Joseph McBride, Into the Nightmare: My Search for the Killers of President John F. Kennedy and Officer J. D. Tippit (2013)

[Guest Robert Morrow]

I doubt you have read my book, but you still call it "incredible."

What I said was "incredible" was your claim that you have "exonerated" Lee Harvey Oswald in "both shootings" (JFK's and Tippit's):

"I identify possible suspects in both shootings and exonerate

others, including Oswald." -- Joseph McBride

Yes, it is indeed my opinion that the above quote uttered on this forum by Mr. McBride is "incredible". In fact, given the evidence (which I am more than a tad bit familiar with myself), such a statement about Lee Harvey Oswald being "exonerated" in EITHER of those two 11/22/63 shootings is not only "incredible" -- it's impossible (particularly Tippit's murder).

Because the murderers of John Kennedy were running the non-investigation into his death, what you think is "evidence" is not evidence. The evidentiary record of the JFK assassination is completely corrupted. Asking LBJ and Hoover, 2 perps, to investigate the murder of John Kennedy is like asking John Gotti to investigate a mob slaying. Real evidence was destroyed or ignored (the Zapruder film showing a head kill shot from the front, a prime example), fake evidence was created left and right (CE 399, a perfect example of that - there are bullet fragments sprayed all over the forged x-rays of JFK's head; yet CE 399 is supposed to have done such massive damage to 2 men and it is only warped a tad??)

The witness interviews by the FBI and Warren Commisssion, especially the ones done further away from 11/22/63 simply can not be trusted. These interviews are warped; testimony changed, witnesses coached, words put in their mouths, threats made to witnesses (witness Arlen Specter's terrorizing of Jean Hill; the FBI suborning perjury of Kenny O'Donnell) - I wonder how many "witnesses" went through the psychological FBI waterboarding until the FBI got the answers it wanted. Additionally, Marina Oswald, surrounded by US intelligence, yet another prime example of manufactured non-evidence spewing from the mouth of a witness (Oswald wanting to kill Nixon a most prime example; Edwin Walker shooting a close second). There is a reason Marina Oswald hated her "interpreter" Ilya Mamantov, a man provided to her by Jack Crichton, of US Army intelligence and a business partner of Clint Murchison, who was inner circle LBJ and whose family danced for joy on the grave of John Kennedy. Mamantov would always paint Oswald in the worst possible light in his "translations" of Marina's words.

The evidentiary record of the JFK assassination is a rotting pile of refuse. Caveat emptor!

Edited July 25, 2013 by Robert Morrow

[David Von Pein]

Because the murderers of John Kennedy were running the non-investigation into his death, what you think is "evidence" is not evidence. The evidentiary record of the JFK assassination is completely corrupted.

Yeah, sure Bob. Sure. And LBJ had his sister killed too. Right?

But I'll remind you that it was the Dallas Police Department (not the FBI, not LBJ, not the Warren Commission, not the Secret Service, and not Mother Teresa) who collected and initially handled a large portion of the physical evidence in the JFK and Tippit murder investigations.

Yes, the SS initially handled CE399 and the bullet fragments in the limousine, but it was the DPD who did the initial handling and collecting of virtually everything else, including the Carcano rifle, the three shells in the Sniper's Nest, the paper bag with LHO's prints on it, the Tippit shells, and the gun wrested out of Oswald's own hands.

And the DPD charged LHO with Tippit's murder at 7:10 PM on 11/22/63 because they had no evidence at all against him. Right, Bob?

And then, 4.5 hours later, the DPD charged LHO with JFK's murder, even though they had no evidence against him for that murder either. Right?

So, you must think the DPD was a HUGE part of the "plot", right? And they must have faked everything in my laundry list above, is that it? (In a word -- hogwash.)

And no conspiracy theorist in the world can explain Oswald's own actions inside the movie theater within the framework of the type of "Patsy" plot that is endorsed by many conspiracy authors (like Mr. McBride and Mr. DiEugenio and Mr. Garrison, et al).

