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Who Killed JFK?: Poll and Discussion?


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#196 Dean Hagerman

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 03:05 PM

Robert

While I agree with many of the people on your list, im having a hard time with Curtis LeMay

If he was at the autopsy then I might have a little bit of give to the fact that he could have known about the plot (not be involved)

I think that Curtis LeMay was one of the best military minds of all time

In fact I think LeMay and Nimitz are the two best ever

#197 Guest_Robert Morrow_*

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Posted 07 November 2011 - 05:17 AM

Robert

While I agree with many of the people on your list, im having a hard time with Curtis LeMay

If he was at the autopsy then I might have a little bit of give to the fact that he could have known about the plot (not be involved)

I think that Curtis LeMay was one of the best military minds of all time

In fact I think LeMay and Nimitz are the two best ever


Do I have "proof" that Curtis LeMay was involved in the 1963 Coup d'Etat? No. Do I think he was? Yes. LeMay and JFK hated each others guts. During the Cuban Missile Crisis Curtis Lemay was pretty much calling JFK Neville Chamberlain (that is a cuss word for appeaser) to JFK's face. JFK had a certain meeting with LeMay then told his advisors he never wanted to see him again. CIA Air Force General Ed Lansdale was identified by Prouty and Krulak as present at TSBD on 11/22/63.

The fact that LeMay was/ may have been a military genious is irrelevant. The fact that he hated Kennedy intensely and was friends with JFK's enemies is very relevant.

Edited by Robert Morrow, 07 November 2011 - 05:17 AM.


#198 Travis Kelly

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 06:14 AM

I look back to the Edwin Walker shooting incident as the key. It's been awhile since I read Dick Russell's The Man Who Knew Too Much, but he did some stellar original research here, and tied that to Larrie Schmidt and the Hunt Bros.

The Walker shooting was a dress rehearsal for the JFK hit -- Oswald (Harvey in Armstrong's scheme) was there, I think, and may or may not have fired the shot that was probably a deliberate miss -- a staged "assassination" attempt, which may have been what LHO was told would happen in Dallas for JFK (the Gary Weans/John Tower/Audie Murphy story). He had proven his willingness to participate in such a staged provocation with Walker, and immediately after this he was sent to New Orleans in April, where the real patsy set-up work began. According to Judyth Baker, LHO balked at playing the pro-Castro activist in Dallas after the Walker shooting, fearing it was too dangerous.

In Farewell America, the book supposedly produced by French intelligence at RFK's behest, there was a celebration at the Hunt offices immediately after the assassination. And there have been allegations that the Hunts funded the hit. Not to say that the Hunts were the prime movers, but they were tied in with Willoughby, Ruby, the CIA, LBJ, and all the major suspects.

If the Gary Weans story is true, it explains how many participants (e.g., Secret Service, perhaps Tippit) may have been roped into the operation, never believing that it would actually be lethal. This may have grown out of the Operation Northwoods schemes. But a fake assassination, even if it had worked as a pretext for launching an attack on Cuba (if LHO had been escorted out of the country), would never have dimmed JFK's re-election prospects -- quite the opposite, in fact. His ratings would have skyrocketed -- rally around our attacked president! Thus for the Hunts, LBJ, Hoover, the CIA, Mob, and MIC -- all who stood lose both institutionally and personally if JFK were re-elected in '64 -- the fake hit had to become the real thing. Some were in on the conversion, some were probably not. If this is indeed how it happened, it is similar to the recent spate of terrorist exercises and drills (9/11, 7/7) that served as Trojan Horses for false flag attacks.

#199 Travis Kelly

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 06:56 AM

April is also when the idea of JFK visiting Dallas was first broached (later confirmed in June in El Paso). Immediately after the Walker shooting, April of '63, is when the ball began to roll.

#200 Stephen Courts

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 10:22 PM

John,

you said:

I believe that the people behind the assassination were representatives of what Eisenhower called the Military Industrial Complex. The main objective was to ensure the continuance of the Cold War. To achieve this they had the convince the American public that they faced a real communist threat. The presence of a revolutionary communist government on its doorstep (Cuba) was permanent evidence of this. So also was the presence of WMD in the Soviet Union and China. As in Iraq, we now know the CIA and MI5 exaggerated this threat.

I couldn't agree more that it was in the interests of the MIC to stretch the Cold War out as long as possible.

However, I disagree that keeping Cuba under Castro was part of the plan. With Castro, it was personal. And he was way too close.

