There Was No Bullet Wound in John F. Kennedy's Throat

[Robert Prudhomme]

I just noticed something about John Lattimer's "test" bullet, seen below:

Lattimer is asking us to believe this bullet was fired from a rifle and, due to deformation of the bullet, has extruded a certain amount of lead out the base of the bullet.

If this bullet was fired from a rifle, where are the rifling marks on the bullet? How stupid does he think we are?

It is also interesting to note that, while this amount of lead has extruded from the base of his test bullet, it is still attached to the rest of the bullet's core. In other words, much more lead than this must extrude before the extruded portion begins to separate from the rest of the core.

CE 399 shows no lead extruding from its base, meaning either 1) not enough deformation of CE 399 took place to cause an extrusion of lead or 2) enough lead had extruded to allow external forces to separate the extrusion from the core, and the separation took place just inside the base of the bullet jacket.

If the latter is true, it is not difficult to figure out that much more than 2 grains of lead had to have extruded and separated from the base of CE 399.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Robert Prudhomme

[Paul Trejo]

Hi Paul

Yup, pretty close. The only thing I might disagree with is the rifle that fired CE 399 not being able to fire a frangible bullet. Of course, though, three times in six seconds is something entirely different.

I've always believed the FMJ cartridge left in the chamber of C2766 was left there just to help us assume that all the fired bullets were FMJ, too...

Robert,

This suggests to me that C2766 (CE 139) which was allegedly LHO's rifle -- surely could have fired both FMJ and frangible bullets.

That suggests, also, that any Mannlicher-Carcano rifle could have done the same.

I am reminded here of Robert Morrow's book, First Hand Knowledge (1992) in which he claims that in the summer of 1963, CIA Agent Tracy Barnes personally asked Morrow to customize four Mannlicher-Carcano rifles to be quickly disassembled and reassembled, and deliver these to David Ferrie in New Orleans.

Morrow did this, and then after the JFK assassination, Morrow heard David Ferrie boasting about his "big game" hunting. Robert Morrow said he was always impressed by the intellect of David Ferrie, and he personally became convinced that David Ferrie was the mastermind of the JFK assassination -- that is, that even Guy Banister reported to David Ferrie.

Well, that only goes to show that people typically see only what is closest to them. Since Tracy Barnes was CIA, Robert Morrow presumed that David Ferrie was also CIA -- and this guided Robert Morrow's hasty conclusions toward a CIA-did-it scenario.

More likely, IMHO, Tracy Barnes was involved in a plot to assassinate Fidel Castro, and so was David Ferrie -- at first. Then David Ferrie was drafted into a JFK plot, known only to civilians in New Orleans, Miami and Dallas (as well as to CIA rogues, David Morales and Howard Hunt, who both confessed). Lee Harvey Oswald -- originally involved in the plot to assassinate Fidel Castro, got caught in the crossfire as a Patsy.

Getting back to the main point about the four Mannlicher-Carcano rifles. All of them would be able to fire both FMJ and frangible bullets.

Finally, getting back to the theme of this thread -- the hole in JFK's throat noticed by so many Parkland Hospital staff, as well as the horizontal nick in the knot of the necktie worn by JFK, is well-explained as coming from a fragment of a frangible bullet, from the inside out -- which possibly dented the windshield after that point, and was later found in the front seat of the JFK limo.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited October 15, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Robert Prudhomme]

Hi Paul

Yup, pretty close. The only thing I might disagree with is the rifle that fired CE 399 not being able to fire a frangible bullet. Of course, though, three times in six seconds is something entirely different.

I've always believed the FMJ cartridge left in the chamber of C2766 was left there just to help us assume that all the fired bullets were FMJ, too...

Robert,

This suggests to me that C2766 (CE 139) which was allegedly LHO's rifle -- surely could have fired both FMJ and frangible bullets.

That suggests, also, that any Mannlicher-Carcano rifle could have done the same.

