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Was Lansdale in Dealey Plaza?


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#1 Greg Burnham

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 11:49 AM

I remember being alerted by a member of this forum that my friend, Gerry Hemming, had denied that Krulak identified Ed Lansdale from a picture taken in Dallas. I sent him proof. He called me the next day and apologized--well, admitted his error--Gerry never apologized to anyone to my knowledge. Thanks to Len Osanic for uploading this clip:



#2 Peter McGuire

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 12:25 PM

It seems that Landsdale was involved in a couple "change of government" operations just that Fall. I have had every reason to believe Landsdale was involved in the Kennedy murder since reading Newman's "JFK and Vietnam" in 1994. Landsdale, like Allen Dulles, do not seem like the kind of people that you piss off and live to talk about it; and JFK did just that.

From JFK: The Unspeakable, Saigon and Chicago, page 186:

On Septmember 13, 1963, Lodge sent a letter to Secretary of State Dean Rusk asking him to send longtime CIA operative Edward Landsdale to Saigon "at once to take charge, under my supervision, of all U.S. relationships with a change of government here." Lodge wanted Landsdale's expertise in "changing governments" so as to facilitate, "under my supervision," the stalled coup. For Landsdale to be effective, Lodge wrote, he "must have a staff and I therefore ask that he be put in charge of the CAS ["Controlled American Source," meaning the CIA] station in the Embassy, relieving the present incumbent, Mr. John Richardson."

Although CIA director McCone denied Lodge's request for Landsdale, Richardson, whom Lodge thought too close to Diem, was recalled to Washington, just as Lodge wished. The Ambassador then became in effect his CIA station chief in Saigon. He could now supervise directly Lucien Conein, the CIA's intermediary to the South Vietnamese generals plotting against Diem.

Edited by Peter McGuire, 31 July 2010 - 12:29 PM.


#3 Greg Burnham

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 12:37 PM

Excellent observations, IMHO, Peter! Lansdale was definitely an operator in coup's around the globe. He specialized in every aspect of successful government change (with the exception of personally pulling the trigger, rigging the explosive, administering the poison, etc.), including the set up and, most importantly, the cover up.

It seems that Landsdale was involved in a couple "change of government" operations just that Fall. I have had every reason to believe Landsdale was involved in the Kennedy murder since reading Newman's "JFK and Vietnam" in 1994. Landsdale, like Allen Dulles, do not seem like the kind of people that you piss off and live to talk about it; and JFK did just that.

From JFK: The Unspeakable, Saigon and Chicago, page 186:

On Septmember 13, 1963, Lodge sent a letter to Secretary of State Dean Rusk asking him to send longtime CIA operative Edward Landsdale to Saigon "at once to take charge, under my supervision, of all U.S. relationships with a change of government here." Lodge wanted Landsdale's expertise in "changing governments" so as to facilitate, "under my supervision," the stalled coup. For Landsdale to be effective, Lodge wrote, he "must have a staff and I therefore ask that he be put in charge of the CAS ["Controlled American Source," meaning the CIA] station in the Embassy, relieving the present incumbent, Mr. John Richardson."

Although CIA director McCone denied Lodge's request for Landsdale, Richardson, whom Lodge thought too close to Diem, was recalled to Washington, just as Lodge wished. The Ambassador then became in effect his CIA station chief in Saigon. He could now supervise directly Lucien Conein, the CIA's intermediary to the South Vietnamese generals plotting against Diem.



#4 J. Raymond Carroll

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 03:49 PM

Lansdale was definitely an operator in coup's around the globe.


Sterling Seagrave has some interesting things to say about Lansdale on this thread:
http://educationforu...pic=13678&st=0.

(Hi there Sterling, we have not heard from you in a while -- hope all is well)

I submit that, as a general rule, the only reliable way to identify someone is by their FACIAL FEATURES (In extreme cases you might need dental records). Accordingly, I am not at all persuaded by Prouty's ID of a man who can be seen only from behind.

