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Roy Truly


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#1 Robin Unger

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 11:54 PM

Credit : Sean Murphy

The two frames below show Marion Baker and Roy Truly together near the rear of the TSBD first floor on 22/11/63


[attachment=16012:13337.jpg]

[attachment=16013:13338.jpg]

Edited by Robin Unger, 15 December 2008 - 02:49 AM.


#2 Robin Unger

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 11:58 PM

Roy Truly.

[attachment=16014:13481.jpg]


Marion Baker.

[attachment=16015:13482.jpg]

Edited by Robin Unger, 16 September 2008 - 12:12 AM.


#3 Robin Unger

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 12:05 AM

Thanks to Sean Murphy.

It's good to finally get a positive I.D on Truly showing exactly how he looked on the day of the assassination.


I must say that previously looking through the images, not knowing exactly how he looked on the day, i probably would have mistaken him for a police officer.

[attachment=16016:13339.jpg]


Can anyone identify the other men in the frames above. ?

Edited by Robin Unger, 16 September 2008 - 12:10 AM.


#4 Robin Unger

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 07:29 AM

QUOTE:

Mr. TRULY. Mr. O. V. Campbell, vice president--and I had started out for lunch. I don't know as we had any particular place in mind. We ate at several places around there.
It was around 12:10 or 12:15, I would say, to the nearest of my memory.
As we got to the outside of the building, we noticed that it wouldn't be long until the motorcade would come by, and we decided to wait and watch the President come by.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember where you were standing with Mr. Campbell?
Mr. TRULY. I would judge out in Elm Street, 10 to 15 or 20 feet from the front steps. We first stood on the steps, the bottom steps a few minutes, and then we walked out in the line of spectators on the side of Elm Street.




I seem to recall someone mentioning that Truly was standing on the curved island near the street light during the assassination.?


Could he be the man with the hat on standing in the middle next to the car. ?



[attachment=16017:10497.jpg]

[attachment=16018:10496.jpg]

Edited by Robin Unger, 16 September 2008 - 07:51 AM.


#5 Don Bailey

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 10:01 AM

Robin,

Thank you for providing the pictures of Roy Truly. From his pictures inside the TSBD he appears to be short and so does the man on the street. The only thing that is missing is his white handkerchief in his pocket. Considering the circumstances, he may have used it after his run up the stairs.

Don

#6 William Kelly

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Posted 14 December 2008 - 07:24 AM

Two Roy Trulys?

One a WWII Sniper?

http://www.maryferre...mp;relPageId=80


FBI 105-82555 Oswald HQ File, Section 55, p. 81

http://www.maryferre...mp;relPageId=81

Edited by William Kelly, 14 December 2008 - 07:27 AM.


#7 David Andrews

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Posted 14 December 2008 - 09:36 PM

QUOTE:

Mr. TRULY. Mr. O. V. Campbell, vice president--and I had started out for lunch. I don't know as we had any particular place in mind. We ate at several places around there.
It was around 12:10 or 12:15, I would say, to the nearest of my memory.
As we got to the outside of the building, we noticed that it wouldn't be long until the motorcade would come by, and we decided to wait and watch the President come by.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember where you were standing with Mr. Campbell?
Mr. TRULY. I would judge out in Elm Street, 10 to 15 or 20 feet from the front steps. We first stood on the steps, the bottom steps a few minutes, and then we walked out in the line of spectators on the side of Elm Street.




I seem to recall someone mentioning that Truly was standing on the curved island near the street light during the assassination.?


Could he be the man with the hat on standing in the middle next to the car. ?



[attachment=16017:10497.jpg]

[attachment=16018:10496.jpg]


What is going on with the tall man to Truly's left? I'm assuming that the pictures are reversed: that the second photo is the earliest, and the first photo is of the same tailfins disappearing as the photographer moves to the left, while the corner girls step into the street at right. But do these two tall men next to Truly have the same face? Is the "headgear" the tall man seems to be wearing when he's shown against the TSBD wall also in the photo where he's silhouetted against the doorway space? Is it a cowboy hat, or a sloppy crop of another head, with a jagged nimbus of untrimmed black background? And where's Billy Lovelady today?

#8 David Andrews

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Posted 14 December 2008 - 09:39 PM

The TSBD deserves its own book, devoted to a modern, comprehensive investigation. If the WC Report presented the kill zone as the Seat of the Mysteries, then the TSBD was presented as the Origin of Mysteries. Yet subsequent researchers have not paid it the attention it should, beyond plotting trajectory and the available sightlines from its windows.

