Jump to content
The Education Forum

Fritz vs. Holmes & Jarman


Recommended Posts

This was posted by Greg Parker over at the ROKC. I hope he doesn't mind my sharing it here. I also hope you are as impressed with his research as I was.

Mr. FRITZ.
Well he told me that he was eating lunch with some of the employees when this happened,
and that he saw all the excitement
and he didn't think-
-I also asked him why he left the building. He said there was so much excitement there then that "I didn't think there would be any work done that afternoon and we don't punch a clock and they don't keep very close time on our work and I just left."

Mr. BALL. At that time didn't you know that one of your officers, Baker, had seen Oswald on the second floor?

Mr. FRITZ. T
hey told me about that down at the bookstore
; I believe Mr. Truly or someone told me about it, told me they had met him--I think he told me, person who told me about
, I believe told me that they met him on the stairway, but our investigation shows that he actually saw him in a lunchroom, a little lunchroom where they were eating,
and he held his gun on this man and Mr. Truly told him that he worked there, and the officer let him go.

-------------------------------------------------------

Mr. HOLMES. He said, as I remember, actually, in answer to questions there,
he mentioned that when lunchtime came, one of the Negro employees asked him if. he would like to sit and each lunch with him, and he said, "Yes, but I can't go right now." He said, "You go and take the elevator on down." No, he said, "You go ahead, but send the elevator back up."

He didn't say up where
,
and he didn't mention what floor he was on. Nobody seemed to ask him.

You see, I assumed that obvious questions like that had been asked in previous interrogation. So I didn't interrupt too much, but he said, "Send the elevator back up to me."

Then he said when all this commotion started, "I just went on downstairs." And he didn't say whether he took the elevator or not. He said, "I went down, and as I started to go out and see what it was all about, a police officer stopped me just before I got to the front door,
and started to ask me some questions, and my superintendent of the place stepped up and told the officers that I am one of the employees of the building, so he told me to step aside for a little bit and we will get to you later. Then I just went on out in the crowd to see what it was all about."

And he wouldn't tell what happened then.

Mr. BELIN. Did he say where he was at the time of the shooting?

Mr. HOLMES.
He just said he was still up in the building when the commotion
-- he kind of----

-------------------------------------------------------

(Jarman to HSCA)

"... as we was running out of the building the police stopped us, he told us to come back inside the building, so we proceeded back inside the building.
And, after we was inside the building after that, I heard that Oswald had come down through the office and came down the front stairs and he was stopped by the officer that had stopped us and sent us back in the building and Mr. Truly told them that that was alright, that he worked there,
so then, he proceeded own (sic) out the building and we wondered why he stopped us."

- - - - - - - - - -

"
Well, there was a billy lovelady standing out there, he was on the steps, see... And, Oswald was coming out the door and he (Lovelady) said the police had stopped Oswald and sent him back in the building, billy lovelady said that Mr. Trudy (sic) told the policeman that Oswald was alright, that he worked there, so Oswald walked on down the stairs."

-------------------------------------------------------

Based on Jarman alone, an encounter between Oswald and a cop happened either when Truly and Baker came in, or when Truly came back down - or Truly never went up at all - someone else took Baker up.

The giveaway is that Jarman says the cop that stopped Oswald at the entrance was the same one who stopped them. It can't have been Baker.

Also (and I have pointed this out before) look at the way Fritz stumbles badly as soon as issue about Oswald leaving a nd a cop encounter is raised. He virtually admits that Truly gave a different story initially, but changed it after a DPD investigation found it all happened a floor up!

Here is again from Fritz, stumbling badly and also admitting that Truly said at the time that the encounter was on the stairway. Close but no cigar. The DMN story as overheard by reporter Kent Biffle was that the encounter was in a little storage room ON THE FIRST FLOOR,.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/jfk50/explore/20130926-suspected-killer-defected-to-russia-in-59.ece

They told me about that down at the bookstore; I believe Mr. Truly or someone told me about it, told me they had met him--I think he told me, person who told me about, I believe told me that they met him on the stairway, but our investigation shows that he actually saw him in a lunchroom, a little lunchroom where they were eating, and he held his gun on this man and Mr. Truly told him that he worked there, and the officer let him go.

The person who said "on the stairway" was not Truly - it was Baker in his affidavit - an ecounter he actually placed on the 3rd or 4th floor with someone NOT matching Oswald's descriiption. http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/04/0426-001.gif

In hindsight, it should be obvious that 2 different encounters involving different cops and different "suspects" were merged and relocated to a middle ground (the 2nd floor).

--------------------

Fritz's unbelievability is exemplified in this statement: "Well he told me that he was eating lunch with some of the employees when this happened, and that he saw all the excitement". How can Oswald SEE the excitment while eating lunch unless he is eating lunch outside? Yet Fritz has Oswald eating lunch INSIDE.

--
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Barto

Bonnie Ray Williams did not testify that he saw Baker & Truly on the 5th floor. He only testified to seeing the top of a motorcycle cop's helmet.

"Mr. BALL. The shelf we will mark "WX", both ends of the shelf. How high is the shelf?

Mr. WILLIAMS. Pretty high.
Mr. BALL. Does it go to the ceiling?
Mr. WILLIAMS. As I remember, they do not go exactly to the ceiling. But I am 6 feet, and they are way over me, I think.
Mr. BALL. Now, could you see all of the elevators from there?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, by me being the tallest, I saw --
Mr. BALL. I am not going into what you saw. But could you see either elevator from where you were standing at "Z"?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir; you could see this pretty plainly.
Mr. BALL. You mean the west elevator
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes sir.
Mr. BALL. Could you see the east elevator?
Mr. WILLIAMS. No, sir; you could not see it exactly.
Mr. BALL. Now, when you were questioned by the FBI agents, talking to Mr. Odum and Mr. Griffin, they reported in writing here that while you were standing at the west end of the building on the fifth floor, a police officer came up on the elevator and looked all around the fifth floor and left the floor. Did you see anything like that?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, at the time I was up there I saw a motorcycle policeman. He came up. And the only thing I saw of him was his white helmet.
Mr. BALL. What did he
Mr. WILLIAMS. He just came around, and around to the elevator.
Mr. BALL. Which elevator?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I believe it was the east elevator.
Mr. BALL. Did you see anybody with him?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I did not."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...