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Was Gedney CIA?


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#1 Steve Thomas

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 05:41 PM

John Forrester Gedney was one of the three tramps arrested in the railyards on November 22, 1963.


This was posted on a blog called Cannonfire by someone named Joseph on August 17, 2007 concerning a man named Larry Kolb:

http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/

The blog by Joseph contains some errors, but the thrust of the article is intriguing.

"Having made rather too many enemies in the clandestine world, Kolbe finds himself in a safe house in Florida. He spends a number of pages indicating that this small town functions as a sort of retirement village for spooks. (In much the same way, old carnies would retire to Gibtown, also in Florida.) Faded spies are everywhere. Even the guy who bags his groceries is an old KGB defector -- literally a bag-man.

And guess who else happens to live in Spook Central?

There was also John Forrester Gedney. Mr. Gedney retired recently after more than twenty years as a code inspector, inspecting houses, like mine, for compliance with building codes. You may have heard his name in the movie J.F.K., or read it in a book. For, as Mr. Gedney announced, and proved, last year [2003], he was one of the three railway tramps arrested behind the grassy knoll in Dallas on November 22, 1963. He was the tall one in the grainy, mysterious photograph used so often by conspiracy theorists as evidence that the CIA and other dark forces were behind the assassination of our president.

Gedny shared a cell block with Lee Harvey Oswald. Unlike Oswald, Gedney made it out alive...
Actually, Gedney is not mentioned in Oliver Stone's 1991 film; he had not "come out" at that time.

The film does reference the identification made by the late CIA/Air Force liaison L. Fletcher Prouty -- who felt that the "tramp" in question was none other than Edward Lansdale, with whom Prouty worked closely. (Lansdale later said that he considered Prouty too paranoid!) The photographic identification was seconded by Lt. General Victor Krulak., who also knew Lansdale well.

As noted earlier, I suspect that Larry Kolb may be the son of Ed Lansdale.

And even if he is not, we can still safely presume that "Lewis Kolb" worked closely with Lansdale in the Philippines. The man Prouty believed was in Dealey Plaza on November 22, 1963 was either Larry's Dad or one of his many spooky "Uncles."

Also worth noting: Larry Kolb mentions, in his acknowledgments, that he asked Oliver Stone to read the manuscript of his book. How did Kolb come to know Stone? I have heard previously that Stone made an attempt to contact Lansdale's family.

Is Kolb hinting that we should take another look at the Gedney story? While fingerprint evidence does place Gedney in the Dallas jail that day, such evidence can be, as the spies say, "backstopped." We really only have Gedney's word for it that he was a vagabond and a tramp at that point in his life.

One can easily comprehend why the Agency would want to place one of their own contacts near Oswald in that jail.

Gedney lives in Melbourne, Florida. Presumably, this was the location of Kolb's safe house -- and of all those other "former" intelligence officers, including the KGB guy turned bag-man. (The name of the town is not mentioned in Overworld.) Melbourne also happens to be the home town of two private "spooked up" airlines run by the notorious Blackwater corporation.

If you happen to pass through that burg, and if you run into either John Gedney or Larry Kolb, tell 'em I said "Hi.""

From Mary Ferrell’s database:

"LAST GEDNEY FIRST JOHN MID/AKA FORRESTER
ADDRESS 356 Arlington St., Melbourne, FL 32927 (in 1992)
'PHONE (h) (407) 777-7932; (o) (407) 727-2900
SOURCES Houston Post, Sun. 2/9/92 (A-27); 89A-DL-60165-15 (MMF 2338);
89A-DL-60165-16 (MMF 2342, MMF 2344); 89A-DL-60165-20 (MMF 2348-2352); 89A-DL-60165-22 (MMF 2354); 89A-DL-60165-27 (MMF 2365); 89A-DL-60165-56 (MMF 2479)
COMMENT Age: 38. DOB: 2/2/25. POB: Revier, Massachusetts or Orlando, FL (?).
SS No. 253-26-4169. 6' 1", 190 lbs. In U.S. Air Force Sept. 5, 1941,
to October 2, 1945. Serial # 20480183. Honorable Discharge. Married
in Dade County, FL, in 1960. Wife: Lillian Hickman (deceased in 1967).
No children. Reported to be one of 3 "tramps" arrested in train boxcar
11/22/63; "they are passing through town. They have no means of
support". Report written by Wm. E. Chambers. He was released at 9:00
a.m., 11/26/63. (See Harold Doyle and Gus Abrams). Oliver B. "Buck"
Revell, Special Agent in Charge of Dallas FBI Office, confirmed that he
interviewed Doyle and Gedney and they were the tramps in Dealey Plaza
11/22/63 with Gus Abrams, who is now deceased. There is alleged to be a
sealed case on file in Boston, Massachusetts, on Gedney.

