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Mac Wallace-Evidence is enough.


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#1 John Bockmon

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 03:53 AM

Evidence---Mac's finger print on the sixth floor. Why is this not enough evidence to say that he WAS involved in the shooting? This is more evidence than most we have talked about in this forum, but for some reason it's not a final conclusion to the conspiracy. Why is this?

#2 Robert Morrow

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    I would bet my house, my car, and my bank account that the Clintons & Buddy Young sent 3 Arkansas state trooper goons to beat the living hell out of and nearly murder Gary Johnson (the lawyer for Larry Nichols & neighbor of Gennifer Flowers) on June 26, 1992. They did this because Gary Johnson had security camera videotapes of Bill Clinton often entering Gennifer's condo. The Clintons were denying the Bill/Gennifer affair at that time. The Clinton thugs then stole the tapes. Watch the "New Clinton Chronicles" and go to minute 48 for the Gary Johnson interview.

Posted 05 November 2011 - 06:13 AM

Evidence---Mac's finger print on the sixth floor. Why is this not enough evidence to say that he WAS involved in the shooting? This is more evidence than most we have talked about in this forum, but for some reason it's not a final conclusion to the conspiracy. Why is this?


I believe Lyndon Johnson was the mastermind of the JFK assassination. I used to believe Malcolm Wallace's fingerprint was a match with the one on the 6th floor. I do not anymore. I have changed my mind base on a conversation I had with an experienced fingerprint analyst who said it was clearly NOT a match.

I cannot find the link to the web page where Malcolm Wallace's fingerprint was debunked. I am sure there are other JFK researchers on this board who can.

Hey, maybe Malcolm Wallace was on the Grassy Knoll after all!! As per the theory of Billie Sol Estes.

Edited by Robert Morrow, 05 November 2011 - 06:14 AM.


#3 Duncan MacRae

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 12:03 PM

Evidence---Mac's finger print on the sixth floor. Why is this not enough evidence to say that he WAS involved in the shooting? This is more evidence than most we have talked about in this forum, but for some reason it's not a final conclusion to the conspiracy. Why is this?



It's not enough, because no unidentified fingerprints were ever found.

#4 Gil Jesus

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 12:21 PM

It's not enough, because no unidentified fingerprints were ever found.



I think what you mean to say is that all of the identifiable fingerprints they found were identified.

Because unidentifiable fingerprints WERE found on the boxes.

".....prints were developed which were considered as not identifiable, i.e., the quality of the print was too fragmentary to be of value for identification purposes......"( Report, pg. 249 )

There is no evidence that an identifiable fingerprint which could not be identified was found on any of the boxes.

At least I haven't seen any.

But FWIW, I've seen the "Wallace" print and the print from his arrest card and compared them and IMO, if that print actually came from the sixth floor, it's not Wallace's.

The only identifiable print that they found and could not identify was on Box "B" and it was a PALMPRINT, not a fingerprint.

"One identifiable palmprint was not identified."

( ibid. )

"One palmprint on Box B was unidentified."

( Report, pg. 566 )

John, there's nothing wrong with being skeptical about "explosive new evidence" that comes to the forefront of this case. My own experience tells me that when one of these new revelations becomes public and dies out quickly, there's probably not much to it. That's the reason why you don't see people talking about it much. Also, I'm leery of those who come forward to confess "I did it", because there is no statute of limitations on murder and I find it diffcult to believe that anyone with substantial proof of their own guilt would risk the death penalty.

Edited by Gil Jesus, 05 November 2011 - 02:27 PM.


#5 Robert Howard

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 04:38 PM


It's not enough, because no unidentified fingerprints were ever found.



I think what you mean to say is that all of the identifiable fingerprints they found were identified.

Because unidentifiable fingerprints WERE found on the boxes.

".....prints were developed which were considered as not identifiable, i.e., the quality of the print was too fragmentary to be of value for identification purposes......"( Report, pg. 249 )

There is no evidence that an identifiable fingerprint which could not be identified was found on any of the boxes.

At least I haven't seen any.

But FWIW, I've seen the "Wallace" print and the print from his arrest card and compared them and IMO, if that print actually came from the sixth floor, it's not Wallace's.