"1984" had it about right. You need a distant war. Vietnam was perfect. And they were easy to get people to hate simply because they looked different. Unlike Cuba, there was no risk of it ending in a nuclear war. It could be dragged on and on.

My "villians" in this are MI and right wing group/s, possibly supported/aided by a few exiles. I believe the express purpose of the assassination was indeed, to force an invasion of Cuba. The plan went awry when Oswald was arrested. I believe the original plan called for him to be whisked out of the country and killed, though it would look like he had fled to Cuba. The evidence would point to him as Castro agent.

The key, imo, is the Hidell ID found at Tippit murder scene. This was left to tie Oswald (who by now appeared to be in Cuba) to the designated murder weapon. Tippit was probably his escort to the airport, and would have been killed even if he had delivered Oswald for the flight out. Either one or both got cold feet, and when Oswald was arrested with his own wallet, the plan fell apart.

Note that not one of the 5 cops who rode with Oswald from the TT mentioned anything about two lots of ID in their initial reports - and nor was Oswald asked about any Hidell ID until the next day when the decision was made to transfer the Hiddell ID from Tippit site wallet to Oswald wallet. The LN scenario was taking shape.

This explains why there was lack of concern about evidence of multiple gunmen. The plotters didn't care if it looked like Oswald had accomplices who also got away - so long as Castro could be blamed.

The MIC got what it wanted. Vietnam. The Cuban invasion was lost only because of Oswald's survival that afternoon.

I realise you have information which you believe to be reliable, to support the version of events you've outlined. But with respect, I have come across others who also say they have the inside story, but can't give out all the details. Until one of you do, how is it supposed to be evaluated?

Can you at least say how you get from MCone/Morales to Oswald, and how they set Oswald up?

Without the inside dope, all can do is follow the evidence. "Hidell", I believe, traces back to MI and their cronies in Dallas/NO r-w circles.

greg



#201 Stephen Courts

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 10:37 PM

Hi Greg. I am a new member. Having read 60 books and seen numerous DVDs and read a number of posts, I have a question regarding a book I bought that is intriging. Harvey & Lee. My friend, Robert Morrow, helped to get me on the site and I am enjoying reading thoughts from such intelligent and informed members. There are parts of Harvey and Lee that are right on and most of it seems to add up. Do you think it is possible that there were two LHO's living simulaneously and "Harvey" was the one set to be the patsy. Have you possibly read this monster sized book? Some of your comments are substanitated in this book. I am torn whether to "own" this theory (it is plausable, knowing the capabilities of the CIA). Thank you for your feedback. Stephen Courts

p.s. My phone number is 614-777-0551 and I live near Columbus, Ohio
My email is jsc12109@hotmail.com and jsc12109@gmail.com

My apologies for misspelled words. The spellcheck would not operate without downloading an app and that froze the post.

#202 Stephen Courts

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    Retired early from a Sales Management position with what is now AT&T due to a Joseph Mengele type botched back surgery. I am able to due a lot of things, like elliptical workouts, walking, light yard work. I am kept busy by a 12 year old Blue & Gold McCaw and a almost 7 year old Springer Spaniel. Divorced. I graduated The Ohio State University in 1976 and I am a US Army veteran, serving for almost a year near Seoul Korea. Much more about me and my background and political views are on the home page of my primitive web site. My emails are; jsc12109@hotmail.com and jsc12109@gmail.com. My home phone is 614-777-0551.

Posted 17 November 2011 - 02:03 AM

Robert

While I agree with many of the people on your list, im having a hard time with Curtis LeMay

If he was at the autopsy then I might have a little bit of give to the fact that he could have known about the plot (not be involved)

I think that Curtis LeMay was one of the best military minds of all time

In fact I think LeMay and Nimitz are the two best ever



#203 Paul Trejo

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 04:17 AM

I look back to the Edwin Walker shooting incident as the key. It's been awhile since I read Dick Russell's The Man Who Knew Too Much, but he did some stellar original research here, and tied that to Larrie Schmidt and the Hunt Bros...


I'm glad that this thread has settled into speculations about the ground-crew in Dallas who actually managed and accomlished the shooting. The House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) in 1979, after criticizing the Warren Commission and re-opening then re-closing the JFK assassination proceedings, concluded that Oswald probably had accomplices. This was hard to squeeze out of the US government, which still insisted on keeping hundreds of documents on this topic top secret.

