Harvey and Lee: John Armstrong

[Greg Parker]

Parker... We understand you are still trying to find a way to get 200 days to fit into 123... all that time rolling on the floor must have affected your counting skills

As I am unable to locate my past calculations I assume they were removed. I guess I have to keep a copy this time...

After doing this for the second or third time, I expect you will reciprocate and finally give me your opinion on Bennierita Smith's testimony and why Armstrong avoided her like the plague. Then when move on to the FW riots and - and for those at the DeepFoo who only seem to be familiar with what Armstrong claims about the evidence - we can revisit what McBride actually said about the Soviet Program. Fair enough?

The 52-53 School year. Sept 1952 - June 1953.

Trinity

9 days attendance + 6 days absence (period of enrolment 9/8/52 - 9/26/52 = 15 school days which matches total of both figures)

PS 117

15 days attendance + 47 days absence + 2 part days attendance and 2 part days absence (period of enrolment 9/30/52 - 1/10/53 = 64 school days which matches total of all figures)

PS 44

109 days attendance + 15 days absence at Youth House + 3 part days attendance + 3 part days absence (period of enrolment 3/23/53 - 9/11/53 = approximately 127 to 129 depending on number of festive days off - less 55 summer recess = approximately 72 school days. So here, the days attendance column + days absent + part days = 127 - and that is where the confusion is coming in. They have simply included summer recess in days attended column because if you take 55 away from 127, you get 72 - the actual number of available school days. If you want to posit that they should not have done this unless he attended Summer School, please provide the records of another child from New York circa 1953 where those 55 days are accounted for differently.

Moreover, this is yet another example of you not thinking your position through to a logical conclusion because here - what your maths leads to in terms of your theory is that "Harvey" did indeed go to Summer School while Lee didn't (or the other around, as if it matters).

Now it's your turn.

Address the things I have asked you to address countless times.

Except the report does not stop at 9/11/53 Greg... it includes the Fall semester at one of the PS44's.

The FBI says there are 200 days of attendance between 3/23/53 and 1/12/54... All your previous month's info is not involved in this discussion.

Stay on topic Greg... focus. 171 + 11 1/2 days plus 18 + 11 1/2 days 11+11 1/2 days = 11 TOTAL days, 11+18= 29 29+171=200 days between 3/23 and 1/12/54

The FBI says there are 200 days of school in THAT time period which Oswald either attended or was absent.

We are not talking about PRIOR to 3/23 Greg... we are authenticating the report below.... which includes the 9/14/53 thru 1/12/54 (62 8/2 + 3 8/2) added to the 109 3/2 and 15 3/2.

There are only 210 TOTAL weekdays during that period. Now one last time, show us how 200 days of records fit into these 210 days of possible attendance...

Got it, mate?

Who gives a rats what the FBI wrote in a report except you because you think you can use it to come up with voodoo maths? The actual source material is all that matters.

[David Josephs]

ok... source materials...

200 days is exactly what the "source materials" say...

Jon...

""171 + 11 1/2 days plus 18 + 11 1/2 days 11+11 1/2 days = 11 TOTAL days,"

If you read the FBI report highlighted in yellow this it what it says... 171 and 11 half days attended, 18 and 11 half days absent for a total of 200 days of school.

11 half days plus 11 half days is 11 whole days on which that occurs

Greg says to use the source materials which I posted above which I believe is a WCR version...

109 and 3 half days plus 62 and 8 half days = 171 and 11 half days

15 and 3 half days plus 3 and 8 half days = 18 and 11 half days

added together we also get 200 days of school according to the school records above as presented by the FBI.

how GP can turn that simple fact into weeks long crusade is to be commended.

At the exact moment when other facts offered in the evidence suggest the existence of a smaller version of Lee Harvey who gets into trouble and has no southern accent to be heard

these records contradict on which PS44 he may have attended, and whose attendance all these jumbled numbers represents.

You see, once the FBI acquired original school records all bets are off... there is simply no way to know whether a copy of an original that is now gone, is authentic.. Sadly, by 1963 the FBI's evidence could not be trusted.

.

Greg... I don't think these are the "original" source materials either.. you need to consider that the 109 days and such from 3/23 to 6/29 was entered by a NYC school administrator prior to the next year's numbers.. in the real records.