Oswald's own behavior (plus his very incriminating statements uttered as he was being arrested) practically convicts him all by itself, even without factoring in the guns, the shells, the bullets, the prints, the paper bag, etc.

But the conspiracy theorists keep pretending Oswald was innocent and never fired a shot at anybody in 1963 -- even General Walker!

In other words -- the more evidence there is against the proverbial patsy, the more innocent he apparently becomes in the eyes of many conspiracy believers.

But those CTers fail to realize (or fail to admit to themselves) that not ONE single piece of evidence that hangs Oswald has been proven to be "fake" or "manufactured". Not one. But the mere suspicion that the evidence has been tampered with seems to be enough to convince a lot of Internet CTers and authors that EVERY PIECE of the evidence is phony.

And I ask (again) -- Is such a mindset regarding the evidence a reasonable one to possess, even with a less-than-perfect "chain of custody" attached to some of the evidence in this case?

And I'll state another obvious fact -- Even if there were no chain of custody at all for ANY of the evidence in this case, that would not automatically mean that any of that evidence is fake or planted.

Plus, can anyone even begin to imagine why the DPD would want to fake evidence in order to convict a completely innocent man named Oswald for the brutal murder of one of their very own police officers, all the while not giving a damn about tracking down J.D. Tippit's real killer?

Give the world a break from this lunacy, will ya.

Edited July 25, 2013 by David Von Pein

[Guest Robert Morrow]

You mean the Dallas Police who handed over what they called "evidence" to the FBI, run by LBJ's close friend Hoover, within hours? And who LBJ and Cliff Carter were telling what to do - for example Lyndon Johnson calling Will Fritz to quit interrogating Oswald and "you have your man?"

The Dallas police, who were very close to Jack Ruby - the same Jack Ruby who murdered Oswald while in Dallas Police Dept custody. The same Jack Ruby who Richard Nixon recognized on Sunday November 24th as "Johnson man" from the 1940's? And the same Dallas police who somehow let this patsy/"suspect" get murdered while in their custody?

I don't know if the Dallas Police Dept was involved in the JFK assassination, but post assassination the shot callers in Dallas - Clint Murchison, Sr., HL Hunt, and Lyndon Johnson easily manipulated them.

In fact manipulate is probably what happened - the Dallas police and the assistant DA were convinced because of the multiple shooters and multiple shots that there was a "communist conspiracy" but the real perps - i.e. Lyndon Johnson and friends - went nuts at the idea of "conspiracy" because they knew it would lead back to them. So LBJ and his proxies Cliff Carter insisted that "conspiracy talk" be verboten and Oswald be charged as a sole patsy assassin of John Kennedy.

Then "LBJ's man from the 1940's" Jack Ruby took care of business and the posthumous frame up was on. The Dallas Police were manipulated post assassination to give LBJ/CIA/military a "dead Red" and not a "talking head."

Here is a good book to read "The Man Who Killed Kennedy: the Case Against LBJ" by Roger Stone -

http://www.amazon.com/The-Man-Who-Killed-Kennedy/dp/1626363137/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1374725599&sr=8-1&keywords=the+man+who+killed+kennedy

Edited July 25, 2013 by Robert Morrow

[David Von Pein]

Geesh.

Edited July 25, 2013 by David Von Pein

[Pat Speer]

Let's get this thread back on track.

It's not a thread on the evidence against Oswald.

It's not a thread on the evidence against LBJ.

It's a thread on Joseph McBride's new book.

Now, I have a question for Joseph.

From what I can gather, you did a number of original interviews for this book. Were these interviews recorded? Are transcripts available?