After reading all of the volumes of the HSCA, I was impressed by the technical documentation more than the witness testimony. Actually, the witness testimony of the Warren Commission is superb by comparison. I recently reviewed the Warren Commission testimony in response to an interesting book by Jacques Zwart: ‘Invitation to Hair Splitting’ (1970). Zwart worked with Allen Dulles and claims Dulles led him to believe that the truth of the JFK assassination can be gleaned from the Warren Commission volumes by 'splitting hairs,' i.e. by reading between the lines, by reading what was *omitted* from the questions asked. Dulles wouldn’t tell him what he would find there – but assured him he would find them if he studied.

After all -- the Warren Commission was the first to suspect George De Mohrenschildt and General Edwin Walker of some role in the JFK assassination. They didn't press the matters like a prosecutor would do -- because they weren't prosecutors. Imagine how an able prosecutor would have made George De Mohrenschildt sing! "What? You didn't call the police when you learned that Oswald was General Walker's shooter?! Are you a man or a mouse?!"

Or imagine what an able prosecutor could have done with General Walker on the stand: "What? You wrote to a German neo-Nazi newspaper the day after the JFK assassination that Oswald was your shooter on 4/10/63, when Marina Oswald did not tell the FBI about that until two weeks later?! How did *you* know that?!" But we didn't want to prosecute these prime suspects who were so close to the ground-crew of the JFK hit.

I would like to propose a shift in this thread -- John Simkin started this thread with his speculations on who killed JFK with a list of high-level suspects who would have participated *at a distance*. And most of the suspects listed since then have been high-level in this way. I would like to shift the focus to the ground-crew. Who were the immediate supervisors of the shooters on that day?

In the current state of my research, General Edwin Walker is suspect number one. I believe he had more reason to hate the Kennedy's than just about anybody, and that includes Jimmy Hoffa and Carlos Marcello. RFK and JFK not only had General Walker arrested for the Ole Miss riots of 1962, but then had him locked up in an insane asylum! That's no way to treat one of the great Generals of World War Two. Dallas was Walker's town. The reason that Adlai Stevenson was battered in Dallas just weeks before JFK's motorcade there, was because General Walker had whipped up the crowd against the United Nations the night before. This is well-documented (c.f. Chris Cravens, "Edwin A. Walker and the Right Wing in Dallas, STSU, 1993).

General Walker was also a Dallas member of the John Birch Society (JBS) which has been a key supsect in this research since Jack Ruby named them to the Warren Commission (and associated General Walker's name with them).

Furthermore, General Walker was an officer of the Texas Minutemen, just as Guy Banister was. This outfit was more radical than the JBS ever was. If a person belonged to *both* organizations, and also lived in Dallas, he would be a prime suspect in any conspiracy to assassinate JFK, in my opinion.

Add to this the fact that the Dallas Police Force had many supporters of General Walker in their ranks. William W. Turner wrote ("Power on the Right" 1971) that the only candidates accepted for the Dallas Police Force in 1963 were members of the JBS, the Minutemen, the KKK or some other extremist, right-wing organization. Dallas in 1963 was the headquarters of most of the extreme right-wing groups in America.

And General Walker was right in the middle of all of it.

In my opinion - as an answer to the question of whodunnit - General Walker should be the prime suspect of the Dallas plotters, just as his associate in the Minutemen, Guy Banister, was a prime suspect of the New Orleans plotters. Jim Garrison exposed the ground-crew of the New Orleans plotters, but that turned out to be a feeble accusation without a strong link to the ground-crew of the Dallas plotters.

So - yes - General Walker is at the very heart of it, in my current opinion.

Best regards...

Edited by Paul Trejo, 06 December 2011 - 04:19 AM.


#204 Guest_Robert Morrow_*

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 07:04 AM

General Edward Lansdale who was identified by Col. Fletcher Prouty and Gen. Victor Krulak is an excellent choice for having supervised the ground crew of the JFK assassination.

