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Zapruder 456 - 459: Leapin' Lampost!


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#1 Daniel Meyer

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 07:09 PM

Frames 456 through 459 of the Zapruder film look to me to show something astonishing.

http://www.jfkassass...ramesviewer.php Zapruder film viewer

Look at that lamp post towards the rear of the limo. It looks like the bottom part leaps from being anchored on the near side of the street in 457 to the far side in 458 and back again in 459.

Well, if that really happened, the Zapruder film would have captured something even more astonishing than the assassination of a President!

So... What's going on here?

Do all known prints show this?

If this is some type of optical illusion, what is the phenomenon, and can people give other examples of films where this can be seen?

(I request replies addressing what is seen in this particular segment of the film, rather than broader arguments on the authenticity/lack of authenticity of the film, thank you.)

Edited by Daniel Meyer, 25 November 2011 - 07:09 PM.


#2 Greg Burnham

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 07:37 PM

Frames 456 through 459 of the Zapruder film look to me to show something astonishing.

http://www.jfkassass...ramesviewer.php Zapruder film viewer

Look at that lamp post towards the rear of the limo. It looks like the bottom part leaps from being anchored on the near side of the street in 457 to the far side in 458 and back again in 459.

Well, if that really happened, the Zapruder film would have captured something even more astonishing than the assassination of a President!

So... What's going on here?

Do all known prints show this?

If this is some type of optical illusion, what is the phenomenon, and can people give other examples of films where this can be seen?

(I request replies addressing what is seen in this particular segment of the film, rather than broader arguments on the authenticity/lack of authenticity of the film, thank you.)


It does look peculiar, especially because you can still see--what appears to be--the bright reflection off of the back fender at a point where the light pole should be blocking that reflection from our view, IMO. Perhaps this can be explained as being due to a property of bright light when it is exposed onto film. Maybe the brightness of the reflection is sufficient to make it "bleed" around the darker pole, obscuring the latter from view. Just a guess, FWIW.

#3 Daniel Meyer

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 07:54 PM

(edit... I tried to post cropped images of the 4 frames in question, but get the notice "Sorry, but you have posted more images than you are allowed to" )

Edited by Daniel Meyer, 25 November 2011 - 08:16 PM.


#4 Chris Davidson

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 08:46 PM

Hi Daniel,

Here's what it looks like if you stabilize the light post, somewhat.

http://i140.photobuc...3steamn/Z-3.gif

chris

Edited by Chris Davidson, 25 November 2011 - 08:47 PM.


#5 Daniel Meyer

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 11:20 PM

Hi Daniel,

Here's what it looks like if you stabilize the light post, somewhat.

http://i140.photobuc...3steamn/Z-3.gif

chris



Thanks. For clarity, here's 458 where the lamp post seems to be on the far rather than near side of the street.

Posted Image

#6 Jim Phelps

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 11:24 PM

Looks to me like the frame 459 stems from substantial camera movement that blurs the lamp, yet keeps the limo on a better focus.

That movement really weakens the lamps image on the frame 459.

#7 Ed LeDoux

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 01:10 PM

Hello Daniel,

I thought for a second the frames were out of order...but that is not a reason for the LP to change sides of the street and go from in front to behind the limo.

Nice eye Mr. Meyer!

456 shows a brightly lit street impinging on both sides of the lamp post causing it to neck down in this area.

457 shows the Lamp Post covering a portion of the Continental Kit (Spare Tire Cover) and Clint Hill almost disappears into the dark background. No distortion of the LP since it is surrounded by dark objects.

But for 458 to be believed would mean the bumper reflection was so bright as to render the lamp post as thin as a pencil, and the reflection would have to be equally bright on both sides of the LP on that bumper to accomplish this. A possibility.

Ed

#8 Ian Kingsbury

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 02:13 AM

Hello Daniel,

I thought for a second the frames were out of order...but that is not a reason for the LP to change sides of the street and go from in front to behind the limo.

Nice eye Mr. Meyer!

456 shows a brightly lit street impinging on both sides of the lamp post causing it to neck down in this area.

457 shows the Lamp Post covering a portion of the Continental Kit (Spare Tire Cover) and Clint Hill almost disappears into the dark background. No distortion of the LP since it is surrounded by dark objects.

But for 458 to be believed would mean the bumper reflection was so bright as to render the lamp post as thin as a pencil, and the reflection would have to be equally bright on both sides of the LP on that bumper to accomplish this. A possibility.

Ed




Ed

The angle between the limo and camera appears to change drastically between 458 and 459 ,It maybe an effect of the camera, unless Greer veered to the right massively?.

Posted Image


Ian

#9 Ian Kingsbury

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 05:12 PM


Hello Daniel,

I thought for a second the frames were out of order...but that is not a reason for the LP to change sides of the street and go from in front to behind the limo.

Nice eye Mr. Meyer!

456 shows a brightly lit street impinging on both sides of the lamp post causing it to neck down in this area.

457 shows the Lamp Post covering a portion of the Continental Kit (Spare Tire Cover) and Clint Hill almost disappears into the dark background. No distortion of the LP since it is surrounded by dark objects.

But for 458 to be believed would mean the bumper reflection was so bright as to render the lamp post as thin as a pencil, and the reflection would have to be equally bright on both sides of the LP on that bumper to accomplish this. A possibility.

