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The Paines


Tim Gratz

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I'm surprised that no one seems interested in how far back the ancestors of Michael Paine go and how firmly entrenched they are in the power structure. I dealt with that in some articles on my website.

http://www.minormusings.com/Drugs/Mask.html

THE FORBES CONNECTION

TO THE KILLING OF JFK

Ralph and Elise Cabot Forbes' daughter was Ruth Forbes, who first married the son of a minister, George Lyman Paine, and had one son named Michael Paine. Ruth's brother, William Cameron Forbes, was an American business executive and diplomat, born in Milton, Mass. in 1870, but spent much of his career in the Far East. He entered the mercantile house of his grandfather, John Murray Forbes, in Boston, becoming a partner there, after the end of Teddy Roosevelt's "splendid little war," in 1899.

Teddy appointed him in 1904 to the Philippine Commission, and he held several administrative posts in the islands before he served (1909-13) as governor-general and as a member of the Wood-Forbes Mission sent in 1921 by President Harding to the Philippines. Chairman in 1930 of a commission to study conditions in Haiti, he then went as ambassador to Japan during the Manchurian crisis, and in 1935 led an economic mission to East Asia.

Concurrently with these events, in 1902 Clarence Barron, representing Boston's powerful State Street, purchased Dow Jones & Company for $130,000. At the time of the purchase, Barron was publishing business bulletins in Boston and Philadelphia, which were merged into Dow Jones & Co. In 1907, the step-daughter of Clarence Barron, Jane Waldron Barron, married Hugh Bancroft, son of General William A. Bancroft (Harvard 1878), who was first elected mayor of Cambridge, Mass. in 1893 and reelected three times. He was chairman of the Brahmin-owned Boston Elevated Railway, and was a member of the Board of Overseers of Harvard University from 1893 to 1903. Hugh Bancroft also attended Harvard, where he was admitted to the elite Hasty Pudding Club. In 1912, Bancroft was made treasurer of Dow Jones, the holding company of the Journal. He became president in 1928, upon Clarence Barron's death. By that time, Bancroft and his family controlled the majority of Dow Jones & Company's shares. The Bancroft descendants have continued among the most significant shareholders of Dow Jones and the Wall Street Journal.

THE MYSTERIOUS MICHAEL PAINE

Michael Paine, sixth in descent from Robert Treat Paine, a signer of the Declaration of Independence, was also a great-great-grandson of Ralph Waldo Emerson. His mother's grandfather William Hathaway Forbes, was the first president of the American Bell Telephone Company after the company consolidated a number of local telephone networks. His son, Ralph Emerson Forbes, left an estate of $2.5 million in 1937, in which Ruth had a share. Ralph's brother, Ruth's "Uncle Cam," (Harvard 1892), had started his career as a clerk with Jackson & Curtis, before moving to work as a partner in John Murray Forbes & Co. He was elected a director of AT&T, United Fruit, and Stone & Webster, Inc. in order to look after the family's large holdings in those companies. He was also appointed to the Philippine Commission and as vice governor of the Islands until 1913. After that he was a receiver of a Brazilian railway, and a presidential appointee to "study conditions" in the Philippines and in Haiti. He served as an Overseer of Harvard during 1914-20, then became a life member of MIT Corporation. From 1930-32 he was Ambassador to Japan. [Who's Who in America, 1954-55].

Michael Paine was descended from the Cabots on both his father's and his mother's side; he was thus a second cousin once removed of Thomas Dudley Cabot and a cousin of Alexander Cochrane Forbes, who married a daughter of Warren Delano Robbins (FDR's cousin) and served as a director of United Fruit and trustee of Cabot, Cabot and Forbes.