Prouty and Krulak identified Lansdale in this photograph:

http://www.prouty.org/tramps1.jpg

Major General Edward Lansdale was probably in operational charge of the assassination in Dallas. JFK did not make him ambassador to Vietnam in 1961, which Lansdale coveted. JFK did make Lansdale the Head of Operation Mongoose which was filled to the brim with CIA and anti-Castro Cubans who hated JFK as much as they hated Fidel Castro. Here is a photo of Lansdale taken on the sidewalk in front of and just a few feet west of the Texas School Book Depository: ! http://www.apfn.net/dcia/tramps1.jpg Fletcher Prouty gives his insights: http://www.prouty.org/letter.html Here is a 3/14/85 letter by Gen. Victor H. Krulak also identifying Edward Lansdale at the TSBD on 11/22/63: http://www.ratical.c...K/USO/appD.html Edward Lansdale, the CIA’s assassinations expert, - his presence in Dallas indicts the CIA.
Here is a Lansdale bio: http://www.spartacus...OLDlansdale.htm Also, Wikipedia on Lansdale: : http://en.wikipedia....Edward_Lansdale Forget the 3 tramps, the identification of Lansdale by Fletcher Prouty and General Krulak is the jewel in that photo! Edward Lansdale had a rectangular head: http://www.google.co...l=&oq=&gs_rfai=
More on Ed Lansdale and his black warfare in the 1950’s in Vietnam: http://www.historyne...50s-vietnam.htm
[In the book Edward Lansdale’s Cold War by Jonathan Nashel, there is a picture taken in 1986, the year before Lansdale died, of Lansdale and a bunch of 1980’s Cold Warriors, including Oliver North. [p. 126, Edward Lansdale’s Cold War]. Oliver North considered himself a protégé of Lansdale and referred to himself as “Lansdalian.” The Washington Post says Oliver North “was already Lansdale-ized when he reached the NSC. Oliver North had a plan to suspend the U.S. Constitution called Rex 84 Alpha, short for Readiness Exercise 1984. North also had a similar plan called “Operation Sledgehammer.” (See Al Martin’s blockbuster book The Conspirators: Confessions of an Iran-Contra Insider. Jeb Bush and Oliver North come of looking very, very bad in this book.)

#205 Evan Marshall

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 06:22 PM

General Edward Lansdale who was identified by Col. Fletcher Prouty and Gen. Victor Krulak is an excellent choice for having supervised the ground crew of the JFK assassination.

Prouty and Krulak identified Lansdale in this photograph:

http://www.prouty.org/tramps1.jpg

Major General Edward Lansdale was probably in operational charge of the assassination in Dallas. JFK did not make him ambassador to Vietnam in 1961, which Lansdale coveted. JFK did make Lansdale the Head of Operation Mongoose which was filled to the brim with CIA and anti-Castro Cubans who hated JFK as much as they hated Fidel Castro. Here is a photo of Lansdale taken on the sidewalk in front of and just a few feet west of the Texas School Book Depository: ! http://www.apfn.net/dcia/tramps1.jpg Fletcher Prouty gives his insights: http://www.prouty.org/letter.html Here is a 3/14/85 letter by Gen. Victor H. Krulak also identifying Edward Lansdale at the TSBD on 11/22/63: http://www.ratical.c...K/USO/appD.html Edward Lansdale, the CIA’s assassinations expert, - his presence in Dallas indicts the CIA.
Here is a Lansdale bio: http://www.spartacus...OLDlansdale.htm Also, Wikipedia on Lansdale: : http://en.wikipedia....Edward_Lansdale Forget the 3 tramps, the identification of Lansdale by Fletcher Prouty and General Krulak is the jewel in that photo! Edward Lansdale had a rectangular head: http://www.google.co...l=&oq=&gs_rfai=
More on Ed Lansdale and his black warfare in the 1950’s in Vietnam: http://www.historyne...50s-vietnam.htm
[In the book Edward Lansdale’s Cold War by Jonathan Nashel, there is a picture taken in 1986, the year before Lansdale died, of Lansdale and a bunch of 1980’s Cold Warriors, including Oliver North. [p. 126, Edward Lansdale’s Cold War]. Oliver North considered himself a protégé of Lansdale and referred to himself as “Lansdalian.” The Washington Post says Oliver North “was already Lansdale-ized when he reached the NSC. Oliver North had a plan to suspend the U.S. Constitution called Rex 84 Alpha, short for Readiness Exercise 1984. North also had a similar plan called “Operation Sledgehammer.” (See Al Martin’s blockbuster book The Conspirators: Confessions of an Iran-Contra Insider. Jeb Bush and Oliver North come of looking very, very bad in this book.)



#206 Evan Marshall

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 06:40 PM

a big conspiracy may make people happy but it quickly becomes unmanagible and leaks like the Titanic. There were certainly alot of people happy to JFK die and who benefited without actually being involved.