No NYC educator/record keeper in their right mind puts a number like that to explain that semester's attendance for that boy... no mention of his having been to Youth House yet Trinity and a PS school farther from his home than was PS44 is written in. Huge gaps of none attendance and confusion in the courts

So why Greg... the more important question is why are these records important enough in the first place they need to be forged?.... .

you contend these records are those of a single boy... again, why are they needed in the first place. The FBI could easily have looked back into a "citizen's" history and get their school records.

It is not until testimony, photographs, and evidence contradicts the records acquired and provided. Just like everywhere else. that many little things becomes a bigger thing.

I'm done with the hostilities with you Greg... you want to make it your mission, great, the more attention, the more minds posting and researching the better.

I see things you don't and you see those I don't... let's see if we can cease hostilities with the same zeal as we entered into them.

Happy Father's Day anyone and everyone in that role

[Larry Hancock]

David, your mention of the FBI and records falsification brought something to mind....I have read Armstrong's book, at the moment it is on loan and I surely can't pretend to remember the bulk of its detail. But your remark made me wonder about the following - does John address the issues below:

Assuming that there was an intensely secret and covert dual identity project launched by the CIA it would surely be extremely compartmentalized even within the Agency. And I have no doubt any such secret would be even more closely kept after the assassination. We know that on even comparatively minor things such as a relationship with Kostikov, CIA officers lied internally, refusing to acknowledge it - when caught on it later they claimed legal authority given Agency secrecy rules, even to an internal investigation, and that was accepted. Also, we know that generally the CIA was less than likely to share important intel with the FBI, as Hoover well knew. So the question is, why would the FBI care about falsifying records relating to two Oswald's, why, how and when would they even know there were two Oswalds and if they were informed about that following the assassination, are there any indications that they were actually directed to cover up a top secret CIA activity? Hoover had been perfectly ready to bust CIA chops on things like the Roselli/Castro plot, even alerting RFK to it - so did Armstrong find any indication of how the FBI was brought in to cover for the CIA following the assassination?

[Steven Gaal]

David, your mention of the FBI and records falsification brought something to mind....I have read Armstrong's book, at the moment it is on loan and I surely can't pretend to remember the bulk of its detail. But your remark made me wonder about the following - does John address the issues below:

Assuming that there was an intensely secret and covert dual identity project launched by the CIA it would surely be extremely compartmentalized even within the Agency. And I have no doubt any such secret would be even more closely kept after the assassination. We know that on even comparatively minor things such as a relationship with Kostikov, CIA officers lied internally, refusing to acknowledge it - when caught on it later they claimed legal authority given Agency secrecy rules, even to an internal investigation, and that was accepted. Also, we know that generally the CIA was less than likely to share important intel with the FBI, as Hoover well knew. So the question is, why would the FBI care about falsifying records relating to two Oswald's, why, how and when would they even know there were two Oswalds and if they were informed about that following the assassination, are there any indications that they were actually directed to cover up a top secret CIA activity? Hoover had been perfectly ready to bust CIA chops on things like the Roselli/Castro plot, even alerting RFK to it - so did Armstrong find any indication of how the FBI was brought in to cover for the CIA following the assassination?

Gee Mr. Hancock if the FBI used LHO in someway (and the CIA would know it since they are the main people using LHO) Its a standoff via FBI & CIA and thus both cover up & fake/remove evidence to create the LHO patsy legend. GAAL

[Larry Hancock]

Actually I was looking for something a little deeper than that Steven, and specifically something from John's work - possibly with a bit of detail.

[Greg Parker]

added together we also get 200 days of school according to the school records above as presented by the FBI.

how GP can turn that simple fact into weeks long crusade is to be commended.

The FBI report has you all confused. Again, who gives a rats about the maths used by the FBI. What the hell do you think it means anyway?

I am saying to you (again) that if you just look at the source material, and do some counting with a calendar, the school documents tally correctly.

The 52-53 School year. Sept 1952 - June 1953.

Trinity

9 days attendance + 6 days absence (period of enrolment 9/8/52 - 9/26/52 = 15 school days which matches total of both figures)

PS 117

15 days attendance + 47 days absence + 2 part days attendance and 2 part days absence (period of enrolment 9/30/52 - 1/10/53 = 64 school days which matches total of all figures)

PS 44

109 days attendance + 15 days absence at Youth House + 3 part days attendance + 3 part days absence (period of enrolment 3/23/53 - 9/11/53 = approximately 127 to 129 depending on number of festive days off - less 55 summer recess = approximately 72 school days. That is where the confusion is coming in. They have simply included summer recess in days attended column. If you want to posit that they should not have done this unless he attended Summer School, please provide the records of another child from New York circa 1953 where those 55 days are accounted for differently.