But the funny thing is that I and others DO SEE A LANSDALE LOOKALIKE in one tramp photo, and he is not the guy that Prouty claims to identify.

Please take at a look at the tramp photo linked below, and note the man seen in profile just to the left of "Frenchy" (his head merges into Frenchy's). To me this man DOES BEAR a remarkable resemblance to Lansdale, down to the COLOR AND LENGTH OF HIS HAIR (Grey/White, crew-cut)). In my mind he is definitely not the man with JET-BLACK hair that Prouty refers to. Note that the tall (middle) tramp seems to be making eye contact with the Lansdale lookalike in this photo, and that eye-contact has a conspiratorial appearance, in the eyes of this innocent country boy.

This profile view looks identical to Lansdale as seen in a 1965 photo in Vietnam, Photo No. 18 in Cecil B. Currey's Lansdale biography. By 1965, at least, photos show that Lansdale could no longer be described as dark-haired.

I regret I am unable to post the 1965 photo from Currey's book,(Edward Lansdale, the Unquiet American
Cecil B. Currey) nor find it in Google images. If you, dear reader, can post that photo you will win a special prize (details TBA).

Here is the tramp photo which shows the man I contend is the Lansdale lookalike in Dealey Plaza.
http://ken_ashford.t...3/21/tramps.png

I would also not be surprised if the well-dressed, well-groomed man with the conventioneers ID who is now walking behind the police is the SAME MAN seen earlier from behind, the man Prouty claims is Lansdale.

#5 J. Raymond Carroll

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 05:37 PM

I regret I am unable to post the 1965 photo from Currey's book,(Edward Lansdale, the Unquiet American
Cecil B. Currey) nor find it in Google images. If you, dear reader, can post that photo you will win a special prize (details TBA).


Here are the early details of the prize, (sponsored by the Wintergreen Foundation of Pianosa)

If the winner is a male he gets a night on the town (Paris, of course) with Monica Bellucci http://www.google.co...iw=1024&bih=545

The evening will include dinner and dancing at the MOST expensive restaurant in Paris (figure two grand U. S., including a half-bottle of champagne), and of course a Romantic private bedroom suite will be available at Hotel Meurice http://www.forbes.co...307feat_11.html
throughout the evening. Ms. Bellucci cannot stay out later than 6 am, as she must be home to relieve the babysitter.

If the winner is a female, the prize is even more mouth-watering!

#6 Ron Ecker

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 06:05 PM

Lansdale pics:


http://www.ronaldeck...ansdalepics.jpg


It's my belief that the man walking past the tramps looks more like Maxwell Taylor than Lansdale. Both of them would have reason to be there, and I still wonder why Prouty and Krulak, who knew both men, would not see the resemblance to Taylor and sound so convinced it was Lansdale. I've even wondered if it was not a deliberate deflection on their part for the record.

The official story, of course, is that Taylor was at the Pentagon that day with the other joint chiefs meeting with West German officials. We know for a fact, however, that Curtis LeMay wasn't there. The official story also says that Taylor accompanied McNamara and RFK to Andrews for the arrival of Air Force One from Dallas. There is no photographic record of Taylor's presence at Andrews. But even if he was there, he would have had time (I'm sure he could catch a ride on a fast military jet) to get there from Dallas.

One person who was at the Pentagon that day, and would have known if Taylor was there, was Krulak. I wrote Krulak a couple of years ago to ask him about his recollections of that day at the Pentagon (not directly asking him if Taylor was around). I got a reply from Krulak's son saying that his father was not able to provide answers to such questions because of his age and condition. Krulak is now gone, and whatever he might could have told us about 11/22/63 at the Pentagon went with him.

Edited by Ron Ecker, 31 July 2010 - 06:08 PM.