Paul F.Hellmuth (among the first Catholic laymen to serve on the board of Notre Dame), and a vice-president of Cabot, Cabot and Forbes was a trustee of the J. Frederick Brown Foundation, a CIA "conduit", along with G.C. Cabot. Thus the Paine family [had] links with the blue-blood intelligence circles of the OSS and CIA, In the summer of 1963 it was Ruth (Michael's wife), rather than Michael Paine, who maintained close relations with the patrician Paine and Forbes families, traveling east in July to stay with her mother-in-law at the traditional Forbes clan retreat of Naushon Island near Wood's Hole, Massachusetts (CE 416, 17 H 119). [source: Peter Dale Scott, The Dallas Conspiracy, ch. IV, pp. 2-4, as quoted in websites linked above]. Hellmuth's name would appear in 1974 in Jack Anderson's column as the law partner of Richard Nixon's impeachment attorney, allegedly involved in an industrial security company that was "wholly owned" by the CIA and used to shred documents to maintain secrecy.

...

Mary Bancroft's first husband, Sherwin Badger, was a Harvard graduate whose first job had been in the head office of United Fruit in Cuba. After a year in Cuba he became a journalist in Boston, later moving to the Wall Street Journal and Barron's in New York, both of which were published by Mary's step-grandfather, Clarence Walker Barron. Mary also had a long friendship with the Trotsky follower, architect George Lyman Paine, and his wife Ruth Forbes Paine, whose son Michael Paine and his wife Ruth befriended Marina Oswald the year prior to John Kennedy's assassination.

Michael Paine's uncle, Eric Schroeder, was a friend and investment associate of geologist Everette DeGolyer, a long-time Dresser Industries director, who served on the Dresser board with Prescott Bush. Schroeder was a cousin of Alexander "Sandy" Forbes, former director of United Fruit who "belonged to the elite Tryall Golf Club retreat in Jamaica with ... Paul Raigorodsky." [source: Richard Bartholomew, "Possible Discovery," p. 38. See also Mary Bancroft, Autobiography of a Spy (New York: William Morrow, 1983).

http://www.minormusings.com/MaryBancroftbook.JPG

http://www.minormusings.com/Page/Aristocracy.html

In the acknowledgment of her book, Ms. Emerson states: “Pictures, information and every sort of help have been given by … certain members of the family now living on Naushon, Ralph E. Forbes, W. Cameron Forbes, and Edward W. Forbes.” [19] The father of the three men mentioned was William Hathaway Forbes—married in 1865 to Edith, daughter of Ralph Waldo Emerson—who was the first president of American Telephone and Telegraph Co., having organized the corporation for Alexander Graham Bell in 1879. He had been a partner from 1865 until 1897 of J. Murray Forbes & Co. We met W. Cameron Forbes in the Forbes Clan. He was the uncle who had offered to bring John Kerry’s mother, Rosemary, to keep house for him not long before she married Kerry’s father. John Kerry has a brother named for this favorite uncle.

Friends of Lee Harvey Oswald

Ruth Forbes (1903-98), a daughter of William Hathaway and Edith (Emerson) Forbes, married George Lyman Paine (Harvard class of 1922), an "enthusiastic Marxist and Trotskyite," and gave birth in 1928 to Michael Paine. She and Paine divorced in 1934; she married a man named Giles W. Thomas, before marrying her last husband, Arthur M. Young—inventor of the Bell helicopter. [20] Michael Paine testified as to his family background during the Warren Commission hearings. Michael’s testimony resulted from the fact that he and his wife had become very good friends with Lee Harvey Oswald and his wife Marina in the six months or so before the Kennedy assassination. The friendship with the Oswalds occurred while Michael was employed in Fort Worth at Bell Helicopter—a company which eventually made a fortune manufacturing helicopters, a design patented by his stepfather, for the war in Vietnam. In Ruth Paine’s testimony she recounted her visit to her in-laws’ summer home on Naushon Island. Michael also testified that his grandfather paid his family’s way to Naushon each year, but it is not clear whether this was a time the entire extended family came together or whether only parts of the family assembled at different times. It is clear from their testimony, however, that Ruth discussed Marina and Lee Oswald with her mother-in-law at that time, and that immediately upon her return in September of 1963 she invited Marina and the children to move into her house.

