Was Lansdale in Dealey Plaza?

[J. Raymond Carroll]

I started this thread so I think I know what it is about. It is about the possible presence of Ed Lansdale in Dealey Plaza on 11/22/1963. You don't even know me, how can you claim to judge the depth of my knowledge?

You are quite correct Greg. I owe you an apology, and I hereby humbly tender same.

But please forgive me if I still harbor the suspicion that your gorgeous wife could easily have found a handsomer guy.

[J. Raymond Carroll]

Mr. Carroll:

What, may I ask is your purpose in the "research community?"

Are you keeping it "pure" perhaps?

Hello Mr. McGuire (Are you any relation to my hero Barry http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWDVl-QgM7M

Thank you for your inquiry.

Like yourself, no doubt, I am here because I am interested in pursuing the inquiry into the murder of John F. Kennedy. My son Sean interrupted me this evening to tell me about JFK, and how he was so different from later US. Presidents. My son summarized his views by saying that modern leaders see WAR as the solution to problems, while JFK saw PEACE as the solution.

As I studied the case, I became more and more convinced that Lee Oswald had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the crime, and so if you see me get in fights on this forum, it is ususally with someone accusing Lee Oswald of something, or -- WORSE YET -- someone accusing his wife.

Best Wishes.

[Peter McGuire]

Great Music and great motivation for giving us your thoughts in this very important matter.

Bottom line is Oswald was used as the fall guy and some very powerful people eliminated a President of the United States and got away with it.

Can you imagine these people?

They kill the sitting President of the United States, pelting him with multiple shots in broad daylight next to his wife, finishing him off with enough force to blow a third of his head away; murder a Dallas Cop in order to frame their patsy, then go on to eliminate yet another young man who was their patsy with a obviously painful gut shut to the liver.

These people were determined, mean,sons of bitches my friend.

Let us all remain determined together, to bring these treasonous bunch of low life scum, to justice, somehow, in this life or, if it must be, in the next.

Edited August 2, 2010 by Peter McGuire

[J. Raymond Carroll]

Great Music and great motivation for giving us your thoughts in this very important matter.

These people were determined, mean,sons of bitches my friend.

They don't come any meaner.

Let us all remain determined together, to bring these treasonous bunch of low life scum, to justice, somehow, in this life or, if it must be, in the next.

While it is no doubt true that just about all the perpetrators are dead now, they can still be called to account AT THE BAR OF HISTORY, and I firmly believe that our grandchildren will learn the truth in school .

(and on the subject of bars, I'll have a Tullamore Dew, straight up, water on the side)

[William Kelly]

Rather than base judgement on the poor quality photo and untenable identification by suspects (Krulak), why not check Lansdale's papers and personal records and find out where he was and what he was doing on 11/22/63.

I remember talking with John Newman, who was once considering writing a bio of Lansdale, and he said he only did some preliminary research, but learned that Lansdale was registered at the same hotel JFK stayed at Ft. Worth, which if true, and can be authenticated, at least puts him in the ball park during the game.

LeMay, while he was temporarily chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff while Taylor was in Vietnam, had assigned Krulak responsibility for the US military support to JMWAVE maritime operations, so he was the boss of Brad Ayers, transfterred from Ranger training to JMWAVE, and for US Navy air support for the CIA mothership Rex and their officially approved attacks against Cuba from the USA.

So Krulak might have known more about the JMWAVE and Dealey Plaza operation than Lansdale.

BK

[Dawn Meredith]

I knew Fletcher Prouty very well. He did not say "things" in order to draw attention to himself. He did not "make things up" for the hell of it! Why would he? What possible motivation could he have had to do such a thing? General Victor Krulak had NO reason whatsoever to identify Lansdale in Dealey Plaza! NONE...unless it was true. My close friend, Gerry Patrick Hemming (no matter what you think of him) didn't want to believe that Krulak identified Lansdale either, but once he saw the proof, even HEMMING conceded the point.

