Thomas Graves Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 (edited) Hello James According to the testimony of Dr. Robert Shaw, the bullet impacted Connally at the mid axillary line, or the midpoint between back and front of the thorax, making a burrowing wound that followed the 5th rib and then exited under his right nipple. This clearly shows a bullet path travelling at an angle of right to left in relation to Connally's thorax. If Connally was hit at z230/231, while he was facing forward, this bullet would have to be following a path that well to the right of JFK in order to inflict such a wound on Connally. In order for Connally to have received such a wound from a bullet originating from behind the limo, he would have to be turned to his right. What makes you believe the bullet was sideways when it struck Connally? Do you believe the bullet was tumbling when it hit Connally? Robert, I do not have my notes with me as I am busy on another topic. If I remember correctly, the exit wound was just below the right nipple. The exit would was created by two missiles: the bone fragments and the bullet. The image of Connally's short shows the bullet damage to the right of Connally's right nipple. The bullet certainly exited through the wound but it was towards the right edge of the wound --- as demonstrated by the shirt damage. If your second point is suggesting that JFK and Connally were not wounded at the same time: that is exactly my point. No Connally did not need to be turned to the right when he was wounded. The angle from the 6th floor west window was sufficient for that trajectory angle. Robert Shaw made it very clear the bullet was not tumbling: it is in his evidence. The muscles that link and join the ribs were not damage. Robert Shaw stated for that to happen the bullet had to be traveling in a direct line and not to be tumbling. Had these muscles been damaged then that would have indicated the bullet might have been tumbling. See Robert Shaw's press conference on the Saturday. He states very clearly that the bullet slapped into the rib and did not enter the chest cavity. James. Hello James According to the testimony of Dr. Robert Shaw, the bullet impacted Connally at the mid axillary line, or the midpoint between back and front of the thorax, making a burrowing wound that followed the 5th rib and then exited under his right nipple. This clearly shows a bullet path travelling at an angle of right to left in relation to Connally's thorax. If Connally was hit at z230/231, while he was facing forward, this bullet would have to be following a path that well to the right of JFK in order to inflict such a wound on Connally. In order for Connally to have received such a wound from a bullet originating from behind the limo, he would have to be turned to his right. What makes you believe the bullet was sideways when it struck Connally? Do you believe the bullet was tumbling when it hit Connally? Robert, I do not have my notes with me as I am busy on another topic. If I remember correctly, the exit wound was just below the right nipple. The exit would was created by two missiles: the bone fragments and the bullet. The image of Connally's short shows the bullet damage to the right of Connally's right nipple. The bullet certainly exited through the wound but it was towards the right edge of the wound --- as demonstrated by the shirt damage. If your second point is suggesting that JFK and Connally were not wounded at the same time: that is exactly my point. No Connally did not need to be turned to the right when he was wounded. The angle from the 6th floor west window was sufficient for that trajectory angle. Robert Shaw made it very clear the bullet was not tumbling: it is in his evidence. The muscles that link and join the ribs were not damage. Robert Shaw stated for that to happen the bullet had to be traveling in a direct line and not to be tumbling. Had these muscles been damaged then that would have indicated the bullet might have been tumbling. See Robert Shaw's press conference on the Saturday. He states very clearly that the bullet slapped into the rib and did not enter the chest cavity. James. I was just thinking that we "researchers" are fortunate that Connally survived the shooting because it means that, in addition to his later obviously being able to talk about the incident, his wounds were surgically repaired and medically treated and therefore (theoretically) documented. If he had died, who knows? Maybe there wouldn't even have been an autopsy! LOL --Tommy Edited September 22, 2014 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 Hello James I know that what I am saying is difficult to follow but I have just been able to figure it out myself, and the conclusions I have made are very definite. Unfortunately, I have never been able to c/p on this forum, and cannot use diagrams to support my argument, so I will attempt to explain it again. If you are looking at a person's back, the mid axillary line on the chest, or crease of the armpit, is on the extreme outside point of the ribcage. The 5th rib proceeds, from this point toward the front of the person, to the anterior (front) axillary line in an inward bound curve. The right nipple is even further toward the centre of the chest on this curve. If one had x-ray vision and could look through a person, one could see that, viewed from behind, the nipple would be well to the inside of the margin of the scapula, and well inside of the anterior axillary line; in fact, the nipple is just shy of the mid-clavicular line. If you look at an anatomical drawing of the ribcage and scapula, you will see it is not possible, looking from the back, to see the 5th rib, as the scapula entirely obscures it. If Connally was facing