Of 'Lone Nut Assassin's' Lawyer's and Psychiatrist's

[Ashton Gray]

CD933a dated May 1, 1964...at the end of CD 933; there we read, "LACY stated he has been informed that DAN RATHER, newspaper correspondent, Washington, D.C. had made a statement that CARROLL is known to have made investigation about 11 months ago in El Paso, Texas and Mexico regarding a proposed assassination plot and was possibly being paid $ 10,000 by the Rockefeller Foundation for his work."

Robert, all your work here is of enduring value. It is being timelined, and I wanted to mention to you this little matter I was just noticed about that dropped out of that effort: when the reference to this El Paso incident was inserted into the timeline "about eleven months" prior to 1 May 1964, it dropped in at 1 c. June 1963, juxtaposed curiously close to this entry:

• Wednesday, 5 June 1963
  The first important meeting between the President and the Governor took place in El Paso, Tex., in June. 1963. Kennedy suggested August 27 as a possible date for the visit because that was the Vice President's birthday. The Governor objected since inclement Texas weather at that time of year resulted in the absence of many Texans from the State for vacations. Apart from the President's suggestion that four or five fundraising dinners be held in the major Texas cities, no final decision was reached regarding the date for the trip or the itinerary. Nevertheless, the decision to make the trip was considered final as of this time. [staff Report of HSCA on "Politics and Presidential Protection: The Motorcade." Other sources place John F. Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, John Connally, Cliff Carter, and Fred Korth at this meeting at the Cortez Hotel in El Paso.]
  

I thought you might find this of some interest.

Ashton

Edited January 7, 2007 by Ashton Gray

[Robert Howard]

CD933a dated May 1, 1964...at the end of CD 933; there we read, "LACY stated he has been informed that DAN RATHER, newspaper correspondent, Washington, D.C. had made a statement that CARROLL is known to have made investigation about 11 months ago in El Paso, Texas and Mexico regarding a proposed assassination plot and was possibly being paid $ 10,000 by the Rockefeller Foundation for his work."

Robert, all your work here is of enduring value. It is being timelined, and I wanted to mention to you this little matter I was just noticed about that dropped out of that effort: when the reference to this El Paso incident was inserted into the timeline "about eleven months" prior to 1 May 1964, it dropped in at 1 c. June 1963, juxtaposed curiously close to this entry:

• Wednesday, 5 June 1963
  The first important meeting between the President and the Governor took place in El Paso, Tex., in June. 1963. Kennedy suggested August 27 as a possible date for the visit because that was the Vice President's birthday. The Governor objected since inclement Texas weather at that time of year resulted in the absence of many Texans from the State for vacations. Apart from the President's suggestion that four or five fundraising dinners be held in the major Texas cities, no final decision was reached regarding the date for the trip or the itinerary. Nevertheless, the decision to make the trip was considered final as of this time. [staff Report of HSCA on "Politics and Presidential Protection: The Motorcade." Other sources place John F. Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, John Connally, Cliff Carter, and Fred Korth at this meeting at the Cortez Hotel in El Paso.]
  

I thought you might find this of some interest.

Ashton

Thanks Ashton, Your information is duly noted....

The Time-Life piece above, like many items in the media, even today is chock full of various noteworthy items, there is the reference to Oswald's idiosyncrasies wherein it mentions his "arrogant gestures alternating with calm self-possession," I would love to see a example of that description in a video format, one might offer that there was no such thing and have a point of valid contention, because the statement presupposes knowing the inner-workings of Oswald's mind, unless he really was part of a MKULTRA nightmare gone bad.....

As in other articles throughout time concerning "controversial subjects" what is not mentioned is not just 'arguably more important,' but can be factually proven to be so....

Case in point: The article while mentioning that James Earl Ray used various aliases, Raynes, Rayns Ryan did not mention the most controversial alias of all Eric S. Galt which not only was the alias used by James Earl Ray beginning in July 1967, according to Ray's own attorney William Pepper [see Order's to Kill page 435] but was the real name of a real person who had a top secret security clearance, and was more than a little familiar with the Oak Ridge National Laboratory, [ibid 435]

Other interesting factoids included the fact that one of the ministers who was in Dallas circa 1963 and was involved in requests for JFK to come to Dallas, was also coincidentally? among those who was 'around Memphis during the time frame of MLK's assassination' The linkage was noted by the late Penn Jones [he of the much, and fashionably maligned group of early JFK researchers] Who was the minister, you ask? I am sure someone can answer that question...any takers.....

The Big Picture: The world of Johnathan Vankin is a familiar one to me...he writes of the timelines and curiosities of history....of the Ronald Reagan who refused to extradite Edgar Eugene Bradley to New Orleans and flirted with the JBS while he was Governor of California but decades later would be an instrumental part of the Helsinki Accords and glastnost with Mikhail Gorbachev, [a slighty important era in American history at least among us historical folk]...Who was William Edgerton Morehouse, Jr. Johnathan could probably tell you..

[he was incidentally in the same hospital with Lee Harvey Oswald in Muther Russia]

There is a world where people walk between the raindrops....where James Early Ray goes in and out of Mexico, before he becomes a part of America's patsy Hall of Fame, if only in some peoples minds.

Edited January 7, 2007 by Robert Howard

[Robert Howard]

CD933a dated May 1, 1964...at the end of CD 933; there we read, "LACY stated he has been informed that DAN RATHER, newspaper correspondent, Washington, D.C. had made a statement that CARROLL is known to have made investigation about 11 months ago in El Paso, Texas and Mexico regarding a proposed assassination plot and was possibly being paid $ 10,000 by the Rockefeller Foundation for his work."

Robert, all your work here is of enduring value. It is being timelined, and I wanted to mention to you this little matter I was just noticed about that dropped out of that effort: when the reference to this El Paso incident was inserted into the timeline "about eleven months" prior to 1 May 1964, it dropped in at 1 c. June 1963, juxtaposed curiously close to this entry:

• Wednesday, 5 June 1963
  The first important meeting between the President and the Governor took place in El Paso, Tex., in June. 1963. Kennedy suggested August 27 as a possible date for the visit because that was the Vice President's birthday. The Governor objected since inclement Texas weather at that time of year resulted in the absence of many Texans from the State for vacations. Apart from the President's suggestion that four or five fundraising dinners be held in the major Texas cities, no final decision was reached regarding the date for the trip or the itinerary. Nevertheless, the decision to make the trip was considered final as of this time. [staff Report of HSCA on "Politics and Presidential Protection: The Motorcade." Other sources place John F. Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, John Connally, Cliff Carter, and Fred Korth at this meeting at the Cortez Hotel in El Paso.]
  