In 1992, “Gedney said that he felt that he was interviewed by some Federal Agent who verified Gedney’s identity by calling Miami to determine that Gedney’s identity was correct”.

FBI interview with Gedney 3/6/92

He talks again of being interviewed by a Federal Agent, who asked that he call his wife to prove who he was. “Gedney said he got the impression that this Federal person had called which he said he had and then noted that they have nothing on any of you”.

FBI Interview by SA Durham with Harold Doyle 2/20/92 (89-DL-43) (P)

“Doyle recalled that at the Dallas City Jail, a Federal guy told him that they were lucky because they got to see the man who killed Kennedy, later identified as Lee Harvey Oswald, in person”. (Later identified?)

Why do no FBI reports appear contemporaneous with their arrest?

Why do both Gedney and Harold Doyle say that they were fingerprinted, and yet no fingerprints appear on their arrest reports?

Were the arrest reports manufactured long after 1963?

Was Gedney CIA and when the FBI ran the tramps’ fingerprints, they dropped it like a hot potato?

Steve Thomas

#2 Steve Thomas

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 06:14 PM

According to the Social Security Death Index, John F. Gedney died April 23, 2003.

Steve Thomas

#3 Jack White

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 06:43 PM

John Forrester Gedney was one of the three tramps arrested in the railyards on November 22, 1963.


This was posted on a blog called Cannonfire by someone named Joseph on August 17, 2007 concerning a man named Larry Kolb:

http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/

The blog by Joseph contains some errors, but the thrust of the article is intriguing.

"Having made rather too many enemies in the clandestine world, Kolbe finds himself in a safe house in Florida. He spends a number of pages indicating that this small town functions as a sort of retirement village for spooks. (In much the same way, old carnies would retire to Gibtown, also in Florida.) Faded spies are everywhere. Even the guy who bags his groceries is an old KGB defector -- literally a bag-man.

And guess who else happens to live in Spook Central?

There was also John Forrester Gedney. Mr. Gedney retired recently after more than twenty years as a code inspector, inspecting houses, like mine, for compliance with building codes. You may have heard his name in the movie J.F.K., or read it in a book. For, as Mr. Gedney announced, and proved, last year [2003], he was one of the three railway tramps arrested behind the grassy knoll in Dallas on November 22, 1963. He was the tall one in the grainy, mysterious photograph used so often by conspiracy theorists as evidence that the CIA and other dark forces were behind the assassination of our president.

Gedny shared a cell block with Lee Harvey Oswald. Unlike Oswald, Gedney made it out alive...
Actually, Gedney is not mentioned in Oliver Stone's 1991 film; he had not "come out" at that time.

The film does reference the identification made by the late CIA/Air Force liaison L. Fletcher Prouty -- who felt that the "tramp" in question was none other than Edward Lansdale, with whom Prouty worked closely. (Lansdale later said that he considered Prouty too paranoid!) The photographic identification was seconded by Lt. General Victor Krulak., who also knew Lansdale well.

As noted earlier, I suspect that Larry Kolb may be the son of Ed Lansdale.

And even if he is not, we can still safely presume that "Lewis Kolb" worked closely with Lansdale in the Philippines. The man Prouty believed was in Dealey Plaza on November 22, 1963 was either Larry's Dad or one of his many spooky "Uncles."

Also worth noting: Larry Kolb mentions, in his acknowledgments, that he asked Oliver Stone to read the manuscript of his book. How did Kolb come to know Stone? I have heard previously that Stone made an attempt to contact Lansdale's family.

Is Kolb hinting that we should take another look at the Gedney story? While fingerprint evidence does place Gedney in the Dallas jail that day, such evidence can be, as the spies say, "backstopped." We really only have Gedney's word for it that he was a vagabond and a tramp at that point in his life.

One can easily comprehend why the Agency would want to place one of their own contacts near Oswald in that jail.

Gedney lives in Melbourne, Florida. Presumably, this was the location of Kolb's safe house -- and of all those other "former" intelligence officers, including the KGB guy turned bag-man. (The name of the town is not mentioned in Overworld.) Melbourne also happens to be the home town of two private "spooked up" airlines run by the notorious Blackwater corporation.

If you happen to pass through that burg, and if you run into either John Gedney or Larry Kolb, tell 'em I said "Hi.""

