David Josephs Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Okay Greg... You keep offering CIA and FBI documents that are presented as "this was told to me by" and then presented as FACT thru the HSCA and WCR.... On the other hand you have Armstrong putting words into people's mouths in much the same way... Not entirely sure who is being either more devious or more genuine... Your arguments are valid. Sadly, even after studying Armstrong's work, visualzing the timelines and really understanding the minutia is an ongoing process for me, one that I am working on as best I can. btw - as YOU are the one helping me to see the "other" side of this.. I am inclined to take an even closer and more studied look at the info.... so thanks..... I do not see where I am "but what about" anything, rather I'm taking what you are saying about specific people and locations, "bad memories, possibly mistaken, etc..." and trying to provide the substantiation for their statements and an explanation regarding your rebuttals. I believe I too go to the nth degree to provide the documentation and reasoning behind my posts... in most every area and with most everyone Of course Armstrong could be wrong... At the same time he could be right... and before I chuck it all away - even WITH your excellent points - I'd like to do a bit more work. So, no more to bother you.... I need to construct a concurrent timeline based on the book and documents and see for myself... and btw, thanks for your nth degree... I've learned more from you and a small handful of others here than I could anywhere else - and it's much appreciated. DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 Okay Greg...You keep offering CIA and FBI documents that are presented as "this was told to me by" and then presented as FACT thru the HSCA and WCR.... On the other hand you have Armstrong putting words into people's mouths in much the same way... The Taiwan issue has nothing to do with "this was told to me by" or anyone's memory. Whether it was Armstrong or someone else who came up with this doozy, it was based on a misreading of the same documentation I used. Newspaper accounts of riots in Fort Worth in 1956 (instead of 1958 as the theory would require) have nothing to with "this was told to me by" or any reports published by the HSCA or WC. Please don't miss-characterize what is being presented by claiming CIA and FBI reports are all I'm using. Not entirely sure who is being either more devious or more genuine... Your arguments are valid. David, either my arguments are valid, or I'm being devious. Can't have it both ways. Just remember though, I'm not the one who eschewed the 10 year old memories of 7 classmates in favor of the 40 year old memory of one teacher just because the teacher was willing to say what I wanted to hear. I'm also not the one accusing the FBI of fudging the reports of those 7 students - an accusation which is only possible because Armstrong avoided interviewing any of them. If he truly believed the FBI reports were a bunch of lies, he had the opportunity to track some of those ex-students down and get it on tape that the reports do not reflect what they actually said. Very sloppy or very devious - take your pick. Sadly, even after studying Armstrong's work, visualzing the timelines and really understanding the minutia is an ongoing process for me, one that I am working on as best I can. btw - as YOU are the one helping me to see the "other" side of this.. I am inclined to take an even closer and more studied look at the info.... so thanks..... I do not see where I am "but what about" anything, rather I'm taking what you are saying about specific people and locations, "bad memories, possibly mistaken, etc..." and trying to provide the substantiation for their statements and an explanation regarding your rebuttals. Neither you nor any of the other H & L supporters who have posted in this thread have yet conceded on even a single issue I've raised. You, like the others have simply kept trying to find something I can't rebut. I believe I too go to the nth degree to provide the documentation and reasoning behind my posts... in most every area and with most everyone You certainly have on the mail order issues. On this, you seem to have the same blind spots all the other adherents in the cult have. Of course Armstrong could be wrong... At the same time he could be right... and before I chuck it all away - even WITH your excellent points - I'd like to do a bit more work. See, this is what I mean. You are reluctant to let go even when shown the absurd contortions needed - including having not 2 - but 3 Oswalds in 1958. So, no more to bother you.... I need to construct a concurrent timeline based on the book and documents and see for myself... I'm always bothered by people acting as if mesmerized by snake oil salesmen. The real pity is - as someone smarter than me put it - with the evidence collected by Armstrong, he could have written the definitive book on the case. and btw, thanks for your nth degree... I've learned more from you and a small handful of others here than I could anywhere else - and it's much appreciated. Thank you. I have always tried to follow your work in other areas - and lack of time to do much reading means I have to be very selective as to whose work I follow. DJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Gaal Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) I had dinner with Palmer McBride and he said Oswald and he talked about the Sputnik launch. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Marguerite Oswald's WC testimony: "This is a picture of Lee with his marines, and it is a special, I think he was doing special work there. I am not familiar--I wasn't told that. But it is different than the other picture. Lee went to many, many a school, gentlemen. He went to the Marine Air Force Base in Biloxi, Mississippi, to schooling. He went to Jacksonville and some others. I remarked, "Your brothers were not sent from here to there like you were." Lee was in Japan, Lee was in Corregidor, Lee was in the Philippines, and Lee was in Formosa. That has not been publicly stated." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Was at Ping Tung, North Taiwan on 30 September 1958; returned to Atsugi, Japan on 5 October 1958." This is essentially what Lieutenant Charles Rhodes said in Epstein's "Legend: The Secret World of Lee Harvey Oswald." (pages 368-370) The reason he was given for LHO's immediate departure (Rhodes places it 10/6/58) was because of a medical problem. It seems LHO had a slight case of gonorrhea, and CE 1961 places him in the Atsugi Station Hospital from 10-7 to 10-13, once again confirming Lt. Rhodes. ============= Oct 6 Marine Corps Unit Diaries #158-58 at Taiwan (Ping Tung) LHO there Oct 6 LHO examined at Atusgi Naval Station Hospital Japan Winnie pooh had a busy day and so did LHO +++++++++++++ Lieutenant Rhodes says he traveled with unit to Taiwan. Is there an 'official' interview with any marine who knew LHO in Taiwan ,Answer no. We only have Epstein/Rhodes datum. ??????????????????????????????????????? Harvey & Lee pg 197 Note: Serious problems could have developed if employees who worked with the tall, nice-looking Marguerite Oswald refused to identify the short, dumpy, heavy-set "Marguerite Oswald" imposter as their former co-worker. The FBI avoided this potential problem by following their pattern of avoiding troublesome witnesses, in this case by simply ignoring the companies who employed the real Marguerite Oswald. The FBI's knowledge of two Marguerite Oswalds may explain why not a single one of her federal income tax returns from 1956-1962 has ever been released, are marked "referred....postponed in full," and remain unavailable to researchers 40 years after the assassination. Curiously, and without explanation, the names of John Smith and Minnie Smith appear in the JFK collection at the National Archives. But the only items listed for either person are federal income tax returns which are marked "referred....postponed in full". These are the same years as the returns which are marked "referred....postponed in full" for Marguerite Oswald. Unlike Marguerite Oswald, the names of John and Minnie Smith cannot be found anywhere else in the realm of the Kennedy assassination- not in the National Archives files, the Warren Commission documents, HSCA files, nor anywhere. This suggests the possibility that "John Smith" and "Minnie Smith" are psuedonyms which were used to file federal income tax returns for the real Lee Oswald and his tall, nice-looking mother, Marguerite. Otherwise, who are these people and what possible relevance do they or their tax returns have to the assassination of President Kennedy? When the ARRB was created in 1992 federal income tax returns were specifically exempted from public disclosure. Why? Because the release of the Oswald's tax returns, if they are true unaltered copies of original documents, could expose the dual identities of Lee and Marguerite Oswald. Dual identities would implicate the CIA in the assassination of President Kennedy and thereby indict elements of the government in both the assassination and it's cover-up. +++++++++++++++++++++++++ John Armstrong - Linda Faircloth Interview Linda Faircloth - current President of the Pfisterer Dental Laboratory in New Orleans. She spoke with owners and employees who remembered that (Harvey) Oswald worked at Pfisterer in 1957-58 (not in 1956 as reported by the WC). Palmer McBride, co-worker and friend of Oswald, was with him the day that Sputnik was launched by the Russians (Oct 4, 1957-see WC #1386). McBride took Oswald to several meetings of the New Orleans Amateur Astronomy association in early 1958, where he was remembered by Walter Gehrke, William Wulf, James Vance, and others. McBride visited Oswald and his short, heavy-set mother at their apartment in the Hotel Senator, across the street from the dental lab. He and Oswald attended the Boris Godounov in NO, which played only on Oct 10 and Oct 12, 1957. During this time tall, husky Lee Oswald was in the Marines in Japan, while his tall, nice looking mother worked (and was photographed) at Pauls Shoe Store in Ft. Worth ############################### THOUGHT EXPERIMENT Marguerite Oswald didnt want to be a mother. At 171/2 she worked as a receptionist for a United Fruit Company connected law firm. United Fruit had deep ties with ONI. Getting rid of her children was a legal problem. Thus as a woman of small means she contacted her old work place to get free legal info. to rid herself of mother obligations. From ONI to the CIA LHO went. Its really simple. Edited August 24, 2012 by Steven Gaal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted August 25, 2012 Author Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) Steve, with all due respect, you have proved my point when I said 'Neither you nor any of the other H & L supporters who have posted in this thread have yet conceded on even a single issue I've raised. You, like the others have simply kept trying to find something I can't rebut.' I had dinner with Palmer McBride and he said Oswald and he talked about the Sputnik launch. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ This is also the dude who claimed Oswald worked with him 1958 and later that year moved to Ft Worth and wrote back to him about riots. And once again, McBride is simply confused. Throughout 1956, the American press was full of stories about the Soviet space program. Some examples. Soviet Race For 'Moon' Spurs US Pay-Per-View - Christian Science Monitor - May 4, 1956 According to reports , Soviet space . under the direction of t;ommission . on Travel. Some of the Soviet Union's top natural scientists are believed to be ... SOVIET SPACE SHIP IN '56 ENVISIONED; London Red Paper... $3.95 - New York Times - Jan 3, 1956 The Communist newspaper Daily Worker reported in a Moscow dispatch today that the Soviet Union might be ready to launch a space satellite this year. ... Twinkle On, Little Star, Unsoviet Red From Afar $3.95 - New York Times - Mar 16, 1956 BURLINGTON, NC, March 15 (UP)-A suspected "Soviet space satellite," the subject of a top-secret Air Force study, turned out today to be a star in good ... So I put it to you, Steve, that McBride, with his proven record of conflating time and events, has recalled talking to Oswald about the Soviet space program and years later, assumed it must have been about Sputnik. I also remind you that persisting with this is ludicrous when it has been pointed out that it requires, not one - but three Oswalds. One in NO, then Ft Worth, one at Atsugi and one in Taiwan. How can you not understand that? Marguerite Oswald's WC testimony: "This is a picture of Lee with his marines, and it is a special, I think he was doing special work there. I am not familiar--I wasn't told that. But it is different than the other picture. Lee went to many, many a school, gentlemen. He went to the Marine Air Force Base in Biloxi, Mississippi, to schooling. He went to Jacksonville and some others. I remarked, "Your brothers were not sent from here to there like you were." Lee was in Japan, Lee was in Corregidor, Lee was in the Philippines, and Lee was in Formosa. That has not been publicly stated." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Was at Ping Tung, North Taiwan on 30 September 1958; returned to Atsugi, Japan on 5 October 1958." This is essentially what Lieutenant Charles Rhodes said in Epstein's "Legend: The Secret World of Lee Harvey Oswald." (pages 368-370) The reason he was given for LHO's immediate departure (Rhodes places it 10/6/58) was because of a medical problem. It seems LHO had a slight case of gonorrhea, and CE 1961 places him in the Atsugi Station Hospital from 10-7 to 10-13, once again confirming Lt. Rhodes. ============= Oct 6 Marine Corps Unit Diaries #158-58 at Taiwan (Ping Tung) LHO there Oct 6 LHO examined at Atusgi Naval Station Hospital Japan Winnie pooh had a busy day and so did LHO +++++++++++++ Lieutenant Rhodes says he traveled with unit to Taiwan. Is there an 'official' interview with any marine who knew LHO in Taiwan ,Answer no. We only have Epstein/Rhodes datum. ??????????????????????????????????????? ? is right. Are you debating with yourself above? It is possible LHO sailed to Taiwan and was very quickly airlifted back for medical treatment. Whether he went or not, to try and use the unit diary to bolster your cockamamie theory is more lunacy. Not only are you requiring 3 Oswald's in total - you have two of them in the same Marine unit. Harvey & Lee pg 197 Note: Serious problems could have developed if employees who worked with the tall, nice-looking Marguerite Oswald refused to identify the short, dumpy, heavy-set "Marguerite Oswald" imposter as their former co-worker. The FBI avoided this potential problem by following their pattern of avoiding troublesome witnesses, in this case by simply ignoring the companies who employed the real Marguerite Oswald. Gee, I thought my exchanges with David over the school records established that the FBI's "usual pattern" was to NOT avoid troublesome witnesses, but to merely lie in their reports about what they said. Or have you forgotten that 7 ex-students all disagreed with Oswald's former teacher about the time period Oswald attended Beauregard, and how David insinuated that the FBI must have lied? The FBI's knowledge of two Marguerite Oswalds may explain why not a single one of her federal income tax returns from 1956-1962 has ever been released, are marked "referred....postponed in full," and remain unavailable to researchers 40 years after the assassination. When was the last time anyone tried? A lot of "postponed" records stay postponed only because no one requests to see them, so the status does not get reviewed. Curiously, and without explanation, the names of John Smith and Minnie Smith appear in the JFK collection at the National Archives. But the only items listed for either person are federal income tax returns which are marked "referred....postponed in full". These are the same years as the returns which are marked "referred....postponed in full" for Marguerite Oswald. Unlike Marguerite Oswald, the names of John and Minnie Smith cannot be found anywhere else in the realm of the Kennedy assassination- not in the National Archives files, the Warren Commission documents, HSCA files, nor anywhere. This suggests the possibility that "John Smith" and "Minnie Smith" are psuedonyms which were used to file federal income tax returns for the real Lee Oswald and his tall, nice-looking mother, Marguerite. Otherwise, who are these people and what possible relevance do they or their tax returns have to the assassination of President Kennedy? This is just more rabid speculation. They were not pseudonyms. His full name was John Ray Smith and he was born Jan 9, 1901. Their address was 6731 Norway, Dallas - a 6 bedroom, 6 bathroom home. When the ARRB was created in 1992 federal income tax returns were specifically exempted from public disclosure. Why? Because the release of the Oswald's tax returns, if they are true unaltered copies of original documents, could expose the dual identities of Lee and Marguerite Oswald. Dual identities would implicate the CIA in the assassination of President Kennedy and thereby indict elements of the government in both the assassination and it's cover-up. Armstrong hopes like Hell they will never be released.He would have to rely on the fallback position that the documents have been altered or are completely phone. +++++++++++++++++++++++++ John Armstrong - Linda Faircloth Interview Linda Faircloth - current President of the Pfisterer Dental Laboratory in New Orleans. She spoke with owners and employees who remembered that (Harvey) Oswald worked at Pfisterer in 1957-58 (not in 1956 as reported by the WC). Palmer McBride, co-worker and friend of Oswald, was with him the day that Sputnik was launched by the Russians (Oct 4, 1957-see WC #1386). McBride took Oswald to several meetings of the New Orleans Amateur Astronomy association in early 1958, where he was remembered by Walter Gehrke, William Wulf, James Vance, and others. McBride visited Oswald and his short, heavy-set mother at their apartment in the Hotel Senator, across the street from the dental lab. He and Oswald attended the Boris Godounov in NO, which played only on Oct 10 and Oct 12, 1957. During this time tall, husky Lee Oswald was in the Marines in Japan, while his tall, nice looking mother worked (and was photographed) at Pauls Shoe Store in Ft. Worth Oswald worked there in 1956. But it's just not possible to argue about this sensibly. You guys will just keep dredging up more dreck while ignoring the fact I've already destroyed the thesis. ############################### THOUGHT EXPERIMENT Marguerite Oswald didnt want to be a mother. At 171/2 she worked as a receptionist for a United Fruit Company connected law firm. United Fruit had deep ties with ONI. Getting rid of her children was a legal problem. Thus as a woman of small means she contacted her old work place to get free legal info. to rid herself of mother obligations. From ONI to the CIA LHO went. Its really simple. Edited August 25, 2012 by Greg Parker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Gaal Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 I also remind you that persisting with this is ludicrous when it has been pointed out that it requires, not one - but three Oswalds. One in NO, then Ft Worth, one at Atsugi and one in Taiwan. How can you not understand that? // END Parker ==================================================== NO/Ft Worth can just be a well traveled intell operative. Just like a PARKER singular LHO can travel from Taiwan to Japan , "very quickly airlifted". ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Kudlaty This friend of Jack White from their old college days claimed he was ordered to get Oswald's school records from the school and give them to the FBI. Yet in every single other case, school records were kept, and could only be obtained from, the School District Board. //end Parker +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ School records ?? I am a LA Calif person. Yes the School District Board had my records as did my School. Only the School District Board could "release" the records. Where did you think the School District Board got the records a bit at a time ?? Its like you accepted some bad info. Just use common sense. I believe Kudlaty's comments below. Seems like common sense to me. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Why are John Ray Smith's Tax returns at all in the JFK collection ???????????? ,Gaal John Armstrong - Frank Kudlaty Interview Part 1 & 2 ========= ++++++++++++ David Josephs posting 8/21/12 #258673 Finally... the assisstant pricipal of STRIPLING JR HIGH As I continued to locate and talk with former Stripling teachers, many suggested that I call "Frank Kudlaty," the former assistant principal at Stripling. I telephoned Mr. Kudlaty, introduced myself as a JFK researcher, and asked if he knew whether or not "Lee Harvey Oswald" had attended Stripling. Without hesitation Frank said, "Yes, he attended Stripling." Somewhat surprised I asked, "How do you know that." Frank replied, "Because I gave his Stripling records to the FBI."Frank explained, during a videotaped interview, that before the FBI agents arrived at Stripling on Saturday morning (November 23), he briefly reviewed Oswald's school file. He explained that when a student enrolled in a new school, in this case at Stripling, the previous school routinely sent copies of his school transcripts. Occasionally, if the records were not sent, the new school would write and request copies of the school records from the previous school. Frank said that when he examined Oswald's file he saw neither copies of school transcripts from a previous school nor a letter from Stripling requesting such records. Frank said this was very unusual, as Oswald must have attended school prior to his attendance at Stripling, yet there were no records . ==================== ############################### THOUGHT EXPERIMENT Marguerite Oswald didnt want to be a mother. At 171/2 she worked as a receptionist for a United Fruit Company connected law firm. United Fruit had deep ties with ONI. Getting rid of her children was a legal problem. Thus as a woman of small means she contacted her old work place to get free legal info. to rid herself of mother obligations. From ONI to the CIA LHO went. Its really simple. +++++++++++++++ CASE CLOSED ??? Forged documents.......because ....??? http://www.mindserpent.com/American_History/books/Armstrong/Forged/Forged_docs.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Howard Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) I don't know how much it will clarify the issue, if at all. But the July/August 2008 issue of ancestry.com featured an article entitled "When John Wayne Met Lee Harvey." See http://books.google....try.com&f=false Or, if the URL doesen't link, simply go to google books and enter John Wayne met Lee Harvey.... It is actually entitled Juxtaposition by Coleen Fitzpatrick, PH.D If your thinking of the photograph taken of the two which appeared in Edward Jay Epstein's book, Legend: The Secret World of Lee Harvey Oswald [see photo] http://www.chimpomat...hn-wayne-photo/ that is the picture. The article attempts to determine the exact date the photo was taken, their conclusion was that it was taken between "about 15 January and 7 March 1958 the date Oswald's Marine company departed on the LST Wexford County for its return trip to January." There is also another JFK related article in the same issue about the death of the JFK Honor Guard who died in 1963 Thomas F. Reid, entitled Where Is The Honor Guard? By Megan Smolenyak. As a final note, one disconcerting fact about the whole Harvey and Lee matter is that Mrs Jack Tippit of Westport, Connecticut, attested that she knew Oswald's father and uncle who were Hungarian and Communists - pps 66-67 Harvey and Lee. For me, that was always an ominous aspect of the whole story, because in the final analysis, you have the same Commie did it conclusion that all of the other Cuban, Soviet allegations that have been promoted over the last 49 odd years, with just a little tweaking. I knew a long time ago, I would never discover all the answers regarding the unresolved questions of the assassination, if I spent years researching "whether John Armstrong was right or wrong." In that regard, I am very glad that Greg undertook the work he has done, as usual here on the Forum, no good deed goes unpunished, so I am glad to know Greg knows the drill...... Edited August 25, 2012 by Robert Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom Scully Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) .............. I knew a long time ago, I would never discover all the answers regarding the unresolved questions of the assassination, if I spent years researching "whether John Armstrong was right or wrong." In that regard, I am very glad that Greg undertook the work he has done, as usual here on the Forum, no good deed goes unpunished, so I am glad to know Greg knows the drill...... Cops fired 16 shots, taking down the cold-blooded killer and wounding 9 others. Yup.... keep "the googling" to a minimum, the posts short, optimally post a short descriptive sentence and an image or animated gif, and we'll all get along fine. Nine out of ten satisfied customers can never be wrong.... Mary's Mosaic: The CIA Conspiracy to Murder John F. Kennedy, Mary Pinchot Meyer, and Their Vision for World Peace 71 Reviews 5 star: (53) Once Upon a Secret: My Affair with President John F. Kennedy and Its Aftermath 227 Reviews 5 star: (101) 4 star: (46) Edited August 25, 2012 by Tom Scully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted August 26, 2012 Author Share Posted