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The Most Damning Evidence Against Oswald


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#1 Tim Gratz

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 11:09 AM

In his excellent book "Breach of Promise" Prof McKnight identifies one exhibit to the WC as the most damning evidence against Oswald as Kennedy's assassin. I can see why he says that.

For people who have not read the book, what do you think would be the most damning evidence against Oswald? It's not the backyard photos. Merely because Oswald had his photo taken holding the M-C (assuming arguendo the photos are legitimate) does not mean he used it to shoot at anyone.

#2 John Dolva

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 02:18 PM

"...most damning evidence against Oswald?

His handwritten draft of the book or pamphlet that he intended to sell and distribute and his making himself and his thoughts available tp a group of connected New Orleans allumni who set in motion a process whereby he was chewed up and spat out in order for that group to acvhieve its 100+ years committment to becoming a great Empire ruled by them according to their morals and ethics. His ancesrty. His demonstrable tableu like comprehension of communism.

#3 Stephen Roy

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 03:52 PM

For people who have not read the book, what do you think would be the most damning evidence against Oswald?


While not unassailable, I think the evidence that a rifle owned by Oswald was used in the assassination is formidible.

I realize that every aspect of that subgroup of rifle evidence has been challenged, and while it falls short of certainty, it is still possible that a rifle owned by Oswald was used in the assassination.

Assuming arguendo that this is a true and valid evidenciary claim, there are not many options. Either Oswald used it himself, or somebody went to an awful lot of trouble before the fact to insure that a rifle incriminating Oswald was used in the assassination.

Whether or not it was the only weapon, or whether or not he fired it are two separate issues. I am not presenting this as an absolute fact: I am responding to your question that, FOR ME, this is the most damning evidence.

#4 Michael McMahon

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 05:02 PM

For people who have not read the book, what do you think would be the most damning evidence against Oswald?


While not unassailable, I think the evidence that a rifle owned by Oswald was used in the assassination is formidible.

I realize that every aspect of that subgroup of rifle evidence has been challenged, and while it falls short of certainty, it is still possible that a rifle owned by Oswald was used in the assassination.

Assuming arguendo that this is a true and valid evidenciary claim, there are not many options. Either Oswald used it himself, or somebody went to an awful lot of trouble before the fact to insure that a rifle incriminating Oswald was used in the assassination.

Whether or not it was the only weapon, or whether or not he fired it are two separate issues. I am not presenting this as an absolute fact: I am responding to your question that, FOR ME, this is the most damning evidence.



I understand your overall point, but doesn't the study by researchers at Texas A & M strip away any real evidence tying the bullet fragments to the supposed-Oswald Mannlicher Carcano? The Neutron Activation Analysis, which the HSCA relied upon to "tie" the fragments to Oswald's ammunition was found to be in error. Since that study, the FBI has stopped using such a methadology in proving cases in court.

http://www.science.t...u/articles/550/

Is there actually any solid evidence, now that the NAA has been debunked, that proves the alleged Oswald rifle (SPECIFICALLY that rifle) was even used that day? Did the FBI even perform a cotton swab test on the barrel?

#5 Jack White

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 05:36 PM

There is ZERO evidence implicating either Oswald in the murder of JFK.

There is substantial evidence linking BOTH Oswalds to various intelligence
operations.

The link is that the people running the intelligence operations were
the same people who implemented the assassination operation, using
the Oswald boys in both.

Jack

#6 William O'Neil

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 05:40 PM

"...most damning evidence against Oswald?

His handwritten draft of the book or pamphlet that he intended to sell and distribute and his making himself and his thoughts available tp a group of connected New Orleans allumni who set in motion a process whereby he was chewed up and spat out in order for that group to acvhieve its 100+ years committment to becoming a great Empire ruled by them according to their morals and ethics. His ancesrty. His demonstrable tableu like comprehension of communism.



Indeed, John. Lee's most damning act , was helping to facilitate the agenda of the conspirators, right up till the very end.....

-Bill

#7 J. Raymond Carroll

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 05:56 PM

Is there actually any solid evidence, now that the NAA has been debunked, that proves the alleged Oswald rifle (SPECIFICALLY that rifle) was even used that day?


Quite right. Guinn's NAA was supposed to have proven that CE399 and the limo fragments were fired during the assassination. Now that Guinn/NAA has been discredited, the evidence is equally consistent with a planted M-C bullet in Parkland, and planted fragments found in the limo in Washington DC.

Did the FBI even perform a cotton swab test on the barrel?


Fritz was the one who first checked the rifle. His testimony (from memory) was that there is no way to tell if a rifle has recently been fired, a proposition that Sylvia Meagher, for one, found very dubious.

As far as I know, there is no expert testimony that anyone examined the rifle to determine if it had been fired since its last cleaning.

I would be interested in hearing more about the "cotton swab" test and how it works. I have never heard of one being done in connection with the TSBD Mannlicher.

#8 Tim Gratz

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 07:58 PM

According to the good professor, the most damning evidence is the note he allegedly wrote to Marina before the Walker shooting.

I guess the most damning in a larger sense would be if he indeed attempted a political murder. The note woule be the strongest evidence that he was going to try to shoot Walker--because it at least apparently came from Oswald's own hand.

Now McKnight discusses the problems with the note, e.g. how it was discovered and the fact that it had neither Lee's nor Marina's fingerprints on it. But handwriting experts concluded it was his writing.

If someone was indeed framing him for the attempted murder of Walker it required of course not only the forged note but persuading marina to lie about it.

If Oswald did indeed try to murder Walker, it shows he was willing to commit a political murder.

#9 J. Raymond Carroll

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 08:15 PM

If Oswald did indeed try to murder Walker, it shows he was willing to commit a political murder.