#7 Robert Morrow

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 06:20 PM

THE PHOTO OF GEN. EDWARD LANSDALE WAS PERHAPS THE MOST IMPORTANT PHOTO TAKEN IN DALLAS ON 11/22/63. Also, get a copy of the book "Edward Lansdale's Cold War" by Jonathan Nashel. There are a lot of good photos in that book including one with Edward Lansdale and OLIVER NORTH from the 1980's. Oliver North modeled himself after Edward Lansdale and called himself "Lansdalian!!"

So Lodge wanted to use the CIA's coup and assassinations expert to overthrow Diem in South Vietnam. And Oliver North in the 1980's models himself on Lansdale and knows him personally. That tells me a LOT.

Lansdale is identified in that three tramps photo by BOTH Fletcher Prouty AND Victor Krulak!

Major General Edward Lansdale was probably in operational charge of the assassination in Dallas. JFK did not make him ambassador to Vietnam in 1961, which Lansdale coveted. JFK did make Lansdale the Head of Operation Mongoose which was filled to the brim with CIA and anti-Castro Cubans who hated JFK as much as they hated Fidel Castro. Here is a photo of Lansdale taken on the sidewalk in front of and just a few feet west of the Texas School Book Depository: ! http://www.apfn.net/dcia/tramps1.jpg Fletcher Prouty gives his insights: http://www.prouty.org/letter.html Here is a Lansdale bio: http://www.spartacus...OLDlansdale.htm Also, Wikipedia on Lansdale: : http://en.wikipedia....Edward_Lansdale Forget the 3 tramps, the identification of Lansdale by Fletcher Prouty and General Krulak is the jewel in that photo! Edward Lansdale had a rectangular head: http://www.google.co...l=&oq=&gs_rfai=
Here is a 3/14/85 letter by Gen. Victor H. Krulak also identifying Edward Lansdale at the TSBD on 11/22/63: http://www.ratical.c...K/USO/appD.html Edward Lansdale, the CIA’s assassinations expert, - his presence in Dallas indicts the CIA.

#8 J. Raymond Carroll

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 06:30 PM

Lansdale pics:


Thank you Ron.

The one on the bottom left, showing the right side of Lansdale's face, is taken from the same angle as Photo No. 18 (1965) in Currey's book, but Lansdale looks a good deal older in the photo in Currey's book. And IMO he looks AN AWFUL LOT like what we can see of the crew-cut Gent who seems to be giving eye-signals to the tall tramp.

#9 David Andrews

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 07:11 PM

I keep a dish of salt handy when I read/hear Prouty, just in case. But I take him seriously on the Lansdale ID in Dealey Plaza.

Is Charlie Harrelson really smiling with relief as Lansdale passes him, though? Would Lansdale know such a lowlife?

If Lansdale and Harrelson didn't know each other, could there have been some sort of quasi-Masonic high sign flashed, as imagined in JFK?

Is there any military connection through which Harrelson might have worked under Lansdale?

Edited by David Andrews, 06 August 2010 - 01:33 AM.


#10 Robert Morrow

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    ALSO ===>

    I would bet my house, my car, and my bank account that the Clintons & Buddy Young sent 3 Arkansas state trooper goons to beat the living hell out of and nearly murder Gary Johnson (the lawyer for Larry Nichols & neighbor of Gennifer Flowers) on June 26, 1992. They did this because Gary Johnson had security camera videotapes of Bill Clinton often entering Gennifer's condo. The Clintons were denying the Bill/Gennifer affair at that time. The Clinton thugs then stole the tapes. Watch the "New Clinton Chronicles" and go to minute 48 for the Gary Johnson interview.

Posted 01 August 2010 - 12:10 AM

Both Fletcher Prouty AND Victor Krulak have identified Edward Lansdale as present at Texas School Book Depository Building on 11/22/63. I think that is very significant - almost damning - for the CIA's experts on coups and assassinations, the head of Operatio Mongoose, to be present on site at the JFK assassination. I think Edward Lansdale helped to murder John Kennedy.