August 26, 2012 (edited) I also remind you that persisting with this is ludicrous when it has been pointed out that it requires, not one - but three Oswalds. One in NO, then Ft Worth, one at Atsugi and one in Taiwan. How can you not understand that? // END Parker ==================================================== NO/Ft Worth can just be a well traveled intell operative. Just like a PARKER singular LHO can travel from Taiwan to Japan , "very quickly airlifted". Steve, you HAVE to say that. You have no recourse, but it is palpable nonsense. If you want to claim he was being airlifted all over the place, it is up to you to explain what the purpose was - otherwise it just looks like you're clutching at straws. "If" Oswald went to Taiwan, he was airlifted back pretty quickly for medical treatment. That's not rabid speculation. It is what the records show. Could the medical treatment have been a cover for some intelligence work or training? Sure it could have. But it was just one person. If you want to make the extraordinary claim that one of your bookends was airlifted back to Ft Worth in 1958 to write a letter to McBride discussing riots that actually happened in 1956, than you need to tell me what the purpose of that was, otherwise you just sound ludicrous. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Kudlaty This friend of Jack White from their old college days claimed he was ordered to get Oswald's school records from the school and give them to the FBI. Yet in every single other case, school records were kept, and could only be obtained from, the School District Board. //end Parker +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ School records ?? I am a LA Calif person. Yes the School District Board had my records as did my School. Only the School District Board could "release" the records. Where did you think the School District Board got the records a bit at a time ?? Its like you accepted some bad info. Just use common sense. I believe Kudlaty's comments below. Seems like common sense to me. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ You fail to see the MASSIVE problems with this theory, and you're telling ME I accepted bad info???? LOL. What I said Steve, was that the investigating authorities obtained Oswald's school records from the local school boards in every single case - but with Stripling, we are expected to believe that the records were not only NOT transferred to the school board at the time, they were NEVER transferred there and were STILL at the school YEARS later. And what's more, the FBI KNEW immediately that they were still there, even though in all all other cases they knew they were at the school board offices. You believe Kudlaty? Great. My kids believe in Santa and the Tooth Fairy. But they have an excuse. They're only eight. Why are John Ray Smith's Tax returns at all in the JFK collection ???????????? ,Gaal How the freaking hell am I supposed to know???!!! The point was that Armstrong avoided trying to identify the Smiths because finding out they were real people meant he couldn't SPECULATE that they were actually the fake Oswald and the fake Marguerite. Do you think he was incapable of finding out if they were real people or not? I mean, the address given could easily have had the ownership traced. But facts are anathema to a Snake Oil Salesman. If you want me to speculate about who they were, my SPECULATION would be that they were into real estate in a big way, and possibly owned some of the residences occupied by the Oswalds and or Ruby. But if you want to know the facts, you need to request the documents and do some more digging on their background. But you won't because that would ruin your fantasies about "Harvey". John Armstrong - Frank Kudlaty Interview Part 1 & 2 ========= ++++++++++++ David Josephs posting 8/21/12 #258673 Finally... the assisstant pricipal of STRIPLING JR HIGH As I continued to locate and talk with former Stripling teachers, many suggested that I call "Frank Kudlaty," the former assistant principal at Stripling. I telephoned Mr. Kudlaty, introduced myself as a JFK researcher, and asked if he knew whether or not "Lee Harvey Oswald" had attended Stripling. Without hesitation Frank said, "Yes, he attended Stripling." Somewhat surprised I asked, "How do you know that." Frank replied, "Because I gave his Stripling records to the FBI."Frank explained, during a videotaped interview, that before the FBI agents arrived at Stripling on Saturday morning (November 23), he briefly reviewed Oswald's school file. He explained that when a student enrolled in a new school, in this case at Stripling, the previous school routinely sent copies of his school transcripts. Occasionally, if the records were not sent, the new school would write and request copies of the school records from the previous school. Frank said that when he examined Oswald's file he saw neither copies of school transcripts from a previous school nor a letter from Stripling requesting such records. Frank said this was very unusual, as Oswald must have attended school prior to his attendance at Stripling, yet there were no records . ==================== ############################### THOUGHT EXPERIMENT Marguerite Oswald didnt want to be a mother. At 171/2 she worked as a receptionist for a United Fruit Company connected law firm. United Fruit had deep ties with ONI. Getting rid of her children was a legal problem. Thus as a woman of small means she contacted her old work place to get free legal info. to rid herself of mother obligations. From ONI to the CIA LHO went. Its really simple. +++++++++++++++ CASE CLOSED ??? Forged documents.......because ....??? http://www.mindserpe...Forged_docs.htm Forged? Well, they have to be, don't they? After all, they don't comport with the infallible memory of McBribe! Edited August 26, 2012 by Greg Parker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted August 26, 2012 Author Share Posted August 26, 2012 (edited) I don't know how much it will clarify the issue, if at all. But the July/August 2008 issue of ancestry.com featured an article entitled "When John Wayne Met Lee Harvey." See http://books.google....try.com&f=false Or, if the URL doesen't link, simply go to google books and enter John Wayne met Lee Harvey.... It is actually entitled Juxtaposition by Coleen Fitzpatrick, PH.D If your thinking of the photograph taken of the two which appeared in Edward Jay Epstein's book, Legend: The Secret World of Lee Harvey Oswald [see