In Lee Harvey Oswald's Room

[David Von Pein]

David I have asked this question a few times on here but as yet no one has dared to give an answer. Even a ridiculous one! Maybe you could tell me when YOU think Oswald first made the decision to kill Kennedy.

The answer to that question can never be known. You know that. Everybody knows it's an unanswerable question, and different people will have different opinions about it.

My own "opinion" is that he probably made the decision to try to make an attempt on JFK's life sometime on Wednesday evening, November 20th. He then asks Wes Frazier for the unusual ride to Irving on Thursday morning and LHO invents his "curtain rod" lie at that time.

So it's pretty clear that by Thursday AM, he had it in his mind to make an attempt on JFK's life.

But on Thursday night, per Marina, LHO says that he would get an apartment in Dallas "tomorrow" if she would agree to come back to Dallas with him to live right away. So it's highly unlikely he would have taken that rifle to work with him on Friday if Marina had said "Yes".

The rest is history, of course. LHO took his rifle to work on Nov. 22 and got extremely lucky when he found himself completely alone on the sixth floor at exactly 12:30.

If Bonnie Ray Williams (or other employees) had been up there on the sixth floor at 12:30, there is no way, IMO, that Oswald would have fired a single shot at JFK.

So, yes, Oswald was one LUCKY Presidential assassin on November 22, 1963. No question about that. But he WAS a Presidential assassin that day. There's no question about THAT either.

Edited August 3, 2010 by David Von Pein

[J. Raymond Carroll]

David I have asked this question a few times on here but as yet no one has dared to give an answer. Even a ridiculous one! Maybe you could tell me when YOU think Oswald first made the decision to kill Kennedy.

In the immortal words of John McEnroe:

YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!

Lee Oswald never harmed anyone.

YOU GUYS ARE BUSY COVERING UP THE REAL KILLERS!

[David Von Pein]

I don't believe he [LHO] ever owned one [revolver]. I believe it was planted 100% on him in the theater. I know Duke and Greg are in disagreement over which Police Officer or Detective "planted" the gun. Greg thinks it was Nick McDonald. Duke thinks it was Gerald Hill.

Good lord! What a load of crap this is.

There are actually conspiracy theorists here at this forum who think Oswald DIDN'T OWN A REVOLVER?? Even with Commission Exhibit No. 790 available for everybody to see (which, of course, has Oswald's writing all over it)? Was his handwriting supposedly "planted" on this order form too?:

Plus: To believe that the gun was "planted" on Oswald in the Texas Theater, you've got no choice but to call civilian witness Johnny Brewer a xxxx. Brewer saw Oswald pull out a gun and attempt to shoot policemen with it.

Is Brewer lying here?:

http://dvp-potpourri.blogspot.com/2010/07/johnny-brewer.html

And a whole bunch of different police officers would have to go into the "liars" pool too, who each testified that Oswald pulled out a gun and grappled with the police as he tried to shoot cops with that gun.

Are Nick McDonald and Paul Bentley telling one lie after another here too?:

http://dvp-potpourri.blogspot.com/2010/06/nick-mcdonald-and-paul-bentley.html

Is there any end to the number of people that conspiracists are willing to call liars and cover-up agents? Or is the sky truly the limit?

Edited August 3, 2010 by David Von Pein

[Jack White]

Good grief! Von Pain is back.

I don't believe he [LHO] ever owned one [revolver]. I believe it was planted 100% on him in the theater. I know Duke and Greg are in disagreement over which Police Officer or Detective "planted" the gun. Greg thinks it was Nick McDonald. Duke thinks it was Gerald Hill.

Good lord! What a load of crap this is.

There are actually conspiracy theorists here at this forum who think Oswald DIDN'T OWN A REVOLVER?? Even with Commission Exhibit No. 790 available for everybody to see (which, of course, has Oswald's writing all over it)? Was his handwriting supposedly "planted" on this order form too?:

Plus: To believe that the gun was "planted" on Oswald in the Texas Theater, you've got no choice but to call civilian witness Johnny Brewer a xxxx. Brewer saw Oswald pull out a gun and attempt to shoot policemen with it.

Is Brewer lying here?:

http://dvp-potpourri.blogspot.com/2010/07/johnny-brewer.html

And a whole bunch of different police officers would have to go into the "liars" pool too, who each testified that Oswald pulled out a gun and grappled with the police as he tried to shoot cops with that gun.

