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JAGGARS CHILES STOVALL


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#1 Robert Walker

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Posted 13 August 2007 - 01:31 AM

As you can tell from my bio, I work at Southern Methodist University ("SMU"). When I moved to Dallas in 1999 I got a job at SMU's Center for Media & Instructional Technology ("CMIT"). The CMIT media librarian at the time (introduced to me as "Judy Childs") was in fact Judy Chiles, wife of Bill Chiles, part owner of Jaggars Chiles Stovall.

Well, you know, when I found that out I just went through the roof! So at one of our Chritmas parties, I approached Bill (who is a sweet guy) and I asked him point blank about Lee Harvey Oswald working for his company.

Bill stated that Oswald was generally a crappy employee, that we wore thick black military-type boots, was surly, and to the concern of Bill at least, walked around speaking in Russian.

Since they did some work for the US Government, Bill was concerned about this guy enough to call the FBI. Bill told the FBI that this guy named Oswald was clunking around in military boots, speaking in Russian and making a nuisance of himself. Bill said the FBI put him on hold, and then came back with (and I am paraphrasing here) "...yeah, we know about Oswald, he's okay."

For what it's worth.

Rob

#2 Jack White

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Posted 13 August 2007 - 01:50 AM

Interesting Robert!

As a one-time customer of Jaggars in nearby Fort Worth, I studied LHO's
time working there as a menial photostat operator job a great deal.

Since we know that LHO was an operation of some intel agency, we also
believe that HIS EVERY MOVE was ordered or controlled by his handlers.
His activities at Jaggars I believe were merely part of building his legend
as a "commie"...nothing more. He was not involved in sensitive secret
work, though the firm may have been. Sounds like he was not too good
an actor if someone at the firm called the FBI, which in effect blew his
cover.

Jack

#3 Nathaniel Heidenheimer

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Posted 13 August 2007 - 02:00 AM

Robert, thanks for starting a thread on this topic.


I have another question related to J-S

I've seen it mentioned that J-S mapped out U-2 photos from Cuba, the summer before the Missile Crisis.. Does anyone know the original source of this information? Is it from the WC? Do we have particular dates of the Cuban overflights that J-S handled during the time Oswald worked there?

Also how was the security check done for LHO's employment at J-S? Any paperwork on this, or was it signed at a Magnolia slideshow?

Edited by Nathaniel Heidenheimer, 13 August 2007 - 02:01 AM.


#4 Robert Walker

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Posted 13 August 2007 - 02:07 AM

Bill told me the hired Oswald through the state employment agency (whatever that was at the time).

#5 Jack White

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Posted 13 August 2007 - 03:12 AM

Robert, thanks for starting a thread on this topic.


I have another question related to J-S

I've seen it mentioned that J-S mapped out U-2 photos from Cuba, the summer before the Missile Crisis.. Does anyone know the original source of this information? Is it from the WC? Do we have particular dates of the Cuban overflights that J-S handled during the time Oswald worked there?

Also how was the security check done for LHO's employment at J-S? Any paperwork on this, or was it signed at a Magnolia slideshow?


I have seen documentation that Jaggars did have a department doing classified
govt work. But it seems speculation that LHO had anything to do with that, or any
photographic work. He operated a photostat camera, which was a 1960s version
of a copy machine. I owned three photostat cameras at one time, and a couple
hours of training was all needed to qualify an operator. LHO handlers got him
the JCS job as a temporizing move in the chess match.

Jack

#6 Jack White

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Posted 13 August 2007 - 03:18 AM

Bill told me the hired Oswald through the state employment agency (whatever that was at the time).


Maybe Bill had no "need to know". Intel ops work on a need to know basis.
They likely thought they were just doing a favor for a govt customer. And
of course, regular employment channels would be used. It would not be a
very good COVERT OPERATION if Naval Intelligence called up JCS and said
"we have a guy we'd like for you to hire till we have use for him in November".

Jack

#7 Robert Walker

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Posted 13 August 2007 - 02:21 PM

To me, it just adds fuel to the fire that Oswald had a relationship with government agencies like the FBI, and may have been used for some low level intelligence gathering.

#8 Mark Valenti

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Posted 13 August 2007 - 05:48 PM

To me, it just adds fuel to the fire that Oswald had a relationship with government agencies like the FBI, and may have been used for some low level intelligence gathering.


Exactly. Interesting he called the FBI rather than the police, first of all. Next, if one gives a name to the FBI and they find no files about them, they'd likely say he was 'O.K.' If they HAD files on the person ['we know all about him'] and
they said 'he's O.K' that is all but saying he is an asset, agent, double-agent, dangle, informant or some
such.......throw in the Russian mumbling and it really, REALLY looks suspicious - like he was told to act suspicious and be noticed.



Whoa, Nelly. Let's not go overboard here with the dot-connecting.

Remember the context of the times. Cold War, spies, no-good Commies everywhere. It's not *that* incredible that a good ole boy grew suspicious of a probable "pinko" spoutin' that Russky language and called the FBI instead of local police.

The FBI's reaction doesn't necessarily mean LHO was an asset, agent, double-agent, dangle, informant or some such. It could just mean that he was noted as a former "defector" and was considered a loser not worth anyone's attention.

That explanation's not as much fun as the other one but it's just as plausible.

#9 Antti Hynonen

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 10:14 AM

Robert (or anmyone else). I wonder if you know or can find out if the Stovall, as in Jaggars -Chiles -Stovall is related to Stovall, Richard S. Detective with the Homicide Bureau, City Police Department?

