William Kelly Posted August 20, 2013 Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 Here's a photo of the TSBD front stairs that go up to the Second Floor, and another photo that includes a door, heater pipes and a cigarette machine, that I can't identify, but is labeld TSBD first floor, and some floor diagrams. JFKCountercoup2: TSBD First Floor As for Ray's attempt to identify the original source of these questions, I want to know why the HSCA photo committee didn't review this issue, or the ARRB, both having done graphic professional analysis of other, less serious photo issues and identifications. Good luck with the door measurements, but I think that the second film of the man walking down the steps - should have a time attributed to it - and the figure further enhanced and details of the man brought out - is he wearing jeans - t-shirt under button shirt, white socks, does he have a coke in hand, etc,? Www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDccfK-RRE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted August 20, 2013 Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 Randy Sorensen sends along the following: I found the following pictures of the Texas School Book Depository building entryway that might be useful for starters: I send this to you because I have no other way to communicate with the forum. If you could forward these links to Mr. Hocking, I would appreciate it.Fairly recent picture http://0.tqn.com/d/dallas/1/0/y/3/-/-/01TexasSchoolBookDepository.JPG Early picture https://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/images/2/2c/Photo_wcd81-1_0097.jpg Early picture – close up https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?absPageId=349592 Thanks! Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Raymond Carroll Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 The discussion apparently started on Lancer, Circa 2009 http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,2881.msg54164.html#msg54164 Duncan: The link you posted is to your own forum, not to Lancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) ... Edited August 21, 2013 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Murphy Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) Carolyn Arnold insisted--to Anthony Summers, Earl Golz, Gary Mack and others--that she spotted Oswald in the second-floor lunchroom several minutes before the assassination. Now put the case that Arnold's claim is true and then read the following section of FBI agents Bookhout & Hosty's co-written first interrogation report (11/22/63): Oswald stated that he went to lunch at approximately noon and he claimed he ate his lunch on the first floor in the lunchroom; however he went to the second floor where the Coca-Cola machine was located and obtained a bottle of Coca-Cola for his lunch. Oswald claimed to be on the first floor when President John F. Kennedy passed this building. The startling possibility arises that Bookhout and Hosty are giving Oswald's three claims in simple chronological sequence: I went to lunch in the domino room Then I went up to the second-floor lunchroom and bought a coke Then I went back down to the first floor, which is where I was when the President passed the building Claim 1 comes with a precise location--the domino room--and is supported by Oswald's noticing two black co-workers passing through (i.e. Norman & Jarman coming in the back entrance of the first floor and proceeding across to the freight elevator) Claim 2 comes with a precise location--the second-floor lunchroom--and is supported by Carolyn Arnold's recollection Claim 3 comes without any precise location, a fact which just may be explained by the utterly calamitous location of the Prayer Man figure in Wiegman & Darnell. Did Lee Oswald offer Will Fritz a very precisely localised Claim 3 and were the details of this alibi-sealing claim suppressed? Edited August 20, 2013 by Sean Murphy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Raymond Carroll Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 (edited) As for Ray's attempt to identify the original source of these questions, I want to know why the HSCA photo committee didn't review this issue, or the ARRB, both having done graphic professional analysis of other, less serious photo issues and identifications. As for the HSCA, Blakey has my sympathy. He was given a pathetic budget and in fairness he hired Robert Groden. But he could not give Robert the resources and support he would have needed to make the kind of breakthrough we are witnessing here. Edited August 21, 2013 by J. Raymond Carroll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Raymond Carroll Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Is it fair to say, Sean that everyone in the TSBD doorway is an employee of the building? Can you, or anyone, see any strangers apart of course from Prayer Man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 (edited) Randy Sorensen sends along the following: I found the following pictures of the Texas School Book Depository building entryway that might be useful for starters: I send this to you because I have no other way to communicate with the forum. If you could forward these links to Mr. Hocking, I would appreciate it.Fairly recent picture http://0.tqn.com/d/dallas/1/0/y/3/-/-/01TexasSchoolBookDepository.JPG Early picture https://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/images/2/2c/Photo_wcd81-1_0097.jpg Early picture – close up https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?absPageId=349592 Thanks! Randy The first floor (or is it the second floor LOL) "lobby" (or "vestibule" ?) area: https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10896&relPageId=15 --Tommy Edited August 21, 2013 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 (edited) There is a very odd detail in Roy Truly's FBI interview report from the evening of the assassination: They saw no one there. Where? Why, just inside the front of the building. Ask yourself: Why is Truly even having to disclaim having seen 'someone' there? Doesn't it seem to you like he has been asked the question, Did you see 'anyone' there? Now what might have given the interviewing agents the very idea of asking Truly such a question? And why is the writer of the report making a point of including such a non-event in said report? Could it be that 'someone'--some significant third party--has been talking noisily about having seen Truly and an officer 'there', just inside the front of the building, just after the shooting? If so, then might that 'someone' be none other than the person we have been calling Prayer Man--a young white short-haired male, evidently a person employed in the TSBD building, who was at the front entrance during the shooting yet went oddly unnoticed by everyone else congregated there? Good observation. One wonders how many other instances there were of Truly "not-seeing someone", but failed to include in his report. The truth is, We know from the photo and film evidence that Truly and Baker would have passed right by Prayer Man (and numerous other people) as they entered the building. Saying "I saw no one there" is completely different from "I didn't