And are Nick McDonald and Paul Bentley telling one lie after another here too?:

http://dvp-potpourri.blogspot.com/2010/06/nick-mcdonald-and-paul-bentley.html

Is there any end to the number of people that conspiracists are willing to call liars and cover-up agents? Or is the sky truly the limit?

[William Kelly]

I don't believe he [LHO] ever owned one [revolver]. I believe it was planted 100% on him in the theater. I know Duke and Greg are in disagreement over which Police Officer or Detective "planted" the gun. Greg thinks it was Nick McDonald. Duke thinks it was Gerald Hill.

Good lord! What a load of crap this is.

There are actually conspiracy theorists here at this forum who think Oswald DIDN'T OWN A REVOLVER?? Even with Commission Exhibit No. 790 available for everybody to see (which, of course, has Oswald's writing all over it)? Was his handwriting supposedly "planted" on this order form too?:

Plus: To believe that the gun was "planted" on Oswald in the Texas Theater, you've got no choice but to call civilian witness Johnny Brewer a xxxx. Brewer saw Oswald pull out a gun and attempt to shoot policemen with it.

Is Brewer lying here?:

http://dvp-potpourri...nny-brewer.html

And a whole bunch of different police officers would have to go into the "liars" pool too, who each testified that Oswald pulled out a gun and grappled with the police as he tried to shoot cops with that gun.

And are Nick McDonald and Paul Bentley telling one lie after another here too?:

http://dvp-potpourri...ul-bentley.html

Is there any end to the number of people that conspiracists are willing to call liars and cover-up agents? Or is the sky truly the limit?

Hi Dave,

Good to see you posting here.

Maybe you can answer my question.

If Oswald ordered the pistol in early January, why was it shipped on March 20, the same day as the rifle, from a different company in a different city? What was the delay, did anyone bother to find out?

And who was the witness again, D. F. Drittle?

Was he pals with A. J. Hidell?

And another thing, if Oswald could have bought the pistol and the rifle with cash from any sporting goods or department store in Texas without a record, why did he buy them through the mails?

Thanks,

Bill Kelly

[David Von Pein]

Hi Dave,

Good to see you posting here.

Maybe you can answer my question.

If Oswald ordered the pistol in early January, why was it shipped on March 20, the same day as the rifle, from a different company in a different city? What was the delay, did anyone bother to find out?

Hi Bill,

Good to talk with you again.

I don't have a definitive answer to your question there, Bill. But I will offer up this possibility (which I think is a reasonable answer to this mystery):

I think it's quite possible that Oswald mailed the order forms for both the rifle and the revolver at about the same time--possibly mailing them on the very same day (March 12, 1963).

Just because the Seaport Traders order form has a "January 27" date written in by Oswald, that doesn't necessarily have to mean he mailed that order form on that exact day in January. Maybe he waited and mailed it in March. We can never know for sure.

And who was the witness again, D. F. Drittle [sic]? Was he pals with A. J. Hidell?

Oh, come now, Bill. You're tugging at my lower extremities here, aren't you, you jokester you?

You and I both know that "D.F. Drittal" is another invented name that was created out of thin air by Lee H. Oswald. Just as "A.J. Hidell" was created out of thin air.

So, Drittal and Hidell were pals with nobody--except their inventor, Lee Harvey.

And another thing, if Oswald could have bought the pistol and the rifle with cash from any sporting goods or department store in Texas without a record, why did he buy them through the mail?

I doubt very much that Oswald could have walked into any store in Texas and bought a gun without any record being left behind. I'm pretty sure that's Conspiracy Myth #884, and is one that Oliver Stone propped up as the truth in his 1991 fantasy film too.

Just recently, Jean Davison posted THIS INFORMATION, which deals with this very subject regarding tracing guns that were purchased in brick-and-mortar stores in Texas in 1963.

Albert Yeargan's July 1964 affidavit (which is referenced by Davison in the post linked above) certainly indicates that RECORDS WERE KEPT of the sale of firearms at the H.L. Green Sporting Goods store in 1963.

