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Oswald Leaving TSBD?


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#781 John Dolva

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 03:17 PM

"The location of every single TSBD employee (bar Oswald) has been established for the time of the assassination."

...

 

"we have just received startling confirmation that Prayer Man can only reasonably be Lee Oswald."



#782 Richard Hocking

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 03:29 PM

 

Major development.

Gary Mack has just emailed John Mytton, a LN poster at Duncan's forum:

 

While the image is an interesting find, the Prayer Man question has probably been answered.  I recently sent the Couch and Darnell frames to Buell Frazier and asked what he thought.  First, he wouldn’t confirm himself being on the top step because the image isn’t clear enough.  He then re-confirmed that Lovelady and Shelley were out on the steps with him, just as he has always said, but he couldn’t confirm Shelley, either, due to the image quality. 
 
Next I asked about Shelley’s appearance and learned he was a little taller than Lovelady (who was 5’8”), had red hair and a slender build.  When I asked if Shelley usually wore a coat and tie to work Buell said no, he “dressed daily in slacks and sport shirts.”  And he repeated that he, Lovelady and Shelley stayed on the steps for “a short time” after the last shot, but he didn’t estimate how long.
 
So unless Buell Frazier is still part of the cover-up plot, TSBD “Miscellaneous Department” manager William Shelley, by elimination, must be Prayer Man.  According to Shelley’s testimony, “I didn’t do anything for a minute” following the last shot, so the man was standing on the steps before, during and after the time Darnell and Couch filmed those brief scenes.
 
Gary Mack
 

 

**
 
This is a real breakthrough, and I for one am very grateful to Gary for taking the trouble to contact Buell Wesley Frazier.

Why is it a breakthrough?

Well, not because of the Shelley idea.
For Shelley's own testimony, and that of the person with him Billy Lovelady, rules him out as Prayer Man:

Mr. BALL - How did you happen to see Truly?
Mr. SHELLEY - We ran out on the island while some of the people that were out watching it from our building were walking back and we turned around and we saw an officer and Truly.
Mr. BALL - And Truly?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Did you see them go into the building?
MMr. SHELLEY - No; we didn't watch that long but they were at the first step like they were fixin' to go in.
Mr. BALL - Were they moving at the time, walking or running?
Mr. SHELLEY - Well, they were moving, yes.


Darnell shows Baker just a couple of seconds away from the building entrance.
Prayer Man is still standing up on the steps.
So Shelley is ruled out. Period.
(Unless, that is, someone wants to accuse him and Lovelady of lying in their WC testimony about their run out on to the 'island'. Who wants to go first?)

The reason Buell Wesley Frazier's response is a breakthrough is that Bill Shelley appears to be the only possibility BWF himself can offer when presented with the Prayer Man image. (Although it's not quite clear from Gary's message whether BWF himself nominated Shelley or whether that's Gary's own suggestion.) 
Given that he is not giving us some new revelation as to the presence of some hitherto unmentioned other person on the steps at that time (i.e. a stranger to the building), and given that Prayer Man cannot possibly be Shelley, we have just received startling confirmation that Prayer Man can only reasonably be Lee Oswald.

lFPHGbd.jpg

BWF probably knows it's Lee but--for the most understandable reasons in the world--cannot say so.
However, to give him credit, he's just done the next best thing.

 

Excellent that we finally have heard from Buell Frazier.  Would have been nice to see the actual correspondence between BWF and Gary.

 

But I agree, Sean.  BWF, who was standing a couple feet away at the time, has effectively limited the possibilities to Shelley and Lovelady.  A powerful statement against any other employee or any stranger being at Prayer Man's location.  And we have thoroughly covered the possibilities of either Shelley or Lovelady being PM previously.

 

This thread just got a turbo boost.

 

On a side note, this throws a knuckleball into the previous discussions concerning the identification of Shelley and Senkel  in the William Shelley thread.



#783 Steve Mcdonagh

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 07:30 PM

 

 

Major development.