Thanks.
Antti

#10 James Richards

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 11:05 AM

Robert (or anmyone else). I wonder if you know or can find out if the Stovall, as in Jaggars -Chiles -Stovall is related to Stovall, Richard S. Detective with the Homicide Bureau, City Police Department?

Thanks.
Antti


Antti,

I don't think they are related but there is this. Tolbert F. Stovall (one of the founders of Jaggars Chiles Stovall) had a son named Robert L. Stovall.

Amongst other things (including being elected President of Jaggars Chiles Stovall in 1960), Robert was a co-owner of a company called Grinnan Development Co. The other owner was Lewis P. Grinnan Jr. who was the brother of Joseph Grinnan.

James

Edited by James Richards, 14 August 2007 - 11:08 AM.


#11 Steve Thomas

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 06:11 PM

Mark,

The FBI's reaction doesn't necessarily mean LHO was an asset, agent, double-agent, dangle, informant or some such. It could just mean that he was noted as a former "defector" and was considered a loser not worth anyone's attention.

That explanation's not as much fun as the other one but it's just as plausible.


Yeah, hadn't LHO been interviewed twice SA Fain by this time? Of course they knew about him.

I was more interested in Chiles' description of Oswald as "surly".

I'm not sure if it goes back to the Harvey and Lee business, but there seems to be two descriptions of the person being called Oswald.

One is surly and uncommunicative, one is likeable but quiet. His coworkers at the TSBD did not describe him as "surly".

Steve Thomas

#12 Robert Walker

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Posted 18 August 2007 - 12:11 AM

Well, in yet another weird coincidence, a Stovall (Billie) also works in our library!

Personally, I think that Oswald's "surliness" was an act. Much like when handing out leaflets in N.O. He clearly had a temper, but that seemed directed mostly at Marina.

#13 William Kelly

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Posted 01 September 2007 - 03:38 AM

As you can tell from my bio, I work at Southern Methodist University ("SMU"). When I moved to Dallas in 1999 I got a job at SMU's Center for Media & Instructional Technology ("CMIT"). The CMIT media librarian at the time (introduced to me as "Judy Childs") was in fact Judy Chiles, wife of Bill Chiles, part owner of Jaggars Chiles Stovall.

Well, you know, when I found that out I just went through the roof! So at one of our Chritmas parties, I approached Bill (who is a sweet guy) and I asked him point blank about Lee Harvey Oswald working for his company.

Bill stated that Oswald was generally a crappy employee, that we wore thick black military-type boots, was surly, and to the concern of Bill at least, walked around speaking in Russian.

Since they did some work for the US Government, Bill was concerned about this guy enough to call the FBI. Bill told the FBI that this guy named Oswald was clunking around in military boots, speaking in Russian and making a nuisance of himself. Bill said the FBI put him on hold, and then came back with (and I am paraphrasing here) "...yeah, we know about Oswald, he's okay."

For what it's worth.

Rob



Thanks for that Rob,

And of course JCS is a very important outfit.

At the time LHO worked there JCS did map work for the Army Security Agency, placing captions, arrows and notations on U2 photos - including October 1962, when U2 photos positively demonstrated the presence of USSR nuke missiles in Cuba.

It was while working at JCS when Oswald wrote the word "Microdot" in his notebook, and JCS, as a premiere graphics arts firm in Dallas had impressive technical facilities, which Oswald is said to have used to manufacture various identifications and documents.

Oswald worked with Dennis Ofstein (sp?) at JCS, and discussed with Oswald, what he learned of Soviet military deployments while living in USSR, and another JCS employee, John Caesar Grassi (aka Jack Leslie Bowen), is listed as a reference on Oswald's New Orleans library card. Grassi/Bowen is one of the most interesting and least investigated characters in the whole JFK assassination drama.

BK

#14 Mike Breckenridge

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 06:36 PM

Robert (or anmyone else). I wonder if you know or can find out if the Stovall, as in Jaggars -Chiles -Stovall is related to Stovall, Richard S. Detective with the Homicide Bureau, City Police Department?

Thanks.
Antti


Antti,

I don't think they are related but there is this. Tolbert F. Stovall (one of the founders of Jaggars Chiles Stovall) had a son named Robert L. Stovall.

Amongst other things (including being elected President of Jaggars Chiles Stovall in 1960), Robert was a co-owner of a company called Grinnan Development Co. The other owner was Lewis P. Grinnan Jr. who was the brother of Joseph Grinnan.

James



1. They were not related.
2. Regarding Grinnan Development Co. and Robert Stovall being a co-owner, were are you coming up with this information?
-Mike

#15 Jack White

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 07:53 PM

As a customer of JCS for more than 20 years, I know their operation
better than most researchers.

JCS was PRIMARILY A TYPESETTING COMPANY. Typesetting I daresay
accounted for 95 percent of their business. As a convenience to their
customers (mostly ad agencies), they also had a photo department
which produced photostats, negatives and azo prints to size. Any
secret contracts they had with the govt are, well, secret...and not
related to their basic business.

I studied all of the LHO timecards from JCS in the WC volumes. IF they
are truthful, he spent ALL of his time operating a photostat camera.
He was not involved in secret operations, nor did he have access to
sophisticated camera equipment. He just operated a stat camera.
I have owned three stat cameras; I have one stored away just
because I hate to throw away a $14,000 camera in perfect working
condition. I can teach anyone to operate a stat camera in an hour,
so LHO's photo skills were minimal.

Jack




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