Tim Gratz Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 By golly, Pat's right, there was no conspiracy but the goverrnment faked the evidence just to make us think so! Now THAT would be the biggest conspiracy of all if anyone could come up with a motive for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 By golly, Pat's right, there was no conspiracy but the goverrnment faked the evidence just to make us think so! Now THAT would be the biggest conspiracy of all if anyone could come up with a motive for it! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually, one of the early CTs, Vince Salandria, came to the conclusion that all the crappy evidence and bogus drawings were designed to let the educated liberals of America KNOW there had been a conspiracy. To his thinking, the evil powers that be WANTED the left to know there'd been a coup, in order to show them how helpless they were and break their spirits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Forman Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 ce350 in a negative view, with enlarged and enhanced insets of areas of tinting, coupled with a low quality effort to demonstrate a trajectory for a shot from the 2nd floor window, penetrating the windshield from the rear, and ending up striking the curb on Main, unjacketed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Crowe Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 Actually, the WC DID say the first shot would be the best, and believed that the first shot was indeed the single-bullet shot. The problem I have with that is, it isnt the most accurate shot, the head shot/ kill shot was the most accurate..... The HSCA ruled then that Oswald must have accomplished this shot through "point-aiming," meaning pulling the trigger while aiming in a general direction without spotting the target in the site.This is equally idiotic. What are the chances of hitting a moving target under such circumstances? Now this is the first time I have heard of "point shooting" being used in the assassination LOL...This is worse then stationary targets being fired at, at a flat trajectory..Point shooting is good for pistols/handguns within 7 yards, or full auto fire in the direction of the enemy aka spray and pray...This isnt the movies where you can just look through a scope and pull the trigger, one must control breathing, stress makes the heart beat faster which needs to be controled to steady the rifle and oneself. The basics are three long breaths, letting the third breath go half way out and hold, gently pulling back the trigger until it breaks, all this while panning/leading your target... What they want us to believe is the first shot was the most accurate which is false, second the last two shots were hurried shots and one of those were the kill shot, the head shot being the most accurate. Military snipers are trained to "area shoot" meaning a man's torso, why because it gives you a larger target to shoot at with a much higher succes rate. Police snipers are taught to precision shoot, lots of head shots, to eliminate the target as quickly as possible incase there is a hostage situation, most of there shooting is done within 100 yards. Where is military snipers shooting's can go 1000 yards and beyond. Now you ask what are the chances of point shooting and naking those shots Oswald was suppose to have made, that would be like everyone on this forum winning the lottery LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Richards Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 Hey Ryan, I am really curious about the missed shot. First question is, how could someone with rifle experience actually miss everything? If it did come from the Dal-Tex at a low trajectory, that is a very big miss. If it came from a higher floor, it is a massive miss, almost beyond belief. Could the strike on the curb which nicked Tague in reality have been a fragment from hitting something else first? Is that realistic? Is it possible that two teams were present in the Dal-Tex? One high, one low? At the end of the day, I am having a hard time getting my head around a missed shot. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted April 22, 2005 Author Share Posted April 22, 2005 (edited) Hi Lee. This shot had to have been fired from a low trajectory, striking the chrome trim and pushing the trim upward. Possibly, fragements from this strike cracked the windscreen,and some could have skipped over top of the front of the car or may have gone hrough the windscren towards the Tague position. Edited April 23, 2005 by Robin Unger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Crowe Posted April 22, 2005 Share Posted April 22, 2005 Hi James, Good questions... am really curious about the missed shot. First question is, how could someone with rifle experience actually miss everything? I have always believed that it wasnt the best shooters in the world (military snipers) firing that day.. Buck fever is a horrible thing to get while shooting, imagine the stress factor that shooters were going through while looking at the president through there scopes or sights, with that its only human for one to be thinking about there escape while still going into there shooting routine... Now for missing the entire limo, to me says somebody "jumped the gun" meaning somebody jerked the trigger in a nervous state, I see this alot with new shooters due to the fact they are scared of the gun or recoil and anticipate the recoil and miss there target that is only 10 yards in front of them and actually hit the dirt in front of a target while shooting pistol/handguns...This is in a controled enviorment. Im not saying that the shooters just flat out sucked or were scared of the recoil or rifle,If this is the case then it was more like they were scared of what they were about to do, and im sure in the back of there mind were scared if they tried to back out after already being set up to do the shooting....afraid of being killed themselves for not following through, and