[Steven Gaal]

Larry Hancock, on 20 Jun 2015 - 7:27 PM, said:

David, your mention of the FBI and records falsification brought something to mind....I have read Armstrong's book, at the moment it is on loan and I surely can't pretend to remember the bulk of its detail. But your remark made me wonder about the following - does John address the issues below:

Assuming that there was an intensely secret and covert dual identity project launched by the CIA it would surely be extremely compartmentalized even within the Agency. And I have no doubt any such secret would be even more closely kept after the assassination. We know that on even comparatively minor things such as a relationship with Kostikov, CIA officers lied internally, refusing to acknowledge it - when caught on it later they claimed legal authority given Agency secrecy rules, even to an internal investigation, and that was accepted. Also, we know that generally the CIA was less than likely to share important intel with the FBI, as Hoover well knew. So the question is, why would the FBI care about falsifying records relating to two Oswald's, why, how and when would they even know there were two Oswalds and if they were informed about that following the assassination, are there any indications that they were actually directed to cover up a top secret CIA activity? Hoover had been perfectly ready to bust CIA chops on things like the Roselli/Castro plot, even alerting RFK to it - so did Armstrong find any indication of how the FBI was brought in to cover for the CIA following the assassination?

==========================================================================

Gee Mr. Hancock if the FBI used LHO in someway (and the CIA would know it since they are the main people using LHO) Its a standoff via FBI & CIA and thus both cover up & fake/remove evidence to create the LHO patsy legend. GAAL

===================

Actually I was looking for something a little deeper than that Steven, and specifically something from John's work - possibly with a bit of detail. Hancock

####################

####################

ON PAGE 894 H & L (paraphrase)

===================

end LHO 1st interrogation FBI Hosty approached by FBI CI agent who ordered him no further discussion with Oz and conduct no investigation into Oz background.

Armstrong speculates Oz was started as PSI when Oz (Harvey) in Soviet Union. GAAL

Edited June 21, 2015 by Steven Gaal

[Larry Hancock]

Steven, that incident, if true, has nothing to do with the CIA, Bureau counter intelligence is a totally different matter and of course speculation is just that. Hosty himself received no such broad orders from his supervisor, according to his own statements and his own book - what he was ordered to do was destroy evidence of certain FBI contact with Oswald and that would be a different matter entirely, having to do with the FBI and certainly not the CIA. It would have nothing to do with a Bureau level effort to destroy Oswald's life records to cover up a secret CIA project. Still if you could name the FBI CI guy who John references and give a source for that exchange with Hosty it would be interesting and we know enough about the FBI figures involved that it might be a lead.

[Steven Gaal]

Steven, that incident, if true, has nothing to do with the CIA, Bureau counter intelligence is a totally different matter and of course speculation is just that. Hosty himself received no such broad orders from his supervisor, according to his own statements and his own book - what he was ordered to do was destroy evidence of certain FBI contact with Oswald and that would be a different matter entirely, having to do with the FBI and certainly not the CIA. It would have nothing to do with a Bureau level effort to destroy Oswald's life records to cover up a secret CIA project. Still if you could name the FBI CI guy who John references and give a source for that exchange with Hosty it would be interesting and we know enough about the FBI figures involved that it might be a lead.

The FBI and CIA relationships can be a tricky problem. Belmont went to the HOOVER INSTITUTE in 1965 and sat with John Dulles on the board (and a Tenneco head // TSBD Elsie Dorman son got job Tenneco)

• I recall its "The Men Who Kiled Kennedy" (Nigel Turner) Hosty interview as source. GAAL
• see page 4 Dorman son http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/M%20Disk/Mack%20Gary%20Cover-up/Item%2015.pdf
• http://www.walkersresearch.com/profilePages/Show_Executive_Title/Executiveprofile/J/James_H_Dorman_100022310.html
• https://theredpillguide.wordpress.com/tag/occidental-petroleum-and-tenneco/

Edited June 21, 2015 by Steven Gaal

[David Josephs]

added together we also get 200 days of school according to the school records above as presented by the FBI.

how GP can turn that simple fact into weeks long crusade is to be commended.

The FBI report has you all confused. Again, who gives a rats about the maths used by the FBI. What the hell do you think it means anyway?