The only identifiable print that they found and could not identify was on Box "B" and it was a PALMPRINT, not a fingerprint.

"One identifiable palmprint was not identified."

( ibid. )

"One palmprint on Box B was unidentified."

( Report, pg. 566 )

John, there's nothing wrong with being skeptical about "explosive new evidence" that comes to the forefront of this case. My own experience tells me that when one of these new revelations becomes public and dies out quickly, there's probably not much to it. That's the reason why you don't see people talking about it much. Also, I'm leery of those who come forward to confess "I did it", because there is no statute of limitations on murder and I find it diffcult to believe that anyone with substantial proof of their own guilt would risk the death penalty.

There was, at one time as Gil Jesus points out an unidentified fingerprint, I've read Blood Money and Power, but I am like anyone
else who isn't an insider to the fingerprint issue re Mac Wallace, and have never read anything that could be proven in a court of law
that is conclusive, my only reason for posting on this thread is to say that there is a document or perhaps in a book that stated the unidentified
print actually belonged to Will Fritz or Chief Curry, which I don't believe for a minute. I am sure someone knows the truth, but they aren't on our side.
Although that is strictly an opinion.

#6 Gil Jesus

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 03:12 PM

There is no evidence that an identifiable fingerprint which could not be identified was found on any of the boxes.

At least I haven't seen any.


I stand corrected. There were actually TWO unidentified fingerprints found on box A. They are shown in CE 656.

http://www.history-m...Vol17_0164b.htm

Mr. MANDELLA. "Center impression No. 2 finger Oswald from Box A photo--latent on left unidentified Photo Nos. 25 and 27 identical--Negative with Oswald unidentified."

Mr. EISENBERG. "Negative with Oswald," are you referring now to two of the three photographs--two of the three prints appearing on the photograph?

Mr. MANDELLA. That is right, two prints, exactly, the one in the center, of course I am not in reference to the one in the center, which is his. The two on the right and left are unidentified.

( 4 H 52 )

"Negative with Oswald" tells me that the unidentified prints were legible enough for comparison. "Unidentified" tells me that no match could be found.

#7 Kathleen Collins

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 05:49 AM


There is no evidence that an identifiable fingerprint which could not be identified was found on any of the boxes.

At least I haven't seen any.


I stand corrected. There were actually TWO unidentified fingerprints found on box A. They are shown in CE 656.

http://www.history-m...Vol17_0164b.htm

Mr. MANDELLA. "Center impression No. 2 finger Oswald from Box A photo--latent on left unidentified Photo Nos. 25 and 27 identical--Negative with Oswald unidentified."

Mr. EISENBERG. "Negative with Oswald," are you referring now to two of the three photographs--two of the three prints appearing on the photograph?

Mr. MANDELLA. That is right, two prints, exactly, the one in the center, of course I am not in reference to the one in the center, which is his. The two on the right and left are unidentified.

( 4 H 52 )

"Negative with Oswald" tells me that the unidentified prints were legible enough for comparison. "Unidentified" tells me that no match could be found.


Wasn't it much later that someone took an "unidentified" fingerprint and matched it to Wallace?

Kathy C

#8 Thomas Graves

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 03:05 PM

[...]
"One identifiable palmprint was not identified."
( ibid. ) [...]


Well gosh, if the darned FBI can't identify a fingerprint or a palmprint, doesn't that make it unidentifiable? LOL Perhaps they should have said "readable" instead of "identifiable"?
Ahhhh...words. :blink: Gotta love 'em.

--Tommy

Edited by Thomas Graves, 10 November 2011 - 03:30 PM.


#9 Robert Morrow

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    ALSO ===>

    I would bet my house, my car, and my bank account that the Clintons & Buddy Young sent 3 Arkansas state trooper goons to beat the living hell out of and nearly murder Gary Johnson (the lawyer for Larry Nichols & neighbor of Gennifer Flowers) on June 26, 1992. They did this because Gary Johnson had security camera videotapes of Bill Clinton often entering Gennifer's condo. The Clintons were denying the Bill/Gennifer affair at that time. The Clinton thugs then stole the tapes. Watch the "New Clinton Chronicles" and go to minute 48 for the Gary Johnson interview.