forward, and the bullet struck him at the mid axillary line, outside of the margin of the scapula, how did the bullet manage to come into contact with the 5th rib AND follow the 5th rib on a course to just below the right nipple? Would the bullet not be required to change course, once it got past the scapula? I explain this all much better at the Deep Politics Forum (JFK Assassination) on a thread called "Inexplicable Wounds made by Special Bullets". I have the advantage, on that forum, of actually being able to c/p diagrams and photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James R Gordon Posted September 22, 2014 Author Share Posted September 22, 2014 If Connally was facing forward, and the bullet struck him at the mid axillary line, outside of the margin of the scapula, how did the bullet manage to come into contact with the 5th rib AND follow the 5th rib on a course to just below the right nipple? Would the bullet not be required to change course, once it got past the scapula? There is your problem. You suggest the bullet followed the angle and course of the 5th rib. It did not do that. Robert Shaw stated that the bullet stuck Connally on the side. The purple area is the area of damage done to the 5th rib. The bullet did not continue down the trajectory of the rib. It continued down the line where it struck the rib. As previously pointed out on the forum when the bullet exited it created two holes. The red line indicates the likely exit point. The blue arrow the approximate position of the right nipple. Yes the exit wound was huge, but it was not the just the bullet that created the wound: it was the bone fragments and the bullet. The part of the wound close to the nipple was likely cased by the exiting bone fragments. You can still see some of their holes in the shirt. James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted September 22, 2014 Share Posted September 22, 2014 "Mr. Specter - What damage had been inflicted upon a rib, if any, Dr. Shaw? Dr. Shaw - About 10 centimeters of the fifth rib starting at the, about the mid-axillary line and going to the anterior axillary line, as we describe it, or that would be the midline at the armpit going to the anterior lateral portion of the chest had been stripped away by the missile." Please show me the testimony where Shaw states the exit wound was lateral to the right nipple and not under the right nipple. The bullet followed the rib for 10 centimeters (4 inches), stripping the bone away as it passed through. Considering the depth of the average human thorax, your purple line appears to be quite a bit shorter than this. Plus, the bullet travelled through flesh before exiting under the right nipple, making the actual wound track even longer. As there is still some distance from the anterior axillary line to the nipple, and Dr. Shaw testified the bullet exited under the right nipple, I think it fair to say the bullet travelled at a right to left angle from the mid-axillary line to under the right nipple. Having the bullet exit even close to the right nipple requires it to be travelling on a right to left course from the mid-axillary line; a course that would not have been possible had JBC been facing forward and the bullet fired from behind him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) If CONNALLY was wounded where you believe he was wounded why is posted supporting evidence questionable? PHYLLIS HALL, Parkland Nurse claimed CONNALLY was in so much pain that he 'screamed' when taking a breath, how did CONNALLY cry out 'there're going to kill us all" ? Please explain why CONNALLY turned 90 degrees to his right after being severely wounded, that is an incredible amount of recoil. Please explain how CONNALLY and MRS CONNALLY spring from laying back in their seats to face forward in 1/2 of 1 second following Z-313. Please explain why CONNALLY and MRS CONNALLY fail to mention this in their testimony. If the WC moved the wounds on the President why would they not move the wounds on CONNALLY in order to support their lies? Edited September 23, 2014 by Robert Mady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 I can tell you why the Connally's "spring" forward in their seats following z313. It is not just the shot in Connally's back, as this would not make Nellie spring forward. Greer has slammed on the brakes, and he and Kellerman are "springing" forward, as well. What you should really be questioning is why 4 out of 6 limo occupants are springing forward at this moment, while Jackie and JFK remain unaffected. Why would they not move Connally's wounds? Simple. He lived for many years after 22.11.63, and they simply couldn't bury this evidence, as they did with JFK. Wounds leave scars, and there was always the chance someone would look at his. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) James Gordon MRS CONNALLY:WC: ...Now, I did hear the Secret Service man say, "Pull out of the motorcade. Take us to the nearest hospital," and then we took out very rapidly to the hospital.Just before we got to Parkland, we made a right-hand turn, he must have been going very fast, because as he turned the weight of my husband's body almost toppled us both. Interesting that this 'toppling' occurs while the limo was on Elm street, specifically following frame Z-325. It appears James that you have assumed the CONNALLYS claims to actually be truthful. Edited September 23, 2014 by Robert Mady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Robert, please post images of CONNALLY displaying his wounds on this back and chest and put an end to this line of inquiry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James R Gordon Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 Fellow members I am too busy on another