Gary Mack has just emailed John Mytton, a LN poster at Duncan's forum:

 

While the image is an interesting find, the Prayer Man question has probably been answered.  I recently sent the Couch and Darnell frames to Buell Frazier and asked what he thought.  First, he wouldn’t confirm himself being on the top step because the image isn’t clear enough.  He then re-confirmed that Lovelady and Shelley were out on the steps with him, just as he has always said, but he couldn’t confirm Shelley, either, due to the image quality. 
 
Next I asked about Shelley’s appearance and learned he was a little taller than Lovelady (who was 5’8”), had red hair and a slender build.  When I asked if Shelley usually wore a coat and tie to work Buell said no, he “dressed daily in slacks and sport shirts.”  And he repeated that he, Lovelady and Shelley stayed on the steps for “a short time” after the last shot, but he didn’t estimate how long.
 
So unless Buell Frazier is still part of the cover-up plot, TSBD “Miscellaneous Department” manager William Shelley, by elimination, must be Prayer Man.  According to Shelley’s testimony, “I didn’t do anything for a minute” following the last shot, so the man was standing on the steps before, during and after the time Darnell and Couch filmed those brief scenes.
 
Gary Mack
 

 

**
 
This is a real breakthrough, and I for one am very grateful to Gary for taking the trouble to contact Buell Wesley Frazier.

Why is it a breakthrough?

Well, not because of the Shelley idea.
For Shelley's own testimony, and that of the person with him Billy Lovelady, rules him out as Prayer Man:

Mr. BALL - How did you happen to see Truly?
Mr. SHELLEY - We ran out on the island while some of the people that were out watching it from our building were walking back and we turned around and we saw an officer and Truly.
Mr. BALL - And Truly?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Did you see them go into the building?
MMr. SHELLEY - No; we didn't watch that long but they were at the first step like they were fixin' to go in.
Mr. BALL - Were they moving at the time, walking or running?
Mr. SHELLEY - Well, they were moving, yes.


Darnell shows Baker just a couple of seconds away from the building entrance.
Prayer Man is still standing up on the steps.
So Shelley is ruled out. Period.
(Unless, that is, someone wants to accuse him and Lovelady of lying in their WC testimony about their run out on to the 'island'. Who wants to go first?)

The reason Buell Wesley Frazier's response is a breakthrough is that Bill Shelley appears to be the only possibility BWF himself can offer when presented with the Prayer Man image. (Although it's not quite clear from Gary's message whether BWF himself nominated Shelley or whether that's Gary's own suggestion.) 
Given that he is not giving us some new revelation as to the presence of some hitherto unmentioned other person on the steps at that time (i.e. a stranger to the building), and given that Prayer Man cannot possibly be Shelley, we have just received startling confirmation that Prayer Man can only reasonably be Lee Oswald.

lFPHGbd.jpg

BWF probably knows it's Lee but--for the most understandable reasons in the world--cannot say so.
However, to give him credit, he's just done the next best thing.

 

Excellent that we finally have heard from Buell Frazier.  Would have been nice to see the actual correspondence between BWF and Gary.

 

But I agree, Sean.  BWF, who was standing a couple feet away at the time, has effectively limited the possibilities to Shelley and Lovelady.  A powerful statement against any other employee or any stranger being at Prayer Man's location.  And we have thoroughly covered the possibilities of either Shelley or Lovelady being PM previously.

 

This thread just got a turbo boost.

 

On a side note, this throws a knuckleball into the previous discussions concerning the identification of Shelley and Senkel  in the William Shelley thread.

 

Hi Guys

 

Are there any pictures, images or film of Shelley circa November 1963? Was he interviewed by any TV crew, snapped in a clear(ish) image or does Buell Wesley Frazier even have an old image of the two of them together around that time?

 

Sean, I have a couple of questions if you don’t mind.

 

After reviewing the Darnell film we can clearly see Baker running towards the steps at speed and apart from a lightly running lady in a dress no one else appears to be travelling or even reacting with anywhere near the same speed or purpose. From the speed of Bakers motion it stands to reason that unless he (Baker) suddenly slows down, pauses or stops when he reaches the steps of TSBD, his forward motion will likely carry him right up the steps and into the building. In fact this is the very reason I am convinced Baker enters the building alone and without Truly.