Posted 02 February 2012 - 09:00 PM

Here is a debunking of the Mac Wallace fingerprint. I currently do NOT believe it was a match.

http://www.clpex.com...neous-Match.htm

Last year I spoke with fingerprint examiner Kasey Wertheim who had 7 years fingerprint experience as of 2011. Wertheim was stressing to me that the fingerprints in question were a blatant and obvious non match. Wertheim does contract work for law enforcement, including, I think the FBI.

Nathan Darby was an honest man and certainly an experienced and competent fingerprint examiner. However, he probably just got it wrong.

Having said that, if multiple other fingerprint examiners tell me it was a match, then I would change my mind again. But for now, I do not think the Malcolm Wallace fingerprint is a match with the one found on the Sixth Floor of TSBD.

Kasey Wertheim:

NATHAN DARBY'S Erroneous ID

On March 12, 1998, a 1951 fingerprint of Malcolm "Mac" Wallace was positively matched with a copy of a fingerprint labeled "Unknown," a fresh print lifted on November 22, 1963, from a carton by the southeast sixth floor window of the Texas School Book Depository. This carton was labeled "Box A," and also contained several fingerprints identified as those of Lee Harvey Oswald. The identification was made by A. Nathan Darby, a Certified Latent Print Examiner with several decades experience.
http://www.spartacus...uk/JFKestes.htm

A March 9, 1998 affidavit recounts Nathan Darby's work history:

His employment began with the Texas Department of Public Safety in 1938. In October of 1940 he joined the Austin Texas Police Department. He was promoted to sergeant in 1948 and lieutenant in 1953. He became supervisor of the Identification and Criminal Records Section in 1956. He was on the board of directors of the Texas Division of the International Association for Identification. He held an Advanced Certificate in Law Enforcement and an Instructors Certificate from the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement. He was a member of the Texas Division of the International Association for Identification from November 1946 until his death.
http://www.acorn.net...ssue/darby.html

Darby did a "blind" study comparing a fingerprint found on one of the boxes in the Kennedy assassination "sniper's" nest against Malcolm Wallace's fingerprint card. He determined there was a match. However in his 1998 affidavit concerning the study he conducted I found the following:

"7. "Recently I received a photocopy of an inked print along with a photocopy of a latent print from [Texas researcher]. After careful and extended examination of the inked print photocopy and the latent print photocopy given me. I have their identifying characteristics marked and numbered. The inked print is Exhibit DAN #3, and the latent print is Exhibit DAN #4." (Emphasis mine)

http://davesjfk.com/guilty.html

The charted enlargements Mr. Darby presented in defense of his findings can be found at: http://spot.acorn.ne.../breakthru.html as copied on May 18, 2007.

To demonstrate a couple of the major differences, I offer the following analysis. The images used for this analysis are not high-resolution images, and are not considered to be "best evidence" under a legal standard. These demonstrations have been prepared based upon the only images available - those copied from the spot.acorn.net url above. They bear sufficient quality and quantity of ridge detail to accurately demonstrate that the impressions were not made by the same source, as purported in the article. These images were originally prepared on May 18, 2007 for demonstration of exclusion to readers of a google newsgroup circulating this as a correct identification. The conclusion of exclusion is based on a review by the author of this web page, Kasey Wertheim, an IAI Certified Latent Print Examiner, in a capacity associated solely with his private business (Complete Consultants Worldwide) and not in an any official capacity with any government agency or other organization.

Demonstration 1:

In this first demonstration, the green short ridge was marked by Mr. Darby as being identical (#6 and #7). However, if the reader will proceed upward across the divergence of two ridges (blue) another ending ridge can clearly be seen in the latent print, and it is clearly not present in the known print. There is sufficient quality of detail in both images to determine that this is not a product of any type of distortion, but rather is an actual difference in the two friction ridge sources. The two impressions could not have been made by the same friction ridge source.

Demonstration 2

In this second demonstration, the green ridge ending was marked by Mr. Darby as being identical (#3). However, if the reader will proceed upward and to the right, the divergence of two ridges (blue) reveals another clear feature (red ending ridge) in the latent print, and it is clearly not present in the known print. There is sufficient quality of detail in both images to determine that this is not a product of any type of distortion, but rather is an actual difference in the two friction ridge sources. The two impressions could not have been made by the same friction ridge source.