I am saying to you (again) that if you just look at the source material, and do some counting with a calendar, the school documents tally correctly.

The 52-53 School year. Sept 1952 - June 1953.

Trinity

9 days attendance + 6 days absence (period of enrolment 9/8/52 - 9/26/52 = 15 school days which matches total of both figures)

PS 117

15 days attendance + 47 days absence + 2 part days attendance and 2 part days absence (period of enrolment 9/30/52 - 1/10/53 = 64 school days which matches total of all figures)

PS 44

109 days attendance + 15 days absence at Youth House + 3 part days attendance + 3 part days absence (period of enrolment 3/23/53 - 9/11/53 = approximately 127 to 129 depending on number of festive days off - less 55 summer recess = approximately 72 school days. That is where the confusion is coming in. They have simply included summer recess in days attended column. If you want to posit that they should not have done this unless he attended Summer School, please provide the records of another child from New York circa 1953 where those 55 days are accounted for differently.

Thru January 12, 1954 Greg... Both the school records and FBI report extend thru 1/12/54 when he supposedly went to Beauregard...

why you stop at at 9/11/53 is where you are falling short. The semesters ends june 29th as you pointed out... there is nothing to count in the summer... no school in the world counts unattended summer vacation as potential school days attended... call your own board of Ed and check your local school records officials... they will tell you the same.

Asking for other student's private records will not happen and is yet another FBI tactic .. I've made the same argument about the rifle records...

I dont need to show you records for summer when common sense or a call to your school board will do... You yourself argue there are 180-190 days of school to attend in any given year...

That's without summer school Greg. you're grasping at straws and you keep coming up with the short stick...

The excel table with all the dates is not hard to follow and counts EVERY day... even WITH summer it does not add to 200 of 210 days...

nice try though...

[Larry Hancock]

Thanks Kathy, I doubt that would end up going much further, good to know the source though. Perhaps David will come in with something more definitive linking a CIA project to FBI destruction or fabrication of Oswald history documents. All I can see is that up to the time of the assassination, the Bureau was very much interested in his background and trying to get a handle on it, especially the New Orleans office. I think its fair to say the the two agencies kept as much information from each other as they shared, so if they suddenly began working in tandem on suppressing Oswald's try background the day after the assassination, that would be really interesting.

[Steven Gaal]

Larry,

I checked my H&L on 894, and it says, footnote No 80, "Nigel Turner, "The Men Who Killed Kennedy," interview of James Hosty. That's all it says. I don't remember which part (of TMWKK) has his interview in it, but I'm bettin' he doesn't state who it was there either.

Also, Steven, please forgive me, but what does the Tenneco thing have to do with Hosty's statement about the FBI Counterintelligent agent?

Larry Hancock, on 21 Jun 2015 - 06:46 AM, said:

Steven, that incident, if true, has nothing to do with the CIA, Bureau counter intelligence is a totally different matter and of course speculation is just that. Hosty himself received no such broad orders from his supervisor, according to his own statements and his own book - what he was ordered to do was destroy evidence of certain FBI contact with Oswald and that would be a different matter entirely, having to do with the FBI and certainly not the CIA. It would have nothing to do with a Bureau level effort to destroy Oswald's life records to cover up a secret CIA project. Still if you could name the FBI CI guy who John references and give a source for that exchange with Hosty it would be interesting and we know enough about the FBI figures involved that it might be a lead.// HANCOCK

===========================

HANCOCK IS TALKING ABOUT FBI CIA RELATIONSHIPS and coverup. IM POINTING OUT RELATIONS POST ASSASSINATION ARE COMPLEX VIA PAYOFFS and WOULD MOTIVATE A COVERUP gaal

The FBI and CIA relationships can be a tricky problem. Belmont went to the HOOVER INSTITUTE in 1965 and sat with John Dulles on the board (and also sat a Tenneco head) // TSBD Elsie Dorman son got job at Tenneco. BELMONT IS GIVEN A POST ASSASSINATION PAYOFF . (ISNT THAT CLEAR KATHY ?? ) THEN I MENTION DORMAN'S SON GIVEN A EXECUTIVE JOB. THE SON IS GIVEN A POST ASSASSINATION PAYOFF. // gaal

#######################################################################################

Mr. Hancock WHO STOPS (FOR OFF RECORD) THE ROBERT OSWALD WC INTERVIEW WHEN STRIPLING IS BROUGHT UP BY BROTHER ROBERT ??

