Did the Far Right kill JFK? Options

[John Simkin]

I thought it might be worth starting a thread on the possibilities of the far right being involved in the assassination of JFK? Names of members of the far right who hated JFK include General Edward Walker, Clint Murchison (Delhi Oil), Haroldson L. Hunt (Placid Oil), George Brown (Brown & Root), Gus Wortham (American General Insurance Company), James Abercrombie (Cameron Iron Works), Hugh R. Cullen (Quintana Petroleum), James Elkins (American General Insurance and Pure Oil Pipe Line), Morgan J. Davis (Humble Oil), Robert Anderson (Texas Mid-Continent Oil and Gas Association), Robert Kerr (Kerr-McGee Oil Industries), Glenn McCarthy (McCarthy Oil and Gas Company), Earl E. T. Smith (U.S. Sugar Corporation), Fred Korth (Continental National Bank), Sid Richardson (Texas oil millionaire), Eugene B. Germany (Mustang Oil Company), William Pawley (various business interests in Cuba), Gordon McLendon (KLIF), Fred Black (Serve-U Corporation) and Bobby Baker (Serve-U Corporation).

[John Simkin]

Then you have founders of Far Right organizations such as John K. Singlaub, General Douglas MacArthur, General Nathan Twining, Admiral Elmo Zumwalt, Joseph Coors, Bert Hurlbut (First Texas Royalty and Exploration), John Howell (Howell Instruments), Bunker Hunt and Herbert Hunt, Tarlton "Topsy" King, and Scott Parrott (Parrott Oil).

Then you have right-wing members officials and agents of the CIA such as Ray S. Cline, Richard Helms, David Morales, Rip Robertson, E. Howard Hunt, Mitchell WerBell, Paul Helliwell, Robert Emmett Johnson and Lucien Conein.

[Peter Lemkin]

Alas, the center, left, nor the far-left, or the standard 'right' were involved at all [despite false-feints to appear the contrary]......so that leaves only the FAR-right.
JFK was perceived by them as:
-a leftist;
-a 'peacenik' - when they are warriors first, and negotiators or proponents of peaceful change almost never;
-a populist and not a strict follower of the hidden power/money agendas; 
not always going to playball with their large corporate interests over the Peopl
; -willing to entertain the Russians as huamns, not as depersonalized enemies; 
-soft on Communism for his negotiations on missiles and actions around Bay of Pigs; 
-not under their control - a loose cannon.
-dangerous in his persuit of de-sgregation and other issues anathema to the Far-Right.
-moving in on their Mafia buddies and Corporate Mafia types.
-experimented with mind-expanding drugs that lead most to be less inclined to authoritarianism.
-too rich to bribe and not corruptable by their usual means
-inclined to seeing the need for international cooperation, rather than America uber alles.
-taking seriously his mandate from the People, rather than being only a front for the Oligarchy.

So, yes. Not the entire Far Right was involved, butin my view, everyone who was would fit into the rubric of the Far-Right. [who have, since, furthered their control on all the levers of power in the USA and behind the curtains of usually visible government]

This post has been edited by Peter Lemkin: Nov 3 2007, 02:18 PM

[Tim Gratz]

Even John's posts are becoming laughable.

Bobby Baker was a member of the FAR RIGHT? He was a long-time staff member of the Senate democratioc Caucus and a procurer of women for JFK.

John, I would like to see documentation that the men you cited HATED JFK. One can be in strong disagreement with a man's politics and yet like the man personally. BG was a friend of JFK. Tip O'Neill was a friend (or at least liked) Ronald Reagan.

What proof do you have that Fred Black was a member of the FAR RIGHT? He was a neighbor and friend of LBJ.

And what evidence do you have that ANY of these men participated in the conspiracy to kill Kennedy?

There is none.

Admit it.

[Tim Gratz]

According to Gerry Hemming, Robert Emmett Jophnson indeed participated in the assassination of both JFK and Msartin Luther King, Jr.

But there is no evidence whatsoever of an association between Johnson and the CIA.

[Mark Knight]

According to Gerry Hemming, Robert Emmett Jophnson indeed participated in the assassination of both JFK and Martin Luther King, Jr.

But there is no evidence whatsoever of an association between Johnson and the CIA.

I'm beginning to believe that if ol' Lucifer himself were to be called a member of the far right,
Mr. Gratz would find some grounds upon which to mount a defense of him. Quite the Pavlovian response, there, Tim...John says "right" or "far right," and Tim LEAPS to defend whomever it is that John referenced.

You're predictable, if nothing else, Tim. [Is it time to ring the bell again, John?]

[Tim Gratz]

So Mark YOU believe that Bobby Baker and Fred Black were members of the far right? LOL!!

I am sure if Baker had ever been known as sympathetic to the "Far Right" he ould have been drummed out as Secretary of the Senate Democrats in a New York minute. I suppose John has information none of those Democrat senators did about Baker's secret alliances with the JBS!

The "right" and "the Far Right" had no more use for LBJ than they did for JFK. It was the right wing which was calling LBJ a crook in 1964 while your left wing friends voted for him.

What is predicatable, Mark, is that I QUESTION the conventional wisdom shared by most members of this forum and request evidence for at least the more ridiculous posts. what enrages people is that they know there is no such evidence. Their views are based only on "faith" in their pet theories.

[Tim Gratz]

So Mark YOU believe that Bobby Baker and Fred Black were members of the far right? LOL!!

I am sure if Baker had ever been known as sympathetic to the "Far Right" he ould have been drummed out as Secretary of the Senate Democrats in a New York minute. I suppose John has information none of those Democrat senators did about Baker's secret alliances with the JBS!