I thought you might find this of some interest.

Ashton

Thanks Ashton, Your information is duly noted....

The Time-Life piece above, like many items in the media, even today is chock full of various noteworthy items, there is the reference to Oswald's idiosyncrasies wherein it mentions his "arrogant gestures alternating with calm self-possession," I would love to see a example of that description in a video format, one might offer that there was no such thing and have a point of valid contention, because the statement presupposes knowing the inner-workings of Oswald's mind, unless he really was part of a MKULTRA nightmare gone bad.....

As in other articles throughout time concerning "controversial subjects" what is not mentioned is not just 'arguably more important,' but can be factually proven to be so....

Case in point: The article while mentioning that James Earl Ray used various aliases, Raynes, Rayns Ryan did not mention the most controversial alias of all Eric S. Galt which not only was the alias used by James Earl Ray beginning in July 1967, according to Ray's own attorney William Pepper [see Order's to Kill page 435] but was the real name of a real person who had a top secret security clearance, and was more than a little familiar with the Oak Ridge National Laboratory, [ibid 435]

Other interesting factoids included the fact that one of the ministers who was in Dallas circa 1963 and was involved in requests for JFK to come to Dallas, was also coincidentally? among those who was 'around Memphis during the time frame of MLK's assassination' The linkage was noted by the late Penn Jones [he of the much, and fashionably maligned group of early JFK researchers] Who was the minister, you ask? I am sure someone can answer that question...any takers.....

The Big Picture: The world of Johnathan Vankin is a familiar one to me...he writes of the timelines and curiosities of history....of the Ronald Reagan who refused to extradite Edgar Eugene Bradley to New Orleans and flirted with the JBS while he was Governor of California but decades later would be an instrumental part of the Helsinki Accords and glastnost with Mikhail Gorbachev, [a slighty important era in American history at least among us historical folk]...Who was William Edgerton Morehouse, Jr. Johnathan could probably tell you..

[he was incidentally in the same hospital with Lee Harvey Oswald in Muther Russia]

There is a world where people walk between the raindrops....where James Early Ray goes in and out of Mexico, before he becomes a part of America's patsy Hall of Fame, if only in some peoples minds.

There has been [rightly] quite a bit of focus lately on Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. with reference to Lee Harvey Oswald's "plans" regarding various and sundry paper trails, the testimony of Ruth Paine both at the Grand Jury Hearings preceding the Clay Shaw Trial as well as the latter, provide specific recollections by the woman who "befriended" the Oswald's....[with friends like that who needs enemies?] of Lee possibly going to Philadelphia or Houston....At any rate, there is another geographical area of interest that pops up and the following "incoherent" person hailed from that area.....

While the article's title would certainly be an accurate portrayal, of the circumstances detailed. would it not be accurate to say another potential headline could have been....David Glass arrested, about to do to Ruby what Ruby did to Oswald?......

With regard to the issue of pertinence to this thread, if one reads the fine print, Decker did say that he felt Glass was in need of a psychiatric examination, the funny thing is...he may have been more right than we'll ever know....

[Robert Howard]

What were once threads of evidence revealing sinister individuals in the shadows of the JFK labyrinthe, have, with the passage of time despoiled many of those garments completely.....In the last few months the Education Forum has seen posts detailing that. D.H. [Dry Hole] Byrd was doing the social circuit in Dallas with Dr. Werner von Alvensleben, fresh from his hunting trip in Mozambique; we have discovered that Volkmar Schmidt studied mind control techniques under the tutelage of Dr. William Kuetemeyer. Kuetemeyer, in turn, was from the same locale that Lt. Gen Charles Willoughby's aka Adolf Tscheppe-Weidenbach family name is rightly associated - Heidelberg......

After all these years, the 1980's JFK research era of identifying a "group" - [pro-or anti Castro Cuban's, Organized Crime, the CIA, oil interests etc.,] has to be seen as a little to simplistic, one would think, although a infrastructure containing various individuals linked to all of the above is IMO very close to reality, if not probability.

So in the tatters of lies and obfuscation which continue to billow from the chimney's of corporate media, we can, if for one brief, shining moment ostensibly see the same dynamic that existed in 1964....For the Gerald Posner's of the world we have American Spy, in which Eduardo aka E. H. Hunt, in a manner not unlike the classic character of Schultz on Hogan's Heroes does the proverbial "I see nothing, I hear nothing, I know nothing.....while the not so easily misled read Saint John unveiling a scenario in which those CIA bastards we always suspected were in it up to their necks.....see Rolling Stone - April 5, 2007 "New Clues to JFK's Murder?"

Even in dad's tome E.H. Hunt offer's LBJ as a person of interest, to say the least.

Continuing the assault on Official Lies of History, another tidbit has been slowly emerging concerning Dr. Sidney Gottlieb, MK/ULTRA.....aka The CIA's Little Shop of Horror's later renamed MKSEARCH in 1964.

The following is an admonishment for the those who see more than similarities between 1930's Germany and the first decade of the new millenium in America.

"It is clearer and clearer to me that life is not held sacred in this country, it is cheap" Senator Mike Gravel 1972

In the book "The Treatment" - Martha Stephens 2002 Duke University Press

See

http://www.amazon.com/Treatment-Story-Thos...n/dp/0822328119

....The preface reads.....This book is dedicated to the ninety victims of the human radiation experiments in Cincinnati General Hospital [1960-1972] it has benn written so that history may remember their injuries and afflictions, and their unwitting sacrifice [italics mine RLH]

in a project sponsored by the U.S. Department of Defense and carried out by researchers in the College of Medicine at the University of Cincinnati.....

In the Prologue of the book it states "In the spring of 1960....a new research project had begun withing Cincinnati General Hospital for the U.S. Military. This project needed subjects who could be irradiated over their whole bodies as if for treatment of cancer."

Cutting to the chase.....one of the more interesting excerpts can be found on page 37, in which it states......"Not long after the onset of our campaign, we became aware through the Energy Department disclosures, that in this Texas town a massive total body project had been carried out during the years 1951-1956 at M.D. Anderson Hospital for Cancer Research in association with the University of Texas Medical School. These tests were sponsored by the U.S. Air Force. Two Hundred and sixty-three individuals were irradiated over the five years of the tests....."

Continuing a few sentences later......."In parallel experiments at Baylor University in the same town, another 112 people were irradiated from 1954 to 1963 --- with what individual outcomes we do not know even now. No community or university group even monitored this Cold War research, and even when the national Advisory Committee was taking up these cases --- after its fashion --- in 1994, no Texas paper fell upon the story and developed the publicity that would rake up from the local roots all the hidden and half hidden facts of the case."