Ed




Ed

The angle between the limo and camera appears to change drastically between 458 and 459 ,It maybe an effect of the camera, unless Greer veered to the right massively?.

Posted Image


Ian



I am seeing a drastic angle change in the limo between 458 and 459 can anybody else see it ?.Or is it a camera anomaly?.

#10 Ian Kingsbury

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 05:13 PM


Hello Daniel,

I thought for a second the frames were out of order...but that is not a reason for the LP to change sides of the street and go from in front to behind the limo.

Nice eye Mr. Meyer!

456 shows a brightly lit street impinging on both sides of the lamp post causing it to neck down in this area.

457 shows the Lamp Post covering a portion of the Continental Kit (Spare Tire Cover) and Clint Hill almost disappears into the dark background. No distortion of the LP since it is surrounded by dark objects.

But for 458 to be believed would mean the bumper reflection was so bright as to render the lamp post as thin as a pencil, and the reflection would have to be equally bright on both sides of the LP on that bumper to accomplish this. A possibility.

Ed




Ed

The angle between the limo and camera appears to change drastically between 458 and 459 ,It maybe an effect of the camera, unless Greer veered to the right massively?.

Posted Image


Ian



I am seeing a drastic angle change in the limo between 458 and 459 can anybody else see it ?.Or is it a camera anomaly?.

#11 Ed LeDoux

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 05:41 PM

The angle between the limo and camera appears to change drastically between 458 and 459 ,It maybe an effect of the camera, unless Greer veered to the right massively?.

I am seeing a drastic angle change in the limo between 458 and 459 can anybody else see it ?.Or is it a camera anomaly?.


Hey Ian,

There is a bit more motion blur to the car on 459, much more than the LP.
I'm examining the sign on the lamp post, it appears blurred as to look twice its size on 458, which is interesting as the post itself does the opposite when you follow it down to the car it gets so small it basically vanishes.
A curious optic effect?

458 = Car is sharp but Lamp blurred.
459 = Car blurred but Lamp sharp.

Ed

#12 Ian Kingsbury

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 05:58 PM


The angle between the limo and camera appears to change drastically between 458 and 459 ,It maybe an effect of the camera, unless Greer veered to the right massively?.

I am seeing a drastic angle change in the limo between 458 and 459 can anybody else see it ?.Or is it a camera anomaly?.


Hey Ian,

There is a bit more motion blur to the car on 459, much more than the LP.
I'm examining the sign on the lamp post, it appears blurred as to look twice its size on 458, which is interesting as the post itself does the opposite when you follow it down to the car it gets so small it basically vanishes.
A curious optic effect?

458 = Car is sharp but Lamp blurred.
459 = Car blurred but Lamp sharp.

Ed



Thanks Ed.

I am positive that someone on the forum has found this before I will just have to look through the old threads.

Ian

#13 Ed LeDoux

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 06:12 PM

You know it does sound familiar now you mention it...or it could just be my 'Vu Jade'
(stuff that's never happened before but I know it)
Opposite of Deja Vu.

#14 Daniel Meyer

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 11:29 PM



The angle between the limo and camera appears to change drastically between 458 and 459 ,It maybe an effect of the camera, unless Greer veered to the right massively?.

I am seeing a drastic angle change in the limo between 458 and 459 can anybody else see it ?.Or is it a camera anomaly?.


Hey Ian,

There is a bit more motion blur to the car on 459, much more than the LP.
I'm examining the sign on the lamp post, it appears blurred as to look twice its size on 458, which is interesting as the post itself does the opposite when you follow it down to the car it gets so small it basically vanishes.
A curious optic effect?

458 = Car is sharp but Lamp blurred.
459 = Car blurred but Lamp sharp.

Ed



Thanks Ed.

I am positive that someone on the forum has found this before I will just have to look through the old threads.

Ian



I haven't come upon earlier discussion of it here yet. That's why I brought it up as a separate topic.

Jack White mentions it on a presentation on alteration of the Z film available on YouTube, but just briefly as if it was hardly worth mentioning, unlike other points he treats at length and in detail. To me, however, it seems at least as bizarre as anything in the film.

#15 Daniel Meyer

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 01:10 AM

Frames 456 through 459 of the Zapruder film look to me to show something astonishing.

http://www.jfkassass...ramesviewer.php Zapruder film viewer

Look at that lamp post towards the rear of the limo. It looks like the bottom part leaps from being anchored on the near side of the street in 457 to the far side in 458 and back again in 459.

Well, if that really happened, the Zapruder film would have captured something even more astonishing than the assassination of a President!

So... What's going on here?

Do all known prints show this?

If this is some type of optical illusion, what is the phenomenon, and can people give other examples of films where this can be seen?

(I request replies addressing what is seen in this particular segment of the film, rather than broader arguments on the authenticity/lack of authenticity of the film, thank you.)



Since Zapruder anomalies are being discussed on other topic threads, I'm going to try bringing this up one more time.

Non-alterationists: If this is unaltered footage, what is the innocent explanation? Can you point out any other examples of the same phenomenon seen in any other non-assassination related unedited films?

Alterationists: Do you think this is an artifact of the film being messed with? If not, what is it? If it is, why is this largely neglected, when it would seem to be an excellent example to point out to non experts? One doesn't have to be familiar with the minutia of witness testimony, or even know who Clint Hill or Mary Moorman are, to know that lamp posts are not in the habit of jumping from one side of the street to the other then back again!




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