Additional demonstrations could be made, but I think readers will get the point after just these 2. This was an erroneous identification.

For readers wishing to do some additional research on this case, I make reference to several starting points.

There was some 2004 activity in a JFK-related blog that provides some history, background, and insight. This includes reference that two San-Bernardino examiners refuted the identification in 1998:
http://educationforu...?showtopic=2321

A. Nathan Darby would go to his grave (in his own words) believing, with all his experience, and "with no question" they positively matched, and he would say so to anyone who asked, including the media.
with attention to segment 3:52 - 4:14

Darby died in 2006 at the age of 91.
http://www.clpex.com...by-Obituary.pdf

The heart of his work occurred in the 1940's and 1950's, and could potentially be stretched into the 1960's. Why 30 years after his service in the state of Texas, at the age of 83, would he undertake a complex examination and issue an affidavit of identification in one of the largest forensic cases in the world, based only upon photocopies?

#10 Robert Morrow

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    ALSO ===>

    I would bet my house, my car, and my bank account that the Clintons & Buddy Young sent 3 Arkansas state trooper goons to beat the living hell out of and nearly murder Gary Johnson (the lawyer for Larry Nichols & neighbor of Gennifer Flowers) on June 26, 1992. They did this because Gary Johnson had security camera videotapes of Bill Clinton often entering Gennifer's condo. The Clintons were denying the Bill/Gennifer affair at that time. The Clinton thugs then stole the tapes. Watch the "New Clinton Chronicles" and go to minute 48 for the Gary Johnson interview.

Posted 03 February 2012 - 12:30 AM

Here is the web page of fingerprint examiner Kasey Wertheim: http://www.clpex.com...ey_wertheim.php

I think he is highly qualified in his field. Below I have posted Kasey Wertheim's resume and contact info.

I do not think the Malcolm Wallace fingerprint is a match with the unidentified one from the TSBD 6th floor. I feel this way based on a conversation last summer with fingerprint expert Kasey Wertheim. When I spoke to Wertheim he did not seem like he had an agenda. I felt like I was getting his honest, and strongly held opinion that there was absolutely no match. He ssaid it was not even a close call.

Having said that, I am always open to change my mind on anything. I am not an expert in fingerprint analysis. If a bunch of other experienced, qualified fingerprint examiners told me it was a match, I would flip back the other way.

Kasey Wertheim Curriculum Vitae:

IAI Certified Latent Print Examiner
MBA - Technology Management
President, CEO: Complete Consultants Worldwide, LLC

Contact information:

Phone: 304-933-3162 Cell: 304-629-6795 wk e-mail: kasey.wertheim@us.army.mil hm e-mail: kaseywertheim@aol.com or kwertheim@clpex.com


K A S E Y W E R T H E I M

IAI Certified Latent Print Examiner
MBA - Technology Management
President, CEO: Complete Consultants Worldwide, LLC

Phone: 304-933-3162 Cell: 304-629-6795 wk e-mail: kasey.wertheim@us.army.mil hm e-mail: kaseywertheim@aol.com or kwertheim@clpex.com

CV Updated January 11, 2008

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Assist the U.S. Government with biometric and forensic related projects on multiple contracts
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COMPUTER SCIENCES CORPORATION
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Examination of Physical Evidence for latent prints
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Entry of unidentified latent prints on AFIS
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Bachelor of Science
Major: Chemistry, May 12, 1995
Double Major: Criminal Justice, May 12, 1995

HARDING UNIVERSITY, SEARCY, AR
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July, 2006
Lockheed Martin SRA Excellence Award
By Lockheed Martin Identity Management

January, 2006
Program/Customer Award
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July, 2005
Lockheed Martin SPOT Award
By Lockheed Martin Identity Management

2001
Awarded Distinguished Member Status
By the International Association for Identification

Professional Associations:

NIST / NIJ EXPERT WORKING GROUP ON HUMAN FACTORS IN LATENT PRINT ANALYSIS
December 2008 - present: Invited, Active Member