photo] http://www.chimpomat...hn-wayne-photo/ that is the picture. The article attempts to determine the exact date the photo was taken, their conclusion was that it was taken between "about 15 January and 7 March 1958 the date Oswald's Marine company departed on the LST Wexford County for its return trip to January." There is also another JFK related article in the same issue about the death of the JFK Honor Guard who died in 1963 Thomas F. Reid, entitled Where Is The Honor Guard? By Megan Smolenyak. As a final note, one disconcerting fact about the whole Harvey and Lee matter is that Mrs Jack Tippit of Westport, Connecticut, attested that she knew Oswald's father and uncle who were Hungarian and Communists - pps 66-67 Harvey and Lee. For me, that was always an ominous aspect of the whole story, because in the final analysis, you have the same Commie did it conclusion that all of the other Cuban, Soviet allegations that have been promoted over the last 49 odd years, with just a little tweaking. I knew a long time ago, I would never discover all the answers regarding the unresolved questions of the assassination, if I spent years researching "whether John Armstrong was right or wrong." In that regard, I am very glad that Greg undertook the work he has done, as usual here on the Forum, no good deed goes unpunished, so I am glad to know Greg knows the drill...... Robert, I didn't start this war. The supporters of this crap did by trying to take over every Oswald thread I started. They picked the wrong person to go to war with. At least Steve and David have had the balls to come here and face the music. Others won't because they know I'm right and they don't want to admit it. Re Mrs Jack Tippit: Unlike Armstrong, I was able to identify the two described as "father" and "uncle". Since they were not related, I tend to think the caller had been drinking too much of the cooking sherry. But I don't entirely dismiss her (though I DO dismiss what Armstrong tried to make of it)/ I explain here http://reopenkennedy...ppit-phone-call why. (Some links in the above piece won't work unless logged in) Edited August 26, 2012 by Greg Parker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Gaal Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 (edited) Forged? Well, they have to be, don't they? After all, they don't comport with the infallible memory of McBribe ! //end PARKER ============================ A nonresponsive emotional outburst by Parker to the data presented.Which had a emoticon throwing tomato ending said outburst. ============================ You fail to see the MASSIVE problems with this theory, and you're telling ME I accepted bad info???? LOL. What I said Steve, was that the investigating authorities obtained Oswald's school records from the local school boards in every single case - but with Stripling, we are expected to believe that the records were not only NOT transferred to the school board at the time, they were NEVER transferred there and were STILL at the school YEARS later. And what's more, the FBI KNEW immediately that they were still there, even though in all all other cases they knew they were at the school board offices. You believe Kudlaty? Great. My kids believe in Santa and the Tooth Fairy. But they have an excuse. They're only eight. // end Parker ++++++++++++++++ The word "also" is on Google, give it a try. You mistate what the two tapes say. Some of LHO records were at the School and some were not. Investigating authorities could also get records from said schools. Were the records = not also = at said schools besides school board ??? AS I contended from what I know of my records. You say,"FBI KNEW immediately". I say IMHO Alan H. Belmont of Division 5 was briefed ASAP by CIA of the two Oswald matter. (CIA to Belmont pssst..tell the Director as little as possible) Belmont joined Allen Dulles at the Hoover Institute in 1965 . In 1963 Dulles/Scaife were on the Board of Directors of the Hoover Institute. . see also http://educationforu...?showtopic=7588 http://american_alma....com/scaife.htm Dont have the 63 Board on my files,but did send to William Weston EMAIL of Dulles/Scaife on 63 Hoover Board. He may still have it. Sitting on its board of directors in 1963, when the Hoover Institution was searching for a Republican candidate to succeed the newly assassinated John F. Kennedy, was none other than RICHARD MELLON SCAIFE. http://www.umsl.edu/~thomaskp/plwordr.htm EDIT ADDITIONAL INFO ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Considering that the FED COURT Order to integrate all Fort Worth Schools occured in 1961. Additional datum of "kill Eisenhower" hyperbole of Harvey. I suggest that any minor anti-integration protest of 1958 could be expanded by the hardcore LEFTY Harvey as ,'race riots',since the memory of the large scale problems of 1956 were still on the minds of Fort Worthians.ERROR in letter from Harvey/not McBride. ############################### THOUGHT EXPERIMENT Marguerite Oswald didnt want to be a mother. At 171/2 she worked as a receptionist for a United Fruit Company connected law firm. United Fruit had deep ties with ONI. Getting rid of her children was a legal problem. Thus as a woman of small means she contacted her old work place to get free legal info. to rid herself of mother obligations. From ONI to the CIA LHO went. Its really simple. EDIT ON ADDED INFO RE SCAIFE Edited August 26, 2012 by Steven Gaal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted August 26, 2012 Author Share Posted August 26, 2012 Forged? Well, they have to be, don't they? After all, they don't comport with the infallible memory of McBribe ! //end PARKER ============================ A nonresponsive emotional outburst by Parker to the data presented.Which had a emoticon throwing tomato ending said outburst. So now you can tell emotional states remotely? You and your fellow cultists are the last people who should be calling anyone out for a "non-response" since none of you have been able to respond to most of what I have posted. You just move on to dumping the next truck load of dung. Fact is, I had already debunked this when I posted excerpts from various 1956 stories concerning Soviet success in space. This is from your link: "McBride's recollection that Oswald and he discussed "Russian successes" in space surely means they surely talked at least after the launch of the first Russian space success: Sputnik on October 4, 1957." Recalls discussing with Oswald, "Russian successes" - ergo