Thomas Graves, What sort of posts & threads would you prefer to read?

[Len Colby]

[...]

If not, you might try reading my book then [sic]. You will find out who Whitney and Blackmer at least [sic]. (Sorry, I don't mention the Rambler.)

Dear Jimbo,

To which Rambler are you referring? I mean, you probably mean the one Roger Craig claimed he saw Oswald getting into, right? I mean, you have heard of Roger Craig, right?

Sincerely,

--Tommy

At 1st I thought he was joking about that, I mean Roger Craig! Might as well cite JVB, James Files and William "Tosh is dead" Plumlee.

[Thomas Graves]

[...]

If not, you might try reading my book then [sic]. You will find out who Whitney and Blackmer at least [sic]. (Sorry, I don't mention the Rambler.)

Dear Jimbo,

To which Rambler are you referring? I mean, you probably mean the one Roger Craig claimed he saw Oswald getting into, right? I mean, you have heard of Roger Craig, right?

Sincerely,

--Tommy

At 1st I thought he was joking about that, I mean Roger Craig! Might as well cite JVB, James Files and William "Tosh is dead" Plumlee.

Dear Mr. Colby,

Yeah, Roger Craig, you know, the Roger Craig who was Dallas Sheriff's Department 1960 Officer of the Year?

Regarding Tosh Plumlee, the fact that he "up and died" for a while only lends credence to what he says he experienced as an "operator," IMHO.

--Tommy

Edited December 26, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

This is why I have sworn off Colby.

If you can group Craig with those three, I mean what do you know?

Good pick there Tommy.

Dear Jimbo,

I mean, I didn't group Craig with those others, did I?

I mean, Colby did.

--Tommy

Edited December 26, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[Len Colby]

This is why I have sworn off Colby.

If you can group Craig with those three, I mean what do you know?

Good pick there Tommy.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/craig.htm

Jim of course will bitch about the source but can he rise above ad homs and debunk it?

[Guest Tom Scully]

Not to worry, Tommy.

You and I have distinctly different approaches. For instance, I cannot fathom why anyone would pursue this in an effort to

confirm that something that would matter is being handed off.:

You and I react to what the other one of us is doing with, "why bother?" I will stay out of your way. I hope you will

stop coming at me.

....................................

..........................

...............................

...............................................

http://www.maryferre...bsPageId=733406

Princeton Alumni Weekly - Volume 44 - Page 108

books.google.com/books?id=CRRbAAAAYAAJ

1943 - Full view - More editions

... he says that he lunches with Ken Fairman frequently and that he ran into Lt. Dave Blair and Lt. (j.g.) Terry Votichenko the

My interpretation of the details displayed in the two images above is that it was evidently not sufficient to sequester Marina Oswald

at Priscilla's cousin Davenport's home in Santa Fe for three weeks in Sept. - Oct., 1964. The FBI report above describes the next

phase as the dispatch of Davenport's and Priscilla's and Marina's "friend" Jerome Hastings from Santa Fe to collect the two ladies and transport them to Sedona, AZ.

I thought I had encountered enough WWII OSS and military intel connections regarding David Coit Davenport, along with a heavy dose of Rockefeller influence, but I underestimated the commitment (involvement?) of these people and the level of FBI incuriousity as to what was going on, or the blackout of the actual FBI reaction and reporting.

The PAW Princeton class of '40 snippet in the second image displayed above began on the prior page with a report of the wartime activities of classmate Ben Fuller. I happened to recall reading that portion before when I was researching the background of Ben's brother Hod Fuller, described by Peter Janney in his book, "Mary's Mosaic" as a top CIA assassin.

I've included the PAW image here because the details in it support my observation that the son of the IRS Commissioner during prohibition who advocated lining up and shooting bootleggers, Dave Blair, Jr., was interacting in London during WWII with his classmate and brother-in-law, Terry Votichenko. Those two intelligence operatives married Fredrika Tuttle and Helen DAVENPORT Tuttle, daughters of Hollywood director and reformed communist, Frank Wright Tuttle. Fredrika Tuttle Blair divorced Dave Blair before he resumed his role in military intelligence during the Korean Conflict.

It was nearly 20 years before Fredrika married again, in 1967. She became the spouse of a man she wrote that she met in Santa Fe, Jerome Allen Hastings. Hastings and his brother-in-law, Votichenko, long had associations with the Monterey, CA area, and Hasting's principal home was in Carmel by the Sea.

The outcome appears to be that everyone involved lived happily ever after, except JFK, LHO, Marina, and the American people and the victims of their country's hyper militarism and penchant for enforcing privatization of the profits and socialization of the losses.

I won't clutter this with background details, weddings, obits of Blair and his ex-wife, Fredrika and their brother-in-law Votichenko.

Dave Davenport probably introduced Fredrika to Jerome Hastings. Fredrika's sister Helen was the wife of Eisenhower's OSS leader, Votichenko and her middle name was Davenport. BTW, Dave Davenport worked out the logistics and played host on the Santa Fe leg of this sequester of Marina despite the impediment of having moved to Anchorage, AK in March, 1964 after resigning from his V.P. position at the First National Bank of Santa Fe. A PAW article on his Princeton class of '43 reported that he had survived the Anchorage earthquake after taking a position as V.P. of the new Alaska State Development Corp., and his '43 classmate, Dr. Jesse Rodman "Rod" Wilson, Jr. was Davenport's Anchorage landlord.

It almost seems cousin Dave gave himself the flexibility to play host and tour guide. He also evacuated the lower 48 in spring, '64, just as DeMohrenschildt had done almost a year earlier. Less chance of being interrupted or closely observed when you've made a demonstration of removing yourself from the local community but still come and go from there?

Copyright 2013 by Tom Scully

Someone "fed" this information, described as secret and attributed to the Arizona Republic newspaper in Phoenix, to that Phoenix

newspaper and it was distributed more widely in this AP report.:

A182pn Phoenix, Dec. 11 (AP)- Marina Oswalt', the widow of ...

jfk.hood.edu/Collection/White%20Materials/.../MNO%20077.pdf

File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View

With her, the Rppbblic ssys, are a friend, Jerome Hastings, and. Priscilla Johnson, a writer. The newspaper said the primary n'rpose of the secret visit is to.....

Posting limits here do not permit me to display the article image, but here is a link to view it quickly.:

https://lh6.googleus...ArchiveCROP.png

It was probably impossible to find any background on Jerome Hastings in December, 1964. The report did not

connect Hasting to anyone other than Priscilla Johnson, SOP since Priscilla was "out front" since she first reported

about an interview with Lee Harvey Oswald in the Soviet Union in late 1959.

It is not established that anyone outside of government monitoring agencies and David C. Davenport had awareness

of the extent of Davenport's and Hastings' connections, or even that Davenport and Hastings were friends.

Fifty years have passed and there are obits, a book, and internet information resources. Hastings did not marry Fredrika

Tuttle Blair until 1967, but I expect that he was in a relationship with her. Her sister Helen Davenport Tuttle had been married

to Terry Votichenko since the mid 1940's. Fredrika was long divorced from Votichenko's friend and Princeton '40 classmate,

David H. Blair, Jr.

