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The 3 Men on the Steps


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#1 Don Bailey

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 09:55 AM

Hello, I'm a newbie on this forum. My investigation of the JFK assassination has always led me to believe that the 3 men on the stairs are... Jack Lawrence (man who ran up the steps after the shooting), E. Howard Hunt (standing next to Jack), and Emmett Hudson (standing on the lower step below the other two). This has always been my interpretation beyond what the WC states!!

#2 Lee Forman

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 04:54 AM

Hello, I'm a newbie on this forum. My investigation of the JFK assassination has always led me to believe that the 3 men on the stairs are... Jack Lawrence (man who ran up the steps after the shooting), E. Howard Hunt (standing next to Jack), and Emmett Hudson (standing on the lower step below the other two). This has always been my interpretation beyond what the WC states!!


Hello Don.

What leads you to these conclusions?

Hudson is the man at the top of the stairs, seen at the left in the Moorman. Aside from how he appears in the Moorman [missing top part of his head, a bloated body, broken leg, etc.], he is seen in a number of the aftermath shots, including Towner. He was elderly at the time of the assassination. His being seen on the ground in a number of aftermath photos is also consistent with his affidavit and testimony.

Jack Lawrence was wearing a suit that day, was he not?

I doubt that EH would have wanted to allow himself to be seen like that. He may be the man in the hat, sunglasses and trench coat, seen crossing the grass headed towards Elm in the [possible] Cancellare photo. It may also be him standing on the Main St corner.

A third man on the stairs is never mentioned by Hudson. Hudson is never presented with anything significant in terms of the photographic record for comment during his questioning - consistent with the slant of the Whitewash Report, the opposite occurred [see exhibits from Hudon's testimony]. He also fails to appear in the Willis photo, which only gives him seconds to arrive on the scene to be captured by Muchmore, Nix and Moorman, and then turn and run away. This behavior is also not consistent with Hudson's account.

- lee

#3 Don Bailey

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 09:43 AM

Hello, I'm a newbie on this forum. My investigation of the JFK assassination has always led me to believe that the 3 men on the stairs are... Jack Lawrence (man who ran up the steps after the shooting), E. Howard Hunt (standing next to Jack), and Emmett Hudson (standing on the lower step below the other two). This has always been my interpretation beyond what the WC states!!


Hello Don.

What leads you to these conclusions?

Hudson is the man at the top of the stairs, seen at the left in the Moorman. Aside from how he appears in the Moorman [missing top part of his head, a bloated body, broken leg, etc.], he is seen in a number of the aftermath shots, including Towner. He was elderly at the time of the assassination. His being seen on the ground in a number of aftermath photos is also consistent with his affidavit and testimony.

Jack Lawrence was wearing a suit that day, was he not?

I doubt that EH would have wanted to allow himself to be seen like that. He may be the man in the hat, sunglasses and trench coat, seen crossing the grass headed towards Elm in the [possible] Cancellare photo. It may also be him standing on the Main St corner.

A third man on the stairs is never mentioned by Hudson. Hudson is never presented with anything significant in terms of the photographic record for comment during his questioning - consistent with the slant of the Whitewash Report, the opposite occurred [see exhibits from Hudon's testimony]. He also fails to appear in the Willis photo, which only gives him seconds to arrive on the scene to be captured by Muchmore, Nix and Moorman, and then turn and run away. This behavior is also not consistent with Hudson's account.

- lee



Hello Lee,

I base my conclusion on many different photographs and films of the men on the stairs. First of all, I believe EHH was the old man tramp from the photos of the three hobos. The clothes of the man on the stairs match the old hobo's clothing as they were marched thru Dealy Plaza.

EHH was filmed by Zapruder as "Helmet Hat Man" thru the pyracanta bush and his elf ear is exposed showing that EHH is the man on the steps.

EHH was the head coordinator of the JFK assassination and had front row seats since he was in charge of the assassination!!!

Too many inconsistencies with Emmett Hudson's story make me not a believer in his WC testimony... he says the young man kept telling him to get down but it's not what the pictures and the films show. His testimony seems like he is the man in the red shirt on the steps.

I'll get to Jack Lawrence studies in a later thread.

Don B.

#4 Don Bailey

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 09:58 AM

Hello, I'm a newbie on this forum. My investigation of the JFK assassination has always led me to believe that the 3 men on the stairs are... Jack Lawrence (man who ran up the steps after the shooting), E. Howard Hunt (standing next to Jack), and Emmett Hudson (standing on the lower step below the other two). This has always been my interpretation beyond what the WC states!!