Continuing a few sentences later......."The reporter who in 1993 found the families of those injected with plutonium, Eileen Welsome, was able to enlarge somewhat on the bare facts of the Houston exposures in her book The Plutonium Files in 1999 and to identify the lead investigator at M.D. Anderson as one of the German "paper-clip" scientists, Herbert Gerstner."

I would hope that no explanation is need regarding what is Operation Paper-Clip.....

Project Paperclip

The Air Force's School of Aviation Medicine (SAM) at Brooks Air Force Base in Texas conducted dozens of human radiation experiments during the Cold War, among them flash blindness studies in connection with atomic weapons tests, and data gathering for total-body irradiation studies conducted in Houston, Tx.

Regarding Dr Gerstner, it should be remembered that the German doctors and scientists [most famous name undoubtedly Dr Werner Von Braun] were brought here by our government.

Also see

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/radiation/dir...ab_f/br13f3.txt

which states.......

"The portfolio of experiments at the SAM was one that would particularly benefit from the Paperclip recruits. Experiments there included total-body irradiation, space medicine and bed rest studies, and flash blindness studies. Herbert Gerstner,2 [The Committee has no documents at this time indicating that Dr. Gerstner engaged in human experimentation in Germany.] a principal investigator in TBI experiments at the SAM, was acting director of the Institute of Physiology at the University of Leipzig; he became a radiobiologist at the SAM."

Although, The Treatment is several years old, I had never heard of the book until recently, the Judge who ruled that no cover-up or deception would be permitted on her watch, is admirable and it goes without saying that more Judges of Sandra Beckwith's caliber are needed as well as the fact that in the Republicanized State of Texas, the fact that no newspaper covered this story does not surprise me in the least.....

Most Forum members should be aware of the issue of funding between the Central Intelligence Agency and a list a mile long of Foundations, Funds et cetera.

In the book - The Cultural Cold War: The CIA and the World of Arts and Letters........

By Frances Stonor Saunders The New Press, 528 pages

.......it was revealed that in August 1964 a leak occurred in the course of an investigation into the tax-exempt status of private American Foundations by Congressman Wright Patman, the foundation's [there were eight in all] became known as the Patman Eight, which were used as CIA Front's. The eight were the Gotham Foundation, the Price Fund, the Edsel Fund, Andrew Hamilton Fund, the Borden Trust the Beacon Fund and the Kentfield Fund.

These Foundation's, it transpired, were 'mail drops' often consisting of nothing more than an address, set-up to receive CIA money which could then be transferred elsewhere with apparent legitimacy. After money was transferred to the mail drop, the 'second pass' or 'pass-through' would occur: the front foundation would make a 'contribution' to a prominent foundation widely known for its legitimate activities.......The 'third pass' occurred when the legitimate foundation made a contribution to the CIA-designated recipient organization.......The 990-A forms of four other foundations illustrated this pass-through operation: The M.D. Anderson Foundation of Houston, the Hoblitzelle Foundation of Dallas, the David, Josephine and Winfield Baird Foundation of New York, and the J.M. Kaplan Fund of New York. Each of these foundations received were I.O.D. 'assets.' From 1958 to 1964 the Anderson Foundation received $655,000 of CIA money through phoney foundations such as the Borden Trust and the Beacon Fund. It then disbursed the same amount to the CIA-supported American Fund for Free Jurists, Inc., a New York based organization later known as the American Council For the International Commission of Jurists. The Baird Foundation received a total of $456,800 between 1961 and 1964 in

'pass- throughs,' and piped the money on to CIA programmes in the Middle East and Africa."

A later February 1967 newspaper story in the national media revealed that Republic National Bank of Dallas was also in effect, a CIA conduit of funds.

To say that research into these areas insofar as they pertain to the assassination of President Kennedy is concerned, has been "neglected," would be in my estimation, the understatement of the third millenium....

[Greg Parker]

What were once threads of evidence revealing sinister individuals in the shadows of the JFK labyrinthe, have, with the passage of time despoiled many of those garments completely.....In the last few months the Education Forum has seen posts detailing that. D.H. [Dry Hole] Byrd was doing the social circuit in Dallas with Dr. Werner von Alvensleben, fresh from his hunting trip in Mozambique; we have discovered that Volkmar Schmidt studied mind control techniques under the tutelage of Dr. William Kuetemeyer. Kuetemeyer, in turn, was from the same locale that Lt. Gen Charles Willoughby's aka Adolf Tscheppe-Weidenbach family name is rightly associated - Heidelberg......

After all these years, the 1980's JFK research era of identifying a "group" - [pro-or anti Castro Cuban's, Organized Crime, the CIA, oil interests etc.,] has to be seen as a little to simplistic, one would think, although a infrastructure containing various individuals linked to all of the above is IMO very close to reality, if not probability.

So in the tatters of lies and obfuscation which continue to billow from the chimney's of corporate media, we can, if for one brief, shining moment ostensibly see the same dynamic that existed in 1964....For the Gerald Posner's of the world we have American Spy, in which Eduardo aka E. H. Hunt, in a manner not unlike the classic character of Schultz on Hogan's Heroes does the proverbial "I see nothing, I hear nothing, I know nothing.....while the not so easily misled read Saint John unveiling a scenario in which those CIA bastards we always suspected were in it up to their necks.....see Rolling Stone - April 5, 2007 "New Clues to JFK's Murder?"

Even in dad's tome E.H. Hunt offer's LBJ as a person of interest, to say the least.

Continuing the assault on Official Lies of History, another tidbit has been slowly emerging concerning Dr. Sidney Gottlieb, MK/ULTRA.....aka The CIA's Little Shop of Horror's later renamed MKSEARCH in 1964.

The following is an admonishment for the those who see more than similarities between 1930's Germany and the first decade of the new millenium in America.

"It is clearer and clearer to me that life is not held sacred in this country, it is cheap" Senator Mike Gravel 1972

In the book "The Treatment" - Martha Stephens 2002 Duke University Press

See

http://www.amazon.com/Treatment-Story-Thos...n/dp/0822328119

....The preface reads.....This book is dedicated to the ninety victims of the human radiation experiments in Cincinnati General Hospital [1960-1972] it has benn written so that history may remember their injuries and afflictions, and their unwitting sacrifice [italics mine RLH]

in a project sponsored by the U.S. Department of Defense and carried out by researchers in the College of Medicine at the University of Cincinnati.....

In the Prologue of the book it states "In the spring of 1960....a new research project had begun withing Cincinnati General Hospital for the U.S. Military. This project needed subjects who could be irradiated over their whole bodies as if for treatment of cancer."