I am reminded here of Robert Morrow's book, First Hand Knowledge (1992) in which he claims that in the summer of 1963, CIA Agent Tracy Barnes personally asked Morrow to customize four Mannlicher-Carcano rifles to be quickly disassembled and reassembled, and deliver these to David Ferrie in New Orleans.

Morrow did this, and then after the JFK assassination, Morrow heard David Ferrie boasting about his "big game" hunting. Robert Morrow said he was always impressed by the intellect of David Ferrie, and he personally became convinced that David Ferrie was the mastermind of the JFK assassination -- that is, that even Guy Banister reported to David Ferrie.

Well, that only goes to show that people typically see only what is closest to them. Since Tracy Barnes was CIA, Robert Morrow presumed that David Ferrie was also CIA -- and this guided Robert Morrow's hasty conclusions toward a CIA-did-it scenario.

More likely, IMHO, Tracy Barnes was involved in a plot to assassinate Fidel Castro, and so was David Ferrie -- at first. Then David Ferrie was drafted into a JFK plot, known only to civilians in New Orleans, Miami and Dallas (as well as to CIA rogues, David Morales and Howard Hunt, who both confessed). Lee Harvey Oswald -- originally involved in the plot to assassinate Fidel Castro, got caught in the crossfire as a Patsy.

Getting back to the main point about the four Mannlicher-Carcano rifles. All of them would be able to fire both FMJ and frangible bullets.

Finally, getting back to the theme of this thread -- the hole in JFK's throat noticed by so many Parkland Hospital staff, as well as the horizontal nick in the knot of the necktie worn by JFK, is well-explained as coming from a fragment of a frangible bullet, from the inside out -- which possibly dented the windshield after that point, and was later found in the front seat of the JFK limo.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Hi Paul

Considering that the evidence so far seems to point toward whatever exited JFK's throat travelling on a downward angle, as it passed through his neck, it is a bit of a stretch to imagine this projectile managing to dent the top of the windshield frame; or ending up on the front seat of the limo.

[Paul Trejo]

Hi Paul

Considering that the evidence so far seems to point toward whatever exited JFK's throat travelling on a downward angle, as it passed through his neck, it is a bit of a stretch to imagine this projectile managing to dent the top of the windshield frame; or ending up on the front seat of the limo.

Robert,

Yes, I considered that -- however I'm at a loss to explain those two fragments found in the front area of the JFK limo, since they were too large (3 grains) to be part of the magic bullet (CE 399) losses (2 grains) not even counting the fragments in the Governor's wrist and remaining in this left thigh.

At the same time, whatever dented the windshield on the driver's side and the windshield chrome on the passenger side could not have been whole bullets, since those would have punctured clean holes and flew for another mile. So they had to be fragments.

But fragments of WHAT? That's the question. These JFK limo fragments provide a logical clue for puzzle solvers.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited October 19, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Robert Prudhomme]

"At the same time, whatever dented the windshield on the driver's side and the windshield chrome on the passenger side could not have been whole bullets, since those would have punctured clean holes and flew for another mile. So they had to be fragments."

You're still thinking in terms of conventional bullets. The dent in the chrome on top of the windshield frame might be exactly what we would expect to see if an early version of a frangible bullet had struck it. Remember, one of the selling points of early frangible bullets (and modern frangible bullets), such as the Glaser Safety Bullet, was these bullets did not cause collateral damage, as they would break up when they struck an extremely hard surface.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glaser_Safety_Slug

While the Glaser Safety Slug will disintegrate when it hits steel, stone or concrete, it will still impact these items at speed, and I imagine the blue polymer ball in the tip of the bullet, which does not disintegrate, would be capable of putting a dent in the chrome above the windshield.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Robert Prudhomme

[Paul Trejo]

"At the same time, whatever dented the windshield on the driver's side and the windshield chrome on the passenger side could not have been whole bullets, since those would have punctured clean holes and flew for another mile. So they had to be fragments."