SCIENTIFIC WORKING GROUP ON FRICTION RIDGE ANALYSIS, STUDY AND TECHNOLOGY (SWGFAST)
October 2002 - present: Active Member

ANSI-NIST Committee to Define an Extended Fingerprint Feature Set (CDEFFS)
2005 - present: Active Member

International Association for Identification, Parent Body
1997 - present: Active, Distinguished Member
1999 - 2000: Member, General and Innovative Techniques committee
2000 - present: Member, Editorial Review Board
2001 Awarded Distinguished Member Status
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Jerry Bahr, Sponsored by MCL, March 1997

Advanced Palm Print Identification (48 hours)
Palm Print Symposium, April 1997

Taking Inked Fingerprints (40 hours)
MCL, May 1997

The History of the Science of Fingerprints (16 hours)
Jamie Bush, MCL, June 1997

Recovery of Fingerprints from Human Skin (6 hours)
IAI, July 1997

Violent Crime Scenes (13 hours)
MDIAI, April 1998

Advanced (Chemical) Latent Print Development Techniques (40 hours)
Bill Jungbluth, Sponsored by MCL, June 1998

Advanced Digital Imaging (4 hours)
IAI, July 1998

Writing for Publication (4 hours)
Dave Grieve, IAI, July 1998

Law Enforcement Field Instructor Training Program (24 hours)
Department of the Treasury, Federal Law Enforcement Training Center,
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Combined Advanced Ridgeology, Demystifying Palmprints, and
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Tire Track Identification Workshop (4 hours)
IAI, July 1999

Collection and Preservation of Footwear Impression Evidence (6 hours)
IAI, July 1999

Graduate Assistant: Combined Advanced Ridgeology, Demystifying
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Forensic Identification Training Seminars, October 1999

Advanced Techniques for Photographing Shoe and Fingerprints (4 hours)
IAI, July 2000

Introduction to Computer Forensics (3 hours)
IAI, July 2000

Digital Imaging Hands-On Image Processing Techniques (4 hours)
IAI, July 2000

Courtroom Testimony Techniques (15 hours)
Mississippi Division, IAI, October 2000

Digital Photography and Imaging (24 hours)
MLEOTA, October 2000

Death Scene Investigation (40 hours)
MLEOTA, December, 2000

Crime Scene Practical Exercises (32 hours)
MLEOTA, July, 2001

Graduate Assistant: Combined Advanced Ridgeology, Demystifying Palmprints, and Comparison Techniques (40 hours)
Forensic Identification Training Seminars, October, 2001

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Inside the Tape (Death Scene Investigation) (20 hours)
David Newman, Gulfport Mississippi, October, 2003

Management Fundamentals Program (Lockheed Martin Internal Management) (40 hours)
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An Extreme Case of Fingerprint Mutilation (Poster Presentation)
IAI, July 1997

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IAI, July 1998

Recovery of Latent Print Evidence Involving Transfers from Adhesive to Porous
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IAI, July 1999

Basic Latent Print Processing and Advanced Latent Print Comparison (40 hours)
British West Indies, Turks and Caicos Police Department, November, 1999

Friction Ridge Skin and Pattern Formation During the “Critical Stage” (Lecture Presentation) IAI, July 2000

Friction Ridge Pattern Formation During the “Critical Stage” (Lecture Presentation)
Illinois Division of the IAI, April, 2001

Advanced Ridgeology Comparison Techniques (40 hours)
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Friction Ridge Skin and Pattern Formation During the “Critical Stage,” Fact and Theory (Lecture Presentation)
Centennial Conference, London, England, July 2001

Mindset over Matter: Case Study of a suspect identification from a latent print developed on a fired .22 caliber shell casing. (Poster Presentation)
IAI, July, 2001

Ridgeology Science Workshop (40 hours)
Thornton, Colorado, August, 2001

Ridgeology Science Workshop (40 hours)
Bettendorf, Iowa, November, 2001

Ridgeology Science Workshop (40 hours)
Modesto, California, December, 2001

Ridgeology Science Workshop (40 hours)
Norfolk, Virginia, April/May, 2002

Ridgeology Science Workshop (120 hours) (three separate courses)
Bedfordshire Police, June, 2002