Hello Don.

What leads you to these conclusions?

Hudson is the man at the top of the stairs, seen at the left in the Moorman. Aside from how he appears in the Moorman [missing top part of his head, a bloated body, broken leg, etc.], he is seen in a number of the aftermath shots, including Towner. He was elderly at the time of the assassination. His being seen on the ground in a number of aftermath photos is also consistent with his affidavit and testimony.

Jack Lawrence was wearing a suit that day, was he not?

I doubt that EH would have wanted to allow himself to be seen like that. He may be the man in the hat, sunglasses and trench coat, seen crossing the grass headed towards Elm in the [possible] Cancellare photo. It may also be him standing on the Main St corner.

A third man on the stairs is never mentioned by Hudson. Hudson is never presented with anything significant in terms of the photographic record for comment during his questioning - consistent with the slant of the Whitewash Report, the opposite occurred [see exhibits from Hudon's testimony]. He also fails to appear in the Willis photo, which only gives him seconds to arrive on the scene to be captured by Muchmore, Nix and Moorman, and then turn and run away. This behavior is also not consistent with Hudson's account.

- lee


Hello Lee,

I base my conclusion on many different photographs and films of the men on the stairs. First of all, I believe EHH was the old man tramp from the photos of the three hobos. The clothes of the man on the stairs match the old hobo's clothing as they were marched thru Dealy Plaza.

EHH was filmed by Zapruder as "Helmet Hat Man" thru the pyracanta bush and his elf ear is exposed showing that EHH is the man on the steps.

EHH was the head coordinator of the JFK assassination and had front row seats since he was in charge of the assassination!!!

Too many inconsistencies with Emmett Hudson's story make me not a believer in his WC testimony... he says the young man kept telling him to get down but it's not what the pictures and the films show. His testimony seems like he is the man in the red shirt on the steps.

I'll get to Jack Lawrence studies in a later thread.

Don B.

#5 Bill Miller

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 11:47 AM

Hello Lee,

I base my conclusion on many different photographs and films of the men on the stairs. First of all, I believe EHH was the old man tramp from the photos of the three hobos. The clothes of the man on the stairs match the old hobo's clothing as they were marched thru Dealy Plaza.

EHH was filmed by Zapruder as "Helmet Hat Man" thru the pyracanta bush and his elf ear is exposed showing that EHH is the man on the steps.

EHH was the head coordinator of the JFK assassination and had front row seats since he was in charge of the assassination!!!

Too many inconsistencies with Emmett Hudson's story make me not a believer in his WC testimony... he says the young man kept telling him to get down but it's not what the pictures and the films show. His testimony seems like he is the man in the red shirt on the steps.

I'll get to Jack Lawrence studies in a later thread.

Don B.


Don,

I would listen to Lee a little harder if I were you. The tramp you are talking about had on a darker shirt and he and Hudson's hats are no where close to being the same. Hudson was a grounds-keeper for the plaza - his hat was rounded on top and that's why it is him seen through the pyracantha bush. Towner three shows Hudson sitting on the ground and Emmett had bushy thick hair - the tramp did not!

If it was Groden who led you believe that it was anyone but Hudson seen through the pyracantha bush - you should know that Robert will be changing that claim and correcting it in his upcoming book.

Bill

Edited by Bill Miller, 18 September 2007 - 11:48 AM.


#6 Jack White

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 02:21 PM

I tried enhancing the Towner man in the red shirt every way
I could think of. The shirt does not appear to be plaid.

Jack

#7 Don Bailey

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Posted 19 September 2007 - 09:46 AM

Hello Lee,

I base my conclusion on many different photographs and films of the men on the stairs. First of all, I believe EHH was the old man tramp from the photos of the three hobos. The clothes of the man on the stairs match the old hobo's clothing as they were marched thru Dealy Plaza.

EHH was filmed by Zapruder as "Helmet Hat Man" thru the pyracanta bush and his elf ear is exposed showing that EHH is the man on the steps.

EHH was the head coordinator of the JFK assassination and had front row seats since he was in charge of the assassination!!!

Too many inconsistencies with Emmett Hudson's story make me not a believer in his WC testimony... he says the young man kept telling him to get down but it's not what the pictures and the films show. His testimony seems like he is the man in the red shirt on the steps.

I'll get to Jack Lawrence studies in a later thread.

Don B.


Don,

I would listen to Lee a little harder if I were you. The tramp you are talking about had on a darker shirt and he and Hudson's hats are no where close to being the same. Hudson was a grounds-keeper for the plaza - his hat was rounded on top and that's why it is him seen through the pyracantha bush. Towner three shows Hudson sitting on the ground and Emmett had bushy thick hair - the tramp did not!