what they knew.....ALOT OF STRESS.. Could the strike on the curb which nicked Tague in reality have been a fragment from hitting something else first? Is that realistic? This is realistic, it could be a deflection off of some hard target, or glanced off a target, or it could be a piece of the jacket (fragment) from the round itself, the Tague incident I feel is something we will never get to the bottom of unless the round or piece of jacket (fragment) could be found... Is it possible that two teams were present in the Dal-Tex? One high, one low? IMHO Anything could have been possible except the TSBD and the LN The key to me is triangle cross fire, or ambush, this will mean no escape for the president as the limo hase no where to go except right into it, this is why no shots were fired when the limo was on Houston, which was the easiest shot from the TSBD and a LN shooter, but a miss from there and that limo can hit reverse and get the hell out of dodge, this is why they waited for the limo to turn onto elm and get some distance down elm before firing the shots IMHO....There is that old saying "You have nowhere to run"... Hope that helps......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Richards Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 Thanks, Ryan. That does help to put some perspective on things. If one watches the Zapruder film, we have that moment where JFK stops waving which some have suggested was the first shot. As no one seems to go into immediate protective mode and JFK goes back to waving to the crowd, it suggests that if this was a shot, it missed everything. If it made contact with the limo or the road or whatever, surely someone would have heard the impact especially those inside the vehicle. This does support the possibility of a shooter 'jumping the gun' causing the shot to go way high striking the curb near where Tague was standing. The crowd can be excused for thinking it was a car backfiring or whatever but the fact that none of the SS seemed to react, except for a couple of them who gazed back toward the corner of Elm and Houston, again suggests that the bullet didn't make contact with anything. I appreciate your thoughts. They are always appreciated. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Crowe Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 No problem James, glad I could help. I have always wonderd what the noise level was when the motorcade was going by when the shots were fired..I also wonder if anyone in the limo actually heard any of the rounds whiz by, a noise nobody forgets once they have been shot at.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Stapleton Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 Very interesting discussion. To slightly extend the debate a little, a question that has always interested me is whether the Z film was altered to conceal the actions of Bill Greer. Did he briefly bring the President's car to a dead stop before the kill shot? Or has that been disproved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Crowe Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 Hi Mark, If I remember correctly someone posted a picture of the rear of the limo and it looked like the break lights were on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernice Moore Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 (edited) ce350 in a negative view, with enlarged and enhanced insets of areas of tinting, coupled with a low quality effort to demonstrate a trajectory for a shot from the 2nd floor window, penetrating the windshield from the rear, and ending up striking the curb on Main, unjacketed. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Lee: Recall also Charles Brehm, and the third shot as he called it ,that he heard, he stated it really "frightened him" as "it had a different sound to it, and that anybody knows who has been down under targets in the Army ....clip.......you know when a bullet passes over you..the cracking sound it makes, and that bullet had an absolute crack to it...I do believe that shot was wild .It didn't hit anybody."..... But he also states that this last shot , that he heard, that passed over him..and he does say it came from the TSBD area, was after the President had been hit in the head, and the Limo had started to move..? Hi James : This other tape I have,re the Laser tests, (and no I have not found the correct one as yet...) It is not narrated by Roger Moore, ....that is another... This is like a third party who made a tape of all that occurred during the Laser studies...it seems to me....more like a report...??.I don't believe it follows anyones opinion....and remarks on some happenings that are not on the KGB one........I will continue to look.... B.... Edited April 23, 2005 by Bernice Moore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Simkin Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 Very interesting discussion. To slightly extend the debate a little, a question that has always interested me is whether the Z film was altered to conceal the actions of Bill Greer. Did he briefly bring the President's car to a dead stop before the kill shot? Or has that been disproved? See this thread on Greer: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=3126 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Unger Posted April 23, 2005 Author Share Posted April 23, 2005 Hi Mark,If I remember correctly someone posted a picture of the rear of the limo and it looked like the break lights were on.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This was the image i posted on the other forum. Are the brake lights on, or is it just the sunlight reflecting through the brake light cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Gratz Posted April 23, 2005 Share Posted April 23, 2005 If the limo was slowing was it to help the agent climb on the back and to minimize the risk of injury to Jackie? Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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