Researchers have already alleged that TSBD ownership was associated with anti-communist interests, putting the TSBD in line with Oswald’s other period employment, at Jagger-Chiles-Stovall in Dallas (associated with the intel community) and Reily Coffee in New Orleans (ownership linked to anti-Castro activities).

Where is research that fully explores the following?

• Connections between TSBD ownership and Michael and Ruth Paine, or the Paines’ handlers and connections.
• The bringing of rifles into Roy Truly’s office prior to the assassination. Even in Texas culture, this is suspicious as a possible screen for the introduction of other rifles, and personnel carrying rifles, into the TSBD.
• New interviews with surviving employees regarding the presence of unknown subjects in the TSBD at any time during Oswald’s employ. Objective review of any period or later interviews that may divulge the same intelligence.
• Cross-section elevation drawings of the TSBD and plan drawings of individual floors. Records of any alterations made to the building shortly before the assassination and in the following years.
• Biography of Roy Truly, the TSBD ownership, and any other personnel of interest, in the years after 1963.

This final destination of Oswald’s employment history should be examined not only because of the involvements of previous employers – who may have given operative Oswald cover jobs as part of cooperative relations with the government and its budgetary needs – but also because aspects of Oswald’s employment history resemble the position held by the suspect in the Chicago plot, Thomas Arthur Valee.

As author James W. Douglass found – and Nathaniel Heidenheimer posted – Valee obtained a job with a Chicago printing firm, IPP Litho-Plate (apparently in August 1963), in a building overlooking the Chicago motorcade route.

http://educationforu...h...12867&st=15

After being fired from Jagger-Chiles-Stovall in Dallas, Oswald applied for work at Padgett Printing Corporation on October 4, and was supposedly rejected after Robert Stovall at J-C-S described him as a leftist agitator who disturbed other employees (WC Vol. XI, pp. 478-479). Thus, supposedly through a housewife who visited Ruth Paine for morning coffee, Oswald is directed to the TSBD.

Both printing and photographic companies may be described as of interest to a government then fighting propaganda wars within and without its borders. While Valee’s employment may not make him an intel operative – and certainly not one of the skill and experience as Oswald – others possibly in cover jobs at IPP might have been ready on-site handlers for Vallee.

Were there on-site handlers, even to a minimal definition of “handling,” for Oswald at the TSBD? Were there any for Vallee at IPP? Is Oswald the only intel op then, or ever, working at TSBD?

Did the location of Padgett Printing, at 1313 North Industrial, offer any advantage to an earlier scheme for assassination in Dallas? Or was Oswald sent to apply there as a temporizing measure, until a more suitable workplace could be found for his role, witting or not, in the Dallas mission?

We have been offered an Origin of Mysteries, and in dismissing it have not deconstructed it. Attention, indeed, has followed that of the crowd in DP toward the Grassy Knoll, and lately – as if in reaction to previous investigations – toward the South Knoll. It is well past time to achieve as much documentation and understanding of the role of the TSBD as we can. This should have been accomplished long before the site was morphed into a museum, and legally finessed around its prior status as private property.

#9 Jack White

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Posted 14 December 2008 - 09:49 PM

QUOTE:

Mr. TRULY. Mr. O. V. Campbell, vice president--and I had started out for lunch. I don't know as we had any particular place in mind. We ate at several places around there.
It was around 12:10 or 12:15, I would say, to the nearest of my memory.
As we got to the outside of the building, we noticed that it wouldn't be long until the motorcade would come by, and we decided to wait and watch the President come by.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember where you were standing with Mr. Campbell?
Mr. TRULY. I would judge out in Elm Street, 10 to 15 or 20 feet from the front steps. We first stood on the steps, the bottom steps a few minutes, and then we walked out in the line of spectators on the side of Elm Street.




I seem to recall someone mentioning that Truly was standing on the curved island near the street light during the assassination.?


Could he be the man with the hat on standing in the middle next to the car. ?



[attachment=16017:10497.jpg]

[attachment=16018:10496.jpg]


Shots have already been fired. It is odd that there is no reaction by the spectators.

Jack

#10 Don Roberdeau

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Posted 14 December 2008 - 09:53 PM

....Good Day.... Scaled diagram detailing "The Truly Trap" of the "Oswald-Baker-then-Truly 'First encounter'"....

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Best Regards in Research,

Don


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#11 Jack White

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Posted 14 December 2008 - 09:59 PM

The TSBD deserves its own book, devoted to a modern, comprehensive investigation. If the WC Report presented the kill zone as the Seat of the Mysteries, then the TSBD was presented as the Origin of Mysteries. Yet subsequent researchers have not paid it the attention it should, beyond plotting trajectory and the available sightlines from its windows.