If it was Groden who led you believe that it was anyone but Hudson seen through the pyracantha bush - you should know that Robert will be changing that claim and correcting it in his upcoming book.

Bill


Hello Bill,

I've studied all of the photos and films and have come to the conclusion that ALL of the photos and films were in some way faked to side with the WC and to hide the identities of the conspirators. A close-up of the Towner three does show EHH/Tramp getting ready to standup, he has a blur at the top of his head so you cannot tell what kind of hat he is wearing if he is wearing one at all. Now look at his shirt in the close-up, see the question mark? You'll find a question mark in many of the photos when thoroughly examined.

Your bushy hair idea is new to me... can you please tell me the source that ID's Hudson as having bushy gray hair?? Any photo of Hudson would be greatly appreciated.

The EHH tramp has on several layers of clothing as seen in the Tramp photos. Those pants are a dead giveaway to his identity... view the attachment to see EHH's favorite pair of pants.

Don

#8 Ron Ecker

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Posted 19 September 2007 - 02:53 PM

One thing I noticed about the two men with Hudson in a good clip from the Muchmore film (which I don't have to post) is that both look surprised by what they see and/or hear. The man in the red shirt is clapping, then stops with hands spread as if saying "What?" At the same time the man standing beside Hudson quickly turns with one leg raised in what looks to me like a startle reaction to a shot, and/or seeing JFK's head opened up.

One thing I noticed in still frames of the man beside Hudson is that he seems to have something (appearing as black shadow) on his hip (a radio?) that is not part of the shadow behind him.


Posted Image

#9 Bill Miller

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Posted 19 September 2007 - 03:50 PM

Hello Bill,

I've studied all of the photos and films and have come to the conclusion that ALL of the photos and films were in some way faked to side with the WC and to hide the identities of the conspirators. A close-up of the Towner three does show EHH/Tramp getting ready to standup, he has a blur at the top of his head so you cannot tell what kind of hat he is wearing if he is wearing one at all. Now look at his shirt in the close-up, see the question mark? You'll find a question mark in many of the photos when thoroughly examined.

Your bushy hair idea is new to me... can you please tell me the source that ID's Hudson as having bushy gray hair?? Any photo of Hudson would be greatly appreciated.

The EHH tramp has on several layers of clothing as seen in the Tramp photos. Those pants are a dead giveaway to his identity... view the attachment to see EHH's favorite pair of pants.

Don


Don,

With all due respect ... you couldn't even notice that the tramp had on a dark shirt and Hudson had on a light one. This would go hand in hand with your comment that all the films and photos of the assassination were faked. You must really be new to all of this, so I will leave you with a few facts and then not waste more time on this.

Moorman's photo was filmed for TV not 35 minutes after the shooting and while it had never left Moorman's possession. That image was aired on TV not three hours after it was filmed. Mary's photo shows Emmett Hudson wearing a light colored shirt that matched his pants just as one would expect because Hudson was a grounds keeper for the plaza.

Hudson's bushy white hair comes from several sources - two of which I will give you. In Groden's book "The Killing of a President" there is an excellent enlargement of the Towner #3 photo and it shows Emmett sitting on the ground near the tree on the slope. Emmett's thick bushy white hair is pretty evident in that photo.

The other source for Emmett's bushy white hair came from his son (William Hudson) who I interviewed some years ago.

I hope the infromation has helped you for you have a long way to go to learn the facts about much of this stuff.

Good luck,

Bill

Edited by Bill Miller, 19 September 2007 - 03:51 PM.


#10 Miles Scull

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Posted 19 September 2007 - 05:04 PM

I tried enhancing the Towner man in the red shirt every way
I could think of. The shirt does not appear to be plaid.

Jack


Jack,

Can you get Bernie to post your work on this question?

I'm getting different results. Thx

Posted Image

#11 Tim Gratz

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Posted 19 September 2007 - 08:49 PM

Mr. Bailey:

Congratulations! I think you have brilliantly solved one of the biggest problems facing those who argue, e.g. that the Zapruder film was altered. One of the primary arguments against the Zapruder film alteration theory is that another photographer (film or movie) would have filmed something that would prove the alteration of the Zapruder film, thus in fact proving a conspiracy. This argument had always made sense to me.

But you have solved this problem with your novel thesis that ALL of the films and photos were somehow faked to support the LN theory of the WC.

