions, the papers declined and offered a conditional.

Edited by B. A. Copeland
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Both Bushes have reportedly attended the BG events. Richard Nixon attended and

called it a drunken party by a bunch of fags.

Googling will turn up the strange rituals including a person who is dressed like a

giant Owl God, and the grand finale of human sacrifice where a young virgin is

allegedly stabbed to death by a high priest.

Jack

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Kathleen, yes, according to the SF Bee (it was definitely 1 of 2 papers that literally reported it, while 1 retracted the story) Newspaper, W was indeed at the Grove the weekend of the murder. "sigh..."I really need to locate the source correspondence for that...

Since there is no such newspaper this is obviously untrue.

Edited by Len Colby
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Kathleen, yes, according to the SF Bee (it was definitely 1 of 2 papers that literally reported it, while 1 retracted the story) Newspaper, W was indeed at the Grove the weekend of the murder. "sigh..."I really need to locate the source correspondence for that...

There is a newspaper called The Sacramento Bee, which has (had) a good reputation for investigative journalism.

http://www.sacbee.com/

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Kathleen, yes, according to the SF Bee (it was definitely 1 of 2 papers that literally reported it, while 1 retracted the story) Newspaper, W was indeed at the Grove the weekend of the murder. "sigh..."I really need to locate the source correspondence for that...

There is a newspaper called The Sacramento Bee, which has (had) a good reputation for investigative journalism.

http://www.sacbee.com/

I believe that was when the SacBee was independent. It is now a McClatchy (establishment) paper sadly, same

as my own FWST. No news anymore. Just features and local news.

Jack

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Kathleen, yes, according to the SF Bee (it was definitely 1 of 2 papers that literally reported it, while 1 retracted the story) Newspaper, W was indeed at the Grove the weekend of the murder. "sigh..."I really need to locate the source correspondence for that...

Since there is no such newspaper this is obviously untrue.

Well Mr. Colby, I am not sure that syllogism would hold entirely true lol. Perhaps the paper I got wrong, but it could have been a different paper while the content could actually be true. So then, while it may not have been the SF Bee (since it does not exist) it could have been another paper, while the story of the retraction/Hughes could be indeed true. It was not the SF Bee but the Sacramento Bee and Santa Rosa Press Democrat.

Mr White that is truly very unfortunate :). Thanks Mr. Hogan for the info, much appreciated.

Edited by B. A. Copeland
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Kathleen, yes, according to the SF Bee (it was definitely 1 of 2 papers that literally reported it, while 1 retracted the story) Newspaper, W was indeed at the Grove the weekend of the murder. "sigh..."I really need to locate the source correspondence for that...

Since there is no such newspaper this is obviously untrue.

Well Mr. Colby, I am not sure that syllogism would hold entirely true lol. Perhaps the paper I got wrong, but it could have been a different paper while the content could actually be true. So then, while it may not have been the SF Bee (since it does not exist) it could have been another paper, while the story of the retraction/Hughes could be indeed true. It was not the SF Bee but the Sacramento Bee and Santa Rosa Press Democrat.

Mr White that is truly very unfortunate :ice. Thanks Mr. Hogan for the info, much appreciated.

B.A.,

What I meant is that it was "obviously untrue" that the SF Bee "was definitely 1 of 2 papers that literally reported it". The problem is this seems to be based on you memory of something you were told years ago and your recollections of event surrounding the crash has been shown to be faulty,not only did you say something was "definitely...reported" in a non-existent paper you previously claimed that Raziwell and Blow said things they didn't.

I'm not sure where W was that weekend but he was in Iowa the morning just before the crash.

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?as_q=...mp;as_scoring=a

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Len, what about Sherman Skolnick's researches and his parsing of the NTSB report? Any critique there? You shpuld be able to Google them up easily under Skolnick.

David, it should come as no surprise to you that I'm no fan of Skolnick's. But at least his writings about 9/11 and the Hunt and Boggs crashes put up the pretense of presenting evidence. The only essays of his that I could find about the John-John crash were lunatic rantings that went off on British conspiracies to murder Lincoln, Garfield and McKinley and racist plots to keep Jews off the Supreme Court. Most of his claims are unsourced or attributed to secret government document he inexplicably claims to have gotten hold of. He claims Kennedy who'd never run for elected office in his life and only held mid-level government jobs for a few years at most was killed because he was going to run for president and probably would have won. Either that or he was going to run for Senator even though as even most conspiracy proponents acknowledge he'd already bowed out in favor of Clinton who had the backing of the party establishment. In other word the man went from crank to full blown nutcase. If you want me to comment on anything more substantial he wrote about the crash you'll have to provide the link. :ice

http://www.skolnicksreport.com/goldenboy.html

http://www.skolnicksreport.com/jfkjr.html

Sorry - I could swear that at one time SS had up on his site a copy of the JFK Jr. NTSB report, together with a detailed critique, but it's not there now that I look. Someone may have it up on another site - I distinctly remember that the report itself was divided between two links. Sorry for the wild goose, but I'm mystified as well.

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Kathleen, yes, according to the SF Bee (it was definitely 1 of 2 papers that literally reported it, while 1 retracted the story) Newspaper, W was indeed at the Grove the weekend of the murder. "sigh..."I really need to locate the source correspondence for that...

Since there is no such newspaper this is obviously untrue.

Well Mr. Colby, I am not sure that syllogism would hold entirely true lol. Perhaps the paper I got wrong, but it could have been a different paper while the content could actually be true. So then, while it may not have been the SF Bee (since it does not exist) it could have been another paper, while the story of the retraction/Hughes could be indeed true. It was not the SF Bee but the Sacramento Bee and Santa Rosa Press Democrat.