Much of the questioning of Ruth Paine before the Warren Commission came from Allen Dulles, the man whom John F. Kennedy had fired as Director of the C.I.A. Dulles never revealed at the time that he had known Ruth Forbes Paine Young and her family personally before questioning her daughter-in-law. Nor did he feel inclined to mention the fact that Michael Paine’s grandmother’s family (the Cabots) were huge stockholders in United Fruit Company; nor that both sides of the family—Cabot and Forbes—had owned land in Cuba that had been expropriated by Fidel Castro. [21] Above all, Dulles failed to mention that he and his brother, President Eisenhower’s Secretary of State during the coup era, had previously been attorneys for the United Fruit Company.

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I think Oswald set himself up. If not the TSBD he would have found another "room with a view" over the parade route. Some guys are just lucky that way.

As for the Paine's, I suspect Ruth was probably for real, but that Michael has a secret or two. It just seems a little suspicious to me that

1. He had a Minox camera.

2. He moved out just when Marina needed a place to stay, and returned right after the asassination. He paid for Marina's room and board and never complained.

3. He suddenly remembered Oswald showing him the backyard photos thirty years after the fact.

4. He was the one who returned Marina's records to the de Mohrenschildts. When the de Mohrenschildts returned from Haiti they looked through the records and voila, a backyard photograph, dated and everything. Michael Paine spent the evening of the 23rd, the day Stovall etc. found the photographs, at the police station being questioned separate from his family. They may have questioned him about his cameras, so they could establish which one was Lee's to better fake a photo. Or perhaps Paine himself planted the photos--he spent the night with Ruth on the 22nd. Something about his relationship to the photos just isn't right. I still haven't completely figured it out. I mean, would you let a commie who poses with rifles stay in your house every week-end rent free?

5. He regularly discussed politics with Oswald and took him to an ACLU meeting.

6. He admitted moving the blanket which supposedly held Oswald's rifle numerous times, and yet swore he never looked inside. Moreover, he claimed he thought it was camping equipment. How? And why, when he knew from the backyard photos Oswald had a rifle?

SUBPOENA MICHAEL PAINE

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Pat, The camera is the thing that does it for me. The whole idea that MP would have a spy camera like the Menox ?

MP was not stupid. He knew Ozwald had been to Russia and came back with almost no hinderance at all from U.S. Authorities or from the Russians. He had to know Oz was fishy and hence anything he was envolved with was fishy including at the time, Marina.

So he allows these fish to stink up his house with his family living there. It was still his house, Mike and Ruth were separated but not divorced.

I don't know how in particular or to what extent, but the Paynes were envolved up to their elbows.

jim

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Pat, The camera is the thing that does it for me. The whole idea that MP would have a spy camera like the Menox ?

jim

As alluded to earlier, when the police searched the Paine residence they found three cameras they attributed to Oswald: the Cuera, the Stereo Realist, and a small German camera. The last turned out to be a miniature Minox camera, so small, simple to use, and easy to conceal that in those days the FBI often referred to it as a spy camera. Officer Gus Rose said he distinctly remembered seeing it during the search. And in fact, according to Hewett it was actually photographed by the DPD. (The Assassinations, p. 238) An important thing to note at this stage is that on the first two lists of evidence, there was no mention of any light meter. (ibid)