This whole topic is something that I very recently started thinking about more and more, and via Jean Davison's post linked above, it certainly looks to me as though Oliver Stone (and other CTers) have been peddling a myth regarding Texas gun shops, circa 1963.

I first brought up this topic just last month in fact, in this post (excerpted below):

"I'd like to know if conspiracists are right when they say that

Oswald could have walked into any gun shop or department store in

Texas in 1963 and bought a gun that could never be traced?

"No paperwork was required at a gun shop in Texas in '63? No

signature from the purchaser? Nothing? Just grab the gun and run?

"I'm not saying that perhaps that wasn't how it worked in Texas

gun stores, circa 1963, but I'm just wondering if it really was that

cut-&-dried--even back in '63? I've never really ever seen that

confirmed anywhere (that I can think of).

"Could that be just another of the many conspiracy myths that

we've been saddled with since the JFK assassination--with Oliver Stone

giving it a handy push in his blockbuster movie too? I just wonder.

"~~Thinking about the "Benavides' Brother" myth that was

destroyed recently, with Domingo's brother really being killed in

1965, not 1964~~" -- DVP; July 21, 2010

Edited August 3, 2010 by David Von Pein

[Guest Tom Scully]

I don't believe he [LHO] ever owned one [revolver]. I believe it was planted 100% on him in the theater. I know Duke and Greg are in disagreement over which Police Officer or Detective "planted" the gun. Greg thinks it was Nick McDonald. Duke thinks it was Gerald Hill.

Good lord! What a load of crap this is.

There are actually conspiracy theorists here at this forum who think Oswald DIDN'T OWN A REVOLVER?? Even with Commission Exhibit No. 790 available for everybody to see (which, of course, has Oswald's writing all over it)? Was his handwriting supposedly "planted" on this order form too?:

Plus: To believe that the gun was "planted" on Oswald in the Texas Theater, you've got no choice but to call civilian witness Johnny Brewer a xxxx. Brewer saw Oswald pull out a gun and attempt to shoot policemen with it.

Is Brewer lying here?:

http://dvp-potpourri.blogspot.com/2010/07/johnny-brewer.html

And a whole bunch of different police officers would have to go into the "liars" pool too, who each testified that Oswald pulled out a gun and grappled with the police as he tried to shoot cops with that gun.

Are Nick McDonald and Paul Bentley telling one lie after another here too?:

http://dvp-potpourri.blogspot.com/2010/06/nick-mcdonald-and-paul-bentley.html

Is there any end to the number of people that conspiracists are willing to call liars and cover-up agents? Or is the sky truly the limit?

How certain are you that "Drittal" is spelled with an "a"?

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=Ana+Drittel+cello&btnG=Search+Archives&ned=us&hl=en&scoring=a

ANNA SOKOLOW IN DANCE RECITAL; Offers 'Facade-Esposizione Italians...

- New York Times - Feb 27, 1939

As assisting artist, Ana Drittel offered two ..groups of 'cello solos...

[David Von Pein]

Well, Drittal certainly isn't spelled with an "LE" (Drittle) as William Kelly suggested in an earlier post.

It looks like DRITTAL to me (via CE790).

What's it look like to you, Tom Scully?

[James R Gordon]

David,

I noticed the image you posted of Oswald's room. However you omitted to inform us when it was taken.

I know this is slightly off-topic, but maybe you will address it.

In the image you show Oswald's curtain rails are in place.

The one I have posted, is documented to have been taken on Saturday 23rd. And in that image the curtain rails are being put back in place.

Now Oswald always claimed that he took his curtain rods to work. If you are right and he actually took the rifle, why was it necessary to replace his curtain rods.

Had someone taken them down since he had left for work????

James

[David Von Pein]

Jim D.,

All of those "problems" that you think exist regarding Lee Oswald's revolver evaporate immediately when you take one good look at CE790 [in conjunction with the last paragraph in this post].

CE790 is a Seaport Traders order form that was filled out by Lee Harvey Oswald himself. Hence, he ordered the gun.

Was Oswald's handwriting forged onto that Seaport Traders order form too, Jim? And how did the unknown/unseen "they" do that, Jim?

"They" were sure good at duplicating Lee Oswald's handwriting and handprinting on a myriad of documents associated with this case, weren't they, Jim?