Cutting to the chase.....one of the more interesting excerpts can be found on page 37, in which it states......"Not long after the onset of our campaign, we became aware through the Energy Department disclosures, that in this Texas town a massive total body project had been carried out during the years 1951-1956 at M.D. Anderson Hospital for Cancer Research in association with the University of Texas Medical School. These tests were sponsored by the U.S. Air Force. Two Hundred and sixty-three individuals were irradiated over the five years of the tests....."

Continuing a few sentences later......."In parallel experiments at Baylor University in the same town, another 112 people were irradiated from 1954 to 1963 --- with what individual outcomes we do not know even now. No community or university group even monitored this Cold War research, and even when the national Advisory Committee was taking up these cases --- after its fashion --- in 1994, no Texas paper fell upon the story and developed the publicity that would rake up from the local roots all the hidden and half hidden facts of the case."

Continuing a few sentences later......."The reporter who in 1993 found the families of those injected with plutonium, Eileen Welsome, was able to enlarge somewhat on the bare facts of the Houston exposures in her book The Plutonium Files in 1999 and to identify the lead investigator at M.D. Anderson as one of the German "paper-clip" scientists, Herbert Gerstner."

I would hope that no explanation is need regarding what is Operation Paper-Clip.....

Project Paperclip

The Air Force's School of Aviation Medicine (SAM) at Brooks Air Force Base in Texas conducted dozens of human radiation experiments during the Cold War, among them flash blindness studies in connection with atomic weapons tests, and data gathering for total-body irradiation studies conducted in Houston, Tx.

Regarding Dr Gerstner, it should be remembered that the German doctors and scientists [most famous name undoubtedly Dr Werner Von Braun] were brought here by our government.

Also see

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/radiation/dir...ab_f/br13f3.txt

which states.......

"The portfolio of experiments at the SAM was one that would particularly benefit from the Paperclip recruits. Experiments there included total-body irradiation, space medicine and bed rest studies, and flash blindness studies. Herbert Gerstner,2 [The Committee has no documents at this time indicating that Dr. Gerstner engaged in human experimentation in Germany.] a principal investigator in TBI experiments at the SAM, was acting director of the Institute of Physiology at the University of Leipzig; he became a radiobiologist at the SAM."

Although, The Treatment is several years old, I had never heard of the book until recently, the Judge who ruled that no cover-up or deception would be permitted on her watch, is admirable and it goes without saying that more Judges of Sandra Beckwith's caliber are needed as well as the fact that in the Republicanized State of Texas, the fact that no newspaper covered this story does not surprise me in the least.....

Most Forum members should be aware of the issue of funding between the Central Intelligence Agency and a list a mile long of Foundations, Funds et cetera.

In the book - The Cultural Cold War: The CIA and the World of Arts and Letters........

By Frances Stonor Saunders The New Press, 528 pages

.......it was revealed that in August 1964 a leak occurred in the course of an investigation into the tax-exempt status of private American Foundations by Congressman Wright Patman, the foundation's [there were eight in all] became known as the Patman Eight, which were used as CIA Front's. The eight were the Gotham Foundation, the Price Fund, the Edsel Fund, Andrew Hamilton Fund, the Borden Trust the Beacon Fund and the Kentfield Fund.

These Foundation's, it transpired, were 'mail drops' often consisting of nothing more than an address, set-up to receive CIA money which could then be transferred elsewhere with apparent legitimacy. After money was transferred to the mail drop, the 'second pass' or 'pass-through' would occur: the front foundation would make a 'contribution' to a prominent foundation widely known for its legitimate activities.......The 'third pass' occurred when the legitimate foundation made a contribution to the CIA-designated recipient organization.......The 990-A forms of four other foundations illustrated this pass-through operation: The M.D. Anderson Foundation of Houston, the Hoblitzelle Foundation of Dallas, the David, Josephine and Winfield Baird Foundation of New York, and the J.M. Kaplan Fund of New York. Each of these foundations received were I.O.D. 'assets.' From 1958 to 1964 the Anderson Foundation received $655,000 of CIA money through phoney foundations such as the Borden Trust and the Beacon Fund. It then disbursed the same amount to the CIA-supported American Fund for Free Jurists, Inc., a New York based organization later known as the American Council For the International Commission of Jurists. The Baird Foundation received a total of $456,800 between 1961 and 1964 in

'pass- throughs,' and piped the money on to CIA programmes in the Middle East and Africa."

A later February 1967 newspaper story in the national media revealed that Republic National Bank of Dallas was also in effect, a CIA conduit of funds.

To say that research into these areas insofar as they pertain to the assassination of President Kennedy is concerned, has been "neglected," would be in my estimation, the understatement of the third millenium....

Robert, these are significant areas, regardless of whether or not they lead directly to the "perps". In fact, I don't think the assassination can be fully comprehended as a stand alone incident. There is a context, as well as multiple subtexts which need closer attention before anything approaching a complete historical understanding can be claimed.

Kudos to you for your work in these areas.

[Robert Howard]

What were once threads of evidence revealing sinister individuals in the shadows of the JFK labyrinthe, have, with the passage of time despoiled many of those garments completely.....In the last few months the Education Forum has seen posts detailing that. D.H. [Dry Hole] Byrd was doing the social circuit in Dallas with Dr. Werner von Alvensleben, fresh from his hunting trip in Mozambique; we have discovered that Volkmar Schmidt studied mind control techniques under the tutelage of Dr. William Kuetemeyer. Kuetemeyer, in turn, was from the same locale that Lt. Gen Charles Willoughby's aka Adolf Tscheppe-Weidenbach family name is rightly associated - Heidelberg......

After all these years, the 1980's JFK research era of identifying a "group" - [pro-or anti Castro Cuban's, Organized Crime, the CIA, oil interests etc.,] has to be seen as a little to simplistic, one would think, although a infrastructure containing various individuals linked to all of the above is IMO very close to reality, if not probability.

So in the tatters of lies and obfuscation which continue to billow from the chimney's of corporate media, we can, if for one brief, shining moment ostensibly see the same dynamic that existed in 1964....For the Gerald Posner's of the world we have American Spy, in which Eduardo aka E. H. Hunt, in a manner not unlike the classic character of Schultz on Hogan's Heroes does the proverbial "I see nothing, I hear nothing, I know nothing.....while the not so easily misled read Saint John unveiling a scenario in which those CIA bastards we always suspected were in it up to their necks.....see Rolling Stone - April 5, 2007 "New Clues to JFK's Murder?"

Even in dad's tome E.H. Hunt offer's LBJ as a person of interest, to say the least.

Continuing the assault on Official Lies of History, another tidbit has been slowly emerging concerning Dr. Sidney Gottlieb, MK/ULTRA.....aka The CIA's Little Shop of Horror's later renamed MKSEARCH in 1964.