I think is was highly compartmentalized and a relatively small op. I have a friend who was involved in Che's capture. His opinion is that Morales strongest skills were as a hands on operator. Shooters with particular skill's needed were not that hard to find inside CONUS-the anti Casto Cubans seemed incapable of keeping their mouths shut. I've always thought that Mitch Werbell who invented the Sionics suppressor and Jack Cannon who invented the Glaser Safety Slug deserve alot harder look.

I think Angleton was the planner, Morales the incident Commander, and 3-5 gunmen and an equal number spotters with a similar number of personnel to help them escape the event. They would have certainly a 2nd team in place past Dealy Plaza in csde the 1st attempt failed.

During two tours in Detroit Homicde we often found that our assumptions were incorrect and had to look at the murder a second time from a totally different perspective. The real problem in attempting to solve this conspirarcy in not information but ego. Too many folks on our side of the fence are more concerned about their theory than the truth.

Evan Marshall

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#207 Paul Trejo

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 04:52 PM

General Edward Lansdale who was identified by Col. Fletcher Prouty and Gen. Victor Krulak is an excellent choice for having supervised the ground crew of the JFK assassination.

Prouty and Krulak identified Lansdale in this photograph:

http://www.prouty.org/tramps1.jpg

Major General Edward Lansdale was probably in operational charge of the assassination in Dallas. JFK did not make him ambassador to Vietnam in 1961, which Lansdale coveted. JFK did make Lansdale the Head of Operation Mongoose which was filled to the brim with CIA and anti-Castro Cubans who hated JFK as much as they hated Fidel Castro. Here is a photo of Lansdale taken on the sidewalk in front of and just a few feet west of the Texas School Book Depository: !
http://www.apfn.net/dcia/tramps1.jpg Fletcher Prouty gives his insights: http://www.prouty.org/letter.html Here is a 3/14/85
letter by Gen. Victor H. Krulak also identifying Edward Lansdale at the TSBD on 11/22/63:
http://www.ratical.c...K/USO/appD.html Edward Lansdale, the CIA’s assassinations expert, - his presence in Dallas indicts the CIA.

Here is a Lansdale bio: http://www.spartacus...OLDlansdale.htm Also, Wikipedia on Lansdale: : http://en.wikipedia....Edward_Lansdale Forget the 3 tramps, the identification of Lansdale by Fletcher Prouty and
General Krulak is the jewel in that photo! Edward Lansdale had a rectangular head: http://www.google.co...l=&oq=&gs_rfai=
More on Ed Lansdale and his black warfare in the 1950’s in Vietnam: http://www.historyne...50s-vietnam.htm
[In the book Edward Lansdale’s Cold War by Jonathan Nashel, there is a picture taken in 1986, the year before Lansdale died, of Lansdale and a bunch of 1980’s Cold Warriors, including Oliver North. [p. 126, Edward Lansdale’s Cold War]. Oliver North considered himself a protégé of Lansdale and referred to himself as “Lansdalian.” The Washington Post says Oliver North “was already Lansdale-ized when he reached the NSC. Oliver North had a plan to suspend the U.S. Constitution called Rex 84 Alpha, short for Readiness Exercise 1984. North also had a similar plan called “Operation Sledgehammer.” (See Al Martin’s blockbuster book The Conspirators: Confessions of an Iran-Contra Insider. Jeb Bush and Oliver North come off looking very, very bad in this book.)


Robert, I'm impressed with this new insight. This is more ground-level than your usual HL Hunt focus. Today we seem to agree on the Pentagon as the level at which the scope of the Dallas hit would be properly managed. The Secret Service lacks this wide a scope; ditto the CIA proper; they were bit-players. A General, especially one with Special Operations experience, has a scope wide enough for the planning, the execution and the long-term cover-up.

Lansdale? Your letter from Fletcher Prouty was like cold water in my face. Contrary to Canfield and Weberman in their book, COUP DE ETAT IN AMERICA (1975) the three tramps were not the November shooters. (That should have been clear because the tramp who looked like Howard Hunt was short, while the tramp who liked like Frank Sturgis was tall.) Prouty and Krulak, two men who knew Lansdale personally, say the man with his back to the camera in the tramps photo was General Lansdale. And as Canfield and Weberman already pointed out, the policemen guarding the tramps were bogus (they were posing for the camera and didn't know how to hold their weapons or dress properly). So, Fletcher Prouty is right - the tramps were another decoy. But why were they led by a Military General?!?