You're still thinking in terms of conventional bullets. The dent in the chrome on top of the windshield frame might be exactly what we would expect to see if an early version of a frangible bullet had struck it. Remember, one of the selling points of early frangible bullets (and modern frangible bullets), such as the Glaser Safety Bullet, was these bullets did not cause collateral damage, as they would break up when they struck an extremely hard surface.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glaser_Safety_Slug

While the Glaser Safety Slug will disintegrate when it hits steel, stone or concrete, it will still impact these items at speed, and I imagine the blue polymer ball in the tip of the bullet, which does not disintegrate, would be capable of putting a dent in the chrome above the windshield.

Robert,

I'm very impressed with this scientific approach. I was, indeed, repeating the arguments of the FBI experts who testified to the Warren Commission.

But this raises a very important question, IMHO, namely: if frangible bullets caused the damage to the windshield and passenger side chrome above the windshield -- then clearly there were more than four bullets fired into the JFK limo -- isn't that implied in your scenario?

May I ask -- and I realize this can only be preliminary -- what is your rough estimate of how many frangible (and other bullets) would account for all the wounds and damage and fragments found?

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited October 19, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Robert Prudhomme]

"At the same time, whatever dented the windshield on the driver's side and the windshield chrome on the passenger side could not have been whole bullets, since those would have punctured clean holes and flew for another mile. So they had to be fragments."

You're still thinking in terms of conventional bullets. The dent in the chrome on top of the windshield frame might be exactly what we would expect to see if an early version of a frangible bullet had struck it. Remember, one of the selling points of early frangible bullets (and modern frangible bullets), such as the Glaser Safety Bullet, was these bullets did not cause collateral damage, as they would break up when they struck an extremely hard surface.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glaser_Safety_Slug

While the Glaser Safety Slug will disintegrate when it hits steel, stone or concrete, it will still impact these items at speed, and I imagine the blue polymer ball in the tip of the bullet, which does not disintegrate, would be capable of putting a dent in the chrome above the windshield.

Robert,

I'm very impressed with this scientific approach. I was, indeed, repeating the arguments of the FBI experts who testified to the Warren Commission.

But this raises a very important question, IMHO, namely: if frangible bullets caused the damage to the windshield and passenger side chrome above the windshield -- then clearly there were more than four bullets fired into the JFK limo -- isn't that implied in your scenario?

May I ask -- and I realize this can only be preliminary -- what is your rough estimate of how many frangible (and other bullets) would account for all the wounds and damage and fragments found?

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Hi Paul

That's the $64,000 question, isn't it?

So far, I count 3 bullets striking JFK (1 from in front and 2 from behind), 1 and possibly 2 bullets striking Connally, 1 striking the chrome frame top of the windshield and 1 striking the curb down by the Triple Underpass.

Let's see, that's 3 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 7 shots and, somehow, the majority of witnesses heard only 3 shots.

How did they pull it off? I believe it was a simple matter of controlling the evidence. How do we know how many bullets and fragments of bullets were found in JFK, Connally and the limo? We have relied entirely on the WC, the FBI and the Secret Service; and the evidence that was the body of JFK and the limo was removed from Dallas before a proper investigation was conducted, and any evidence produced after this occurrence was, to say the least, tainted.

So far, I have attempted to accommodate the WC by making all of my theories fit into a scenario where only high powered rifles were employed in the assassination; primarily 6.5mm Carcanos. However, if we assume the ballistic evidence not to be trustworthy, this opens the door to all manner of ballistic possibilities.

So let us say we are planning this assassination together. Failure is not an option, so common sense tells us we want as much firepower as possible to guarantee JFK is finished off, yet we don't want any of the shooters taking more than 1 or 2 shots, as this will allow witnesses to home in on the sources of these shots. We also don't want more than 2 or 3 shots to be heard if we are planning to blame this on one shooter armed with a bolt action rifle, as there are physical limits to how many shots he could get off.

Once again, the answer lies in a device for a firearm known as a "silencer" or a "suppressor", except I neglected to tell you the whole story when I discussed them previously.