New York Times - Sep 16, 1967

STAATS-EdYthe Tllllnghatt, on Friday, Sep tomboy 15. 1967, at her residence in New York Citv, Wife of

the tale J. Henry Staats. Survived by Mildred Stoats Fabri, Fredrika Tuttle Hastings. Helen Tattle

Votichenko, Marlorie Tillinghast March, CarolYn Tillinchast March and Helen Free man March. Service

private, In lieu of flowers contributions may.....

Miss Dorothy Jane Baldwin Bride of Walter Pierson, Jr.

‎New York Times - Jun 22, 1941

BlairuTuttle Miss Fredrika Bremer Tuttle, daughter of Mrs. Hendley Ross Callaway ... and Frank W. Tuttle of Hollywood, Calif., was married yesterday afternoon in St. ... to David Hunt Blair Jr., son of Mr. and Mrs. David Hunt Blair of Washington.....

HELEN TUTTLE WED TO NAVAL OFFICER; Becomes Bride of Lieut...

‎

New York Times - Sep 30, 1943

... Here Mss Helen Davenport Tuttle, daughter of Mrs. Hendley Ross Callaway of this city and of Frank Turtle of Hollywood, Calif., was married yesterday afternoon to Lieut. Taras Alexander Votichenko, USNR, in the home of her mother and .....Loring Pickering, USA, of San Francisco, was best man for Lieutenant Voti! chenko, who is the son of Sacha Votichenko, Russian musician, and the late Mrs....

Sacha Votichenko, 83, Dead; Expert on Royal Tympanon

‎

New York Times - Oct 31, 1971

Special to Tile New York Times SCOTTSDALE, Ariz., Oct. 30 --Sacha Vetichenko, Russianborn musician who until recently had taught in New York, died here on ...

Russian Hopes To Play Music In Vatican .

‎Evening Independent - Feb 14, 1950ROME— Sacha Votichenko, Russian-born, educated in England and- living in' New York, hopes to realize a lifelong ambition:: To play in the Vati can- Sistine'

ROBERT A. GARDNER TO WED.; National Amateur Golf Champion...

‎New York Times - Nov 17, 1915

MISS FB STAATS A BRIDE. Married to Frank Wright Tuttle at Her Home in Park Avenue. Aiiss Frederieka B. Staats, daughter of i{r. and Mrs. J. Henry Staats, was....

David C Davenport was the grandson of DO Davenport (David Orr) and Priscilla's cousin David's father was named McHarg,

after his father David Orr Davenport's brokerage partner, Henry K. McHarg. The Staats, Robert P. and John Henry Staats were

related to the Davenports, because Helen Davenport Tuttle Votichenko's and Fredrika Tuttle Blair Hasting's mother, Frederieka B. Staats Tuttle Callaway was the daughter of engineer John Henry Staats.

MISS MARIAN McHARG WEDS.

‎New York Times - Jun 2, 1910

Henry K. j McHarg, Jr., her brother, was Mr. Vena-! ! hip s best man. ... Venable; Miss Mildred Staats and Frederick Staats, Mrs. DO Davenport, Henry Davenport,

The point is that before Jerome Hastings married the former wife of David H. Blair, Jr. in 1967, David C. Davenport knew Blair and

Terry Votichenko because they were married to the Tuttle sisters who were related to Davenport.

Princeton Alumni Weekly - Volume 75 - Page 63

books.google.com/books?id=JRVbAAAAYAAJ

1974 - Full view - More editions

... with brisk despatches of both offensive and defensive import. On the ground at New Year's 1944 the German Army was still a fire-breathing and only marginally wounded dragon, while Ultra's military detachment was increasingly overtaxed. Here the American recruits were winnowed out over several months of on-the-job schooling until two new senior advisers were chosen, David H. Blair '40 and Curt A. Zimansky "37 (both Lt.-Capt. Infantry). To them and their six British colleagues was entrusted the tensest and most dramatic of enemy communications: the myriad army orders, situation estimates, pending panzer attacks, requests (usually followed by refusals) for retreat authorization, disastrous tank and gun loss reports, promises of reenforcement divisions and their arrival schedules. The messages behind virtually every major occurrence of the war poured The messages behind virtually every major occurrence of the war poured in an endless stream across their desk, until the strangely quiet morning of May 7, 1945, when the last Enigmas in Bohemia went off the air, and the clattering deciphering machines across the hallway at Bletchley followed suit. ... Princeton Alumni Weekly - Volume 75 - Page 64

...Blair retumed to Princeton to pursue a Ph.D. in history, but stopped short in favor of writing on his own. Also caught up as a reservist in the Korean War, he headed the Section of Army Intelligence concerned with the pseudopolice armed forces of the German Democratic Republic at the iciest phase of the Cold War. Back at Princeton again, ....

Princeton Alumni Weekly - Volume 70 - Page 15 - Google Books Result

books.google.com/books?id=HxlbAAAAYAAJ

1969

.... the son of Adelaide Cannon and David Hunt Blair, Commissioner of Internal ... David served in Anny Intelligence in both the 2nd World War and the Korean War.

Taras Alexander "Terry" Votichenko Obituary: View ... - Legacy.com

http://www.legacy.co...x?pid=147968305

Votichenko, Taras "Terry" Alexander 94, of Paradise Valley passed away on January 16, ... Eisenhower to set up the US military government in newly liberated France. ... After the war, he worked for the OSS as head of the North Africa division.

.....to Tempe, Arizona to teach Philosophy and Psychology at AZ State University.

Princeton Alumni Weekly: Taras A. Votichenko

paw.princeton.edu › PAW Home › Memorials

Apr 27, 2011 – Taras A. Votichenko '40 ... Eisenhower to set up the U.S. military government in liberated ... After the war, he headed the OSS in North Africa.

http://www.nytimes.c...-author-71.html

Fredrika Blair-Hastings, Author, 71

Published: July 06, 1990

Fredrika Blair-Hastings, author of a 1986 biography of the dancer Isadora Duncan, died on July 1. She

was 71 years old and lived in Carmel, Calif.

The cause of death was cancer, a family friend, Jeremiah Newton, said.

Born in New York City, Mrs. Blair-Hastings was a graduate of Sarah Lawrence College in Bronxville. She

began work on the Duncan biography, titled ''Isadora, Portrait of the Artist as a Woman,'' in the

1950's. During the next decade she produced a dance documentary starring Anna Duncan, Julia Levien and

Hortense Kooluris, all exponents of Duncan dance.

Mrs. Blair-Hastings is survived by her husband, Jerome Hastings, and a sister, Helen Votichenko, of

Scotsdale, Ariz.

Who's who in Entertainment - Volume 1 - Page 59

Who's who in Entertainment - Volume 1 - Page 59

books.google.com/books?id=58BkAAAAMAAJ

1989 - Snippet view - More editions

...........

91602 BLAIR, FREDRIKA TUTTLE HASTINGS, writer: b. Bklyn.. June 22. 1917: d. Frank Wright and Fredericka

Bremer (Staats) Tutile; m. David Hunt Blair Jr.. June 21, 1941 (div. June 1947); m. Jerome Allen

Hastings. BA. Sarah Lawrence Coll., 1939. Ind. writer NYC, 1953 — . Author: Isadora: Portrait of the

Artist As a Woman, 1985, preface to The Wanderer by Alain Foumier. 1953; contbr. numerous articles to

mags., newspapers. Vol. tchr. English Com. for Refugee Edn.. NYC. 1941-42: vol. dieticians aide

Halloran Hosp.. SI., NY., 1943-44: vol. tchrs. aide Pub. Sch. 154, NYC. 1963-64. Mem. Authors Guild.