Scientific Latent Print Examiner Testimony on Daubert and Plaza Issues (Lecture Presentation)
IAI Conference, Las Vegas Nevada, August 6, 2002

Sharing Forensic Discipline Information via the Internet (Lecture Presentation)
IAI Conference, Las Vegas Nevada, August 7, 2002

Latent Adobe Photoshop Demonstration in the Van Dam / David Westerfield Case (40 hours)
IAI Conference, Las Vegas Nevada, August 8, 2002

Ridgeology Science Workshop (40 hours)
Atlanta, Georgia, August 26-30, 2002

Ridgeology Science Workshop (40 hours)
Arlington, Texas, October 7 - 11, 2002

Ridgeology Science Workshop (Condensed) for Combined Advanced Ridgeology, Demystifying Palm Prints, And Comparison Techniques (CARDPACT) (16 hours)
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Ridge and Pattern Formation, Fingerprint Mutilation, and Forensic Internet Information (Lecture Presentation)
New England Division IAI, November 15, 2002

Mastering Adobe Photoshop (24 hours)
Pearl, Mississippi, December 16 - 18, 2002

Ridgeology Science Workshop (40 hours)
Las Vegas, Nevada, January 20 - 24, 2003

Daubert: The Challenge (Lecture Presentation)
Toronto Police Service Conference, Canada, February 24, 2003

Ridgeology Science Workshop (40 hours)
2 courses
Leicestershire, England, March, 2003

Ridgeology Science Workshop (40 hours)
Columbia, South Carolina, April-May, 2003

The Use of Various Software Programs in the Analysis and Courtroom Demonstration of Latent Print Evidence (8 hours)
South Carolina / North Carolina IAI Conference, September, 2003

Ridgeology Science Workshop (40 hours)
Suffolk County Police Department, October, 2003

Ridgeology Science Workshop (40 hours)
Milwaukee Wisconsin, November, 2003

Ridgeology Science Workshop (40 hours)
Milwaukee Wisconsin, November, 2003

Ridgeology Science Workshop (40 hours)
Orange County, California, December, 2003

Ridgeology Science Workshop (40 hours)
San Bernardino Sheriff's Office, December, 2003

Ridgeology Science Workshop (40 hours)
Nashville, Tennessee, February, 2004

Ridgeology Science Workshop (two 40-hour courses)
Ireland, March and April, 2004

Ridgeology Science Workshop (40 hours)
Arlington, TX, November, 2004

Ridgeology Science Workshop (40 hours)
West Palm Beach Florida, February, 2005

Advanced Problem Latent Print Examination (two 40 hour courses)
Switzerland, 2006

Ridgeology Science Workshop (40 hours)
South Africa Police Services, February 2008

Articles Published:

An Extreme Case of Fingerprint Mutilation
Journal of Forensic Identification, Jul./Aug. 1998, Vol 48, No. 4

Use of Ninhydrin in the Recovery of Latent Prints on Evidence Involving Adhesive
Surfaces attached to Porous Surfaces
Journal of Forensic Identification, Nov./Dec. 2000, Vol 50, No. 6

Tools to Combat Check Fraud in Mississippi
Magnolia Print, January, 2002

Friction Ridge & Pattern Formation During the Critical Stage
Journal of Forensic Identification, Jan/Feb 2002, Vol 52, No. 1

Re: ACE-V - is it Scientifically Reliable and Accurate?
Journal of Forensic Identification, Nov/Dec 2002, Vol 52, No. 6

Latent Print Age Determination - Is There Any Hope?
Journal of Forensic Identification, Jan/Feb 2003, Vol 53, No. 1

The Use of Various Software Programs in the Analysis and Courtroom
Demonstration of Latent Print Evidence
Journal of Forensic Identification, Nov/Dec 2003, Vol 53, No. 6

A Report of Latent Print Examiner Accuracy During Comparison Training Exercises
Journal of Forensic Identification, Nov/Dec 2005, Vol 56, No. 1

Re: A Report of Latent Print Examiner Accuracy During Comparison Training Exercises
Journal of Forensic Identification, Mar/Apr 2006, Vol 56, No. 3

Edited by Robert Morrow, 03 February 2012 - 12:31 AM.





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