The "right" and "the Far Right" had no more use for LBJ than they did for JFK. It was the right wing which was calling LBJ a crook in 1964 while your left wing friends voted for him.

What is predicatable, Mark, is that I QUESTION the conventional wisdom shared by most members of this forum and request evidence for at least the more ridiculous posts. what enrages people is that they know there is no such evidence. Their views are based only on "faith" in their pet theories.

AND MARK YOU DID NOT EVEN CATCH THE THRUST OF MY THREAD.

I WAS NOT "DEFENDING" THESE PEOPLE FROM A CLAIM THEY WERE CONNECTED TO THE ASSASSINATION. (BIT MOST LIKELY NONE WERE.)

MY POINT WAS THAT IT IS CLEAR SEVERAL OF THE PEOPLE JOHN NAMED WERE NOT ASSOCIATED WITH THE "FAR RIGHT"--SO I THEREFORE ALSO QUESTION HIS EVIDENTARY BASIS FOR INCLUDING MANY OF THE OTHER NAMES.

DO YOU GET IT NOW?

[Tim Gratz]

Like Bobby Baker, Fred Korth must have kept his ties to the JBS and the Far Right a closely guarded secret.

JFK of course appointed him Secretary of the Navy. I think he succeeded Connally.

This post has been edited by Tim Gratz: Nov 4 2007, 09:28 AM

[Tim Gratz]

Well, lest there be any confusion, let me admit this much:


I am certain that John S is correct that Jesse H. Jones was indeed a part of the plot.

[Accogli Claudio]

This remembers me the question "Did the Mafia hit Jfk?".
Mafia, or the people indicated by Simkin, have the money to do the job, maybe the men and the motive (=reason?).
But they don't have the power to plan such a finest coup, if it was, and to cover it for more than 40 years. if something was covered.


And Tim Gratz, yes, this time it seems your problem is the word "right", not the Jfk case. It is a pity.

[Tim Gratz]

I'm beginning to believe that if ol' Lucifer himself were to be called a member of the far right,
Mr. Gratz would find some grounds upon which to mount a defense of him.

Again, Mark, you did not even read my post right. I did not defend these individuals: I only questioned John's characterization of their political associations.

Had John included Lucifer in his list, I would have pointed out that is NOT where the devil sits on the political spectrum!

[Mark Knight]

Tim, I just notice that you're all too eager to jump on the bandwagon of "the left did it," with no more evidence than there is that "the right did it."

I think there was enough corruption on BOTH sides to go around.

Bobby Baker, according to Don Reynolds' statement, was the "bagman" for the cash [to LBJ] from General Dynamics. Fred Korth was, as I understand, instrumental in this endeavor, according to most accounts. So keeping the cash flowing and getting "those goddamned Kennedys" off the case/out of the way, IMHO, potentially contributed to the assassination [I have no "smoking-gun" proof, Tim, so I used the phrase "potentially contributed in that context].

I have no connections with the left, Tim...I'm perfectly happy as a centrist. I think "the right" MIGHT have pulled off the crime of the [20th] century, but I'm also willing to listen to evidence that "the left" hatched the plot and pulled it off. Where you and I differ is that I don't think ANYONE's name should be pulled off the table SIMPLY because of their political leanings...whereas you apparently believe that, if they're from the right, they should AUTOMATICALLY be above suspicion and NOT be investigated.

I firmly believe that BOTH the left and the right have dirty hands in the JFK assassination; it's just a matter of determining which side has the nitrates on them from pulling the trigger.

But I get amused watching John yank your chain, and you come out barking and foaming at the mouth....GREAT entertainment, sort of like those Warner Brothers cartoons with Foghorn Leghorn baiting that dog. We all KNOW what's gonna happen, but we still watch...because it's funny.

[Tim Gratz]

To Acoogli:

It is a common fallacy that the cover up was orchestrated by those who planned the assassination.

Joan Mellen points out that RFK sent associates down to scuttle the Garrison investigation.
By your reasoning, RFK must have participated in the plot to kill his own brother!

I use that as an illustration only to prove that one cannot infer from the "cover up" who the plotters were.

Arlen Spector obviously did a lot to further the cover up. I certainly do not believe he had anything to do with the plot itself--but I can assure you that Spector is not and never has been associated with the far right.

Early on (a day or two after Ruby killed Oswald) there was a report from london linking Ruby to a well-known Mafia big-wig: Santo Trafficante, Jr. That was quickly hushed up and not investigated. And apparently the FBI also had reports that in the month before the assassination Ruby had met with Johhny Rosselli.

The links between RUby and two of the Mafia chieftans directly involved in the CIA-sponsored plots to kill Castro were sufficient in themselves to GUARANTEE a cover-up. Never mind that the plots were at least initiated while DDE was President; the first actual attempts occured while JFK was president. Had those plots become public knowledge during the time of the WC the damage not only to the US but to the reputation of the slain president would have been incalcuable.

[Tim Gratz]

Mark, once more, maybe you will get it THIS time:

1) I AGREE with John S that Jesse H Jones was no doubt a member of the conspiracy that killed JFK.

My point here was NOT to deny the possibility that any of the others he named were part of the conspiracy (but in all likelihood none but Jessie H Jones were a part of it). My point is that in MOST cases John S has no basis for characterizing them as "right-wingers".

As you know, I am convinced the evidence quite clearly demonstrates Mob involvement in the assassination. But you cannot characterize the Mob members as "right-wingers". I understand Marcello was a Nixon supporter while Johnny Rosselli actually helped the JFK vote fraud in chicago.

I have NEVER put forth the position that the far left or any of its members plotted the assassination of JFK.