From Mary Ferrell’s database:

"LAST GEDNEY FIRST JOHN MID/AKA FORRESTER
ADDRESS 356 Arlington St., Melbourne, FL 32927 (in 1992)
'PHONE (h) (407) 777-7932; (o) (407) 727-2900
SOURCES Houston Post, Sun. 2/9/92 (A-27); 89A-DL-60165-15 (MMF 2338);
89A-DL-60165-16 (MMF 2342, MMF 2344); 89A-DL-60165-20 (MMF 2348-2352); 89A-DL-60165-22 (MMF 2354); 89A-DL-60165-27 (MMF 2365); 89A-DL-60165-56 (MMF 2479)
COMMENT Age: 38. DOB: 2/2/25. POB: Revier, Massachusetts or Orlando, FL (?).
SS No. 253-26-4169. 6' 1", 190 lbs. In U.S. Air Force Sept. 5, 1941,
to October 2, 1945. Serial # 20480183. Honorable Discharge. Married
in Dade County, FL, in 1960. Wife: Lillian Hickman (deceased in 1967).
No children. Reported to be one of 3 "tramps" arrested in train boxcar
11/22/63; "they are passing through town. They have no means of
support". Report written by Wm. E. Chambers. He was released at 9:00
a.m., 11/26/63. (See Harold Doyle and Gus Abrams). Oliver B. "Buck"
Revell, Special Agent in Charge of Dallas FBI Office, confirmed that he
interviewed Doyle and Gedney and they were the tramps in Dealey Plaza
11/22/63 with Gus Abrams, who is now deceased. There is alleged to be a
sealed case on file in Boston, Massachusetts, on Gedney.

In 1992, “Gedney said that he felt that he was interviewed by some Federal Agent who verified Gedney’s identity by calling Miami to determine that Gedney’s identity was correct”.

FBI interview with Gedney 3/6/92

He talks again of being interviewed by a Federal Agent, who asked that he call his wife to prove who he was. “Gedney said he got the impression that this Federal person had called which he said he had and then noted that they have nothing on any of you”.

FBI Interview by SA Durham with Harold Doyle 2/20/92 (89-DL-43) (P)

“Doyle recalled that at the Dallas City Jail, a Federal guy told him that they were lucky because they got to see the man who killed Kennedy, later identified as Lee Harvey Oswald, in person”. (Later identified?)

Why do no FBI reports appear contemporaneous with their arrest?

Why do both Gedney and Harold Doyle say that they were fingerprinted, and yet no fingerprints appear on their arrest reports?

Were the arrest reports manufactured long after 1963?

Was Gedney CIA and when the FBI ran the tramps’ fingerprints, they dropped it like a hot potato?

Steve Thomas


Like the bogus arrest reports, the above is filled with misinformation. Interesting, however,
is that there was a person of that name connected with the CIA.

Jack

#4 Steve Thomas

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 09:45 PM

Jack,

Like the bogus arrest reports, the above is filled with misinformation. Interesting, however,
is that there was a person of that name connected with the CIA.

Jack


I thought it was interesting. If you look at Mary Ferrell's database...

Why would a person get married at age 35 in 1960, and then be wandering the country as a hobo in 1963?

The last line in the database entry is intriguing.

Steve Thomas

#5 James Richards

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 10:15 PM

Steve,

The whole Kolb thing is a minefield. Larry Kolb kind of reminds me of Gordon Novel. Everywhere but nowhere.

I'm not sure if you remember or not but in the mid 1980's, there was a photo floating around showing Mohammed Ali, Jesse Jackson and a guy in the background who looked a lot like Elvis Presley who had died in 1977. Anyway, the Elvis look-a-like was supposedly Larry Kolb.

I have no idea if it is or not but one thing is for sure, Lewis Jackson Kolb is someone of enormous interest.

This is Lewis Kolb below.

James

#6 Jack White

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 11:25 PM

Jack,

Like the bogus arrest reports, the above is filled with misinformation. Interesting, however,
is that there was a person of that name connected with the CIA.

Jack


I thought it was interesting. If you look at Mary Ferrell's database...

Why would a person get married at age 35 in 1960, and then be wandering the country as a hobo in 1963?

The last line in the database entry is intriguing.

Steve Thomas


Unfortunately my old Mac is unable to access Mary's website because
it is configured only for Mac OSX or higher, and my OS is 9.2. So I am
not able to look at the last line. What is intriguing about it?

Jack

#7 James Richards

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 11:34 PM

Jack,

I believe this is the last line in question -

There is alleged to be a sealed case on file in Boston, Massachusetts, on Gedney.