A funny thing happened when the FBI took the evidence from the DPD. On their list of evidence, the Minox camera magically disappeared. (ibid) It had originally been numbered Item 375 in the joint DPD-FBI list. But when the FBI returned the evidence list to the DPD Item 375 had now turned into just a Minox light meter. (ibid p. 239) In fact, the Bureau wanted the transformation to be so complete that they tried to talk Gus Rose out of believing he had ever found a Minox. (ibid) This attempt was repeated three times and extended to H. W. Hill, the property clerk for DPD. The Bureau actually wanted the police to change their inventory list. Rose went to see Will Fritz and after getting his approval he told the FBI he would not change the inventory. (Armstrong p. 910) The story of the conflict between the two agencies, and the suppression and alteration of evidence now began to be leaked to the press. (The Assassinations p. 239) The FBI, in Hewett's words, was now caught on the horns of a dilemma. Their efforts to make the Minox disappear had been thwarted by an honest police officer. Even worse, his refusal to do so was now being circulated to the local press. This serious problem went all the way up to William Branigan, Chief of Espionage for the FBI. He called Gordon Shanklin, the SAC in Dallas, and told him the inventory lists did not match. The FBI lab had no Minox camera, only a light meter. To which Shanklin eventually and fraudulently replied that no Minox had been found. (ibid) J Edgar Hoover himself now enters the picture. He told Shanklin that maybe he should talk to the police, Marina Oswald, or Ruth Paine to solve the problem. (ibid, p. 240)

That very day, FBI agent Bardwell Odum called Ruth Paine to inquire about whether the Paines owned a Minox. Ruth said that she recalled that her husband Michael had one but dropped it into salt water and threw it away. She would ask him about it. The next day, Ruth called Odum and said Michael still had the camera and it was in a coffee can in the garage. (ibid) Odum visited the Paines that day and Michael Paine gave him his Minox camera. He said he had told the officers it was in the garage but they were not interested in it. Consider what is happening here. What you have is a multi-level charade directed and arranged by Hoover in which the Paines are willing participants. First, everyone must pretend the DPD did not find Oswald's Minox camera originally and they did not record it. Second, everyone must now act as if this original camera has been mysteriously lost. Third, everyone must now pretend that this second Minox will now replace the first as evidence! But the Paines went even further in this little playlet. Michael told Odum that the light meter the FBI substituted for Oswald's Minox was his also. The Paines have now helped in the FBI's desperate attempt to separate Oswald from the miniature spy camera. With this crucial aid, the Bureau now announced that they had accidentally taken Michael's Minox, and they were therefore returning it to him. Michael later said he had lost this camera. (Armstrong, p. 910) To finish off the cover-up, when the Paines were called before the Commission, neither was asked about the Minox camera. (The Assassinations, p. 241)

When Marina Oswald was questioned by the HSCA, they questioned her about not one, but two Minox cameras. One was stored at the National Archives, the other came from an unidentified location. Marina could not identify either camera as Oswald's. (ibid)

But someone didn't get his copy of the script. Today, there is a Minox camera in the National Archives. If one believes the Paines and the FBI, it cannot belong to the Paines. John Armstrong has seen and tried to open this camera. He says it cannot be opened and therefore the serial number cannot be checked. (Armstrong p. 910)

Actually T. Carter went to the archives on behalf of Armstrong and was permitted to view, hold the camera and weight it, but she said it seemed like it was permantly sealed with cement or glue and couldn't be opened.

I'd like to know when and where Oswald obtained the camera, and what photos he had among his possessions were taken with this camera.

I understand that the Minox is not only small and easily concealed, but that it is good for taking photos of documents.

BK

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Bill, the point of my excerpt from Bugliosi Part One is to show the Paines cooperation with the FBI in separating Oswald from his camera.

They deliberately went along with this playlet so that Oswald would not be suspected of being an intelligence agent, which Hoover understood him as.

Why would they do such a thing? And why would Hoover send Odum there if he did not know they would cooperate fully from the get go?

Maybe because he had worked with them before?

Jim,

If the president would be assassinated today, those who gave the assassin basic support - place to stay, place for family to stay, financial support, transport, including transport of the alledged assassination weapons, to and from different cities, and holding the weapons until needed, those persons would have been violently interrogated, waterboarded, and given the opportunity to cooperate, or face even worse situtations, much like the women who provided Booth with a place to stay before he killed Lincoln, she was hung.