[Joseph McBride]

I am going to be interviewed by Kennedy assassination and deep politics expert Len Osanic on his Black Op Radio show tonight, about my new book, INTO THE NIGHTMARE: MY SEARCH FOR THE KILLERS OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY AND OFFICER J. D. TIPPIT. The show runs from 6 to 7:30 PM PST, 9-10:30 EST. The show is archived on blackopradio.com.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Joseph McBride

[Joseph McBride]

My research materials are not available to the public at this time. I prefer people to read the book. Eventually

I expect to donate them to a library.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Joseph McBride

[William Kelly]

There is legal cause to convene a Dallas County Grand Jury to review the new witnesses and evidence, and Dallas D.A. Watkins should do it, but, like Garrison, or Sprague, Tanenbaum or any other honest and independent DA, he isn't strong enough, though he does have an assistant prosecutor who handles the cold cases, including all those that Henry Wade had convicted but were released on new DNA evidence. If the convicted suspects didn't commit those crimes, somebody else did, and this guy is swamped with unsolved cold cases.

But maybe, if "Into the Nightmare" can provide a hammer and some ammunition, the mere threat of Watkins convening a Tippit grand jury would spook the feds into getting into the game - and convening a federal grand jury in the district of North Texas. From what I understand, crimes committed in the air - like aboard Air Force One - are considered federal crimes and brought to federal court, and therefor a federal grand jury could also have jurisdiction, though not for the Tippit murder (unless it was connected to a conspiracy to kill the President).

We can argue about the details forever, but we only have a short time for the still living witnesses to be properly deposed under oath (and in secret), and the new evidence properly evaluated to see if there is anyone living who can be indicted for a crime related to the murder of Officer Tippit or the President.

Other books with solid evidence and new witness testimony have forced the law to act, when otherwise it wouldn't, and perhaps, just maybe Joe McBride's book could kick in that legal mechanism that needs a jump start to get the wheels of justice to begin moving.

Bill Kelly

I have not read the book yet, but am looking forward to it.

I ask, is the evidence and new witness statements in the book strong enough to reopen the Tippit case?

BK

[Joseph McBride]

There is legal cause to convene a Dallas County Grand Jury to review the new witnesses and evidence, and Dallas D.A. Watkins should do it, but, like Garrison, or Sprague, Tanenbaum or any other honest and independent DA, he isn't strong enough, though he does have an assistant prosecutor who handles the cold cases, including all those that Henry Wade had convicted but were released on new DNA evidence. If the convicted suspects didn't commit those crimes, somebody else did, and this guy is swamped with unsolved cold cases.

But maybe, if "Into the Nightmare" can provide a hammer and some ammunition, the mere threat of Watkins convening a Tippit grand jury would spook the feds into getting into the game - and convening a federal grand jury in the district of North Texas. From what I understand, crimes committed in the air - like aboard Air Force One - are considered federal crimes and brought to federal court, and therefor a federal grand jury could also have jurisdiction, though not for the Tippit murder (unless it was connected to a conspiracy to kill the President).

We can argue about the details forever, but we only have a short time for the still living witnesses to be properly deposed under oath (and in secret), and the new evidence properly evaluated to see if there is anyone living who can be indicted for a crime related to the murder of Officer Tippit or the President.

Other books with solid evidence and new witness testimony have forced the law to act, when otherwise it wouldn't, and perhaps, just maybe Joe McBride's book could kick in that legal mechanism that needs a jump start to get the wheels of justice to begin moving.

Bill Kelly

That might be worth doing. As you know, Dallas County now has an excellent DA, Craig Watkins,

who is rectifying many of Henry Wade's injustices. It would be up to Mr. Watkins whether to

reopen the case if he feels there is sufficient reason to do so. A grand jury could be convened. It is hard getting

convictions on cold cases going so far back, but perhaps not impossible.

[David Von Pein]

Is the evidence and new witness statements in the book strong enough to reopen the Tippit case?

That might be worth doing. As you know, Dallas County now has an excellent DA, Craig Watkins, who is rectifying many of Henry Wade's injustices. It would be up to Mr. Watkins whether to reopen the case if he feels there is sufficient reason to do so. A grand jury could be convened. It is hard getting convictions on cold cases going so far back, but perhaps not impossible.