Prouty successfully placed Lansdale at the Dallas scene -- but that is barely circumstantial evidence. Prouty failed to give Lansdale a believable motive for the JFK hit. However, a second General at the Dallas scene could give weight to my proposal that General Walker (who had a powerful motive) was the center of the cyclone. Military Generals stick together; that could be an adequate motive for Lansdale to be in Dallas; to support Walker by leading a team of decoys.

Best regards...

#208 Andric Perez

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 10:44 AM

I look back to the Edwin Walker shooting incident as the key. It's been awhile since I read Dick Russell's The Man Who Knew Too Much, but he did some stellar original research here, and tied that to Larrie Schmidt and the Hunt Bros.

The Walker shooting was a dress rehearsal for the JFK hit -- Oswald (Harvey in Armstrong's scheme) was there, I think, and may or may not have fired the shot that was probably a deliberate miss -- a staged "assassination" attempt, which may have been what LHO was told would happen in Dallas for JFK (the Gary Weans/John Tower/Audie Murphy story). He had proven his willingness to participate in such a staged provocation with Walker, and immediately after this he was sent to New Orleans in April, where the real patsy set-up work began. According to Judyth Baker, LHO balked at playing the pro-Castro activist in Dallas after the Walker shooting, fearing it was too dangerous.

In Farewell America, the book supposedly produced by French intelligence at RFK's behest, there was a celebration at the Hunt offices immediately after the assassination. And there have been allegations that the Hunts funded the hit. Not to say that the Hunts were the prime movers, but they were tied in with Willoughby, Ruby, the CIA, LBJ, and all the major suspects.

If the Gary Weans story is true, it explains how many participants (e.g., Secret Service, perhaps Tippit) may have been roped into the operation, never believing that it would actually be lethal. This may have grown out of the Operation Northwoods schemes. But a fake assassination, even if it had worked as a pretext for launching an attack on Cuba (if LHO had been escorted out of the country), would never have dimmed JFK's re-election prospects -- quite the opposite, in fact. His ratings would have skyrocketed -- rally around our attacked president! Thus for the Hunts, LBJ, Hoover, the CIA, Mob, and MIC -- all who stood lose both institutionally and personally if JFK were re-elected in '64 -- the fake hit had to become the real thing. Some were in on the conversion, some were probably not. If this is indeed how it happened, it is similar to the recent spate of terrorist exercises and drills (9/11, 7/7) that served as Trojan Horses for false flag attacks.


self-delete.

Edited by Andric Perez, 28 December 2011 - 10:45 AM.


#209 Guest_Robert Morrow_*

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 05:41 AM



General Edward Lansdale who was identified by Col. Fletcher Prouty and Gen. Victor Krulak is an excellent choice for having supervised the ground crew of the JFK assassination.

Prouty and Krulak identified Lansdale in this photograph:

http://www.prouty.org/tramps1.jpg

Major General Edward Lansdale was probably in operational charge of the assassination in Dallas. JFK did not make him ambassador to Vietnam in 1961, which Lansdale coveted. JFK did make Lansdale the Head of Operation Mongoose which was filled to the brim with CIA and anti-Castro Cubans who hated JFK as much as they hated Fidel Castro. Here is a photo of Lansdale taken on the sidewalk in front of and just a few feet west of the Texas School Book Depository: !
http://www.apfn.net/dcia/tramps1.jpg Fletcher Prouty gives his insights: http://www.prouty.org/letter.html Here is a 3/14/85
letter by Gen. Victor H. Krulak also identifying Edward Lansdale at the TSBD on 11/22/63:
http://www.ratical.c...K/USO/appD.html Edward Lansdale, the CIA’s assassinations expert, - his presence in Dallas indicts the CIA.

Here is a Lansdale bio: http://www.spartacus...OLDlansdale.htm Also, Wikipedia on Lansdale: : http://en.wikipedia....Edward_Lansdale Forget the 3 tramps, the identification of Lansdale by Fletcher Prouty and
General Krulak is the jewel in that photo! Edward Lansdale had a rectangular head: http://www.google.co...l=&oq=&gs_rfai=
More on Ed Lansdale and his black warfare in the 1950’s in Vietnam: http://www.historyne...50s-vietnam.htm
[In the book Edward Lansdale’s Cold War by Jonathan Nashel, there is a picture taken in 1986, the year before Lansdale died, of Lansdale and a bunch of 1980’s Cold Warriors, including Oliver North. [p. 126, Edward Lansdale’s Cold War]. Oliver North considered himself a protégé of Lansdale and referred to himself as “Lansdalian.” The Washington Post says Oliver North “was already Lansdale-ized when he reached the NSC. Oliver North had a plan to suspend the U.S. Constitution called Rex 84 Alpha, short for Readiness Exercise 1984. North also had a similar plan called “Operation Sledgehammer.” (See Al Martin’s blockbuster book The Conspirators: Confessions of an Iran-Contra Insider. Jeb Bush and Oliver North come off looking very, very bad in this book.)