Researchers have already alleged that TSBD ownership was associated with anti-communist interests, putting the TSBD in line with Oswald’s other period employment, at Jagger-Chiles-Stovall in Dallas (associated with the intel community) and Reily Coffee in New Orleans (ownership linked to anti-Castro activities).

Where is research that fully explores the following?

• Connections between TSBD ownership and Michael and Ruth Paine, or the Paines’ handlers and connections.
• The bringing of rifles into Roy Truly’s office prior to the assassination. Even in Texas culture, this is suspicious as a possible screen for the introduction of other rifles, and personnel carrying rifles, into the TSBD.
• New interviews with surviving employees regarding the presence of unknown subjects in the TSBD at any time during Oswald’s employ. Objective review of any period or later interviews that may divulge the same intelligence.
• Cross-section elevation drawings of the TSBD and plan drawings of individual floors. Records of any alterations made to the building shortly before the assassination and in the following years.
• Biography of Roy Truly, the TSBD ownership, and any other personnel of interest, in the years after 1963.

This final destination of Oswald’s employment history should be examined not only because of the involvements of previous employers – who may have given operative Oswald cover jobs as part of cooperative relations with the government and its budgetary needs – but also because aspects of Oswald’s employment history resemble the position held by the suspect in the Chicago plot, Thomas Arthur Valee.

As author James W. Douglass found – and Nathaniel Heidenheimer posted – Valee obtained a job with a Chicago printing firm, IPP Litho-Plate (apparently in August 1963), in a building overlooking the Chicago motorcade route.

http://educationforu...h...12867&st=15

After being fired from Jagger-Chiles-Stovall in Dallas, Oswald applied for work at Padgett Printing Corporation on October 4, and was supposedly rejected after Robert Stovall at J-C-S described him as a leftist agitator who disturbed other employees (WC Vol. XI, pp. 478-479). Thus, supposedly through a housewife who visited Ruth Paine for morning coffee, Oswald is directed to the TSBD.

Both printing and photographic companies may be described as of interest to a government then fighting propaganda wars within and without its borders. While Valee’s employment may not make him an intel operative – and certainly not one of the skill and experience as Oswald – others possibly in cover jobs at IPP might have been ready on-site handlers for Vallee.

Were there on-site handlers, even to a minimal definition of “handling,” for Oswald at the TSBD? Were there any for Vallee at IPP? Is Oswald the only intel op then, or ever, working at TSBD?

Did the location of Padgett Printing, at 1313 North Industrial, offer any advantage to an earlier scheme for assassination in Dallas? Or was Oswald sent to apply there as a temporizing measure, until a more suitable workplace could be found for his role, witting or not, in the Dallas mission?

We have been offered an Origin of Mysteries, and in dismissing it have not deconstructed it. Attention, indeed, has followed that of the crowd in DP toward the Grassy Knoll, and lately – as if in reaction to previous investigations – toward the South Knoll. It is well past time to achieve as much documentation and understanding of the role of the TSBD as we can. This should have been accomplished long before the site was morphed into a museum, and legally finessed around its prior status as private property.


I recall an extensive article in the THIRD/FOURTH DECADE regarding the TSBD.
My newsletter collection is now being processed at UTA, or I would look it up.
The Penn Jones Collection at Baylor has complete collection.

Good idea for a book!

The building was built about 1912 by the SOUTHERN ROCK ISLAND PLOW COMPANY.

Jack

#12 William Kelly

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 10:06 AM

Thanks for the layout of the 2nd floor Don,


I recall an extensive article in the THIRD/FOURTH DECADE regarding the TSBD.

Jack, Is this it?

http
://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=24


Also The Glaze Letters and Shelley & Company:

http://www.maryferre...amp;relPageId=6

Edited by William Kelly, 15 December 2008 - 10:22 AM.


#13 Antti Hynonen

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Posted 15 December 2008 - 10:55 AM

William Kelly Posted Yesterday, 09:24 AM
Two Roy Trulys?

One a WWII Sniper?

http://www.maryferre...mp;relPageId=80


FBI 105-82555 Oswald HQ File, Section 55, p. 81

http://www.maryferre...mp;relPageId=81



Yes, 2 different fellows. In 1963 Roy S. Truly (of TSBD fame) was 56 years old, maybe 150-160 pounds and about 5'7" - 5'8". In the first link above (BK) it is thought that the other Roy Truly was about 45 years old, 6'2" and 200 lbs and worked as a chauffeur and handyman for a Dr. in the 1950's.