I've already discussed how suppressed rifles shooting bullets at supersonic velocities could be employed to make witnesses believe shots were originating from the opposite direction of their true origin. Perhaps I should go over this again, and then discuss how suppressed weapons shooting subsonic bullets could be used at the same time.

While I am writing the next post, here is a video about the deLisle carbine that Chris Newton has spoken of several times, designed and built in WW II as a silenced commando weapon. Using the action of a .303 Lee Enfield rifle, it shoots a .45 ACP pistol bullet at subsonic velocities.

Edited October 21, 2016 by Robert Prudhomme

[Paul Trejo]

Hi Paul

That's the $64,000 question, isn't it?

So far, I count 3 bullets striking JFK (1 from in front and 2 from behind), 1 and possibly 2 bullets striking Connally, 1 striking the chrome frame top of the windshield and 1 striking the curb down by the Triple Underpass.

Let's see, that's 3 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 7 shots and, somehow, the majority of witnesses heard only 3 shots.

How did they pull it off? I believe it was a simple matter of controlling the evidence. How do we know how many bullets and fragments of bullets were found in JFK, Connally and the limo? We have relied entirely on the WC, the FBI and the Secret Service; and the evidence that was the body of JFK and the limo was removed from Dallas before a proper investigation was conducted, and any evidence produced after this occurrence was, to say the least, tainted.

So far, I have attempted to accommodate the WC by making all of my theories fit into a scenario where only high powered rifles were employed in the assassination; primarily 6.5mm Carcanos. However, if we assume the ballistic evidence not to be trustworthy, this opens the door to all manner of ballistic possibilities.

So let us say we are planning this assassination together. Failure is not an option, so common sense tells us we want as much firepower as possible to guarantee JFK is finished off, yet we don't want any of the shooters taking more than 1 or 2 shots, as this will allow witnesses to home in on the sources of these shots. We also don't want more than 2 or 3 shots to be heard if we are planning to blame this on one shooter armed with a bolt action rifle, as there are physical limits to how many shots he could get off.

Once again, the answer lies in a device for a firearm known as a "silencer" or a "suppressor", except I neglected to tell you the whole story when I discussed them previously....

Robert,

I fully agree that the common story of three bullets -- with the second two firing quickly next to each other -- was the most common story of the WC witnesses from Dealey Plaza -- although it was not the only story. One witness, Emmet Hudson, insisted there was one more shot after the JFK head shot, for example.

I think you're correct, however -- that it was all a matter of controlling the evidence -- and I think the Dallas Police were in the best position to control the witnesses themselves -- merely by selection.

Whether silencers were used is a scientific and technical point I'd like to learn more about. Yet IMHO the main impetus for this almost unanimous coordination of stories can be explained by the witnesses who were selected and the witnesses who were not selected.

The Dallas Police submitted those names. Also, there is something to be said for the force of social conformity.

Even among those who heard three shots -- where the last two were close together -- could not agree on whether the shots came from the DPD or from the Grassy Knoll area. Yet this was accepted -- it was debatable -- as long as most people agreed on three shots -- after all, the WC had only three shells they were willing to talk about.

Even the Dallas Sheriffs first ran as fast as they could to the Grassy Knoll area -- where they found only other Dallas Police officers, busy "searching" the area. All this was admitted by the WC -- but the consensus was clear -- three bullets -- three shots -- and the last two were closer together. Like a mantra.

In any case -- I'm very pleased to read your estimate of the number of shots -- 7 is your number. I find your number to have more rationale than the vast majority of counts I have ever read in the past quarter-century.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited October 22, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Robert Prudhomme]

Just a quick explanation on rifles equipped with silencers (suppressors) that shoot supersonic bullets (bullets travelling faster than the speed of sound.

While these devices will reduce the muzzle blast of a rifle, they will not completely eliminate it. Even the deLisle carbine seen in the video in my last post, arguably one of the quietest weapons in history, still registers a muzzle blast of 85 decibels.

What is most noticeable about a suppressed high powered rifle is the supersonic "crack" of its bullet breaking the sound barrier as it travels to its target.