ANSWER ALLEN DULLES.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Steven Gaal

[David Josephs]

David, your mention of the FBI and records falsification brought something to mind....I have read Armstrong's book, at the moment it is on loan and I surely can't pretend to remember the bulk of its detail. But your remark made me wonder about the following - does John address the issues below:

Assuming that there was an intensely secret and covert dual identity project launched by the CIA it would surely be extremely compartmentalized even within the Agency. And I have no doubt any such secret would be even more closely kept after the assassination. We know that on even comparatively minor things such as a relationship with Kostikov, CIA officers lied internally, refusing to acknowledge it - when caught on it later they claimed legal authority given Agency secrecy rules, even to an internal investigation, and that was accepted. Also, we know that generally the CIA was less than likely to share important intel with the FBI, as Hoover well knew.

So the question is,

why would the FBI care about falsifying records relating to two Oswald's,

why, how and when would they even know there were two Oswalds and if they were informed about that following the assassination,

are there any indications that they were actually directed to cover up a top secret CIA activity?

Hoover had been perfectly ready to bust CIA chops on things like the Roselli/Castro plot, even alerting RFK to it - so did Armstrong find any indication of how the FBI was brought in to cover for the CIA following the assassination?

Good morning Larry,

I'll do the best I can here... and will talk with John to see how I can improve upon it.

From what I can tell we do not have a "reason" in the evidence, from Hoover... in fact we have that statement by him in Jan 64 where he acknowledges their double dealing in Mexico... and yet still helped cover it all up.

If there is no Harvey/FBI connection there is no need to cover for the CIA (but then again Larry, how much did the FBI expose ANY CIA activities to the CIA's detriment in this case?) unless we are talking much bigger issues and agreements... Can we agree that the FBI/CIA were not making the important decisions but simply carrying them out?... if we agree that orders came from higher up, Hoover would simply have to go along to keep his job, power and influence - at least what they would let him keep.

The FBI was focused on removing any historical conflicts... yet they left little evidence related to the info they gathered... no word on Stripling, Pfisterer's, etc...

no word on the conflict between PS44's. OR why he would have even been entered into PS117 after their move... etc...

John Ely on the WC was given the task of compiling info on Oswald's background... p56* of H&L discusses how he finds out by March that the FBI has done virtually nothing in their reporting to show they investigated anything about his childhood... that Life is in the lead on this info as they've been in virtually every area...

As he proceeds with his task he discovers that all the NYC school records are copies - while the trail of the originals ends with SAIC Malone

In preparation for the testimony of Marguerite Oswald in February 1964, the Warren Commission requested Oswald's original New York school and court records

from Mayor Wagner of New York City. On February 4, Miss Bernice McCrae of the Mayors office spoke with Judge Kelley, who advised that she had given the original

records to SAIC John Malone. Miss McCrae then telephoned the FBI's New York Office. She asked if the original records in the Oswald file had, in fact, been turned over to the Warren Commission. Miss McCrae never received an answer. Later that afternoon she wrote a letter on behalf of Mayor Wagner to Mr. Rankin of Warren Commission which stated, "I am attaching to this letter copies of the school records ....

Judge Florence Kelley informed me she turned over all original records in the possession of the Family Court dealing with the case of Lee Harvey Oswald to John F. Malone, Assistant Director in Charge of the New York City office of the FBI."42 There is no evidence or documentation whatsoever that Malone turned the original court file over to the Warren Commission.

On February 7, at 3:37 pm, FBI Inspector J. R. Malley telephoned the FBI's New York office and spoke to the Assistant Special Agent in Charge, W. M. Alexander, about the original court records. Malley advised that FBI headquarters in Washington had no information that indicated the original documents had been received from New

York and he asked Alexander to check further.

At 3:45 pm Alexander telephoned Malley and advised that SAIC Malone. his supervisor. had photographed the entire file and that copies of the file had been sent to FBI headquarters in Washington. Alexander said there was no record that photographs were sent to FBI headquarters, but that additional photographs of the file were available. Malley then asked that two copies of the photographs be sent immediately to his attention at FBI Headquarters in Washington.

As John says through out the book, as well as the HSCA handwriting experts, copies are the easiest way to forge documents since they cannot be examined for many of the key identifiers originals offer. When the FBI has originals which disappear in favor of copies which are in conflict with the real world... further investigation is warranted.