The following is an admonishment for the those who see more than similarities between 1930's Germany and the first decade of the new millenium in America.

"It is clearer and clearer to me that life is not held sacred in this country, it is cheap" Senator Mike Gravel 1972

In the book "The Treatment" - Martha Stephens 2002 Duke University Press

See

http://www.amazon.com/Treatment-Story-Thos...n/dp/0822328119

....The preface reads.....This book is dedicated to the ninety victims of the human radiation experiments in Cincinnati General Hospital [1960-1972] it has benn written so that history may remember their injuries and afflictions, and their unwitting sacrifice [italics mine RLH]

in a project sponsored by the U.S. Department of Defense and carried out by researchers in the College of Medicine at the University of Cincinnati.....

In the Prologue of the book it states "In the spring of 1960....a new research project had begun withing Cincinnati General Hospital for the U.S. Military. This project needed subjects who could be irradiated over their whole bodies as if for treatment of cancer."

Cutting to the chase.....one of the more interesting excerpts can be found on page 37, in which it states......"Not long after the onset of our campaign, we became aware through the Energy Department disclosures, that in this Texas town a massive total body project had been carried out during the years 1951-1956 at M.D. Anderson Hospital for Cancer Research in association with the University of Texas Medical School. These tests were sponsored by the U.S. Air Force. Two Hundred and sixty-three individuals were irradiated over the five years of the tests....."

Continuing a few sentences later......."In parallel experiments at Baylor University in the same town, another 112 people were irradiated from 1954 to 1963 --- with what individual outcomes we do not know even now. No community or university group even monitored this Cold War research, and even when the national Advisory Committee was taking up these cases --- after its fashion --- in 1994, no Texas paper fell upon the story and developed the publicity that would rake up from the local roots all the hidden and half hidden facts of the case."

Continuing a few sentences later......."The reporter who in 1993 found the families of those injected with plutonium, Eileen Welsome, was able to enlarge somewhat on the bare facts of the Houston exposures in her book The Plutonium Files in 1999 and to identify the lead investigator at M.D. Anderson as one of the German "paper-clip" scientists, Herbert Gerstner."

I would hope that no explanation is need regarding what is Operation Paper-Clip.....

Project Paperclip

The Air Force's School of Aviation Medicine (SAM) at Brooks Air Force Base in Texas conducted dozens of human radiation experiments during the Cold War, among them flash blindness studies in connection with atomic weapons tests, and data gathering for total-body irradiation studies conducted in Houston, Tx.

Regarding Dr Gerstner, it should be remembered that the German doctors and scientists [most famous name undoubtedly Dr Werner Von Braun] were brought here by our government.

Also see

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/radiation/dir...ab_f/br13f3.txt

which states.......

"The portfolio of experiments at the SAM was one that would particularly benefit from the Paperclip recruits. Experiments there included total-body irradiation, space medicine and bed rest studies, and flash blindness studies. Herbert Gerstner,2 [The Committee has no documents at this time indicating that Dr. Gerstner engaged in human experimentation in Germany.] a principal investigator in TBI experiments at the SAM, was acting director of the Institute of Physiology at the University of Leipzig; he became a radiobiologist at the SAM."

Although, The Treatment is several years old, I had never heard of the book until recently, the Judge who ruled that no cover-up or deception would be permitted on her watch, is admirable and it goes without saying that more Judges of Sandra Beckwith's caliber are needed as well as the fact that in the Republicanized State of Texas, the fact that no newspaper covered this story does not surprise me in the least.....

Most Forum members should be aware of the issue of funding between the Central Intelligence Agency and a list a mile long of Foundations, Funds et cetera.

In the book - The Cultural Cold War: The CIA and the World of Arts and Letters........

By Frances Stonor Saunders The New Press, 528 pages

.......it was revealed that in August 1964 a leak occurred in the course of an investigation into the tax-exempt status of private American Foundations by Congressman Wright Patman, the foundation's [there were eight in all] became known as the Patman Eight, which were used as CIA Front's. The eight were the Gotham Foundation, the Price Fund, the Edsel Fund, Andrew Hamilton Fund, the Borden Trust the Beacon Fund and the Kentfield Fund.

These Foundation's, it transpired, were 'mail drops' often consisting of nothing more than an address, set-up to receive CIA money which could then be transferred elsewhere with apparent legitimacy. After money was transferred to the mail drop, the 'second pass' or 'pass-through' would occur: the front foundation would make a 'contribution' to a prominent foundation widely known for its legitimate activities.......The 'third pass' occurred when the legitimate foundation made a contribution to the CIA-designated recipient organization.......The 990-A forms of four other foundations illustrated this pass-through operation: The M.D. Anderson Foundation of Houston, the Hoblitzelle Foundation of Dallas, the David, Josephine and Winfield Baird Foundation of New York, and the J.M. Kaplan Fund of New York. Each of these foundations received were I.O.D. 'assets.' From 1958 to 1964 the Anderson Foundation received $655,000 of CIA money through phoney foundations such as the Borden Trust and the Beacon Fund. It then disbursed the same amount to the CIA-supported American Fund for Free Jurists, Inc., a New York based organization later known as the American Council For the International Commission of Jurists. The Baird Foundation received a total of $456,800 between 1961 and 1964 in

'pass- throughs,' and piped the money on to CIA programmes in the Middle East and Africa."

A later February 1967 newspaper story in the national media revealed that Republic National Bank of Dallas was also in effect, a CIA conduit of funds.

To say that research into these areas insofar as they pertain to the assassination of President Kennedy is concerned, has been "neglected," would be in my estimation, the understatement of the third millenium....

Robert, these are significant areas, regardless of whether or not they lead directly to the "perps". In fact, I don't think the assassination can be fully comprehended as a stand alone incident. There is a context, as well as multiple subtexts which need closer attention before anything approaching a complete historical understanding can be claimed.

Kudos to you for your work in these areas.

There have been so many books, articles, newsletters and other media written about the assassinations of the 1960's, that sometimes people forget that even the much maligned Warren Commission, does still have something to offer for those who will never buy the official historical premise that "Oswald did it."

To be more specific.......

Those documents are:

CD 7 - FBI Gemberling Report of 10 Dec 1963 re: Oswald....818 pages

Commission Document 7 - FBI Gemberling Report of 10 Dec 1963 re: Oswald

CD 205 - FBI Gemberling Report of 23 Dec 1963 re: Oswald......823 pages

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/....do?docId=10672

CD 1107 FBI Gemberling Report of 15 May 1964 re: Assassination of Pres. Kennedy (5 Volumes) over 1,000 pages

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/....do?docId=11503

To illustrate the point, most Forum members are familiar with the "Oxnard call," which occurred less than 30 minutes before President Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas! The two operators who were monitoring this open line afterwards stated that they believed the person they overheard was, "quite mentally disturbed."