TSBD Roy Truly had worked at the TSBD since 1934.
See below:

http://jfkassassinat...mony/truly1.htm

Testimony Of Roy Sansom Truly
Mr. BELIN. Next we will call Mr. Truly.
Mr. McCLOY. Will you raise your right hand, and stand.
Do you solemnly swear the testimony you will give in this case will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. TRULY. I do.
Mr. McCLOY. I would like to state, Mr. Truly, what the purpose of this hearing is.
This is to hear the testimony of several witnesses, or people close to the event of the assassination of the President, to get as much knowledge as we can of' the facts concerning that event, which largely centers around the School Book Depository and the people in it, on the afternoon of November 22d.
Will you state for the record your full name?
Mr. TRULY. Roy Sansom Truly.
Mr. BELIN. Mr. Truly, where do you live?
Mr. TRULY. I live at 4932 Jade Drive, Dallas, Tex.
Mr. BELIN. Are you originally from Dallas?
Mr. TRULY. No. I have been in Dallas since 1925.
Mr. BELIN. Where were you born, sir?
Mr. TRULY. Hubbard, Tex.
Mr. BELIN. And what was your birth date?
Mr. TRULY. August 29, 1907.

Mr. BELIN. Mr. Truly, where did you go to school?
Mr. TRULY. I finished high school at Hubbard--
Mr. BELIN. In Texas?
Mr. TRULY. In Texas.
Mr. BELIN. And what did you do after you finished high school?
Mr. TRULY. Well, I came to Dallas in the fall of that year and I have been there ever since.
Mr. BELIN. For whom did you become employed when you came to Dallas?
Mr. TRULY. I believe my father ran a cafe here in Dallas, and I worked with him a short while. And then in the fall of 1925, I went to work for Higginbotham, Bailey, Logan Co.
Mr. BELIN. What business is that?
Mr. TRULY. That is wholesale drygoods.
Mr. BELIN. And how long did you work with them?
Mr. TRULY. I believe a little less than a year.
Mr. BELIN. And then where did you
Mr. TRULY. I went to work for National Casket Co.
Mr. BELIN. And about how long did you work for them?
Mr. TRULY. I couldn't be certain. Several years--maybe 3 or 4 or 5 years.
Mr. BELIN. And in what capacity did you work for them?
Mr. TRULY. Well, I worked in the cloth room, learning the trade of putting in the drapery and things in the caskets.
Mr. BELIN. And from there, where did you go?
Mr. TRULY. I worked a short time at the Dallas Coffin Co., several months. It wasn't very long. And I left there and during the depression I worked for several things. I drove a laundry truck off and on for a couple of years.

(At this point, Representative Ford withdrew from the hearing room.)

Mr. TRULY. I believe I even worked for the WPA back there in those days.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
And after the depression, where did you start working then?
Mr. TRULY. I went to work for the Texas School Book Depository in July 1934.
Mr. BELIN. And have you been employed by the Texas School Book Depository since that date, since July 1934?
Mr. TRULY. That is right.

Edited by Antti Hynonen, 15 December 2008 - 10:58 AM.


#14 David Andrews

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Posted 16 December 2008 - 01:38 AM

Thanks for the layout of the 2nd floor Don,


I recall an extensive article in the THIRD/FOURTH DECADE regarding the TSBD.

Jack, Is this it?

http
://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...p;relPageId=24


Also The Glaze Letters and Shelley & Company:

http://www.maryferre...amp;relPageId=6


Thank you, William, for the links to the William Weston articles in The Fourth Decade - I just caught up with them tonight.

If people are interested in the TSBD, possibly as a WTC-7 of Dealey, this pair of articles is well worth seeing for info on manager Bill Shelley, and for Hoover's lamb-like 1964 letter to Rankin claiming that Roy Truly, "who has been very cooperative with this Bureau in the past," refused to allow the FBI to fingerprint employees above the box handler level.

Of course, as Weston points out, book depositories would have strong ties to publishers, some of which moonlighted in anti-communist propaganda, as did printers, photo labs and lithographers - which Oswald and Valee worked for.

Edited by David Andrews, 16 December 2008 - 01:42 AM.


#15 David Andrews

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Posted 21 December 2008 - 05:02 PM

Sorry to bump - But one more Fourth Decade article on the TSBD by William Weston, which posits that the TSBD company did not occupy the 411 Elm Street warehouse until the summer of 1963:

http://www.maryferre...mp;relPageId=24




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