those discussions must have centered around Sputnik in October, 1957. This is called an ASSUMPTION. It's in google. You might give it a try and look it up. But as I have shown - it was a wrong assumption. See post 91 for examples of stories from '56 ABOUT SOVIET SUCCESS IN SPACE - the very subject McBride said he and Oswald discussed. So once again... you are forced to say the records are forged instead of admitting the bleeding obvious. McBride had a faulty memory with dates and often conflated/merged events. You have been hung out to dry here, Steve, by your fellow cult members. I'd be pissed at them if I were. It's cowardly. They know I'm right. ============================ You fail to see the MASSIVE problems with this theory, and you're telling ME I accepted bad info???? LOL. What I said Steve, was that the investigating authorities obtained Oswald's school records from the local school boards in every single case - but with Stripling, we are expected to believe that the records were not only NOT transferred to the school board at the time, they were NEVER transferred there and were STILL at the school YEARS later. And what's more, the FBI KNEW immediately that they were still there, even though in all all other cases they knew they were at the school board offices. You believe Kudlaty? Great. My kids believe in Santa and the Tooth Fairy. But they have an excuse. They're only eight. // end Parker ++++++++++++++++ The word "also" is on Google, give it a try. You mistate what the two tapes say. Some of LHO records were at the School and some were not. Investigating authorities could also get records from said schools. Were the records = not also = at said schools besides school board ??? AS I contended from what I know of my records. You say,"FBI KNEW immediately". I say IMHO Alan H. Belmont of Division 5 was briefed ASAP by CIA of the two Oswald matter. (CIA to Belmont pssst..tell the Director as little as possible) Belmont joined Allen Dulles at the Hoover Institute in 1965 . In 1963 Dulles/Scaife were on the Board of Directors of the Hoover Institute. . see also http://educationforu...?showtopic=7588 http://american_alma....com/scaife.htm Dont have the 63 Board on my files,but did send to William Weston EMAIL of Dulles/Scaife on 63 Hoover Board. He may still have it. Even if I could believe what you say about how and where records are stored, which I don't, it doesn't matter about "also". In no other case did the FBI go directly to a school for the records. But it has to be this way here otherwise Jack White's old friend has no yarn to spin. And your speculation about Belmont is hardly a substitute for evidence. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Considering that the FED COURT Order to integrate all Fort Worth Schools occured in 1961. Additional datum of "kill Eisenhower" hyperbole of Harvey. I suggest that any minor anti-integration protest of 1958 could be expanded by the hardcore LEFTY Harvey as ,'race riots',since the memory of the large scale problems of 1956 were still on the minds of Fort Worthians.ERROR in letter from Harvey/not McBride. LOL. Too funny for words. You're rebuilding the original case using imagined newspaper stories of possible (as opposed to actually proven) minor anti-integration demonstrations and you've flown the imaginary "Harvey" back from Japan (or Taiwan) on some unknown intel mission involving allowing his "Lefty" side to inflate those imagined stories into full scale riots and write a letter about them to McBride. ############################### THOUGHT EXPERIMENT Marguerite Oswald didnt want to be a mother. At 171/2 she worked as a receptionist for a United Fruit Company connected law firm. United Fruit had deep ties with ONI. Getting rid of her children was a legal problem. Thus as a woman of small means she contacted her old work place to get free legal info. to rid herself of mother obligations. From ONI to the CIA LHO went. Its really simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted August 26, 2012 Author Share Posted August 26, 2012 He and Oswald attended the Boris Godounov in NO, which played only on Oct 10 and Oct 12, 1957. Okay. I've had a chance to look into this. Here is the claim in full: John also contacted the New Orleans Historical Society to look up when a specific opera was performed in New Orleans, Boris Godunov. Palmer McBride told him he and Lee went to go see it. John found out it was performed October 9-12, 1957. That was it for the whole decade of the '50's. It was not performed again in New Orleans during the '50's. http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_issues/12th_Issue/fredonia2.html Here is another version of the above: McBride and Oswald also listened to and discussed classical music at each other's homes. McBride and Oswald attended the opera *Boris Gudenov* in New Orleans; for Palmer McBride the opera was a very memorable event, and he recalled how much he and Oswald enjoyed it. To determine when *Boris Gudenov* was performed, Armstrong obtained a brochure from the New Orleans Historical Collection. Boris Gudenov played only two days in New Orleans during the entire decade of the 1950s: October 10 and October 12, 1958. One Lee Harvey Oswald was in New Orleans while the other was serving in the Marines in Japan. http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/03/JA/DR/.k-dr.htmlSo a single brochure - not from the New Orleans Opera Company - but from the New Orleans Historical Society is the sole source for the claim that this particular opera was only performed on two days (Oct 10 and 12, 1957) during the whole off the 1950s in New Orleans... Yet here is an Opera buff talking about a performance on Oct 15 , 1957. Dear group, I am looking for this BORIS GODUNOV performance:New Orleans 15/10/57 Christoff, Nadell, Ruhl, Sze, Davidson, Theyard - Cellini. I have a fantastic list for trading with huge rarities that cannot be found in any other list. Best Regards, thanks for your help in advance and Happy new year, Dimitris. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OPERA-SELL/message/2918 Any notion that was not performed in 1956 in NO is gone without far more subtstantial and FACTUAL evidence. The brochure was neither of those things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Gaal Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 (edited) Quote Dear group, I am looking for this BORIS GODUNOV performance: New Orleans 15/10/57 Christoff, Nadell, Ruhl, Sze, Davidson, Theyard - Cellini. I have a fantastic list for trading with huge rarities that cannot be found in any other list. Best Regards, thanks for your help in advance and Happy new year, Dimitris. http://groups.yahoo....LL/message/2918 ========================== (CUT AND PASTE PARKER # 99 post above,GAAL) (What I found at link below ????????? ,Gaal) Hi All: I'm looking for the complete cast info for the following performances. MEISTERSINGER - April 16, 1990 - Covent Garden - Weikle, Lott, Heppner SUSANNAH - October 3, 1993 - Chicago - Fleming Ramey FORZA - March 12, 1953 - New Orleans - Milanov, Del Monaco Any help would be appreciated. TIA!!! Best, Mark +++++++++++++++++++++++ http://groups.yahoo....LL/message/2918 YOUR LINK DOESNT LOOK LIKE WHAT I FOUND AND POSTED ABOVE ?????????????? Edited August 26, 2012 by Steven Gaal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Parker Posted August 26, 2012 Author Share Posted August 26, 2012 (edited) No need to yell. I'm not deaf. Try this one. The last number somehow got cut off before. http://groups.yahoo....L/message/29180 Edited August 26, 2012 by Greg Parker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Gaal Posted August 26, 2012 Share Posted August 26, 2012 (edited) Cult is pejorative, tomato thrower please stop. ########### The buff or the brochure could be off,just a canceled performance. If McBride did go to the Opera with Harvey ,well that doesnt help your case. As to the matter of Stripling ,why it was handled differently ??? Gee self evident to me ?? FBI probably did get any Stripling records that were at Board.( FBI ,keep QUITE ABOUT THIS Stripling to the Board,National Security). BUT THEY HAD TO ALSO (also, a terrible word for some) go to the school to get any records there. LHO never went there officially. YUP MANY PROBLEMS WITH HIS RECORDS....(ARMSTRONG BELOW) The Warren Commission records tell us Oswald first entered Trinity Evangelical School in the Bronx in September, 1952, many miles from his residence in Manhattan. When asked for copies of Oswald's school records, the Trinity School allegedly told the FBI they did not maintain records until 1957. This is nonsense. Who ever heard of a school that did not maintain records? If the school did not maintain records, how were the dates of his attendance at Trinity obtained? How did the FBI know he even attended Trinity? And why would 12 year-old Oswald attend junior high in the Bronx instead of Manhattan. ========...... But the FBI had Oswald's New York and New Orleans junior high school records. This 1955 graduation photo from Beauregard was in their files within hours. Oswald's attendance at Stripling Junior High in Fort Worth at the same time created a big problem. Their information about Stripling probably came from FBI Agent John Fain. From 1952 thru 1963 Fain lived at 1727 Thomas Place--five blocks from the Oswalds. It was Fain's April, 1960 interview with Marguerite Oswald that prompted Hoover to notify the State Department that "an impostor may be using Oswald's birth certificate". Hoover knew about two Oswalds in 1960 and was again aware of two Oswalds in 1961 when a Lee Oswald tried to buy trucks to send to Cuba from Bolton Ford in New Orleans (Harvey Oswald was in Russia at this time). Oswald's 1954 attendance at Stripling Junior High in Fort Worth was unexplainable. So, the day after the assassination, Saturday, at 8 o'clock in the morning, the FBI went to Stripling to pick up Oswald's junior high school records. Two FBI agents were met by Mr. Frank Kudlaty, assistant principal of Stripling. Frank looked through Oswald's file and noted Oswald had attended "not quite a semester" in the 9th grade. While Marguerite worked at Washer Brothers in the fall of 1954, Harvey attended Stripling and created the 9th grade record that Mr. Kudlaty gave to the FBI. Don't bother to look for Oswald's Stripling records in the Warren Volumes, and don't waste your time filing a Freedom of Information request with the FBI. The FBI denies any knowledge of Stripling records. Oswald's 1954 Stripling records have disappeared, but the memories of Oswald's classmates have not. Doug Gann remembered Oswald in his home room. Roy Parkin used to play touch football in Oswald's front yard and saw him in the halls of Stripling. In 1955, Bobby and Jackie Pitts lived at 2224 Thomas Place, next door to Oswald. Interestingly, Paul Gregory, Oswald's friend and Marina's interpreter in 1963 also attended Stripling Junior High in 1954 and was in the same grade as Oswald. When we understand there are two teenagers using the name Oswald, we realize each of these boys had a parent or guardian. Perhaps this is the reason we see Oswald's mother identified sometimes as Marguerite and other times as Margaret. Harvey Oswald left Fort Worth and returned to New Orleans in late 1954. His first job, at age 15, was at the Dolly Shoe Company in New Orleans. The Warren Commission tells us he worked part-time while attending Beauregard. But Louis Marzialle, the store manager, remembered Oswald working during the day at full time employment. Louis and the store owner, Maury Goodman, remembered Oswald as being a very quiet and physically small child; this is Harvey. Louis observed Oswald and was unsatisfied with his work. Three days after Easter, 1955, Louis fired Oswald after he returned from lunch. While Harvey worked at Dolly Shoe, Lee attended Beauregard in the 9th grade with Ed Voebel. Marguerite was fired from Dolly Shoe by owner Maury Goodman. Marguerite continually refused to complete insurance forms necessary to obtain employee bonding. +++++++++++++ STRIPLING MEANS TWO OSWALDS. TWO OSWALDS =GOVERNMENT PLOT. STRIPLING = GOVERNMENT PLOT,thus STRIPLING SUPPRESSED. ============= THOUGHT EXPERIMENT Hungarian very hard to learn. Hungarians learn other languages. Grandma knew six others besides her own. Subproject 65: MKULTRA: Hungarian Refugees = Harvey ############## THOUGHT EXPERIMENT Marguerite Oswald didnt want to be a mother. At 171/2 she worked as a receptionist for a United Fruit Company connected law firm. United Fruit had deep ties with ONI. Getting rid of her children was a legal problem. Thus as a woman of small means she contacted her old work place to get free legal info. to rid herself of mother obligations. From ONI to the CIA LHO went. Its really simple. = Lee Edited August 26, 2012 by Steven Gaal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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