Here is a 3/14/85 letter by Gen. Victor H. Krulak also identifying Edward Lansdale at the TSBD on 11/22/63: http://www.ratical.c...K/USO/appD.html

OLIVER NORTH met Lansdale, liked him and considered himself "Lansdalian." North had very close ties to George Herbert Walker Bush (which he lied about, of course) as the CIA was running gargantuan amounts of drugs in the 1980's. I bet you dollars to donuts GHW Bush had close ties to Edward Lansdale when he was running Operation Mongoose ... and before!

p. 126 of Edward Lansdale's Cold War" by Jonathan Nashel, a photo of Edward Lansdale and a bunch of 1980's rightwingers wanting to wage war in Latin America, Oliver North one of them. And Ollie describes himself as "Lansdalian." That is why understanding the 1980's and its key players - like Oliver North and GHW Bush, Felix Rodriguez - is key to understanding the JFK Assassination.

Edited by Robert Morrow, 01 August 2010 - 12:12 AM.


#11 J. Raymond Carroll

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 12:25 AM

Both Fletcher Prouty AND Victor Krulak have identified Edward Lansdale as present at Texas School Book Depository Building on 11/22/63. I think that is very significant


Since these so-called identifications are NOT based on facial recognition, they are virtually worthless as EVIDENCE.

Edited by J. Raymond Carroll, 01 August 2010 - 12:28 AM.


#12 Robert Morrow

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    ALSO ===>

    I would bet my house, my car, and my bank account that the Clintons & Buddy Young sent 3 Arkansas state trooper goons to beat the living hell out of and nearly murder Gary Johnson (the lawyer for Larry Nichols & neighbor of Gennifer Flowers) on June 26, 1992. They did this because Gary Johnson had security camera videotapes of Bill Clinton often entering Gennifer's condo. The Clintons were denying the Bill/Gennifer affair at that time. The Clinton thugs then stole the tapes. Watch the "New Clinton Chronicles" and go to minute 48 for the Gary Johnson interview.

Posted 01 August 2010 - 02:50 AM

Mr. Carroll, that is in your opinion. Both Fletcher Prouty and Victor Krulak worked in close quarters with Edward Lansdale, seeing him many days from all angles. Lots of people can tell their co-workers or relatives from side, angle and even back views. There are some guys with girlfriends with distinctive tattoos on their lower back who these fellas can quickly identify without looking at a face, having seen that "back angle" many times... Lansdale's ring, his stoop, his rectangular head, his style of dress - these are all clues.

Lansdale does have a RECTANGULAR head, doesn't he? I think the photo is the splitting image of Edward Lansdale from the side. Of course, a full frontal facial photo would be better. This photo is extremely valuable and I think one of the keys to the JFK assassination.

#13 J. Raymond Carroll

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 03:24 AM

Mr. Carroll, that is in your opinion. There are some guys with girlfriends with distinctive tattoos on their lower back who these fellas can quickly identify without looking at a face,


Well if you could show me a tattoo on this man's lower back then I might be interested in your identification.

Edited by J. Raymond Carroll, 01 August 2010 - 03:25 AM.


#14 Ron Ecker

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 05:57 AM

In this photo, the man on the far left looks like the man who walked past the tramps. (He's now walking the other way.) It does not look like Lansdale. (It also doesn't look like Taylor.)

http://www.ronaldeck...alepossible.jpg

Edited by Ron Ecker, 01 August 2010 - 05:58 AM.


#15 Ron Ecker

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Posted 01 August 2010 - 06:10 AM

Lansdale's ring, his stoop, his rectangular head, his style of dress - these are all clues.


Taylor also had a ring.

http://www.ronaldeck.../taylorring.jpg

Taylor also had a stooped right shoulder.

http://www.ronaldecker.com/taylor2.jpg

I don't know about a "rectangular head," but Taylor's hair seems more like Prouty's and Krulak's "Lansdale" than does Lansdale's. (And note again the stooped right shoulder.)

http://www.ronaldecker.com/taylor4.jpg




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