Contrary to popular belief, the bullet will not make just one sonic boom as it first passes through the sound barrier. It actually makes one continuous sonic boom the entire time it is breaking the sound barrier. If this bullet travels 300 yards before hitting something, and stays above the speed of sound the entire trip, it will make a sonic boom that every ear witness along the entire 300 yard course of the bullet will hear as being right beside him.

This is why the Deputy Sheriffs all ran down to the Grassy Knoll, despite the obvious fact that at least two, and possibly more, of the bullets originated from behind the limo. If the muzzle blast of a rifle is sufficiently suppressed, the greatest amount of noise (and the longest lasting noise) will be the sonic boom made by the bullet. As this bullet passes various vertical objects, such as buildings, it will reflect off these objects as echoes. Many of these echoes will return toward the origin of the shots. The closest echoes will return first, followed by echoes originating slightly further out and so on; giving the ear witnesses a progressive series of echoes appearing to be coming from the Grassy Knoll and deceiving the ear witnesses into believing this was the origin of all of the shots.

It does not work quite as efficiently as I have described, although tactical planners rely on suppressors to deceive ear witnesses by from 90° to 180°.

[Chris Newton]

Hey Robert.

Thanks for bringing this up. In addition to the above explanation there are also "Flash Suppressors" that function to reduce or eliminate the muzzle flash but have no effect on noise.

The Delisle Carbine has no muzzle flash at all and can be fired in total darkness without exposing the location of the shooter. A small number of OSS Delisles were a paratrooper model (for the Jedburghs) with a folding stock. Two of the reasons I chose this weapon as a candidate for the Knoll weapon were because it had been used for assassinating Nazi Officers and they were in OSS inventory at the end of WW2 (and therefore probably in CIA inventory later on).

Edited October 23, 2016 by Chris Newton

[Ray Mitcham]

A.J. Millican

2650 Valley View Lane

Dallas 34, Texas

Chapel 7-4953

Works for Sam P. Wallace and Claude Beard Plumbing Company

Fabricating pipe for the Republic Bank Building at the end of the Katy Railroad yards and the west end of Pacific Street

"I was standing on the North side of Elm Street, about half way between Houston and the Underpass. About five or ten minutes before the President came by I observed a truck from Honest Joe's Pawn Shop, and parked by the Book Depository Store. Then drove off about five or ten minutes before the Presiden't car came by. Just after the President's car passed, I heard three shots come from up toward Houston and Elm right by the Book Depository Building, and then immediately I heard two more shots from the Arcade between the Book Store and the Underpass, and then three more shots came from the same direction only sounded further back. It sounded approximately like a 45 automatic, or a high powered rifle. Then everybody started running up the hill. A man standing on the South side of Elm Street, was either hit in the foot, or the ankle and fell down. And then I went back to work."

J.C.Price.

"There was a volley of shots, and then much later, maybe as much as five minutes [sic! seconds] later, another one. I saw one man run towards the passenger cars on the railroad siding after the volley of shots. This man had a white dress shirt, no tie and kahki [sic] colored trousers. His hair appeared to be long and dark and his agility running could be about 35 yrs [sic] of age. He had something in his hand. I couldn't be sure but it may have been a head piece."

[Paul Trejo]

On ‎10‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 8:55 AM, Ray Mitcham said:

A.J. Millican

2650 Valley View Lane

Dallas 34, Texas

Chapel 7-4953

Works for Sam P. Wallace and Claude Beard Plumbing Company

Fabricating pipe for the Republic Bank Building at the end of the Katy Railroad yards and the west end of Pacific Street

"I was standing on the North side of Elm Street, about half way between Houston and the Underpass. About five or ten minutes before the President came by I observed a truck from Honest Joe's Pawn Shop, and parked by the Book Depository Store. Then drove off about five or ten minutes before the Presiden't car came by. Just after the President's car passed, I heard three shots come from up toward Houston and Elm right by the Book Depository Building, and then immediately I heard two more shots from the Arcade between the Book Store and the Underpass, and then three more shots came from the same direction only sounded further back. It sounded approximately like a 45 automatic, or a high powered rifle. Then everybody started running up the hill. A man standing on the South side of Elm Street, was either hit in the foot, or the ankle and fell down. And then I went back to work."