see someone there." Jeez. --Tommy Edited August 21, 2013 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 [...] Good luck with the door measurements, but I think that the second film of the man walking down the steps - should have a time attributed to it - and the figure further enhanced and details of the man brought out - is he wearing jeans - t-shirt under button shirt, white socks, does he have a coke in hand, etc,? Www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDccfK-RREI wouldn't say Dear Mr. Kelly, I wouldn't say that the guy walking down the steps in that film is a "man," but a high school or college-aged "boy." --Tommy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted August 21, 2013 Author Share Posted August 21, 2013 [...] Good luck with the door measurements, but I think that the second film of the man walking down the steps - should have a time attributed to it - and the figure further enhanced and details of the man brought out - is he wearing jeans - t-shirt under button shirt, white socks, does he have a coke in hand, etc,? Www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDccfK-RREI wouldn't say Dear Mr. Kelly, I wouldn't say that the guy walking down the steps in that film is a "man," but a high school or college-aged "boy." --Tommy Mr. Tommy, but is it the same guy in the other film frames - the "Prayer Man"? And is it Oswald? They are the questions, BK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 (edited) [...] Good luck with the door measurements, but I think that the second film of the man walking down the steps - should have a time attributed to it - and the figure further enhanced and details of the man brought out - is he wearing jeans - t-shirt under button shirt, white socks, does he have a coke in hand, etc,? Www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDccfK-RREI wouldn't say Dear Mr. Kelly, I wouldn't say that the guy walking down the steps in that film is a "man," but a high school or college-aged "boy." --Tommy Mr. Tommy, but is it the same guy in the other film frames - the "Prayer Man"? And is it Oswald? They are the questions, BK Dear Mr. Kelly, In my opinion, the boy who may or may not be walking down the steps is not Oswald and is not "Prayer Man." Why do you think it is? Sincerely, --Tommy Edited August 21, 2013 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 Keep up the good work, guys. This thread is brilliant. I would caution everyone about trusting Holmes's account. We are not talking here about Sherlock. His claim that Baker told Oz "I'll deal with you later", implying that Oz disobeyed Baker's order to wait around is not supported by Baker or Truly, and we can be certain that A/ it never happened and B/ Oz never said it happened. Moreover, if we compare Holmes's report with Kelley's report of that final interview there are alarming discrepancies. I believe Kelley's report is an honest report (& not just because he has a namesake (without the e) on the forum), whereas Holmes appears to be confabulating, and including matters that were discussed in Friday and Saturday's interrogations, which he had no doubt been briefed about by his good friend Will Fritz. You're right about Holmes, Ray. His report was written weeks after the interview he'd witnessed, and was not based on any notes. It's obvious 1) his memory was not very good, and 2) he'd added in stuff he'd heard from others. One of the major embarrassments in Bugliosi's book, IMO, is his propping up of Holmes' report to claim Oswald admitted being on an upper floor at the time of the shooting. AS IF FRITZ WOULDN"T HAVE NOTICED SUCH A THING! LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Kelly Posted August 21, 2013 Author Share Posted August 21, 2013 [...] Good luck with the door measurements, but I think that the second film of the man walking down the steps - should have a time attributed to it - and the figure further enhanced and details of the man brought out - is he wearing jeans - t-shirt under button shirt, white socks, does he have a coke in hand, etc,? Www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDccfK-RREI wouldn't say Dear Mr. Kelly, I wouldn't say that the guy walking down the steps in that film is a "man," but a high school or college-aged "boy." --Tommy Mr. Tommy, but is it the same guy in the other film frames - the "Prayer Man"? And is it Oswald? They are the questions, BK Dear Mr. Kelly, In my opinion, the boy walking down the steps is not Oswald and is not "Prayer Man." Why do you think it is? Sincerely, --Tommy My question is the guy walking down the steps in the second film the same guy we are talking about - aka "Prayer Man," and if not why not? You say its not, and I say okay, why not? They have the same features, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted August 21, 2013 Share Posted August 21, 2013 (edited) [...] Good luck with the door measurements, but I think that the second film of the man walking down the steps - should have a time attributed to it - and the figure further enhanced and details of the man brought out - is he wearing jeans - t-shirt under button shirt, white socks, does he have a coke in hand, etc,? Www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDccfK-RREI wouldn't say Dear Mr. Kelly, I wouldn't say that the guy walking down the steps in that film is a "man," but a high school or college-aged "boy." --Tommy Mr. Tommy, but is it the same guy in the other film frames - the "Prayer Man"? And is it Oswald? They are the questions, BK Dear Mr. Kelly, In my opinion, the boy walking down the steps is not Oswald and is not "Prayer Man." Why do you think it is? Sincerely, --Tommy My question is the guy walking down the steps in the second film the same guy we are talking about - aka "Prayer Man," and if not why not? You say its not, and I say okay, why not? They have the same features, right? Dear Mr. Kelly, I've understood your question all along. Earlier you asked if the guy walking down the steps was Oswald and if he was also "Prayer Man." This is what you wrote: Mr. Tommy, but is it [the boy who may or may not be walking down the steps at 04:20] the same guy in the other film frames - the "Prayer Man"? And is it Oswald? They are the questions, BK No, I don't think the guy walking down the steps at 04:25 is Oswald. Oswald had a different hairstyle. Also, "College Boy" (the guy walking down the steps, Bill) seems to be wearing a casual jacket or a sweater and a white shirt with a collar, not a v-neck T-shirt like Oswald was wearing You claim that "Prayer Man" and "College Boy" have the same "features." Sure, PM and CB both seem to have the same basic body type, but neither Duncan's enhancement not the film is not sharp enough to distinguish facial features, IMHO. That glowing head back in the shadows on the left at :04:42 looks more like Oswald than "College Boy" does. Say, could "Glowing Head Man" be "Prayer Man" or Oswald? And what about the white flash behind the glowing head at 04:23? Could that be somebody drinking from a shiny bottle of Dr. Pepper? Sincerely, --Tommy Edited August 21, 2013 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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