Why on Earth would any sensible and rational District Attorney (or other court/law official) in Dallas County have any desire--or reason--to reopen the Tippit murder case when such overwhelming evidence exists that Lee Harvey Oswald--and only Oswald--was responsible for the death of Officer J.D. Tippit?

A D.A. would have to be totally off his rocker to just totally toss aside all the evidence brought forth by the DPD, the Warren Commission, and the HSCA that indicates beyond all possible doubt that the murder of Tippit was solved by 7:10 PM CST on the very day that murder occurred.

Just the suggestion of reopening the Tippit murder case (of all cases) is beyond laughable. It's farcical.

JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/J.D. Tippit

Edited July 27, 2013 by David Von Pein

[Ron Ecker]

I'm so tempted to get thrown off this forum.

[Pat Speer]

Is the evidence and new witness statements in the book strong enough to reopen the Tippit case?

That might be worth doing. As you know, Dallas County now has an excellent DA, Craig Watkins, who is rectifying many of Henry Wade's injustices. It would be up to Mr. Watkins whether to reopen the case if he feels there is sufficient reason to do so. A grand jury could be convened. It is hard getting convictions on cold cases going so far back, but perhaps not impossible.

Why on Earth would any sensible and rational District Attorney (or other court/law official) in Dallas County have any desire--or reason--to reopen the Tippit murder case when such overwhelming evidence exists that Lee Harvey Oswald--and only Oswald--was responsible for the death of Officer J.D. Tippit?

A D.A. would have to be totally off his rocker to just totally toss aside all the evidence brought forth by the DPD, the Warren Commission, and the HSCA that indicates beyond all possible doubt that the murder of Tippit was solved by 7:10 PM CST on the very day that murder occurred.

Just the suggestion of reopening the Tippit murder case (of all cases) is beyond laughable. It's farcical.

JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/J.D. Tippit

Re-opening a case does not mean tossing aside the evidence, but re-examining it. Oswald was never convicted in a court of law. Should new evidence emerge, or surface with the publication of Joseph's book, a re-examination should follow.

Just look at the Natalie Wood case. They assumed her death was an accident. But then the captain of the boat she fell from gave an interview in which he said she'd been fighting with her husband before she disappeared. That's new evidence. Thus, the case was re-opened.

[William Kelly]

Is the evidence and new witness statements in the book strong enough to reopen the Tippit case?

That might be worth doing. As you know, Dallas County now has an excellent DA, Craig Watkins, who is rectifying many of Henry Wade's injustices. It would be up to Mr. Watkins whether to reopen the case if he feels there is sufficient reason to do so. A grand jury could be convened. It is hard getting convictions on cold cases going so far back, but perhaps not impossible.

Why on Earth would any sensible and rational District Attorney (or other court/law official) in Dallas County have any desire--or reason--to reopen the Tippit murder case when such overwhelming evidence exists that Lee Harvey Oswald--and only Oswald--was responsible for the death of Officer J.D. Tippit?

A D.A. would have to be totally off his rocker to just totally toss aside all the evidence brought forth by the DPD, the Warren Commission, and the HSCA that indicates beyond all possible doubt that the murder of Tippit was solved by 7:10 PM CST on the very day that murder occurred.

Just the suggestion of reopening the Tippit murder case (of all cases) is beyond laughable. It's farcical.

JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/J.D. Tippit

Of course if Lee Harvey Oswald had been convicted in a court of law based on - in his words - the "so-called" evidence, then the case would be closed, but since there has not been anyone convicted in the murder of Tippit, then the legal avenue is open.

If the murder of Tippit is connected to the assassination of President Kennedy, and if it can be shown - determined that Oswald was not responsible for that murder, but was, as he claimed, framed and set up as the Patsy, as much of the evidence indicates, then we must also question the assertion Oswald was responsible for the Tippit murder as well.