J.C.Price.

"There was a volley of shots, and then much later, maybe as much as five minutes [sic! seconds] later, another one. I saw one man run towards the passenger cars on the railroad siding after the volley of shots. This man had a white dress shirt, no tie and kahki [sic] colored trousers. His hair appeared to be long and dark and his agility running could be about 35 yrs [sic] of age. He had something in his hand. I couldn't be sure but it may have been a head piece."

Ray,

That is a fine illustration of the fact that there were some WC witnesses who go along with the crowd regarding the number of shots fired into the JFK limo. There are others. Here, for example, is Emmett Hudson:

-------------- BEGIN EXTRACT OF WC TESTIMONY OF EMMETT HUDSON -- 7/22/1964 -------

Mr. LIEBELER - How many shots did you hear altogether?

Mr. HUDSON - Three.

Mr. LIEBELER - Three shots?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - Are you sure about that?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - You say that it was the second shot that hit him in the head; is that right?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; I do believe that - I know it was.

Mr. LIEBELER - You saw him hit in the head, there wasn't any question in your mind about that, was there?

Mr. HUDSON - No, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - And after you saw him hit in the head, did you here another shot?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you see that shot hit anything - the third shot?

Mr. HUDSON - No, sir. I'll tell you - this young fellow that was sitting there with me - standing there with me at the present time, he says, "lay down, Mister, somebody is shooting the President." He says, "Lay down, lay down." and he kept repeating, "Lay down." so he was already laying down one way on the sidewalk, so I just laid down over on the ground and resting my arm on the ground and when that third shot rung out and when I was close to the ground - you could tell the shot was coming from above and kind of behind.

 

-------------- END EXTRACT OF WC TESTIMONY OF EMMETT HUDSON -- 7/22/1964 -------

 

So, Emmett Hudson insisted he heard one more shot after the JFK head shot. By the way -- Emmett Hudson had a great position -- he was standing on the concrete steps of the Grassy Knoll at the moment of the shots, and he was standing directly to the side of JFK when JFK was shot in the head. Very few people saw JFK that closely at that moment.

 

 

By the way -- it is common to misinterpret Hudson to say that he heard 3 shots coming from the TSBD. That's not what he said. Attorney Liebeler kept trying to force those words into his mouth, but that's not exactly what Emmett Hudson said.

 

 

Think about Hudson's position on the concrete steps -- this means that Abraham Zapruder himself was standing to the rear and above JFK at that moment. In fact, the entire Grassy Knoll arcade was situated to the rear and above JFK at that moment.

 

 

All Emmett Hudson said was that the shots were "coming from above and kind of behind' JFK. It was attorney Liebeler who kept forcing in the words, "from the TSBD."

 

 

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited November 10, 2016 by Paul Trejo
format

[Michael Clark]

On 10/23/2016 at 11:58 AM, Paul Trejo said:

Ray,

That is a fine illustration of the fact that there were some WC witnesses who go along with the crowd regarding the number of shots fired into the JFK limo. There are others. Here, for example, is Emmett Hudson:

-------------- BEGIN EXTRACT OF WC TESTIMONY OF EMMETT HUDSON -- 7/22/1964 -------

Mr. LIEBELER - How many shots did you hear altogether?

Mr. HUDSON - Three.

Mr. LIEBELER - Three shots?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - Are you sure about that?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - You say that it was the second shot that hit him in the head; is that right?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes; I do believe that - I know it was.

Mr. LIEBELER - You saw him hit in the head, there wasn't any question in your mind about that, was there?

Mr. HUDSON - No, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - And after you saw him hit in the head, did you here another shot?

Mr. HUDSON - Yes, sir.

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you see that shot hit anything - the third shot?