It is in Warren Commission Document 1107

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=107

The Oxnard phone call

Parker Sullivan, President General Telephone Company, Santa Monica, California telephonically advised Special

Agent Paul L. Mack at 11:35 A.M. November 22, 1963 of receipt of anonymous telephone conversation at

Oxnard Exchange, Oxnard, California at approximately 10:10 A.M.

Telephone Operators Mrs. Doris E. Bliss, six years experience, and Mrs Jean M. Shores, six and a half years

experience advised SA John E. Keane that Mrs Bliss, operating a toll call board recording No.Trunk 42, thought

someone had a reciever off as she heard a fuzzy sound and recieved no reply to her call of “operator.” Then on hearing whispering sounds, asked Mrs. Shores to come in on the line as she thought party might be in trouble.

Individual on line started to dial and after dialing a few numbers started whispering very faintly “The President

is going to die at 10:10.” Mrs Bliss and Mrs Shores looked at the telephone company clock located between them

noting the time was 10:07 to 10:08. Mrs Shores stated she next heard in the same whispering voice something as follows “The Justice, the Supreme Court, there is going to be a fire in all the windows, The Government is going up in flames.” Mrs. Shores stated they thought the caller was reading something as she was whispering so rapidly. This party then evidently laid the reciever on the table, but no background noises whatever could be heard. The party then dialed 12-15 digits and Mrs. Bliss again asked if she could be of assistance.

At this time, the voice which sounded like that of a middle aged woman replied “No, I am using the phone.” This reply was in a clear normal voice and did not appear to indicate anything unusual.

The party then went back into the whispering in a definite, rhythmic fast tempo naming at least 12 courts in

order of importance starting with the Supreme Court, and ending with Probate and Juvenile courts. The party then

continued, “The President is going to die at 10:30.” The number of courts were again mentioned. That party then

stated, “The Government takes over everything; lock, stock and barrel.”

This is the last portion of the conversation heard by Mrs. Shores. Mrs Bliss heard a few more seconds of whispering

in which the party stated a number of words as follows: thermostat, rheostat, heostat. The whispers then became

inaudible and after a few seconds, Mrs Bliss released the line as the individual on the party line had been attempting

to get the line. Mrs. Shores and Mrs Bliss stated that entire time lapse of above incident was 10-15 minutes, during

which time they were both off and on the line to answer other calls. At no time was there any other party on the line

and they were both of the opinion that no connection had been made with a second party, and that the caller was

quite mentally disturbed.

Mrs. Delma C. Kerrick, Chief Operator Oxnard, Exchange advised she has no knowledge of receipt of any similar calls.

Mr. Ray Sheehan, Manager Oxnard Exchange advised that recording Trunk No. 42 serves approximately 12,000

stations in the Oxnard, California area of which 60 percent are party lines and telephone company unable to identify

caller or location from which made.

END

The following passage is practically a reprint of a passage from pages 234-235 of Peter Noyes, book Legacy of Doubt.

Flash Forward to the year 1968. on May 28, 1968 Senator Robert F Kennedy flew to Oxnard with his campaign. His advisors and campaign aides hardly gave it a second thought when he disappeared for two hours. He was tense, it had been rough going in Oregon, where the voters had been more receptive to Eugene McCarthy. When Kennedy returned, an aide inquired where had he gone. The Senator laughed and said he had lost his hat while campaigning and had spent the two hours trying to find it. That was the end of the conversation.

But can anyone remember Robert Kennedy covering his touseled hair with a headpiece as he campaigned for votes?

What Kennedy had been doing in Oxnard was attempting to find out more about that phone call.

His prolonged visit to Oxnard that day delayed his return to Oregon and the final showdown with Eugene McCarthy. The press statements said Kennedy's plane was delayed by heavy fog. But the real reason for the delay was Bobby's gut feeling that somewhere in Southern California lay the answer to his brother's murder in Dallas. What if anything, Bobby learned in Oxnard was never determined. On June 5th, 1968 history repeated itself. A mousy little gunman leaped out of the shadows and mortally wounded Robert Kennedy, moments after he had claimed victory in Los Angeles. His names was Sirhan Bashira Sirhan and like Lee Harvey Oswald was immediately depicted as a dedicated Marxist. Like Oswald, Sirhan also had kept a diary in which he professed his allegiance to Communism. It was paradoxical that Sirhan was suddenly a Marxist, four years before while attending Pasadena City College, he had openly advocated the election of Barry Goldwater as President.

I cannot speak for anyone but myself, but after perusing those two passages, It really makes one rethink that oft-heard quote that "the assassinations of the 1960's didn't alter history."

But, then again a quote of that nature, is not unlike witnessing a politician saying that the American people are a "nation of whiners." Perhaps the Republican's 2008 campaign slogan should be, paraphrasing F.D.R, "The only thing we have to offer, is fear itself."

[Greg Parker]

Robert,

it was thanks to your alerting me to the John Keane report on the Oxnard call that I believe I have solved what it was about.

Have finished my article on it, and have forwarded you a copy prior to putting it up on my website.

Should be able to have it up later tonight (my time).

[Greg Parker]

Well, speaking for myself...I'll be looking forward to it...as all of the MANY instances of [some to complete] pre-knowledge of the assassination are of great interest and IMPORTANCE - as they, if traced, lead to those who were involved. Some of these people may have been friends or lovers or just acquaintances who overheard bits and pieces - some were deeply involved. While my guess is this woman was a bit 'mental', her information was not.

Peter,

she had no "information" in the sense I think you're meaning (as in "a tip"?) - nor was she "mental" if she is to be judged by the Keane document alone (and that is all there is to judge her on).

I've put my sick little boy to bed, watched my football team get smashed again and I'm now ready to put the article up.

There will, at some stage, be something of a companion piece about the MLK hit based on another nugget found and passed on by Robert.

[Greg Parker]

Well, speaking for myself...I'll be looking forward to it...as all of the MANY instances of [some to complete] pre-knowledge of the assassination are of great interest and IMPORTANCE - as they, if traced, lead to those who were involved. Some of these people may have been friends or lovers or just acquaintances who overheard bits and pieces - some were deeply involved. While my guess is this woman was a bit 'mental', her information was not.

Peter,

she had no "information" in the sense I think you're meaning (as in "a tip"?) - nor was she "mental" if she is to be judged by the Keane document alone (and that is all there is to judge her on).

I've put my sick little boy to bed, watched my football team get smashed again and I'm now ready to put the article up.