Soc. of of Dance History Scholars. Office: care Curtis Brown Ltd 10 Astor PI New York NY 10003

http://newspaperarch...90-07-07/page-8

Internationally acclaimed of Isadora Duncan and patron of local art music and dance died of cancer in

her Carmel CA home on Monday She was 72 years old and known to her many friends as Teddy Born in New

York City on June 22 1918 her parents were Fredericka Staats Tuttle and motion picture director Frank W

Tuttle noted for Bing Crosby musi cals and other films including This Gun For Hire starring Alan Ladd

During her early life she lived in Greenwich Connecticut and Holly wood where she encountered fa mous

members of the film colony before moving with her mother and sister Helen to live in Switzerland for

six years There she attended The International School of Geneva from which she graduated In 1935 she

returned to the United States and lived in New York City while a student at Sarah Lawrence College in

Bronxville After graduation she pursued her interest in the dance with emphasis on the work of Isadora

Duncan Through her Taras Votichenko who had close ties with the Duncan family she became both a dance

student and friend of Anna Duncan one of the famous She continued research and wrote about Isadora

during her marriage to David Hunt Blair who was on the University faculty a divorce she married Jerome

A Hastings she met in Santa Fe New Mexico Together they traveled throughout the United States visiting

universities and li with Isadora Duncan reposi tories They settled in 1967 in Carmel her husbands

hometown for many years They also main a summer residence in Santa Fe and traveled extensively in

Europe Her years of research and writing culminated in the publica tion by McGraw Hill in 1986of her

definitive biography Isadora Portrait of the Artist as a Woman under the pen name Fredrika Blair This

led to international recognition and wide acclaim Be sides many talks and appearances in this country

and abroad she was interviewed in London by both British television and radio net works The Japanese

translation of her work is due for release in Japan this year The Spanish edition appeared in Argentina

Mexico and Spain Locally she spoke on her work at Monterey Peninsula College and at the Mon terey

Peninsula Writers Club of which she was a member Other memberships included the Authors Guild The

Society of Dance History Scholars The Dance Guild and many other organizations in the dance world

Survivors besides her husband are her sister and Helen and Taras Votichenko of Scottsdale Arizona three

nephews Michael Peter and Terry Votichenko a grandniece and namesake Fredri ka Votichenko and

grandnephews Alex and Nicholas Votichenko At her request donations in her memory may be made to Amnesty

International the organization of which she was an active member for many years They should be

addressed to Amnesty Internation al Groupe 204 PO Box 52185 Pacific Grove CA

Isadora: portrait of the artist as a woman - Page xvii

books.google.com/books?id=tI21AAAAIAAJ

Fredrika Blair - 1986 - Snippet view - More editions

... Sacha Votichenko; and my sister Helen Tuttle Votichenko — and my friend Nancy Hallinan for their

criticism and help with this book. Above all, I should like to thank my husband Jerome Hastings for

criticism, typing, encouragement, and help....

Observations: All these "bees" started buzzing around Lee Harvey Oswald after he visited the U.S. Embassy in Moscow.

Priscilla Johnson was an early one and she is documented as bringing her first cousin, David Coit Davenport into her

book "project." All of the other names in my past few posts are connected to Davenport.

The common thread I note here is that the names of the bees we've been allowed to read have been almost impenetrable to researchers, when they were made available at all. David Davenport is a rarely seen name, and Jerome Hastings was only mentioned in one news report not associating him with Davenport, and in one known FBI report.

Snyder came out of the shadows with a misleading presentation, much later.:

The Soviet sojourn of Citizen Oswald

Washington Post

By Richard E. Snyder, Published: January 31,2012

http://www.washingto...jIgQ_story.html

What does an American diplomat do about a 20-year-old boy who wants to defect? After all the conspiracy theories and speculations, our man in Moscow in 1959 now tells his side.

First published April 1, 1979.

"Oswald appeared at the office of Richard E. Snyder, the senior consular official. . . well and favorably known to me . . . 'I had a traitor on my hands!' said Snyder, 'and his arrogance was unbelievable.' — Henry J. Taylor, syndicated columnist

"Richard E. Snyder, who had joined the CIA in June 1949 as an intelligence operative, then had served in Tokyo under State Department cover and was now acting as senior consular official in Moscow, recalled that Oswald banged his passport down on snyder's desk." — Edward J. Epsstein, "Legend"

.........................

Nothing was known about cousin Davenport or about Jerome Snyder's background and connections. Davenport made a practice of

filing updates intended for reading by Princeton alumni. Would not that group have found Davenport's accounts of arranging two sequester sojourns for the widow of the lone nut assassin, interesting reading? We do not know the extent of the involvement of the other "bees" I have named, but goodness, there do seem to be a lot of them!

Dear Mr. Scully,

Can you imagine the technological nightmare of trying to quote and respond to just a small part of one of your interminably long (but somewhat interesting) posts?

(Not to mention the arduous task of trying to read one them in a single sitting?)

Sincerely,

--Tommy

Tommy, asking you again to do it somewhere else. There seem to be two main types active on this forum. One type posts to interfere with the other type.

Before I was interrupted.......

The Arizona Republic Newspaper of Phoenix, the FBI Report on this topic, Priscilla Johnson, and her cousin David C. Davenport never shared the detail that Priscilla, David, and the FBI surely knew. Jerome Allen Hastings had a habit of using two different last names. When your family is as full of espionage agents as Priscilla's and David's was, I guess this is no surprise.:

RootsWeb: NYC-ROOTS-L NYTimes/1Jul1908/Marriages - Archiver

Meet the parents.: Published: July 1, 1908 - New York Times

HASTY/JOHNSON - On June 29, at Summit, N. J., Zilla Louise Johnson to Jerome Allen Hasty

Las Vegas Optic, Monday, July 31, 1967 : Front Page

Las Vegas Optic, Monday, July 31, 1967 : Front Page

newspaperarchive.com › Home › Las Vegas Optic

... the plaintiff of buing mentally ill and recom mended that judicial proceedings ... pick Aliss McAdams further states in her complaint she up ran into the rear of.....

continued here:

and she was transported to the State Hospital at Las Vegas, where she was incarcerated from July 28, 1965 to August 15, 1965.

The Plaintiff states in her complaint that Dr. Bram-antl issued a false and malicious medical report "ac-cusing the plaintiff of being mentally ill," and recommended that "judicial proceedings be instituted against the plaintiff.

plaintiff Further the complaint states was held incommunicado five days was refused a lawyer which she had requested and that medication was forced on her against her will Leon the complaint says was induced by the other and conspired with them to trick the plaintiff into signing a voluntary commitment paper on Aug 12 A hearing was held before Judge James M Scar borough says without her knowledge or presence When she left hospital Aug 15 the release form stated die h been admitted lo the hospital on July 28 as n patient The woman stated in her complaint was not able to obtain legal counsel dial certain records and dockets wort missing thai James E Thomson gave her false and misleading information on the recommendation of Norman M assistant district attorney Finally when plaintiff went to the Grand Jury.....