Of course the conspirators would have had to seize and alter every single film and photo taken in DP at the time of the assassination, just as you concluded they did. It is the only logical answer to that argument.

Do you have any idea how many conspirators were involved in this film alteration project, by the way?

One last question: are you putting us on?

#12 Bill Miller

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Posted 19 September 2007 - 11:16 PM

I tried enhancing the Towner man in the red shirt every way
I could think of. The shirt does not appear to be plaid.

Jack


Jack,

Can you get Bernie to post your work on this question?

I'm getting different results. Thx

Posted Image


One of the first things I learned early on was how things look differently in a computer generated image Vs. looking at a raw image from a slide. The computer generated image can be misleading ... Just so you know!

Bill Miller


#13 Jack White

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Posted 20 September 2007 - 06:00 AM

I tried enhancing the Towner man in the red shirt every way
I could think of. The shirt does not appear to be plaid.

Jack


Jack,

Can you get Bernie to post your work on this question?

I'm getting different results. Thx

Posted Image


One of the first things I learned early on was how things look differently in a computer generated image Vs. looking at a raw image from a slide. The computer generated image can be misleading ... Just so you know!

Bill Miller


That is NOT a computer ENHANCEMENT, but a DEGRADATION...that gives it a pixelated "plaid"
look.

Jack

#14 Don Bailey

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Posted 20 September 2007 - 09:26 AM

Hello Bill,

I've studied all of the photos and films and have come to the conclusion that ALL of the photos and films were in some way faked to side with the WC and to hide the identities of the conspirators. A close-up of the Towner three does show EHH/Tramp getting ready to standup, he has a blur at the top of his head so you cannot tell what kind of hat he is wearing if he is wearing one at all. Now look at his shirt in the close-up, see the question mark? You'll find a question mark in many of the photos when thoroughly examined.

Your bushy hair idea is new to me... can you please tell me the source that ID's Hudson as having bushy gray hair?? Any photo of Hudson would be greatly appreciated.

The EHH tramp has on several layers of clothing as seen in the Tramp photos. Those pants are a dead giveaway to his identity... view the attachment to see EHH's favorite pair of pants.

Don


Don,

With all due respect ... you couldn't even notice that the tramp had on a dark shirt and Hudson had on a light one. This would go hand in hand with your comment that all the films and photos of the assassination were faked. You must really be new to all of this, so I will leave you with a few facts and then not waste more time on this.

Moorman's photo was filmed for TV not 35 minutes after the shooting and while it had never left Moorman's possession. That image was aired on TV not three hours after it was filmed. Mary's photo shows Emmett Hudson wearing a light colored shirt that matched his pants just as one would expect because Hudson was a grounds keeper for the plaza.

Hudson's bushy white hair comes from several sources - two of which I will give you. In Groden's book "The Killing of a President" there is an excellent enlargement of the Towner #3 photo and it shows Emmett sitting on the ground near the tree on the slope. Emmett's thick bushy white hair is pretty evident in that photo.

The other source for Emmett's bushy white hair came from his son (William Hudson) who I interviewed some years ago.

I hope the infromation has helped you for you have a long way to go to learn the facts about much of this stuff.

Good luck,

Bill



Bill,

You are correct. Iím new to this forum as stated in the first line of this thread. After reading this forum for almost two years I was finally able to signup so I can discuss some of my findings that Iíve made over the 14 years of investigation into the JFK assassination

I did address the issue of a light shirt by saying the older tramp has on several layers of clothing. He is wearing a light shirt under his jacket over his dark shirt. It is only exposed on his right side. This shirt shines brightly in the direct sun.

The Hudson WC testimony has always struck me as strange since he does not discuss the third person on the steps. He does state: "I'll tell you - this young fellow that was sitting there with me - standing there with me at the present time, he says, ďLay down Mister, somebody is shooting the President." He says, "Lay down, lay down." This does not make sense to me because the only person that would make that statement would be the EHH/Tramp to the Red Shirt Man.

According to the films and photos of the man thought to be Hudson soon becomes the Red Shirt Man. EHH stopped Hudson from following behind Jack Lawrence who tried to run up the stairs after the shots were fired.

Don

#15 Bill Miller

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Posted 20 September 2007 - 10:49 AM

According to the films and photos of the man thought to be Hudson soon becomes the Red Shirt Man. EHH stopped Hudson from following behind Jack Lawrence who tried to run up the stairs after the shots were fired.


Don, I thought you said that Hudson wasn't even there on the steps ... now you are implying that the red shirted man stopped Hudson from following the guy who ran off. Did I get that right?

Bill





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