There will, at some stage, be something of a companion piece about the MLK hit based on another nugget found and passed on by Robert.

The article is now up.

The woman was not calling anyone - nor attempting to. The phone and the ability to dial numbers was part of a magic ritual - possibly - or even probably - a radionics ritual. My bet? She was a Rosicrucian attempting to ensure the success of the assassination, which would lead to the JFK era going up in smoke (along with the hated courts and their civil rights) and being replaced by a government which would take over "everything".

[Greg Parker]

Well, speaking for myself...I'll be looking forward to it...as all of the MANY instances of [some to complete] pre-knowledge of the assassination are of great interest and IMPORTANCE - as they, if traced, lead to those who were involved. Some of these people may have been friends or lovers or just acquaintances who overheard bits and pieces - some were deeply involved. While my guess is this woman was a bit 'mental', her information was not.

Peter,

she had no "information" in the sense I think you're meaning (as in "a tip"?) - nor was she "mental" if she is to be judged by the Keane document alone (and that is all there is to judge her on).

I've put my sick little boy to bed, watched my football team get smashed again and I'm now ready to put the article up.

There will, at some stage, be something of a companion piece about the MLK hit based on another nugget found and passed on by Robert.

The article is now up.

The woman was not calling anyone - nor attempting to. The phone and the ability to dial numbers was part of a magic ritual - possibly - or even probably - a radionics ritual. My bet? She was a Rosicrucian attempting to ensure the success of the assassination (yes, imo, she had foreknowledge. The alternative being that she had no foreknowledge - but her spell actually worked). This would lead to the JFK era going up in smoke (along with the hated courts and their civil rights) and being replaced by a government which would take over "everything".

The Oxnard Riddle Explained

[Michael Hogan]

The woman was not calling anyone - nor attempting to. The phone and the ability to dial numbers was part of a magic ritual - possibly - or even probably - a radionics ritual. My bet? She was a Rosicrucian attempting to ensure the success of the assassination (yes, imo, she had foreknowledge. The alternative being that she had no foreknowledge - but her spell actually worked). This would lead to the JFK era going up in smoke (along with the hated courts and their civil rights) and being replaced by a government which would take over "everything".

The Oxnard Riddle Explained

Greg,

In your article The Oxnard Riddle Explained you state: "Rosicrucians (AMORC) are among a number of groups who practice and teach radionics." (Citation: Rosicrucian (AMORC) Digest, 1943)

Can you offer any more evidence to support the above statement?

Do you maintain that AMORC practices and teaches radionics as described and defined by Ellis Peterson?

[Greg Parker]

The woman was not calling anyone - nor attempting to. The phone and the ability to dial numbers was part of a magic ritual - possibly - or even probably - a radionics ritual. My bet? She was a Rosicrucian attempting to ensure the success of the assassination (yes, imo, she had foreknowledge. The alternative being that she had no foreknowledge - but her spell actually worked). This would lead to the JFK era going up in smoke (along with the hated courts and their civil rights) and being replaced by a government which would take over "everything".

The Oxnard Riddle Explained

Greg,

In your article The Oxnard Riddle Explained you state: "Rosicrucians (AMORC) are among a number of groups who practice and teach radionics." (Citation: Rosicrucian (AMORC) Digest, 1943)

Can you offer any more evidence to support the above statement?

Do you maintain that AMORC practices and teaches radionics as described and defined by Ellis Peterson?

Michael,

I never said they practice and teach it as described and defined by Ellis Peterson - only that Peterson is an expert in the field of radionics. To me, he comes across as kind of an Arthur Young type, in that he has a solid scientific background.

What is your point with this question?

Do you dispute this lady was performing some kind of ritual, or only my best guess that she was a Rosicrucian?

Here is one link which may go some way to answering your question.

http://www.lifetechnology.org/rosicrucian.php

Alternatively, you can use various groupings of these keywords to see what your favored search engine throws out:

radionics - psionics - Rosicrucians - amorc

(psionics is the more modern term for radionics)

[Greg Parker]

The article is now up.

The woman was not calling anyone - nor attempting to. The phone and the ability to dial numbers was part of a magic ritual - possibly - or even probably - a radionics ritual. My bet? She was a Rosicrucian attempting to ensure the success of the assassination, which would lead to the JFK era going up in smoke (along with the hated courts and their civil rights) and being replaced by a government which would take over "everything".

That's certainly intriguing.

As is your discovery of an Arthur Young quote in his Science, Spirit & The Soul, 1985 that:

"it was the mind of the operator that made the device function, and that it was the symbolic form of the device that dynamically functioned to make it work."

And the potential discovery of an Alpawna Box at Oswald's rooming house residence.

I'm reminded of Lincoln Lawrence's claims in "Were We Controlled?" of RHIC (Radio Hypnotic Intracerebral Control) and EDOM (Electronic Dissolution of Memory). Amongst my raw research notes is the following piece by electronic mind control researcher Mike Coyle (probably originally posted to a newsgroup):

The preceding briefing is to educate the reader on the Intelligence

Community's use of Mind-Control and Thought-Manipulation that may be

implemented today, as well as a few actual case scenarios of successful

operations conducted by the Central Intelligence Agency, The Office of

Naval Intelligence, and, in some limited capacity, Intelligence Support

Activities units.

The senarios described in this briefing have been selected for their

recognition factor for members of intelligence teams as "well known"

events in recent history and for their direct involvements with various

U.S. Intelligence agencies and selected operations connected to these

events.

These manipulations and degrees of control are easily achieved after

years of intensive research by both the CIA and the Office of Naval

Intelligence. The methods cover the range of actual hypno-programming,

through either overt or covert methods as utilized by the agency

concerned in the use of R.H.I.C., U.S.I.C., E.E.O.M. and E.D.O.M.

techniques.

Ultrasound technology is most frequently used by the lesser intelligence

agencies in their various theaters of operation. This method is known

as Ultrasonic Intra-Cerebral Control. An intelligence unit commonly

referred to as Division Five which is directly connected to the FBI, is

mainly responsible for the study and subsequent use of this type of

Mind-Control procedure.

Three types of procured methods of Mind-Control at its highest performance

utilization are as follows:

1. E.D.O.M. (Electronic Dissolution of Memory)

2. E.E.O.M. (Electronic Enhancement of Memory)

3. R.H.I.C. (Radio Hypnotic Intra-Cerebral Control)

RHIC techniques call for the implantation of a micro-sized electronic

radio receiver. The implantation most frequently is made by highly

trained teams within the Intelligence community. The procedure involves

the insertion of the micro-receiver (or transceiver) into the desired

areas such as the frontal lobe or temporal lobe of the subject in question.