Whether the FBI discovered H&L possibilities after the fact or knew at some point along the way, back to the inception... is one of those mysteries that will be most difficult to unravel. Hoover seems to be hinting about it... and wouldn't the FBI be watch-list agency #1 on a commie defector returning with a wife and child and settling back into the US?

The FBI could know every little thing about a citizen... it's not until March 64 that his life story is investigated yet they are Pfisterer's the week after the assassination...

*After the assassination the Warren Commission assigned a young staff attorney,

John Hart Ely, to locate, gather, and organize information on the background of Lee

Harvey Oswald and his family. Ely, like so many US citizens in the early 1960's, trusted

our government and the FBI.

Ely was a young attorney, not an investigator, and depended upon the FBI to

interview Oswald's friends, classmates and relatives, and furnish their reports to the

Commission. A few months into his work, after receiving only a handful of FBI reports

relating to Oswald's background and early life, Ely became concerned. He communicated

his concerns about the FBI's apparent lack of investigation into Oswald's background

with fellow Warren Commission attorneys.

A short while later John Ely read articles in Life Magazine and found that reporters

had interviewed Oswald's grammar school classmates in Fort Worth. He could

not understand why the FBI had not interviewed those same people and began to realize

that the FBI had not conducted a thorough investigation into Oswald's background.

Ely compiled a list of 13 people who had been interviewed by Life Magazine

and, on March 20, 1964, wrote a memo to Wesley J. Liebeler. Ely wrote, "once again let

56

me urge that we should not have to rely upon Life Magazine for such a list. The FBI

should undertake a systematic investigation and interview of Oswald's closest school

friends."26 Copies of the memo were sent to Warren Commission Attorneys Rankin,

Willens, Jenner and Meek. 53-02

Ely continued to gather FBI reports, Warren Commission testimony, Commission

documents, Secret Service reports, etc. in an attempt to piece together the life and

background of Lee Harvey Oswald and his family. Ely wrote hundreds of pages of

memorandums which were used in preparing the Warren Report, that are now located

in the National Archives.

Assembling, sorting, analyzing, and writing memorandums and a final report on

Oswald's background left Ely little time to resolve discrepancies. From his memorandums

it is apparent that Ely was aware of certain discrepancies in Oswald's life, but it

is not known if he realized their significance or made any attempts to resolve them.

One discrepancy known to Ely is contained in a letter written by Dr. Milton

Kurian, a New York Psychiatrist and former president of the American Psychiatric Association,

to Jackie Kennedy after the assassination. 53-03 Dr. Kurian told Mrs. Kennedy

that while working with the New York Court system, in March 1953, he interviewed

young Oswald in his office. When John Ely reviewed the letter, he realized that Dr.

Kurian had interviewed Oswald several weeks before Oswald appeared in court and was

remanded to the Youth House.

Ely wrote, "he (Kurian) states that the interview (with Oswald) occurred toward

the end of March, 1953; however, in view of the fact that he refers to a report from Youth

House which had been prepared prior to his seeing the boy, it must have been later in

that year."27 Ely, without ever contacting or interviewing Dr. Kurian, concluded the

doctor must be in error and did no further checking. Had Ely telephoned Dr. Kurian,

the good doctor could have told him about his meeting with Lee Harvey Oswald. Ely

should have made the call.

NOTE: If Ely did not have the time to interview Kurian, he could have asked the FBI

to interview him.

In 1964 Ely wrote a 26-page memorandum about Oswald's life from 12/26/42 to

9/28/56.28 The memorandum contained information from Oswald's interviews with probation

officer John Carro, Psychiatrist Renatus Hartogs, social worker Evelyn Strickman,

psychologist Irving Sokolow, and staff reports from Youth House, but did not mention Dr.

Kurian.

It is difficult to understand why Ely would not be interested in the professional

opinion of a New York psychiatrist who was the past president of the American Psychiatric

Association, and had interviewed young Oswald in 1953. Ely never bothered to

telephone or contact Dr. Kurian, even though Kurian's letter, stating clearly that he had

interviewed Oswald, was in his file

[Larry Hancock]

Thanks David, I guess about all I can do is give some comment on the following:

"If there is no Harvey/FBI connection there is no need to cover for the CIA (but then again Larry, how much did the FBI expose ANY CIA activities to the CIA's detriment in this case?) unless we are talking much bigger issues and agreements... Can we agree that the FBI/CIA were not making the important decisions but simply carrying them out?... if we agree that orders came from higher up, Hoover would simply have to go along to keep his job, power and influence - at least what they would let him keep. The FBI was focused on removing any historical conflicts..."