The idiotic claim that "facial features" are the ONLY definitive determinant in photo-identification is absurd. I can recognize, from a distance, MANY people THAT I KNOW INTIMATELY--and from "behind" without a facial view. I would also gain a very marked advantage if I had the luxury of scrutinizing such in a STILL PHOTO! Both Prouty and Krulak were afforded such an opportunity.

Thanks Greg, I was about to write something to this effect but you have done so. I daresay that most of the people I know well I could recognize from behind. I found Prouty's id compelling when I first read it, while looking at the picture. Krulak's id just makes the case for it being Lansdale all that stronger.

Dawn

Nice to See Jim DiEugenio here. He will make mincemeat of many a fool.

[Ron Ecker]

To those who agree with Prouty's and Krulak's ID of Lansdale in the photo, I wonder if they would also agree that Krulak's question to Prouty, "What in the world was he doing there?", has to be one of the dumbest questions ever asked by mortals.

If people like Prouty and Krulak were that naive, no wonder the conspirators got away with it.

[Greg Burnham]

I started this thread so I think I know what it is about. It is about the possible presence of Ed Lansdale in Dealey Plaza on 11/22/1963. You don't even know me, how can you claim to judge the depth of my knowledge?

You are quite correct Greg. I owe you an apology, and I hereby humbly tender same.

But please forgive me if I still harbor the suspicion that your gorgeous wife could easily have found a handsomer guy.

About the first thing, apology accepted. And about the second, you are no doubt quite right. My wonderful wife could have done much better than me. I am truly grateful that she will have me at all...

[Greg Burnham]

To those who agree with Prouty's and Krulak's ID of Lansdale in the photo, I wonder if they would also agree that Krulak's question to Prouty, "What in the world was he doing there?", has to be one of the dumbest questions ever asked by mortals.

If people like Prouty and Krulak were that naive, no wonder the conspirators got away with it.

Ron,

Obviously Fletch wasn't naive about it else he wouldn't have written about it publically. However, publically claiming "knowledge of what Lansdale was doing there" is not only an unprovable claim, but it is tantamount to an accusation for which there is no substantiation. Additionally, truth be told, Prouty didn't know--he surmised, inferred, drew a logical conclusion, but didn't "know" for sure. As for Krulak's comment, I think it is more telling than it reads. I didn't take it as literally as you did. I took it more as a "question that begs no answer" because Krulak knew that Prouty almost necessarily understood what Lansdale's presence there would mean. They both knew exactly what Lansdale's job had entailed for decades. So, I took the question: "What was he doing there?" to really suggest, "Are you thinking what I'm thinking?" [my emphasis]

Fletch had no problem, when at liberty to do so, to reveal the truth. Most people don't realize that he was the person who "blew the cover" of CIA agent, Alexander Butterfield, who was working in the White House, during Watergate. Butterfield had apparently had a lot to do with the secret taping system that had probably illegally recorded conversations that the agency could potentially use to blackmail Nixon et al, if they survived Watergate. Presumably even Nixon, Haldeman, Erlichman, nor Dean knew that the agency had planted an agent in the White House. E Howard Hunt knew though.

Prouty had some unrelated business and was directed to meet with E Howard Hunt. In that meeting he casually told Prouty that "Butterfield" was their [CIA's] man in the White House. Prouty contacted Daniel Shore and went on the air to expose Butterfield. I have the audio (video?) clip here somewhere. So, even though it is illegal to blow a CIA agent's cover, it changes the rules of engagement if they are operating domestically and spying on the president. Since the Patriot Act, that might have changed. But, that's another story...

Edited August 4, 2010 by Greg Burnham

[J. Raymond Carroll]

About the first thing, apology accepted. And about the second, you are no doubt quite right. My wonderful wife could have done much better than me. I am truly grateful that she will have me at all...

Thank you Greg for the gracious reply.

I was way out of line in my earlier comment, and it shows you are a big man to forgive me.

On deeper reflection, your lovely wife probably did pretty well, all things considered.