[Len Colby]

Dear Mr. Scully,

Can you imagine the technological nightmare of trying to quote and respond to just a small part of one of your interminably long (but somewhat interesting) posts?

(Not to mention the arduous task of trying to read one them in a single sitting?)

Sincerely,

--Tommy

Tommy, asking you again to do it somewhere else. There seem to be two main types active on this forum. One type posts to interfere with the other type.

Am I crazy or is Scully attempting to use his power as a moderator to intimidate someone who disagrees with his views? [Yeah, I know false dichotomy, both could be true!]

[Guest Tom Scully]

Tommy, you have your own thread here to play in. Why disrupt other threads?

Tom, why don't you just get to the point of what you're trying to say -- instead of stuffing the thread full of page after page of loosely related quotations?

--Paul

Paul,

Bingo!

--Tommy

[Guest Tom Scully]

Paul,

I suspect the reason this thread has been viewed so many times over the past year is simply due to it's interesting title. You know, "CIA," "Sheep Dip," "Patsy," "Lee Harvey Oswald?"...

Sincerely,

--Tommy

Tommy, I agree with you completely. The title is intriguing. That's why I thought my contribution was viable, i.e. that the the "CIA" was not the true "Sheep Dip" vehicle to make "Lee Harvey Oswald" into ther "Patsy" to kill JFK.

Instead, as I have repeatedly re-affirmed on this thread, it was (as Jack Ruby and Harry Dean have said all along) ex-General Edwin Walker, the John Birch Society and their many right-wing resources.

But that causes a major conflict with Tom, evidently, who has posted countless hyperlinks of 185,000 pages (by his count) of supporting evidence that the CIA did it. But his evidence is too loosey goosey.

For example, his sources sort of suggest that Priscilla Johnson McMillan was a CIA agent who met Lee Harvey Oswald in Moscow in 1959. So what? Are we to assume that the CIA plotted to kill JFK in 1959, even before JFK became President?

That is, 185,000 pages of hyperlinks can be used to show anything at all, or to give rise to thousands of more questions.

As I've already requested from Tom -- please post one single page of his own text to clearly state his objectives. Tom hasn't done that yet.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Dear Mr. Trejo,

What's really interesting is that of the astronomical 186,225 "views" of this thread, only thirty-two (or is it thirty-one?) of the "replies" to it were posted by people other than Scully, and most of those were posted by you, Colby, and myself! LOL. I wonder why only 1.7% of the "views" have resulted in posts? Could it be that Mr. Scully's posts are just a tad too unwieldy and/or overwhelming to analytically (you know, "break down into smaller parts so you can take a look at them individually") quote and comment upon, or do most people just find them a bit too circumstantial, tedious, detailed, and obvious (yes, the rich and powerful people do like to associate with one another) to comment upon? I mean, there's got to be a reason for the low response rate.

Sincerely,

--Tommy

Actually Tommy, the opposite of your latest smear appears to be the reason. As you can see by the page views attracted by the thread I am presently posting in,

Thomas Graves, What sort of posts & threads would you prefer to read?

42 replies 2836 page views = 67 views per reply (a ratio even lower that in the JVB thread.)

The "outside world" is uninterested in most Ed Forum threads with high post counts vs page views.

This presentation should make it clearer to you why I object to the "work" of Len, Paul, and yourself,

and you certainly are not alone. I am reluctant to post if I have nothing constructive to add. You do not seem similarly inhibited.

Dear Mr. Trejo,

What's really interesting is that of the astronomical 186,225 "views" of this thread, only thirty-two (or is it thirty-one?) of the "replies" to it were posted by people other than Scully, and most of those were posted by you, Colby, and myself! LOL. .....

You are correct, your troika stepped on the "Sheep Dipped" thread and I conceded and withdrew. Next?

(quote name='Tom Scully' timestamp='1365680650' post='271425')

...................................

Amateur agent - Page 107

books.google.com/books?id=-EARAQAAIAAJ

Ewan Butler - 1963 -

... The German Legation in Stockholm published a monthly magazine called Der Deutsche in Schweden (The German in Sweden). This periodical was intended to circulate only within the large German colony, but we were among its most devoted readers. Often the social gossip and carefully censored news of arrivals and departures provided us with clues which were extremely useful. It is worth remarking, incidentally, that the study of newspapers, and particularly of local newspapers, is an important part of routine intelligence work. I recall a case, which was only one among thousands such, in which an advertisement offering a reward for the return of a lost dog, which appeared in an obscure North German weekly newspaper, enabled our " order of battle " experts to locate an enemy division which had apparently vanished from the earth, and whose whereabouts was a matter of some concern to the War Office. ....(endquote)

Some analysis of how the competition of methods and presented results in Education Forum, JFK Debate

threads has attracted outside interest during the 2004 to 2013 period, assuming the "views" function serves up accurate results.:

...............................

Top 9 JFK Debate "non-pinned" threads viewed, displayed highest to lowest number of views per reply:

JFk & Jackie : Were They Who Their Friends Were? Which Friends Expressed Dissatisfaction over Lone Nut Assassin?

Started by Tom Scully, 26 Aug 2012 6 replies 135,864 views = 22,644 views per reply

Lee Harvey Oswald's Oldest Daughter

Started by Dixie Dea, 28 Apr 2004 12 replies 192,987 views = 16,082 views per reply

(I did not create the Bernard Fensterwald thread, I (only) have a hunch I have influenced these stats.)

Bernard Fensterwald

Started by John Simkin, 02 Aug 2005 24 replies 157,998 views = 6583 views per reply

Did the C.I.A. "Sheep Dip" and Orchestrate the Tale of the Patsy, Lee Harvey Oswald?

Started by Tom Scully, 17 May 2012 37 replies 183,852 views = 4969 views per reply

George De Mohrenschildt

Started by John Simkin, 02 Aug 2006 70 replies 216,079 views = 3087 views per reply

SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS: Truth or Obfuscation?

Started by James H. Fetzer , 31 Dec 2009 392 replies 405,562 views = 1035 views per reply

David Talbot's New Book Brothers

Started by Nathaniel Heidenheimer, 22 Apr 2007 342 replies 97,594 views = 285 views per reply

J. D. Tippit: Was he part of the conspiracy?

Started by John Simkin, 11 Jan 2005 348 replies 85,295 views = 245 views per reply

Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile

Started by James H. Fetzer , 28 Feb 2010 3,029 replies 217,076 views = 72 views per reply

Tommy, how does Eddie Hooker's uncle and business partner, DeMohrenschildt's chumming with Lee Oswald and David Davenport's and his friend, Jeremy Hasting's sequestering (twice) Marina Oswald fit your dismissive, (Yes, Virginia, the rich and powerful do like to associate with one another)

I am campaigning to embarrass the POTUSes Bush and 'Cilla to the point where they reply to such awkward questions. You seem to be a member of the chorus.:

http://jfkfacts.org/...k/#comment-5676

I actually doubt that. Yes, government officials and CIA officers have intersecting social graphs. That is not evidence, much less proof of a conspiracy.....

How can you know if you discourage the efforts of those working to hold them accountable by making the

case that they need to explain why things were not how they appeared.....or.... Ed Hooker was allegedly not questioned by the FBI about DeMohrenschildt and background of FBI informer Col. Lawrence Orlov was not

put into the WC record.