The Paines got off light, and the only reason they got off light is because of the influence of Dulles, Ford and others who gave the instructions that the Paines were to be handled with kid gloves, because they held the key to the conspiracy.

BK

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If the president would be assassinated today, those who gave the assassin basic support - place to stay, place for family to stay, financial support, transport, including transport of the alledged assassination weapons, to and from different cities, and holding the weapons until needed, those persons would have been violently interrogated, waterboarded, and given the opportunity to cooperate, or face even worse situtations, much like the women who provided Booth with a place to stay before he killed Lincoln, she was hung.

With all respect - I believe it depends on who sanctions the killing.

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Vince Salandria's 1998 Dallas COPA keynote speech is very important.

In it, he details how Ruth and Michael Paine must have been involved in placing the accused assassin in the TSBD, and called for their indictments.

Does anyone know if there is a transcript of this speech on line?

If the assassination of the President happened today, both Paines and Buel Wesley Frazier would have been indicted, even if they were unwitting assistants in the murder.

I have a hard copy of the speech but don't want to retype it if it is already on line.

Thanks,

BK

Bill,

I think this is it.

http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_...ue/vs_text.html

Ron W

That's It!

Many thanks Ron,

BK

"Oswald's family was brought to the Dallas area by Ruth Paine. Ruth Paine had been instrumental in getting Oswald a job at the Texas Book Depository. The Manlicher Carcano, the alleged murder rifle, had supposedly been stored in a garage of the Paines. Following the assassination, Ruth Paine was called by Oswald during his detention to have her obtain a lawyer for him, a task which she failed to complete much to the benefit of the assassins.

Once a conspiracy was deemed to exist, and even our government in the House Select Committee concluded that there was a probable conspiracy, the Paines had to be viewed as having been involved in it. An assassination Gestalt with the patsy serving as a lightning rod, cannot be successfully completed unless the patsy is delivered to the scene of the killing. Ruth Paine accomplished the crucial twin assassination tasks of getting Oswald into the Dallas area and arranging to get him a job in the Texas Book Depository Building. Therefore, the Paines, albeit on a need-to-know basis, were involved in the plot."

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Who was the president killed on 9-11?

Isn't that what you are referring to?

Jim, I'm just generalizing an actual modern cover-up over to a hypothetical modern situation (assassination), and mostly for BK's amusement.

Am I far out of line, intellectually? Oswald was the only guy who didn't escape on 11/22/63, unless you count Tippit and Ruby, and a lot of witnesses later.

I think Peter Dale Scott would back me up here. I wish I could pull him out for you, like Woody Allen did Marshall McLuhan in Annie Hall

Edited by David Andrews
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  • 2 weeks later...
Vince Salandria's 1998 Dallas COPA keynote speech is very important.

In it, he details how Ruth and Michael Paine must have been involved in placing the accused assassin in the TSBD, and called for their indictments.

Does anyone know if there is a transcript of this speech on line?

If the assassination of the President happened today, both Paines and Buel Wesley Frazier would have been indicted, even if they were unwitting assistants in the murder.

I have a hard copy of the speech but don't want to retype it if it is already on line.

Thanks,

BK

Bill,

I think this is it.

http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_...ue/vs_text.html

Ron W

That's It!

Many thanks Ron,

BK

"Oswald's family was brought to the Dallas area by Ruth Paine. Ruth Paine had been instrumental in getting Oswald a job at the Texas Book Depository. The Manlicher Carcano, the alleged murder rifle, had supposedly been stored in a garage of the Paines. Following the assassination, Ruth Paine was called by Oswald during his detention to have her obtain a lawyer for him, a task which she failed to complete much to the benefit of the assassins.