Mr. HUDSON - No, sir. I'll tell you - this young fellow that was sitting there with me - standing there with me at the present time, he says, "lay down, Mister, somebody is shooting the President." He says, "Lay down, lay down." and he kept repeating, "Lay down." so he was already laying down one way on the sidewalk, so I just laid down over on the ground and resting my arm on the ground and when that third shot rung out and when I was close to the ground - you could tell the shot was coming from above and kind of behind.

 

-------------- END EXTRACT OF WC TESTIMONY OF EMMETT HUDSON -- 7/22/1964 -------

 

So, Emmett Hudson insisted he heard one more shot after the JFK head shot. By the way -- Emmett Hudson had a great position -- he was standing on the concrete steps of the Grassy Knoll at the moment of the shots, and he was standing directly to the side of JFK when JFK was shot in the head. Very few people saw JFK that closely at that moment.

 

 

By the way -- it is common to misinterpret Hudson to say that he heard 3 shots coming from the TSBD. That's not what he said. Attorney Liebeler kept trying to force those words into his mouth, but that's not exactly what Emmett Hudson said.

 

 

Think about Hudson's position on the concrete steps -- this means that Abraham Zapruder himself was standing to the rear and above JFK at that moment. In fact, the entire Grassy Knoll arcade was situated to the rear and above JFK at that moment.

 

 

All Emmett Hudson said was that the shots were "coming from above and kind of behind' JFK. It was attorney Liebeler who kept forcing in the words, "from the TSBD."

 

 

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Emmet Hudson is probably the last WC witness whose testimony one should use when making an argument....

LIEBELER - You didn't see him get hit by any of the shots?
Mr. HUDSON - No, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER - You are assuming that maybe he got hit by the first shot and fell down in the car.
Mr. HUDSON - That's right.
Mr. LIEBELER - And you saw the President get hit by what you heard as the second shot?
Mr. HUDSON - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - How far apart were the shots spaced; do you have any recollection about that, how long did it take for all the shots to be fired and how far apart was one shot from the other?
Mr. HUDSON - Well they was pretty fast and not fast either. It seemed like he had plenty of time to operate his gun plenty well - when the shots were all fired.
Mr. LIEBELER - How much time do you think passed from the time the first shot was fired untill the second shot was fired, can you make any estimate about that?
Mr. HUDSON - Oh, probably 2 minutes.
Mr. LIEBELER - As much as 2 minutes?
Mr. HUDSON - It might not have been that long.
Mr. LIEBELER - But you thought he had plenty of time to get all of the shots off anyway?
Mr. HUDSON - Yes.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Michael Clark

[Michael Walton]

Agreed. Michael C. As a matter of fact, there is some outrageously bad witness testimony throughout this case. I chalk it up to the event happening so quickly and when no one was expecting it, that these people were just not aware enough of what was going on around them.

[Michael Clark]

2 hours ago, Michael Walton said:

Agreed. Michael C. As a matter of fact, there is some outrageously bad witness testimony throughout this case. I chalk it up to the event happening so quickly and when no one was expecting it, that these people were just not aware enough of what was going on around them.

The Image of the three guys on the steps is iconic to me. There is the old guy, lowest on the stairs, who looks so dreadfully horrified that I feel so bad for him. Then there is the guy, with a leg up, trying to get the hell out of there. Then there is Hudson, standing there. I always projected some of my anger on him by thinking that he is looking-on with an expectant satisfaction, with foreknowledge, saying to himself: "Bingo! Got that SOB"! 

However, after reading his testimony, I get the feeling that he was just kind of dull-witted. Who knows, perhaps I have been duped. Why were those other two guys not examined, you would think they for certain heard the zing of a bullet fly over their shoulder.

But, I digress. 

I have to thank Ashton for this thread because it solved a problem for me; I could never understand how there could be, and saw so little evidence for, a shot from the front (as distinguished from a GK shot).

Cheers,

Michael

 

Edited March 31, 2017 by Michael Clark