.........................

Actually the FBI effectively closed down several conspiracy leads that the CIA, or at least certain CIA stations and officers were reporting. The most prominent being the Gilberto Alverado story out of Mexico City; the FBI essentially deconstructed that whole thing - in a manner which should have been pretty embarrassing for the officers involved given that it was so inherently weak and internally inconsistent to begin with....actually that was just good investigative work although you could say it falls under the general category of a high level directive to shut down any lead not pointing specifically to Oswald as the long shooter.

On another point, SOP for the Bureau is and remains that of an investigative arm for the prosecution, true this was pretty unique since in a way they were simply preparing a report but that is consistent. The Bureau only does deep research when they are trying to solve a crime; when they have a suspect in hand, and crime scene evidence in hand, they focus entirely on building a case. After the first 24 or 48 hours it does not surprise me at all if they didn't do any deep background work on Oswald and I honestly don't see why they would concern themselves with his personal history beyond the report they were preparing....and that would focus on recent history, not his youth.

Also, if Oswald was part of some extremely sophisticated double identity thing, I would expect the CIA to have managed and sanitized the records long before. They are very good at that sort of thing. Leaving loose ends all over the place would speak to extremely bad tradecraft in one of the areas they do some of their best work, especially if the dual identity thing were part of some high value operation. Its hard for me to see going to all the trouble to create dual identifies without having some mission or use in mind.

So, even though I strongly believe that ordered to suppress a broad conspiracy investigation, as well as evidence of conspiracy, were coming from the top, with Oswald dead on Sunday, I actually don't know why anybody would spend any further time mucking about with his history, including forging pieces of it. If anybody would go back to clean up the conflicts, it would be the CIA not the Bureau - why would anybody even indicated to them there were conflicts at all. That would just get Hoover collecting dirt for later use. Clearly he came to feel that the CIA had withheld or even fed false information to the Bureau in regard to Oswald in Mexico, but that's a separate story and simply confirmed his general attitude about not trusting them.

So, I guess I can see the FBI rushing around madly the first day or so collecting any and everything they could about Oswald - primarily to expose him as perhaps a deep Soviet agent, a Castro agent etc. But by the end of the weekend I think there marching orders were clear and that was to write a report....

All of which leads me back to what I was thinking about in the first place, and that is whether or not John has developed a scenario/time line for when and who actually altered documents or prepared new ones to cover up the dual identity project - which I assume he thinks would have been CIA originated, but I might not even be right about that, just don't recall and I've loaned out his book to someone else.

[Greg Parker]

T

hru January 12, 1954 Greg... Both the school records and FBI report extend thru 1/12/54 when he supposedly went to Beauregard...

why you stop at at 9/11/53 is where you are falling short. The semesters ends june 29th as you pointed out... there is nothing to count in the summer... no school in the world counts unattended summer vacation as potential school days attended... call your own board of Ed and check your local school records officials... they will tell you the same.

Asking for other student's private records will not happen and is yet another FBI tactic .. I've made the same argument about the rifle records...

I dont need to show you records for summer when common sense or a call to your school board will do... You yourself argue there are 180-190 days of school to attend in any given year...

That's without summer school Greg. you're grasping at straws and you keep coming up with the short stick...

The excel table with all the dates is not hard to follow and counts EVERY day... even WITH summer it does not add to 200 of 210 days...

nice try though...

I stop there because that is the end of the school year.

The 53-54 school year - or the PS44 start to it shows...

73 days attendance and absences from 9/14/53.

I count the number of available school days between then and the end of of December as being 81. I could be out because I might be missing one or two holiday days.

I can't locate anything giving the date he last attended, but really all it means to me is that he actually stopped going around mid-December - and I believe that may actually have been the case. I checked the manuscript of my first volume to see if I found it then, but what i wrote was that he left in December or early January. That was based on Lana Greenberg's memory of taking a note to school for Marguerite saying they had left. She couldn't pin down the exact time - only saying it was Dec or Jan.

Forget the godamn FBI report,. You are just using it to support that some sort of hocus-pocus happened with the records - but can't even explain what your alleged discrepancy means.

The figures for 52-53 add up correctly. The Figures for the balance of his time at PS44 probably do, but without having an exact end date, it's impossible to be 100% certain.