Once a conspiracy was deemed to exist, and even our government in the House Select Committee concluded that there was a probable conspiracy, the Paines had to be viewed as having been involved in it. An assassination Gestalt with the patsy serving as a lightning rod, cannot be successfully completed unless the patsy is delivered to the scene of the killing. Ruth Paine accomplished the crucial twin assassination tasks of getting Oswald into the Dallas area and arranging to get him a job in the Texas Book Depository Building. Therefore, the Paines, albeit on a need-to-know basis, were involved in the plot."

Wait a minute, Dave Reitzes, David Von Pein and half the LN Band are in the house, and they're not going to come to the aid of Mrs. Paine?

And I thought they were gentlemen.

BK

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Guest Robert Morrow

"And neither does he go into the background of the Paines, to the extent that he never mentions Ruth's work in Nicaragua during the CIA's war on the Sandinistas. Which is, to say the least, quite interesting. Since she was reportedly spying on leftists down there. Sound familiar? Yep, because Buddy Walthers originally saw "six or seven metal filing cabinets full of pro-Castro sympathizers" at the Paine household when it was searched. Walthers himself transported these small metal file boxes back to the Sheriff's office in the trunk of his car. (Hancock, pgs 552-53)"

1) That would imply Ruth Paine was SPYING on pro-Castro sympathizers in the early 1960's

2)In Nicaragua, she was supposedly SPYING on leftists and Sandinista supporters or opponents of the contra war. I think the leftists used to run after her in Nicaraguan shouting "CIA spy" ... and Ruth Paine was a copious note taker down there, as if she was SPYING.

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Rex has just added some new files to the Mary Ferrell Archives on line - some from the Assassination Archives and Research Center, including some of the FBI's files on Ruth and Michael Paine, George DeMohrenschildt and Gen. Walker.

http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

Here's the link to the Paine records:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/docset/getList.do?docSetId=1937

Here's a good example of some of the gems that can be found if you look:

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=145632&relPageId=4

Did Ruth Hyde, before she married Paine, correspond with Oswald in Russia via a Pen Pal program?

There's also a lot of good background on the geneology of the Paines and Hydes and Youngs.

Thanks to Rex and Jim Lesar for sharing these important records.

BK

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I'm not sure about that Lee.

I think Tony Summers tracked down that guy and he denied he said it. He blamed it on an error by the FBI.

Yea, Lee, I think Jim is right, and that you can't believe everything you read in an FBI report.

But there are other records of Ruth's Pen-Pals in USSR and the whole operation smells kind of fishy.

She was living in Philly early on - from 1957 - before she met Michael at a Philadelphia folk dance, and studied Russian at Penn, where Edward L. Kennan (the linguist)

was also a student.

And she was active in Quaker circles, and there's a lot more going on here than meets the eye.

BK

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I'm not sure about that Lee.

I think Tony Summers tracked down that guy and he denied he said it. He blamed it on an error by the FBI.

Seems like a bizarre error to make, Jim & Bill. The information seems quite specific. What was the reasoning for the "error"?

Lee

Hey Lee,

I'm with you.

Let's get to the bottom of it.

I'm looking but I have yet to come across a single document that metions the fact that Michael Paine's mom, Ruth Forbes Paine Young, even knew let alone travled by boat to Europe with Mary Bancroft, who would marry a Swiss citizen she met on the boat to Europe she traveled on with Ruth Forbes, and then settled down in Swiss and became a primary agent and lover of OSS man Swiss, Alan Dulles, and became a primary player in the Valkyrie plot to assassinate Hitler and coup, and translated the memorirs of one of the participants in that plot.

Of course Dulles, in one of his official biographies, is quoted as saying that if there would be no end to the speculation if conspiracy theorists ever learned that the mother of the chief benefactor of the accussed assassin was best friends with a principal agent and lover of Dulles when they were trying to assassinate Hitler.

BK

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“I wondered, as I had already indicated for the Commission, I had wondered, from time to time, whether this was a man who was working as a spy, or in any way a threat to the Nation, and I thought, This is the first I have heard anything about a contact. I am interested to know if this is a real thing or something unreal.”

– Mrs. Paine.

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