Tim: You seem to have forgotten what you learned in law school. Character evidence is logically irrelevant and therefore inadmissable to prove guilt on a particular occasion.

Even if Lee Oswald had been convicted of shooting at Walker, the fact of that conviction would be inadmissable as evidence that he fired at JFK.

Earl Warren arbitrarily decided to abandon the wisdom of centuries of Jurisprudence. That does not mean that we should allow you to get away with pulling the same stunt here.

Edited by J. Raymond Carroll, 05 December 2007 - 08:16 PM.


#10 William Kelly

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 08:47 PM

According to the good professor, the most damning evidence is the note he allegedly wrote to Marina before the Walker shooting.

I guess the most damning in a larger sense would be if he indeed attempted a political murder. The note woule be the strongest evidence that he was going to try to shoot Walker--because it at least apparently came from Oswald's own hand.

Now McKnight discusses the problems with the note, e.g. how it was discovered and the fact that it had neither Lee's nor Marina's fingerprints on it. But handwriting experts concluded it was his writing.

If someone was indeed framing him for the attempted murder of Walker it required of course not only the forged note but persuading marina to lie about it.

If Oswald did indeed try to murder Walker, it shows he was willing to commit a political murder.


If Oswald was indeed involved in the Walker Operation - which may or may not have been an assassination operation, considering Walker didn't die and your "fake assassination" hypothesis - then it is clear that others were involved - as more than one suspect were identified at the scene, another rifle was invovled, and it was planned like a covert op - complete with scoping out the scene, photographing it, timing it and getting away.

If it's true what Marina said, that he "burried" the rifle near the scene afterwards and went back for it, how come there's no evidence of it being burried on the rifle?

Also, according to Marina, Oswald escaped on a Getaway Bus, just as he is accused of trying after the assassination. And indeed, he did get away. It worked.

It appears that the Walker Operation also led to Oswald leaving Dallas for New Orleans, where he accellerates his operational incidents - Camp Street, FPCC/Trade Mart, Mexico City, etc.

It has also been established that the military in DC knew that Oswald was involved in the Walker shooting within a few weeks of the event.

So while the Walker Operation may be damning evidence against Oswald's involvement in such nefarious activities, it also leads to those who were responsible for the Dealey Plaza Operation, as the Walker incident was apparently a dry run.

BK

#11 Harry J.Dean

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 09:12 PM

At the very outset Gen. Walker stated that he had traced his attempted
assassins back to California.

#12 Tim Gratz

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 11:15 PM

Bill wrote:

As you may know, Bill, the simulated assassination theory that I endorse is very similar to the one suggested by Walt Brown in "Treachery in Dallas."
I believe I first read about it in "Libre" and then encountered it again in "The Fish in the Courthouse" story.

And yes it is possible that the Walker incident was Act I of that black op. I submit the reaon it did not accomplish what its authors wanted was because it was never their intent to injure JFK and when he was killed, everything changed.

When this was discussed at one point in the past, someone suggested that the whole idea was that LHO was to shoot at JFK and miss but he was such a bad shot he hit him by mistake. Kind of akin to the theory in "Mortal Error" but suggested only in jest.

Now it is possible the organizers always intended to kill JFK but never told LHo to trick him into cooperating. Or, that dark elements (one can posit a number of possible affiliations) discovered the scheme and co-opted it. You can imagine the public uproar that would have ensued had it been discovered that Dallas was an Operations Northwoods type operation that went terribly astray. Clearly, heads would have rolled.

#13 Tim Gratz

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 11:17 PM

Bill wrote:

It has also been established that the military in DC knew that Oswald was involved in the Walker shooting within a few weeks of the event.

Bill, I would be interested in support for the above.

#14 Kathleen Collins

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 12:33 AM

In his excellent book "Breach of Promise" Prof McKnight identifies one exhibit to the WC as the most damning evidence against Oswald as Kennedy's assassin. I can see why he says that.

For people who have not read the book, what do you think would be the most damning evidence against Oswald? It's not the backyard photos. Merely because Oswald had his photo taken holding the M-C (assuming arguendo the photos are legitimate) does not mean he used it to shoot at anyone.


The most "damning" evidence that Harvey Oswald shot President Kennedy was his stupidity. Didn't he think it odd that Kennedy was going to pass by the TSBD? And his "friends," Ruth Paine and husband, and DeMohrenshildt were CIA and he wasn't suspicious of them?

Harvey was so set up it was comical. The appearances in Mexico at the Cuban and Russian embassies. The pictures, supposedly of Oswald in the backyard, holding an edition of The Daily Worker and a rifle -- to prove he was a communist and was going to kill somebody with the rifle. Then his wife said she took those pictures of him at his insistence -- his own wife is incriminating him. Plus, the story always went that he left his wedding ring on the dresser for Marina to find. Only there's a photo of a wedding ring on his left hand when he was taken into custody. Even his lookalike, Lee Oswald, was framing him by shooting out the 6th floor window. How dumb is this guy? I think Harvey was a Russian citizen of Hungarian descent. The voice on the tape from Russia in 1960 is the same voice heard on 2 radio shows and the same voice of the man arrested as Lee Harvey Oswald here in America. I think his name is Alek Hidell and the real Harvey Oswald went over to Russia.

Of course, this doesn't damn him at all. There is nothing that damns Harvey Oswald as the killer of President Kennedy.

Kathy

#15 William Kelly

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 12:55 AM

Bill wrote:

It has also been established that the military in DC knew that Oswald was involved in the Walker shooting within a few weeks of the event.

Bill, I would be interested in support for the above.


Tim, Read Adele Edisen's testimony before the ARRB and the records Doug Horne obtained about Dr./Col. Jose Rivera, USAR.

BK




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