The HSCA did not interview David Davenport or Jerome Hasty - Hastings. Priscilla had been fronting since '59, she was good to go in '78 except for the awkward bit about her father's concealed suicide, considering Allen Dulles's cousin was the last person to see Stuart Johnson alive, and that Hugh Aynesworth's boss, Osborn Elliott was in a position to know more about the circumstances than Priscilla claimed to know.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Tom Scully

[Thomas Graves]

[...]

Dear Mr. Trejo,

What's really interesting is that of the astronomical 186,225 "views" of this thread, only thirty-two (or is it thirty-one?) of the "replies" to it were posted by people other than Scully, and most of those were posted by you, Colby, and myself!

I wonder why only .017% of the "views" have resulted in posts? Could it be that Mr. Scully's posts are just a tad too unwieldy to analytically ("break down into smaller parts so you can take a look at them individually") quote and comment upon, or do most people just find them a bit too circumstantial or tedious or tortuous or obvious (Yes, virginia, the rich and powerful do like to associate with one another) to comment upon? I mean, there's got to be a reason for the low response rate.

Sincerely,

--Tommy

Actually Tommy, the opposite of your latest smear appears to be the reason. As you can see by the page views attracted by the thread I am presently posting in,

Thomas Graves, What sort of posts & threads would you prefer to read?

42 replies 2836 page views = 67 views per reply (a ratio even lower that in the JVB thread.)

The "outside world" is uninterested in most Ed Forum threads with high post counts vs page views.

This presentation should make it clearer to you why I object to the "work" of Len, Paul, and yourself,

and you certainly are not alone. I am reluctant to post if I have nothing constructive to add. You do not seem similarly inhibited.

Dear Mr. Trejo,

What's really interesting is that of the astronomical 186,225 "views" of this thread, only thirty-two (or is it thirty-one?) of the "replies" to it were posted by people other than Scully, and most of those were posted by you, Colby, and myself! LOL. .....

You are correct, your troika stepped on the "Sheep Dipped" thread and I conceded and withdrew. Next?

(quote name='Tom Scully' timestamp='1365680650' post='271425')

...................................

Amateur agent - Page 107

books.google.com/books?id=-EARAQAAIAAJ

Ewan Butler - 1963 -

... The German Legation in Stockholm published a monthly magazine called Der Deutsche in Schweden (The German in Sweden). This periodical was intended to circulate only within the large German colony, but we were among its most devoted readers. Often the social gossip and carefully censored news of arrivals and departures provided us with clues which were extremely useful. It is worth remarking, incidentally, that the study of newspapers, and particularly of local newspapers, is an important part of routine intelligence work. I recall a case, which was only one among thousands such, in which an advertisement offering a reward for the return of a lost dog, which appeared in an obscure North German weekly newspaper, enabled our " order of battle " experts to locate an enemy division which had apparently vanished from the earth, and whose whereabouts was a matter of some concern to the War Office. ....(endquote)

Some analysis of how the competition of methods and presented results in Education Forum, JFK Debate

threads has attracted outside interest during the 2004 to 2013 period, assuming the "views" function serves up accurate results.:

...............................

Top 9 JFK Debate "non-pinned" threads viewed, displayed highest to lowest number of views per reply:

JFk & Jackie : Were They Who Their Friends Were? Which Friends Expressed Dissatisfaction over Lone Nut Assassin?

Started by Tom Scully, 26 Aug 2012 6 replies 135,864 views = 22,644 views per reply

Lee Harvey Oswald's Oldest Daughter

Started by Dixie Dea, 28 Apr 2004 12 replies 192,987 views = 16,082 views per reply

(I did not create the Bernard Fensterwald thread, I (only) have a hunch I have influenced these stats.)

Bernard Fensterwald

Started by John Simkin, 02 Aug 2005 24 replies 157,998 views = 6583 views per reply

Did the C.I.A. "Sheep Dip" and Orchestrate the Tale of the Patsy, Lee Harvey Oswald?

Started by Tom Scully, 17 May 2012 37 replies 183,852 views = 4969 views per reply

George De Mohrenschildt

Started by John Simkin, 02 Aug 2006 70 replies 216,079 views = 3087 views per reply

SIX SECONDS IN DALLAS: Truth or Obfuscation?

Started by James H. Fetzer , 31 Dec 2009 392 replies 405,562 views = 1035 views per reply

David Talbot's New Book Brothers

Started by Nathaniel Heidenheimer, 22 Apr 2007 342 replies 97,594 views = 285 views per reply

J. D. Tippit: Was he part of the conspiracy?

Started by John Simkin, 11 Jan 2005 348 replies 85,295 views = 245 views per reply

Judyth Vary Baker: Living in Exile

Started by James H. Fetzer , 28 Feb 2010 3,029 replies 217,076 views = 72 views per reply

Tommy, how does Eddie Hooker's uncle and business partner, DeMohrenschildt's chumming with Lee Oswald and David Davenport's and his friend, Jeremy Hasting's sequestering (twice) Marina Oswald fit your dismissive, (Yes, Virginia, the rich and powerful do like to associate with one another)

I am campaigning to embarrass the POTUSes Bush and 'Cilla to the point where they reply to such awkward questions. You seem to be a member of the chorus.:

http://jfkfacts.org/...k/#comment-5676

I actually doubt that. Yes, government officials and CIA officers have intersecting social graphs. That is not evidence, much less proof of a conspiracy.....

Dear Mr. Scully,

According to my calculations, the ratio of non-Scully replies to "views" on your current "CIA-'Sheep Dip'-Patsy-LHO" thread is 1 to 5820 which tends to suggest that although people are sufficiently interested in the rather provacative title of the thread to take a look at some of the posts on it, they are not interested enough in the so-called "substance" of the posts themselves to actually comment on them.

Sincerely,

--Tommy

Edited April 22, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[Guest Tom Scully]

Tommy,

The numbers prove the exact opposite of your analysis. Here is some more posts vs. page views data.:

http://educationforu...ilter=all&st=30

There are two types of high page views threads. Most of the threads displayed on the page linked above attracted page views because a relatively small number of members of this forum posted multiple replies in those threads.

However, except for the thread with just four replies, it seems there was very little interest in viewing pages of the threads in the linked example page if a potential viewer did not happen to be an Ed Forum member already participating in the thread with a high

number of replies.

Consider also that a thread with a high number of replies is often listed on the first page of the JFK Debate Forum. A thread with a low number of replies and a high number of page views does not attract as much interest as it fades into the back pages queue.

More often than not the reason a thread like the one titled Judith Vary Baker (72 page views per post) runs up page views has little to do with broad interest of its relevant content. The interest in that thread is narrowly confined to those posting multiple times in the thread. Most threads with more than 40,000 page views on this forum also attract more than 75 posts and experienced members expect the activity and interest is driven by arguments uninteresting to almost everyone not actively posting in those threads.

The posts per page views support the observation that the uniqueness and the quality of the supporting citations in any thread on this forum are the primary draw of page views. Less replies posted to a thread, along with unique content can be shown to be a prerequisite for presenting to the most number of potentially interested readers. An above average post count drives potential viewers away.

You have posted more than once that the opposite of what the numbers are showing, is true.