The device acts as a stimulator which can stimulate a muscle, nerve or

brain frequency upon receiveing the proper signal and will then initiate

a desired response. The receiver generates sensory impulses which are

then received through afferent nerves. These register as sensations which

are the basis for perception.

Under projects such as MK DRACO and HATTER, today's receivers are much

smaller than the originals. Several types of "encephalators" are used

to implant the devices into brain tissue through the nostril of a sedated

subject after hallucinatory programming has commenced.

The process is painful and, in some cases, may result in permanent

damage to the sinal cavity resulting in later ear, nose and throat

problems for the subject in question. Another method used by some

programs is the use of oral encephalator to insert the transceiver

or receiver through the soft palette of the mouth into the brain tissue.

This method is also conducted in concert with hallucinatory program

cues.

Another type of RHIC technology which is currently being utilized is a

more sophisticated manipulation which utilizes a Personal Radio and

Electro-Magnetic Frequency Allocation, better known in some intelligence

circles as a "Primary" or "Prema". This is obtained by a simple "Scan"

involving the acquisition of an individual's actual frequency allocation

which are as unique to an individual as RNA/DNA codes. Primary Frequency

Scanners are today so advanced that the machinery can fit into a normal

sized briefcase. The scanning or Reading Wand -- easily disguised in the

confines of a pen or a room's light fixture -- is placed in the desired

location to achieve a "reading".

Once the PRIME FREQUENCY or "PRIME FREAK" is obtained, procedures may be

intriduced which will affect only the individual in question.

This is obtained through direct manipulation of this individual's

Primary Frequency Allocation.

Concerned Special Intelligence Operations personnel should acquaint

themselves with PROJECT HIGH TONE and PROJECT XENO. Personnel in

OM level Special Projects Operations are already aware of the Human

Frequency operations and testing procedures which proved to be a great

success on large population base capacities in Los Angeles, Calif.

in April 1992.

This is implant territory which John Case (Jim Hougan) has explored in a fictional fashion in his novel "Trance State". But it's also related to the following, inevitably speculative, threads:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=12949

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=13103

Jan,

during my research of this, I did find a couple of books which strongly linked radionics and the type of thing Coyle is referring to.

I haven't read the Lincoln Lawrence book, so can't comment on that.

There is more of a similar nature to come, with James Earl Ray at the center... along with the delicate scent of the CIA not far away.

[Michael Hogan]

The woman was not calling anyone - nor attempting to. The phone and the ability to dial numbers was part of a magic ritual - possibly - or even probably - a radionics ritual. My bet? She was a Rosicrucian attempting to ensure the success of the assassination (yes, imo, she had foreknowledge. The alternative being that she had no foreknowledge - but her spell actually worked). This would lead to the JFK era going up in smoke (along with the hated courts and their civil rights) and being replaced by a government which would take over "everything".

The Oxnard Riddle Explained

Greg,

In your article The Oxnard Riddle Explained you state: "Rosicrucians (AMORC) are among a number of groups who practice and teach radionics." (Citation: Rosicrucian (AMORC) Digest, 1943)

Can you offer any more evidence to support the above statement?

Do you maintain that AMORC practices and teaches radionics as described and defined by Ellis Peterson?

Michael,

I never said they practice and teach it as described and defined by Ellis Peterson - only that Peterson is an expert in the field of radionics. To me, he comes across as kind of an Arthur Young type, in that he has a solid scientific background.

What is your point with this question?

Do you dispute this lady was performing some kind of ritual, or only my best guess that she was a Rosicrucian?

Here is one link which may go some way to answering your question.

http://www.lifetechnology.org/rosicrucian.php

Alternatively, you can use various groupings of these keywords to see what your favored search engine throws out:

radionics - psionics - Rosicrucians - amorc

(psionics is the more modern term for radionics)

Greg,

My point is: What is the basis for your claim that AMORC practices and teaches radionics? And what is your definition of radionics as it applies to AMORC?

The link you provided does not answer those questions. I spent an hour reading the AMORC websites, the website of Ellis Peterson, and various other Googled entries for radionics before I posted my questions to you.

Why not provide the documentation for your claim that AMORC practices and teaches radionics rather than suggest I search and find it?

Edited July 14, 2008 by Michael Hogan

[Greg Parker]

The woman was not calling anyone - nor attempting to. The phone and the ability to dial numbers was part of a magic ritual - possibly - or even probably - a radionics ritual. My bet? She was a Rosicrucian attempting to ensure the success of the assassination (yes, imo, she had foreknowledge. The alternative being that she had no foreknowledge - but her spell actually worked). This would lead to the JFK era going up in smoke (along with the hated courts and their civil rights) and being replaced by a government which would take over "everything".

The Oxnard Riddle Explained

Greg,

In your article The Oxnard Riddle Explained you state: "Rosicrucians (AMORC) are among a number of groups who practice and teach radionics." (Citation: Rosicrucian (AMORC) Digest, 1943)

Can you offer any more evidence to support the above statement?

Do you maintain that AMORC practices and teaches radionics as described and defined by Ellis Peterson?

Michael,

I never said they practice and teach it as described and defined by Ellis Peterson - only that Peterson is an expert in the field of radionics. To me, he comes across as kind of an Arthur Young type, in that he has a solid scientific background.

What is your point with this question?

Do you dispute this lady was performing some kind of ritual, or only my best guess that she was a Rosicrucian?

Here is one link which may go some way to answering your question.

http://www.lifetechnology.org/rosicrucian.php

Alternatively, you can use various groupings of these keywords to see what your favored search engine throws out:

radionics - psionics - Rosicrucians - amorc

(psionics is the more modern term for radionics)

Greg,

My point is: What is the basis for your claim that AMORC practices and teaches radionics? And what is your definition of radionics as it applies to AMORC?

The link you provided does not answer those questions. I spent an hour reading the AMORC websites, the website of Ellis Peterson, and various other Googled entries for radionics before I posted my questions to you.

Why not provide the documentation for your claim that AMORC practices and teaches radionics rather than suggest I search and find it?

Michael,

for the sake of argument, let's say I got that wrong and AMORC does not practice or teach radionics or anything similar.

Is that the most important aspect of what I wrote? Does it diminish in any way, the analysis that the lady was not a mental case, but was actually conducting some type of ritual?

As it happens, it took me literally two seconds to re find this (it was in fact one the sites I'd found originally, but cited only what looked like the best reference):

http://www.hscti.com/rosecrucian-order_AMORC.htm

Go after me and/or my research by all means, but don't let your animus toward me lead to actively seeking any flaw you can. Some just aren't that important. And others are only in the mind of the reader...