Joe McBride is a responsible journalist - who applies journalistic standards - (like few others - Summers, Russell, Baker, Simpich), and has the capability to make such a case, but it is unlikely the Hate City District Attorney has the power to prosecute those who had the ability to kill the President and get away with it.

While Watkins has been working closely with the Innocence Project, and because Henry Wade kept evidence that includes DNA, more Dallas convicts have been freed than anywhere else, but those cold cases remain unsolved, and basically uninvestigated.

When a former Dallas Assistant DA and another prosecutor in an adjacent county were recently murdered, conspiracy was immediately suspected, and scrutiny focused on a radical white prison gang - scaring a federal attorney responsible for prosecuting them to resign - in fear for his life. He quit rather than do his job and prosecute political assassins. As it turned out, the killer was - a former employee of the prosecutor's office.

Joe too, risked his life just talking to these people - and DVP is probably right - what prosecutor in his right mind - those same lawyers who ala Cape fear a White Brotherhood prison gang, would take on the even more powerful gang of criminals who got away with killing the President?

Then again, the young, assistant DA in Mississippi, who found the rifle that was used to kill Medgar Evers - on his father-in-law's wall - successfully prosecuted Brian DeBeckwith, though that young DA was himself later prosecuted.

I know of a half-dozen still living Tippit witnesses who were not known to the Warren Commission, who could provide new testimony in the case, and lead to suspects other than Oswald, but the legal venue for such testimony can only be provided by the Dallas Police, Watkins or the cowardly federal attorneys of North Texas who would rather resign than prosecute.

When the Emmett Till bill forced the Justice Department to reinvestigate hundreds of mainly southern racist murders of the 50s-70s, they ended up writing letters of appology to the families of the victims, saying that they figured out who killed your husband/son, but the killer died of old age years ago.

That might not be the case with Tippit, whose killers could still be alive, or at least identified.

Edited July 27, 2013 by William Kelly

[Len Colby]

I had a revealing interview with Edgar Lee Tippit, the father of the late officer. The elder Tippit was a lively ninety when I interviewed him. He revealed to me that after his son's death, another Dallas police officer went to J. D.'s widow, Marie, and told her he and J. D. had been sent by the police to hunt down Oswald. Whether this was to capture him or kill him is not certain, but the evidence indicates that the latter is a strong possibility. This was at a time when Oswald's identity was not officially known to the DPD, although there is evidence indicating they knew about him and had fingered him as the patsy.

The other officer told Marie that he had not made it to the scene of the shooting because he became involved in an auto accident. This story had never been reported before, and Edgar Lee Tippit had

never been interviewed.

Back when you were writting for newspapers and magazines how do you think your editors would have reacted if you based part of a story on a 90 year-old man's recollection of a 2nd hand story he'd been told 30 years earlier?

[Pat Speer]

I had a revealing interview with Edgar Lee Tippit, the father of the late officer. The elder Tippit was a lively ninety when I interviewed him. He revealed to me that after his son's death, another Dallas police officer went to J. D.'s widow, Marie, and told her he and J. D. had been sent by the police to hunt down Oswald. Whether this was to capture him or kill him is not certain, but the evidence indicates that the latter is a strong possibility. This was at a time when Oswald's identity was not officially known to the DPD, although there is evidence indicating they knew about him and had fingered him as the patsy.

The other officer told Marie that he had not made it to the scene of the shooting because he became involved in an auto accident. This story had never been reported before, and Edgar Lee Tippit had

never been interviewed.

Back when you were writing for newspapers and magazines how do you think your editors would have reacted if you based part of a story on a 90 year-old man's recollection of a 2nd hand story he'd been told 30 years earlier?

Far less credible items make the papers all the time, Len. In this case, Joseph has told us his source, and we can judge the credibility of his source. That's usually not the case. A lot of the articles on the assassination I've read were taken straight out of Posner, or Bugliosi, and present false facts left and right.