In the final analysis what will matter is the ongoing attention by those who do engage in the debate, not the so called 'noise'. Though I do sometimes find the noise very interesting and often quite amusing. In the long run it builds an interesting 'landscape' of personalities that future sociologists, psychiatrists, historians may find worthy of study. (These pages on the Forum are building into quite a document that will allow a very large number of studies in many fields. Interestingly they exist in parts on many many hard disks throughout the world.)

It is noticeable when the discussion gets very heated the number of page views go up.....

Nope....quite the opposite. Not when page views per post are taken into account.:

Ralph Leon Yates 177 replies7,003 views

All the uniqueness in the world cannot repair the damage done to the Yates thread by too many heated posts from a small number of posters.

Members tend not post in reaction to unique and well supported opening posts. The last thing I want to attract in a new thread is what passes here for "discussion". Nobody but the members participating take much interest in "busy" threads.

JFk & Jackie : Were They Who Their Friends Were? Which Friends Expressed Dissatisfaction over Lone Nut Assassin?

6 replies 136,471 views

Edited April 22, 2013 by Tom Scully

[Guest Tom Scully]

Tommy,

The numbers prove the exact opposite of your analysis. Here is some more posts vs. page views data.:

http://educationforu...ilter=all&st=30

There are two types of high page views threads. Most of the threads displayed on the page linked above attracted page views because a relatively small number of members of this forum posted multiple replies in those threads.

However, except for the thread with just four replies, it seems there was very little interest in viewing pages of the threads in the linked example page if a potential viewer did not happen to be an Ed Forum member already participating in the thread with a high

number of replies.

Consider also that a thread with a high number of replies is often listed on the first page of the JFK Debate Forum. A thread with a low number of replies and a high number of page views does not attract as much interest as it fades into the back pages queue.

More often than not the reason a thread like the one titled Judith Vary Baker (72 page views per post) runs up page views has little to do with broad interest of its relevant content. The interest in that thread is narrowly confined to those posting multiple times in the thread. Most threads with more than 40,000 page views on this forum also attract more than 75 posts and experienced members expect the activity and interest is driven by arguments uninteresting to almost everyone not actively posting in those threads.

The posts per page views support the observation that the uniqueness and the quality of the supporting citations in any thread on this forum are the primary draw of page views. Less replies posted to a thread, along with unique content can be shown to be a prerequisite for presenting to the most number of potentially interested readers. An above average post count drives potential viewers away.

You have posted more than once that the opposite of what the numbers are showing, is true.

In the final analysis what will matter is the ongoing attention by those who do engage in the debate, not the so called 'noise'. Though I do sometimes find the noise very interesting and often quite amusing. In the long run it builds an interesting 'landscape' of personalities that future sociologists, psychiatrists, historians may find worthy of study. (These pages on the Forum are building into quite a document that will allow a very large number of studies in many fields. Interestingly they exist in parts on many many hard disks throughout the world.)

It is noticeable when the discussion gets very heated the number of page views go up.....

Nope....quite the opposite. Not when page views per post are taken into account.:

Ralph Leon Yates 177 replies7,003 views

All the uniqueness in the world cannot repair the damage done to the Yates thread by too many heated posts from a small number of posters.

Members tend not post in reaction to unique and well supported opening posts. The last thing I want to attract in a new thread is what passes here for "discussion". Nobody but the members participating take much interest in "busy" threads.

JFk & Jackie : Were They Who Their Friends Were? Which Friends Expressed Dissatisfaction over Lone Nut Assassin? Started 26 Aug 2012 6 replies 136,471 views

I invite constructive and contributory replies, they are rare exceptions.

On the two men Bowers saw .... Started by 11 Sep 2007 920 replies 46,374 views

[Len Colby]

Am I crazy or is Scully attempting to use his power as a moderator to intimidate someone who disagrees with his views? [Yeah, I know false dichotomy, both could be true!]

Do you really want an answer to that question?

I asked, didn't I? My ego is not as inflated as that of a certain LA high school teacher. See if you address both parts of my question

[Len Colby]

According to the count the "sheep dip" thread has gotten an average of about 540 a day since it was created, something must be up. My guess is there is aleast one outside link to it.

[Guest Tom Scully]

Tommy,

Was this really necessary? BA Copeland's post displays just above yours. Mr. Copeland did not quote Martin's entire opening post, just above Copeland's, and it was more responsive to the points in the opening post.

The stuffing of Martin Hay's new thread begins.....

One of the most mysterious characters of the entire assassination I think is Marina and she is still very well alive today. To supplement this topic Martin I'll post G. Bailey's article here (not that I agree with absolutely every idea or hypothesis posted) as well because it certainly helps in terms of clarifying the Marina 'issue' as well:

Thursday, October 15, 2009

From Marina Prusakova, With Love

Nobody in the annals of the JFK assassination is who they appear to be at first glance. Marina Oswald Porter has done a good job at portraying herself as the distraught widow of a man charged with one of the dastardliest crimes of the 20th century. An innocent Russia girl meets American defector, falls in love and marries after meeting him 6 weeks earlier and with him and baby in tow, return to America. Of course, she cannot maintain this image alone, and had a great deal of help from writer Priscilla Johnson McMillan, who herself got the first interview in Moscow with Lee Oswald upon his defection. We now know from document releases that she was also a CIA asset. As Donald Jameson, the CIA’s Chief of the Soviet Russia division said in a memo, "I think that Miss Johnson can be encouraged to write pretty much the articles we want." She has in fact spent a career helping the Government’s case of Oswald as the long gunman in books and articles and wrote Marina and Lee with Marina’s input.

Marina’s Ability To Speak English

One apparent falsehood Marina maintained for years is that she did not speak English when she arrived in America with her defector husband. In her Warren Commission testimony she required the need of a translator to answer questions. Years later in Garrison grand jury testimony, when asked who she spoke to when they landed in New York, she said no one as she didn’t speak English. In fact she stated numerous times in her testimony that she didn’t speak English at all in her first years in America. She also said in grand jury testimony that back in 1963 she was taking English lessons from George Bola who just happened to be Jack Ruby’s next-door neighbor. However, her statements of not being able to speak and understand English is at odds with the facts as we now know them.

Here is a list of points that dispel this myth:

• In 1961 while still in Russia, Lee mails Marina a letter written in English.
  
• Robert Webster, another American defector, said he knew Marina and she spoke good English with a heavy accent.
  
• Descriptions on the back of photos taken in Russia are in Marina’s handwriting in Russian and English.
  
• Warren Commission, CE-100. Marina’s stenographic notebook found by the Dallas Police written in English. They also found a second notebook with Marina’s handwriting in English. There are other notebooks with her English writing in the National Archives.
  
• Business manager James Martin testified that she understood everything said to her in English.
  
• Robert Oswald in an FBI affidavit said Marina spoke to him in English, without a translator, in regards to a business contract with James Martin. A contract written only in English.
  
• Marguerite Oswald in Warren Commission testimony mentions numerous conversations with Marina—all in English.
  
• Marina gets trapped in Garrison grand jury testimony saying she called Reilly Coffee Company looking for Lee. She was asked how should could do that, she replied she knew “a few words.”
  