Robert, I'm impressed with this new insight. This is more ground-level than your usual HL Hunt focus. Today we seem to agree on the Pentagon as the level at which the scope of the Dallas hit would be properly managed. The Secret Service lacks this wide a scope; ditto the CIA proper; they were bit-players. A General, especially one with Special Operations experience, has a scope wide enough for the planning, the execution and the long-term cover-up.

Lansdale? Your letter from Fletcher Prouty was like cold water in my face. Contrary to Canfield and Weberman in their book, COUP DE ETAT IN AMERICA (1975) the three tramps were not the November shooters. (That should have been clear because the tramp who looked like Howard Hunt was short, while the tramp who liked like Frank Sturgis was tall.) Prouty and Krulak, two men who knew Lansdale personally, say the man with his back to the camera in the tramps photo was General Lansdale. And as Canfield and Weberman already pointed out, the policemen guarding the tramps were bogus (they were posing for the camera and didn't know how to hold their weapons or dress properly). So, Fletcher Prouty is right - the tramps were another decoy. But why were they led by a Military General?!?

Prouty successfully placed Lansdale at the Dallas scene -- but that is barely circumstantial evidence. Prouty failed to give Lansdale a believable motive for the JFK hit. However, a second General at the Dallas scene could give weight to my proposal that General Walker (who had a powerful motive) was the center of the cyclone. Military Generals stick together; that could be an adequate motive for Lansdale to be in Dallas; to support Walker by leading a team of decoys.

Best regards...


It was more than just Prouty who identified Lansdale at Dallas. It was also Gen. Victor Krulak, too: http://www.ratical.o...K/USO/appD.html

I suggest reading up on Lansdale. Oliver North patterned himself on Lansdale. Lansdale motive for killing Kennedy would be that he wanted him dead. Lansdale was more CIA than he was Air Force. He was close to Allen Dulles, one of the architects of the Warren Commission farce. I think Dulles, along with Lansdale, was involved in the JFK assassination at the behest of LBJ and his Texas oilmen who instigated this thing.

Ed Lansdale was the CIA's expert on coups, assassinations and propaganda. He was involved in Vietnam and Cuba (Operation Mongoose) - 2 hotspots for the Kennedy brothers, areas where they conflicted with CIA/military in big ways.

I currently have NO PLACE for Edwin Walker in the JFK assassination, mostly because he contacted the HSCA about the bullet in evidence not being the one shot at him. One does not stir up the waters like that if you are guilty; being really quiet is a good strategy. Normally, I would suspect Walker because he was yet another one who was friends with the perp H.L. Hunt. But, currently, I do not think Walker was involved.

Edited by Robert Morrow, 01 January 2012 - 05:43 AM.


#210 Paul Trejo

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 07:12 AM

It was more than just Prouty who identified Lansdale at Dallas. It was also Gen. Victor Krulak, too: http://www.ratical.o...K/USO/appD.html

I suggest reading up on Lansdale. Oliver North patterned himself on Lansdale. Lansdale motive for killing Kennedy would be that he wanted him dead. Lansdale was more CIA than he was Air Force. He was close to Allen Dulles, one of the architects of the Warren Commission farce. I think Dulles, along with Lansdale, was involved in the JFK assassination at the behest of LBJ and his Texas oilmen who instigated this thing.

Ed Lansdale was the CIA's expert on coups, assassinations and propaganda. He was involved in Vietnam and Cuba (Operation Mongoose) - 2 hotspots for the Kennedy brothers, areas where they conflicted with CIA/military in big ways.

I currently have NO PLACE for Edwin Walker in the JFK assassination, mostly because he contacted the HSCA about the bullet in evidence not being the one shot at him. One does not stir up the waters like that if you are guilty; being really quiet is a good strategy. Normally, I would suspect Walker because he was yet another one who was friends with the perp H.L. Hunt. But, currently, I do not think Walker was involved.