FWIW.

James

#8 Cliff Varnell

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 11:43 PM

You may have heard his name in the movie J.F.K...

...Actually, Gedney is not mentioned in Oliver Stone's 1991 film; he had not "come out" at that time.



...Uh, pardon me?


The film does reference the identification made by the late CIA/Air Force liaison L. Fletcher Prouty -- who felt that the "tramp" in question was none other than Edward Lansdale, with whom Prouty worked closely. (Lansdale later said that he considered Prouty too paranoid!) The photographic identification was seconded by Lt. General Victor Krulak., who also knew Lansdale well.



Sloppy sloppy.

Prouty and Krulak IDd the gent with the stooped right shoulder, the turned left hand
w/class ring photographed with the 3 tramps.

Posted Image

http://www.ratical.o...K/USO/appD.html

Edited by Cliff Varnell, 20 August 2007 - 11:44 PM.


#9 Jack White

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 11:46 PM

Jack,

I believe this is the last line in question -

There is alleged to be a sealed case on file in Boston, Massachusetts, on Gedney.

FWIW.

James



Thanks, James.

In the Arnold thread, would you please post the Trask photo of the two cops
looking at the park bench (page 75).

Thanks.

Jack

#10 Antti Hynonen

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 08:50 AM

Of interest also is one Edmund Kolbe of none other than Florida. Supposedly a Finnish immigrant with involvement in Anti-Castro Cubans of the 1960's. It would be interesting to know what Edmund Kolbe's true background and activites are. I very much doubt the immigrant from Finland story as long as we don't know his original name and more of what he has done.

I wonder if there are any ties to the Larry Kolb(e) mentioned in this thread?

#11 James Richards

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 11:23 AM

Of interest also is one Edmund Kolbe of none other than Florida. Supposedly a Finnish immigrant with involvement in Anti-Castro Cubans of the 1960's. It would be interesting to know what Edmund Kolbe's true background and activites are. I very much doubt the immigrant from Finland story as long as we don't know his original name and more of what he has done.

I wonder if there are any ties to the Larry Kolb(e) mentioned in this thread?


Antti,

Ed Kolby's connections to Robert Emmett Johnson and several of the Interpen guys do make him someone of interest but I have spoken with him at length on many topics and it is my opinion that he wasn't involved with anything that happened on the 22nd of November 1963.

As far as the name Kolb goes, I seem to remember that such a person was involved (propaganda and the like) with a character named Anton Erdinger who was mixed up with the German Communist Party.

It is alleged that Erdinger made a comment during JFK's visit to Germany that Oswald would get him back in the United States.

I think Bill Kelly might know more about this Erdinger.

James

#12 Steve Thomas

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 03:36 PM

Cliff,

You may have heard his name in the movie J.F.K...

...Actually, Gedney is not mentioned in Oliver Stone's 1991 film; he had not "come out" at that time.



...Uh, pardon me?


Prouty and Krulak IDd the gent with the stooped right shoulder, the turned left hand
w/class ring photographed with the 3 tramps.



Yes, the arrest records on the tramps were not unearthed until 1992.

The poster corrects his earlier blog entry in a posting dated August 20, 2007.

http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/

Steve Thomas

#13 Antti Hynonen

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Posted 22 August 2007 - 02:30 PM

James Richards Posted Yesterday, 10:23 AM
QUOTE(Antti Hynonen @ Aug 21 2007, 05:50 PM)
Of interest also is one Edmund Kolbe of none other than Florida. Supposedly a Finnish immigrant with involvement in Anti-Castro Cubans of the 1960's. It would be interesting to know what Edmund Kolbe's true background and activites are. I very much doubt the immigrant from Finland story as long as we don't know his original name and more of what he has done.

I wonder if there are any ties to the Larry Kolb(e) mentioned in this thread?


Antti,

Ed Kolby's connections to Robert Emmett Johnson and several of the Interpen guys do make him someone of interest but I have spoken with him at length on many topics and it is my opinion that he wasn't involved with anything that happened on the 22nd of November 1963.

As far as the name Kolb goes, I seem to remember that such a person was involved (propaganda and the like) with a character named Anton Erdinger who was mixed up with the German Communist Party.

It is alleged that Erdinger made a comment during JFK's visit to Germany that Oswald would get him back in the United States.

I think Bill Kelly might know more about this Erdinger.

James


Thank you James. I'm still curious about E. Kolbe. I wonder what his original name was and how and why he ended up in the US.




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