Though filled with inconsistencies in the evidence the WC fails to explore these apparent contractions. As usual, don’t tell us more than we want to know. Marina knowing English well enough to write and speak would raise questions of where she learned it; she was after all, a graduate of pharmacy school. And why would she need it anyway? She would only need if she were an operative for the State. And Oswald was not the only American defector she met in Russia. She also met and spoke with Robert Webster, though she denies this though her address book had the address of the apartment building he stayed in.

Interestingly, Lee Oswald spoke excellent Russian but not much of it in Russia. Befriended by the Ziger family, they report Oswald only spoke in English with their father translating. We know from released transcripts that his apartment was bugged by the KGB and fluent Russian speaking could have brought about an arrest for espionage. The Russians were already suspicious of him upon his arrival. It seems he only spoke Russian to Marina as she said he spoke well enough to have a Baltic accent. But why did he trust her to the exclusion of all others? It may be that she was an operative and needed him as her ticket out of Russia and into the United States. Former KGB defector, Petr Deryabin said that any Russian woman that wanted to marry a foreigner and leave had to agree to work for the KGB. Marina got her permission slip fast—in 7 days. Marriage certificates were issued by the secret police, which were also issued promptly.

Marina And Prostitution

And she seems like such a nice girl. So sweet and innocent in her early pictures, so pained with grief at the ghastly chain of events she become involved with. To find out that she may have been involved with a prostitution ring in Leningrad is quite a shock. Certainly a great departure from what was written by Priscilla McMillan in “Marina and Lee,” the 1974 book describing Marina as a virtuous woman. A women allegedly thanked by Lee for saving herself for him on their wedding night. However, a Mr. Merezhinsky tells a different tale.

Yuri Merezhinsky, interviewed by Norman Mailer for his book Oswald’s Tale, says she was anything but virtuous, claiming she was a prostitute. He knew Marina quite well and says she was in a group of four people—two women and two men—that were plying their trade in a Hotel Leningrad that were eventually booted out of the city. It was an offence strong enough to be sent to a labor camp, which didn’t happen to Marina. What would lead her to this alleged occupation can only be speculated at but the KGB did maintain, “honey traps” for intelligence gathering purposes from various officials, both local and foreign. She would have been known as a “swallow” in the honey trap. Marina was known to associate with diplomats and high government bureaucrats. Her basic clientele would have been foreigners. She would years later admit to being raped by an Afghan ambassador. How would she meet up with this sort of individual? Never the less, Marina suddenly leaves Leningrad and ends up living with her aunt and uncle in Minsk, where he was a member of the secret police, the MVD. Merezhinsky, though not her lover, said she was quite promiscuous with many of his friends without regard to reputation. He said he never told Lee any of this. (Although Lee, understanding Russian would have picked up on the gossip.)

However, Yuri Merezhinsky is not the only witness to Marina’s sexual history. The afore mentioned James Martin, the business manager, was also Marina’s lover and learned a lot about her past. He would relate this account to the HSCA in 1978 that he attempted to tell the Warren Commission about her background he was suddenly interrupted by Earl Warren who ordered the stenographer to tear up the tape. This is destruction of witness testimony in front of the witness and the Commission! Of course this makes one wonder how much other testimony was also concealed from the public in this manner. As usual, the WC had more than they wanted to know. Marina being involved with an Afghan ambassador would raise too many questions about how she got access to such high officials and what she was doing with them and for whom.

Marina obliquely commented about prostitution in an interview for Oswald’s Tale. The interviewer commented about her carrying a “great burden” upon leaving Leningrad. She danced around the issue saying she was never paid any money without defining what she was doing to be paid money for. This is all we’ll know for now. Whether or not she was a prostitute is circumstantial at best except the footprints are all over the trail.

Epilogue

As usual, the Warren Commission conceals from us who Lee Oswald was and apparently who his wife was as well. Her testimony down through the years is fraught with numerous contradictions and apparent falsehoods. She is an enigma like her husband. She says she graduated from pharmacy school though she stated when she was 14 years old. As a young woman she goes on a two-month traveling vacation of which it is unknown how she paid for it or got the state permission to enter so many cities. The CIA wrote a 29-point report suspecting her of being a intelligence agent. She undertakes major life changes and choices with seemingly little emotional distress, discussion, or forethought. Marrying a misfit foreigner after only knowing him for 6 weeks, having a child with him, and then uprooting her life to move to another country where she does not speak the language (obviously false) or know anyone is achieved with as much aplomb as figuring out what to wear for the day.

If she married a foreigner to come over to play spy all plans were shattered with the assassination of John Kennedy. The KGB wanted no part of that. For the Warren Commission she went along with the flow. Now she says her late husband was innocent of any crime. In the Orleans Parish Grand Jury Transcripts, she comes off as a dunderhead, not remembering anything or knowing much of anything. She comes off strangely detached from all of the events around her. One can read, “I don’t know…” without end.

Marina knows plenty but playing dumb works.

Sources: Newman, John, Oswald and the CIA; Armstrong, John, Harvey and Lee; McKnight, Gerald, Breach of Trust; Warren Commission Report; Mailer, Norman, Oswald’s Tale

Marina Oswald Porter Orleans Parish Grand Jury Transcripts:

http://www.history-m...orter_0001a.htm

Source Page: (http://oswaldsmother...-with-love.html)

I stumbled across something about Marina recently on the internet. Seems she was working as a manager or assistant manager of a convenience store in Texas several years ago when some cash went missing from the cash register that particular shift, so the police department wrote her name, address, phone number, etc in their report of the incident. Nothing came of it, as far as I know. Fascinating how much bad luck she's had in her life. I'm too tired to try to find it again right now and then try to post it. Maybe someone else will?

--Tommy

[Thomas Graves]

Tommy,

Was this really necessary? BA Copeland's post displays just above yours. Mr. Copeland did not quote Martin's entire opening post, just above Copeland's, and it was more responsive to the points in the opening post.

The stuffing of Martin Hay's new thread begins.....

One of the most mysterious characters of the entire assassination I think is Marina and she is still very well alive today. To supplement this topic Martin I'll post G. Bailey's article here (not that I agree with absolutely every idea or hypothesis posted) as well because it certainly helps in terms of clarifying the Marina 'issue' as well:

Thursday, October 15, 2009

From Marina Prusakova, With Love

Nobody in the annals of the JFK assassination is who they appear to be at first glance. Marina Oswald Porter has done a good job at portraying herself as the distraught widow of a man charged with one of the dastardliest crimes of the 20th century. An innocent Russia girl meets American defector, falls in love and marries after meeting him 6 weeks earlier and with him and baby in tow, return to America. Of course, she cannot maintain this image alone, and had a great deal of help from writer Priscilla Johnson McMillan, who herself got the first interview in Moscow with Lee Oswald upon his defection. We now know from document releases that she was also a CIA asset. As Donald Jameson, the CIA’s Chief of the Soviet Russia division said in a memo, "I think that Miss Johnson can be encouraged to write pretty much the articles we want." She has in fact spent a career helping the Government’s case of Oswald as the long gunman in books and articles and wrote Marina and Lee with Marina’s input.