All of this "did he order it or didn't he?" business is just another of the thousands of smokescreens put up by conspiracy theorists who are desperate to exonerate a double-murderer named Oswald.

And in the revolver instance, it's especially silly.

Why?

Because even if we didn't have CE790 to confirm that Oswald himself ordered Smith & Wesson revolver #V510210, so what?

We know for a fact that S&W revolver #V510210 was the Tippit murder weapon (and CTers can't use the "Poe didn't mark the shells" excuse; I'll explain to you why if you want me to), and we know for a fact that Oswald was brandishing that same gun in his own hands just 35 minutes after Tippit was slain.

So that's the key bottom-line fact: The Tippit murder weapon was in the possession of Oswald on 11/22/63, and he was caught red-handed with it in the Texas Theater just half-an-hour after that same gun was used to murder J.D. Tippit.

Edited August 5, 2010 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

James R. Gordon,

The photo linked below was (purportedly) taken on the afternoon of the assassination by LIFE Magazine's Allan Grant. There are curtains and curtain rods in place:

Oswald's Room; 11-22-63

Also -- Hugh Aynesworth told me last year that he saw the curtains and curtain rods in Oswald's Beckley room on the afternoon of Nov. 22nd:

"David: I was in that rooming house -- Oswald's room -- within two hours of him leaving it that day and there were good curtains and rods there. Absolutely no reason to replace them." -- Hugh Aynesworth; September 15, 2009

Edited August 3, 2010 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

Yeah, Jim, I thought you'd like the Aynesworth quote.

Naturally, Jim DiEugenio thinks Aynesworth is (and always was) nothing but a rotten, evil CIA-sponsored xxxx.

Good job, Jim. You're doing great in the "Everybody's A xxxx" regard.

Edited August 3, 2010 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

Oh, I forgot about Johnny Brewer!

Yep, you sure did. Better watch this video again, James:

(I'll now await the addition of Johnny C. Brewer to Jim DiEugenio's ever-growing list of

"Liars/Crooks/Cover-Up Operatives". Brewer's going on that list of yours, right Jim? Don't

disappoint me now.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrN0VkJUxas

Edited August 3, 2010 by David Von Pein

[Guest Tom Scully]

Well, Drittal certainly isn't spelled with an "LE" (Drittle) as William Kelly suggested in an earlier post.

It looks like DRITTAL to me (via CE790).

What's it look like to you, Tom Scully?

I think it is reasonable to interpret that scrawled out name as DE Drittel. Oswald wasn't represented by a lawyer, didn't have a criminal trial,

and the Warren Commissioners, and investigative counsel, as well as the Dallas PD and the FBI, seemed highly compromised and afflicted with numerous

conflicts of interests and incidences of pertinent information being withheld. A lawyer appointed to represent Oswald's interests in pursuing discovery, examining evidence and challenging conclusions of government witnesses, and cross-examining them, conducting an investigation on Oswald's behalf, producing friendly witnesses, etc., would have influenced me to be less skeptical of the official findings.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh26/pdf/WH26_CE_3088.pdf

From CE3088

...MICHAELIS located and furnished a printed mail order form clipped from a

publication, which he could not identify, which had been received

by his company ordering one " .38 ST . W . 2" BBL ." for $29 .95 .

This order transmitted $1.0 cash, bore an illegible name,

which appears to be A . G . or A . J . HIDELL, age 28, date of

order, January 27 (no year shown), Post Office Box 2915,

Dallas, Texas . The order was filled out in ink and witnessing

the statement thereon that the person ordering the gun was a U . S . citizen, not convicted of a felony, was a name which

appeared to be D . E . DRITTAL . Also written in Ink on the order form was an order for one box of ammunition and one

holster, but a line was drawn through these items, cancelling

that portion of the order ...

[David Von Pein]

Only in the world of Reclaiming History could such silliness be accepted.

And only in the world of conspiracy-giddy theorists could such things like OSWALD BEING CAUGHT WITH THE MURDER WEAPON ON HIM within 35 minutes of the murder of a policeman be considered "silliness".

You're doing great, Jim. Please continue. And I want to hear more about your fantasy about Wes Frazier and Linnie Randle being forced by the rotten & corrupt DPD to make up the "bag" story out of whole cloth.

That's a tale Aesop would reject out of hand.

Edited August 3, 2010 by David Von Pein