Mr White that is truly very unfortunate :ice. Thanks Mr. Hogan for the info, much appreciated.

B.A.,

What I meant is that it was "obviously untrue" that the SF Bee "was definitely 1 of 2 papers that literally reported it". The problem is this seems to be based on you memory of something you were told years ago and your recollections of event surrounding the crash has been shown to be faulty,not only did you say something was "definitely...reported" in a non-existent paper you previously claimed that Raziwell and Blow said things they didn't.

I'm not sure where W was that weekend but he was in Iowa the morning just before the crash.

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?as_q=...mp;as_scoring=a

I would not say that most of my recollections are faulty concerning the crash and no, logically something cannot be "definitely reported" in a paper that does not exist, so perhaps I mean in the particular paper that does exist, the story was reported, to which I have shown in a post from another site detailing toe very same info I received. Yes, he was flipping cakes then vanished for the most part, that is/was known. Now you have made a claim that I have claimed something you feel they did not claim, you must be careful because I have the proof for Blow's comments, that is not difficult at all seeing I've read it a million timesl. For proof of Blow's comments? Check out "American Son" pg. 261. I will quote:

"I'm flying to Hyannis Port for my cousin's wedding," he said. I glanced down as John's foot--even the short distance back from the restaurant had tired him--then gave him a skeptical look. "Don't worry," he said. "I'm flying with an instructor."

Now, here is my logical question (in general), where did the claim originate with certainty that John had NO CFI on board that plane if in his own words to Blow he was having one as well as no documented records of anyone seeing he and is company get onto the plane? I mean, what would you rather believe knowing John was one of the most cautious pilots his CFI's had ever known? For this super cautious pilot, they're also saying that no flight plan was filed, which makes no ridiculous sense whatsoever. Filing a flight plan is quite fundamental from what I have learned and something I would believe, moreso than not, that John would have done definitely, as well as have a CFI on board when his wife and sis in law are on board with him and after recently having a cast removed. We have more reason to believe than not, that not only did John possibly filed a flight plan, but that he most likely had a CFI on that plane.

Edited by B. A. Copeland
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Guest Tom Scully
Kathleen, yes, according to the SF Bee (it was definitely 1 of 2 papers that literally reported it, while 1 retracted the story) Newspaper, W was indeed at the Grove the weekend of the murder. "sigh..."I really need to locate the source correspondence for that.....

P.S - With all due respect to Skolnick, I take that FBI "report" as disinfo. I think it is best to deal with fundamental facts and go from there.

So W. Bush's presence at Bohemian Grove the weekend John Jr died was just a coincidence? He went there to burn his conscience. Why did one paper print a retraction? Because we're not supposed to know about the Grove and what goes on there?

Kathy C

Bush's flack told the Sac Bee that Bush did not attend, and they printed it. JFK Jr.'s plane went down on the eve of the

first of the three 1999 Bohemian weekends. I doubt Bush would have shown up there on the first weekend. The middle weekend would be the optimum time for a presidential hopeful to solicit support.

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?um=1&...nge=2000%2C2009

Article: REPORT: CHINA TEST-FIRES NEW LONG-RANGE MISSILE - …

Pay-Per-View - The Columbian - HighBeam Research - Aug 2, 1999

The Bohemian Club's Annual Summer Encampment here came to a close Sunday, ending a two-week retreat for rich and powerful men that President Herbert Hoover ...

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=SET...1&scoring=a

SETTING IT STRAIGHT The Sacramento Bee

- Sacramento Bee - NewsBank - Aug 13, 1999

article on page B4 about the Bohemian Club's Annual Summer Encampment in Sonoma County stated that Texas Gov. George W. Bush was sighted at the retreat. A campaign press secretary said Bush did not attend the gathering.

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I wouldn't place much trust in the NTSB report quoted by Skolnick. Hard to imagine they would ever have written such a report. This case calls out for real investigative journalism, which is a very rare thing for any mainstream media outlet to engage in. Len can ridicule Tom Flocco and other internet web sites that tackled this story, but the fact is no establishment press organ did, or probably ever will report anything but official statements on the JFK, Jr. crash. Thus, those internet sources are all we have.

I tried to do what little I could, but couldn't even get reporter Steve Sbraccia to respond to my followup email asking him to elaborate on what he meant when he told me "something wasn't right" about the JFK, Jr. crash. John Hankey, John Quinn or John DiNardo tried to locate the anonymous Hyannisport Gazette reporter who claimed to have heard or seen something strange in the sky that night, at the time JFK, Jr.'s plane was going down, but was told by the paper that the reporter (who they wouldn't identify) had been "mistaken" and wasn't working there any more. When pressed, he was told the reporter had "gone back to college." It would be nice to at least know the reporter's identity. Sbraccia told me he definitely existed, as he had talked to him, but also didn't remember his name. Also, Coast Guard officer Todd Burgun should be questioned about why he engaged in an extended television interview about the 9:39 p.m. conversation JFK, Jr. had with the FAA, if the conversation never really happened.

The JFK, Jr. case is still ripe for some real investigative journalism, in that it is relatively recent and the trail thus a lot warmer than the JFK and RFK assassinations. This is the only case in recent memory, that I can think of, that has not produced at least one critical book on the subject. Books that can be found in public libraries, for instance, question the official stories of incidents like the OKC Bombing and Waco, but there has been nothing published, to my knowledge, that questions the official findings about what really happened to John F. Kennedy, Jr.

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