Marina’s Ability To Speak English

One apparent falsehood Marina maintained for years is that she did not speak English when she arrived in America with her defector husband. In her Warren Commission testimony she required the need of a translator to answer questions. Years later in Garrison grand jury testimony, when asked who she spoke to when they landed in New York, she said no one as she didn’t speak English. In fact she stated numerous times in her testimony that she didn’t speak English at all in her first years in America. She also said in grand jury testimony that back in 1963 she was taking English lessons from George Bola who just happened to be Jack Ruby’s next-door neighbor. However, her statements of not being able to speak and understand English is at odds with the facts as we now know them.

Here is a list of points that dispel this myth:

• In 1961 while still in Russia, Lee mails Marina a letter written in English.
• Robert Webster, another American defector, said he knew Marina and she spoke good English with a heavy accent.
• Descriptions on the back of photos taken in Russia are in Marina’s handwriting in Russian and English.
• Warren Commission, CE-100. Marina’s stenographic notebook found by the Dallas Police written in English. They also found a second notebook with Marina’s handwriting in English. There are other notebooks with her English writing in the National Archives.
• Business manager James Martin testified that she understood everything said to her in English.
• Robert Oswald in an FBI affidavit said Marina spoke to him in English, without a translator, in regards to a business contract with James Martin. A contract written only in English.
• Marguerite Oswald in Warren Commission testimony mentions numerous conversations with Marina—all in English.
• Marina gets trapped in Garrison grand jury testimony saying she called Reilly Coffee Company looking for Lee. She was asked how should could do that, she replied she knew “a few words.”

Though filled with inconsistencies in the evidence the WC fails to explore these apparent contractions. As usual, don’t tell us more than we want to know. Marina knowing English well enough to write and speak would raise questions of where she learned it; she was after all, a graduate of pharmacy school. And why would she need it anyway? She would only need if she were an operative for the State. And Oswald was not the only American defector she met in Russia. She also met and spoke with Robert Webster, though she denies this though her address book had the address of the apartment building he stayed in.

Interestingly, Lee Oswald spoke excellent Russian but not much of it in Russia. Befriended by the Ziger family, they report Oswald only spoke in English with their father translating. We know from released transcripts that his apartment was bugged by the KGB and fluent Russian speaking could have brought about an arrest for espionage. The Russians were already suspicious of him upon his arrival. It seems he only spoke Russian to Marina as she said he spoke well enough to have a Baltic accent. But why did he trust her to the exclusion of all others? It may be that she was an operative and needed him as her ticket out of Russia and into the United States. Former KGB defector, Petr Deryabin said that any Russian woman that wanted to marry a foreigner and leave had to agree to work for the KGB. Marina got her permission slip fast—in 7 days. Marriage certificates were issued by the secret police, which were also issued promptly.

Marina And Prostitution

And she seems like such a nice girl. So sweet and innocent in her early pictures, so pained with grief at the ghastly chain of events she become involved with. To find out that she may have been involved with a prostitution ring in Leningrad is quite a shock. Certainly a great departure from what was written by Priscilla McMillan in “Marina and Lee,” the 1974 book describing Marina as a virtuous woman. A women allegedly thanked by Lee for saving herself for him on their wedding night. However, a Mr. Merezhinsky tells a different tale.

Yuri Merezhinsky, interviewed by Norman Mailer for his book Oswald’s Tale, says she was anything but virtuous, claiming she was a prostitute. He knew Marina quite well and says she was in a group of four people—two women and two men—that were plying their trade in a Hotel Leningrad that were eventually booted out of the city. It was an offence strong enough to be sent to a labor camp, which didn’t happen to Marina. What would lead her to this alleged occupation can only be speculated at but the KGB did maintain, “honey traps” for intelligence gathering purposes from various officials, both local and foreign. She would have been known as a “swallow” in the honey trap. Marina was known to associate with diplomats and high government bureaucrats. Her basic clientele would have been foreigners. She would years later admit to being raped by an Afghan ambassador. How would she meet up with this sort of individual? Never the less, Marina suddenly leaves Leningrad and ends up living with her aunt and uncle in Minsk, where he was a member of the secret police, the MVD. Merezhinsky, though not her lover, said she was quite promiscuous with many of his friends without regard to reputation. He said he never told Lee any of this. (Although Lee, understanding Russian would have picked up on the gossip.)

However, Yuri Merezhinsky is not the only witness to Marina’s sexual history. The afore mentioned James Martin, the business manager, was also Marina’s lover and learned a lot about her past. He would relate this account to the HSCA in 1978 that he attempted to tell the Warren Commission about her background he was suddenly interrupted by Earl Warren who ordered the stenographer to tear up the tape. This is destruction of witness testimony in front of the witness and the Commission! Of course this makes one wonder how much other testimony was also concealed from the public in this manner. As usual, the WC had more than they wanted to know. Marina being involved with an Afghan ambassador would raise too many questions about how she got access to such high officials and what she was doing with them and for whom.

Marina obliquely commented about prostitution in an interview for Oswald’s Tale. The interviewer commented about her carrying a “great burden” upon leaving Leningrad. She danced around the issue saying she was never paid any money without defining what she was doing to be paid money for. This is all we’ll know for now. Whether or not she was a prostitute is circumstantial at best except the footprints are all over the trail.

Epilogue

As usual, the Warren Commission conceals from us who Lee Oswald was and apparently who his wife was as well. Her testimony down through the years is fraught with numerous contradictions and apparent falsehoods. She is an enigma like her husband. She says she graduated from pharmacy school though she stated when she was 14 years old. As a young woman she goes on a two-month traveling vacation of which it is unknown how she paid for it or got the state permission to enter so many cities. The CIA wrote a 29-point report suspecting her of being a intelligence agent. She undertakes major life changes and choices with seemingly little emotional distress, discussion, or forethought. Marrying a misfit foreigner after only knowing him for 6 weeks, having a child with him, and then uprooting her life to move to another country where she does not speak the language (obviously false) or know anyone is achieved with as much aplomb as figuring out what to wear for the day.

If she married a foreigner to come over to play spy all plans were shattered with the assassination of John Kennedy. The KGB wanted no part of that. For the Warren Commission she went along with the flow. Now she says her late husband was innocent of any crime. In the Orleans Parish Grand Jury Transcripts, she comes off as a dunderhead, not remembering anything or knowing much of anything. She comes off strangely detached from all of the events around her. One can read, “I don’t know…” without end.

Marina knows plenty but playing dumb works.

Sources: Newman, John, Oswald and the CIA; Armstrong, John, Harvey and Lee; McKnight, Gerald, Breach of Trust; Warren Commission Report; Mailer, Norman, Oswald’s Tale

Marina Oswald Porter Orleans Parish Grand Jury Transcripts:

http://www.history-m...orter_0001a.htm

Source Page: (http://oswaldsmother...-with-love.html)

I stumbled across something about Marina recently on the internet. Seems she was working as a manager or assistant manager of a convenience store in Texas several years ago when some cash went missing from the cash register that particular shift, so the police department wrote her name, address, phone number, etc in their report of the incident. Nothing came of it, as far as I know. Fascinating how much bad luck she's had in her life. I'm too tired to try to find it again right now and then try to post it. Maybe someone else will?

--Tommy

Dear Mr. Scully,

You are, of course, absolutely right.

It was unnecessary.

But not as unnecessary as most of your posts, and much shorter and not nearly as inscrutable, either.

Regardless, thanks for effectively "bumping" it for me!

--Tommy

Edited December 26, 2013 by Thomas Graves