topic to devote myself to this argument. May I point out that if you want the authority on what happened to John Connally then refer yourself to Gary Murr's trilogy on the wounding of John Connally. It is authority beyond dispute. Nobody, on this forum including myself, have anything like the knowledge that Gary has accumulated. His understanding of this matter dwarfs us all. Below are a sample of videos that attempt to put the record straight. I tried to put together a post but was prohibited because of the number of images. I'll reformat it as a interactive PDF that members can download. Basic points:- Did the bullet enter John Connally's thorax. No!!! See Robert Shaw's news conference on saturday 23rd How could John Connally turn after being wounded. Answer initially he felt no pain. See 1964 News Conference What happens to John Connally and Nellie Connally after Z290 - 320? Nellie pulls John Connally overn onto her lap and places her body over him. See my Canterbury presentation linked already on this thread. I will put this together as a Interactive PDF and post it. James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) The only reason the CONNALLYS are sticking to their story is that CONNALLY in his testimony to the Nation from his bed in Parkland Hospital, CONNALLY specifically made claims based on the initial story the government intended to use, three shots three hits, MRS CONNALLY stood by his side in agreement. After TAGUE became a real issue the story had to be altered, CONNALLYS were stuck, they already told the Nation the first official story, they had to stick with it with as many modifications as they felt they could get away with, such as both of them seeing the President wounded first, to CONNALLY absolutely not seeing the President and MRS CONNALLY sticking to her claim. Edited September 23, 2014 by Robert Mady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) Gordon "What happens to John Connally and Nellie Connally after Z290 - 320? Nellie pulls John Connally overn onto her lap and places her body over him. See my Canterbury presentation linked already on this thread." Evidently you have never viewed the ZAPRUDER film, because, NEILLIE CONNALLY does not release the bouquet of yellow flowers clutched in her left fist, nor can she be detected to make any movement to pull or assist CONNALLY to lay back on top of her. NELLIE CONNALLY for the most part does not even pay any attention to CONNALLY until he is laying on top of her. If CONNALLY is stunned and laying on top of NELLIE how did she manage to move him to a crouched facing forward position by Z-325? Why is this not mentioned in testimony? For CONNALLY to say 'there're going to kill us all' is impossible as a man running with one leg. CONNALLYS lung had collapsed, he was fortunate if he could take a breath. You must be working with a delusion of what happened because what you claim is not observable in the ZAPRUDER film. Edited September 23, 2014 by Robert Mady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James R Gordon Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 Robert, There is a difference between assertion and fact. I have read Gary Murr's trilogy, it is clear you have not. The authority and meticulous documentation of this work - whose footnotes run to hundred's of detailed references - throw those thoughts into the stratosphere. In addition, I am one of the very few people who has a copy of the entire John Connally medical record from Parkland. That record makes clear how and where John Connally was wounded and where he was not wounded - irrespective of the plethera of unsubstantiated theories. That said, you are absolutely correct in pointing out that there are serious inconsistencies in the Connally's record. They are not at all consistent. There is even the point, that both are on record in testimony stating that when they heard the head shot John Connally was lying on Nellie's lap. That did not take place till after Z 315/7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James R Gordon Posted September 23, 2014 Author Share Posted September 23, 2014 Robert Mady:- If CONNALLY is stunned and laying on top of NELLIE how did she manage to move him to a crouched facing forward position by Z-325? Why is this not mentioned in testimony? It is mentioned in testimony by both John Connally and Nellie Connally to the WC as well as the HCSA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) You want to know the truth, here is the truth in CONNALLYS own words, CONNALLY looses consciousness when he is shot. CONNALLY: WC : At about that time, we began to pull out of the cavalcade, out of the line, and I lost consciousness and didn't regain consciousness until we got to the hospital. This is EXACTLY when CONNALLY is shot, this is exactly when he looses consciousness, after Z-325, after he is driven down and to his left in response to a missile passing through his body, wrist and into his leg. Read the testimony, you don't even have make to guess. Even their lies have bits of truth still clinging on. Edited September 23, 2014 by Robert Mady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Mady Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 James Gordon, look at CONNALLY does he appear to be stunned after supposedly being shot, he has the presence of mind to turn his body 90 degrees, he peers into the back seat and is likely conversing with JACKIE, he turns his head then calmly, carefully and UNASSISTED, lays back on top of NELLIE CONNALLY, who surprisingly had repositioned herself which allowed CONNALLY to lay back, how did CONNALLY even know he had the space to lay back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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