Edited August 2, 2010 by J. Raymond Carroll

[Greg Burnham]

About the first thing, apology accepted. And about the second, you are no doubt quite right. My wonderful wife could have done much better than me. I am truly grateful that she will have me at all...

Thank you Greg for the gracious reply.

I was way out of line in my earlier comment, and it shows you are a big man to forgive me.

On deeper reflection, your lovely wife probably did pretty well, all things considered.

Thank you as well, Sir. It is important, IMHO, for all of us to attempt (as best we can) to give each other the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. In so much as I failed to treat you that way, my apologies.

[Greg Burnham]

I knew Fletcher Prouty very well. He did not say "things" in order to draw attention to himself. He did not "make things up" for the hell of it! Why would he? What possible motivation could he have had to do such a thing? General Victor Krulak had NO reason whatsoever to identify Lansdale in Dealey Plaza! NONE...unless it was true. My close friend, Gerry Patrick Hemming (no matter what you think of him) didn't want to believe that Krulak identified Lansdale either, but once he saw the proof, even HEMMING conceded the point.

The idiotic claim that "facial features" are the ONLY definitive determinant in photo-identification is absurd. I can recognize, from a distance, MANY people THAT I KNOW INTIMATELY--and from "behind" without a facial view. I would also gain a very marked advantage if I had the luxury of scrutinizing such in a STILL PHOTO! Both Prouty and Krulak were afforded such an opportunity.

Thanks Greg, I was about to write something to this effect but you have done so. I daresay that most of the people I know well I could recognize from behind. I found Prouty's id compelling when I first read it, while looking at the picture. Krulak's id just makes the case for it being Lansdale all that stronger.

Dawn

Nice to See Jim DiEugenio here. He will make mincemeat of many a fool.

Thanks Dawn. Perhaps Jim and I can take turns? I had first crack at McAdams 10 years ago, Jim had second crack, perhaps it's my turn again?

[J. Raymond Carroll]

Thank you as well, Sir. It is important, IMHO, for all of us to attempt (as best we can) to give each other the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. In so much as I failed to treat you that way, my apologies.

It is I who am in your debt Sir, so do not worry.

If you ever need a bed in New York, I do hope you will call on me. (And be sure to bring your lovely wife)

[Greg Burnham]

Thank you as well, Sir. It is important, IMHO, for all of us to attempt (as best we can) to give each other the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. In so much as I failed to treat you that way, my apologies.

It is I who am in your debt Sir, so do not worry.

If you ever need a bed in New York, I do hope you will call on me. (And be sure to bring your lovely wife)

I feel like I'm in an American Express Commercial! "My wife...I never leave home without her!"

[Peter McGuire]

(and on the subject of bars, I'll have a Tullamore Dew, straight up, water on the side)

I hope your drink was enjoyable Mr. Carroll.

I am not related to Barry McGuire, or any famous McGuire, for that matter, but I listened to the song you posted - then YouTube gave me this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH4-tOqLH94

I was a boy when the movie "The Green Berets" came out and remember the road show that came to our town promoting the Vietnam War.

The postmaster of our town and WW2 veteran, who also was my uncle had a three sons in the Army - one who was CIA, the other Green Beret and one who ended up on the cover of Life Magazine as he ran for his life at Kaison during Tet, had arranged for the Green Berets to come to our little town. The day ended with a fly-over!

Funny story came out of these men being in our town that day. It seems that the Green Berets that came to our small town of under a thousand people got a little thirsty.

So they "jogged" as we civies would say to one of the nearby towns to have some beers. That nearby town was some TEN MILES away!

That had to be sometime in the morning then, and I have no doubt they did show up for their afternoon duty which was promotion of the Vietnam War - kind of like as I recall what is in the movie "The Green Berets"

The singer of "The Ballad of the Green Beret" is no Barry McGuire

But this Barry is funny to listen to nevertheless.

They really promoted that war.

Chill out with an acoustic version of REM's "Everybody Hurts." This is an awsome performance in my opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r_ubcUd-gE&feature=related

The Coors "Plugged"

Edited August 5, 2010 by Peter McGuire