Robert, I will read up on Landsdale, however the motive of 'wanting JFK dead' is abstract. Lots of people wanted JFK dead, and some of them were in Dealey Plaza that day - but that is not enough evidence to stand up in court.

No doubt Alan Dulles, who was one of the architects of the CFR and the CIA, and so was one of the architects of the post-War USA, would not have been especially impressed by JFK, and even less by RFK, and might have had a motive of revenge for having been fired as head of the CIA - a super-agency he helped to create. But as tempting as that sounds, it is still not enough proof.

As for LBJ, although he surely gained a great deal from the untimely death of JFK, that in itself is still not enough proof that he was a primary instigator (as Craig Zirbel concisely proposed in 1991). I find only evidence that LBJ was an accessory-after-the-fact, as LBJ knew full well who all the main players and ground-crew were who killed JFK; at minimum after receiving the private your-eyes-only Warren Report. (The theorists who pin the blame first on LBJ have showed uniformly weak argumentation, IMHO, starting with Zirbel, who was the ablest of them all.)

As for the Warren Commission, Allen Dulles knew it was weak, but he told his aide that all the truth was in there - if we read between the lines. I think that's correct.

As for blaming 'Texas oilmen' as the main instigators along with LBJ, again I say that hatred in itself is never a proof of murder. As for General Landsdale's involvement in Vietnam, Cuba and Operation Mongoose, I respond as follows: (1) JFK was of two minds about Vietnam; he expressed both pro and con positions in the same interview with Walter Cronkite; (2) JFK and RFK spent millions trying to kill Castro. That has been amply documented by Lamar Waldron before a host of others; (3) Operation Mongoose was RFK's personal project. (I once read that RFK was the one who came up with the name, Operation Mongoose.)

While it is important that Lansdale was the CIA's expert on coups, assassinations and propaganda (and I fully intend to look deeper into his biography) this in itself proves nothing at all. (I also intend to research other US Generals of that period, particularly any with neo-Nazi leanings, like General Walker.)

You currently have "no place" for Edwin Walker in the JFK assassination, but you say "that is mostly because he contacted the HSCA about the bullet in evidence not being the one shot at him." Yet you ignore the fact that Edwin Walker continually claimed that Oswald was actually one of his two shooters on 4/10/1963.

Also, you insist that people do not "stir up the waters" if they are guilty, and that a guilty Walker would have kept quiet, yet you ignore too many factors about Walker's state of mind. First, he was nearly discovered by Liebeler in his Warren Commission testimony when he was asked point blank if he new Helmut Muenchen, and Walker said no, when the FBI had material evidence that he spoke at length with Muenchen on 11/23/1963 at 7am, less than 24-hours after the JFK assassination. The topic was the JFK assassination, and Oswald's participation in the Walker shooting of 4/10/1963.

But nobody knew about the Oswald participation until Marina told the FBI in early December. So, how did General Walker find out? Why would he celebrate with the neo-Nazi Helmut Muenchen so soon after JFK's murder? This is too suspicious to omit.

Here is hard evidence that Walker was involved, IMHO, and Liebeler came within inches of the main discovery. Having been 'almost found out,' Walker spread his "Oswald was my second shooter" theory from that moment on - until his last year on earth. That is a guilty conscience speaking.

Also, you ignore the fact that the right-wing considered the Kennedys to have persecuted Walker for teaching John Birch Society ideals to his troops in Munich, Germany, and publicly "admonishing" him, and moving him out of his command to some isolated desk job.

Also, you ignore the fact that the right-wing considered the Kennedys to have persecuted Walker for advocating racial segregation at Ole Miss college in 1962, by arresting him and detaining him for psychiatric evaluation. (In my opinion, this is a credible material motive for revenge. Further, it would not have affected only General Walker, but also any extreme rightist US General who sypathized with Walker. If Landsdale were involved, I would want to investigate General Landsdale's relationship with General Walker first and foremost.

You currently don't suspect General Walker, but here are some people who did or do suspect General Walker: (1) Jack Ruby; (2) Dick Russell; (3) Richard Cordon; (4) Jerry P. Shinley; (5) Rick Stelnick; (6) Harry J. Dean.

There is plenty of evidence to bring Walker in for questioning. And his close relationship with H.L. Hunt is not even included in that evidence.

Best regards,
--Paul Trejo
(edit typos)

Edited by Paul Trejo, 01 January 2012 - 10:46 PM.





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