 

Now herein lays my question. PM man can clearly be seen standing towards the top left of the steps in a relatively consistent position and pose as we have seen him in earlier film/images as Baker reaches the bottom step. So if Baker does indeed continue his run up the steps he will surely pass PM man before entering the building. How does this fit into the sequence and timing of the Baker/Oswald encounter?

 

Could you please clarify or elaborate on how Oswald/PM, entering the building after Baker but before Truly (whom I presume is somewhere in the melee at the bottom of the steps) and projects himself into a position where he encounters, attracts suspicion and is questioned by Baker necessitating the need for Truly to interject that he (Oswald) is an employee?

 

Kind regards - Steve



#784 Thomas Graves

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 07:34 PM

 

Any clues who this woman in the black dress is, seen running behind baker.

She looks to be running FAST from the concrete island towards the TSBD entrance.  ( one of the TSBD girls ? )

she would have to run past prayer man to enter the building.

 

 

Credit: Duncan for this GIF

 

 

 

bl3_zps34f39e84.gif

 

 

ff6c521d-2d61-444a-baf0-2eabc5ee555d.gif

Robin,

 

 I thought I once saw a picture that included Hicks, Calvary, Reed,  Westbrook, and Dishong standing by the Stemmons Freeway sign.

If we can locate that, it might show what those women were wearing ...

 

Edit:  Zapruder frame 157 shows the backs of 5 women near the Stemmons Freeway sign.

 

 

Just a thought, folks:  If Shelley and Lovelady were, as Shelley claimed, on the light poled "island" when they turned around and saw Baker and Truly near-or-on-the-front-steps, wouldn't they be visible on said "island" at the beginning of the lower clip?

 

--Tommy  :sun


Edited by Thomas Graves, 20 September 2013 - 08:03 PM.


#785 Steve Mcdonagh

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 07:37 PM


 

prayermandesh12fps100c4k1m.gif

 

 

Darnell Film?



#786 Richard Hocking

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 08:14 PM

 

 

 

Major development.

Gary Mack has just emailed John Mytton, a LN poster at Duncan's forum:

 

While the image is an interesting find, the Prayer Man question has probably been answered.  I recently sent the Couch and Darnell frames to Buell Frazier and asked what he thought.  First, he wouldn’t confirm himself being on the top step because the image isn’t clear enough.  He then re-confirmed that Lovelady and Shelley were out on the steps with him, just as he has always said, but he couldn’t confirm Shelley, either, due to the image quality. 
 
Next I asked about Shelley’s appearance and learned he was a little taller than Lovelady (who was 5’8”), had red hair and a slender build.  When I asked if Shelley usually wore a coat and tie to work Buell said no, he “dressed daily in slacks and sport shirts.”  And he repeated that he, Lovelady and Shelley stayed on the steps for “a short time” after the last shot, but he didn’t estimate how long.
 
So unless Buell Frazier is still part of the cover-up plot, TSBD “Miscellaneous Department” manager William Shelley, by elimination, must be Prayer Man.  According to Shelley’s testimony, “I didn’t do anything for a minute” following the last shot, so the man was standing on the steps before, during and after the time Darnell and Couch filmed those brief scenes.
 
Gary Mack
 

 

**
 
This is a real breakthrough, and I for one am very grateful to Gary for taking the trouble to contact Buell Wesley Frazier.

Why is it a breakthrough?

Well, not because of the Shelley idea.
For Shelley's own testimony, and that of the person with him Billy Lovelady, rules him out as Prayer Man:

Mr. BALL - How did you happen to see Truly?
Mr. SHELLEY - We ran out on the island while some of the people that were out watching it from our building were walking back and we turned around and we saw an officer and Truly.
Mr. BALL - And Truly?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Did you see them go into the building?
MMr. SHELLEY - No; we didn't watch that long but they were at the first step like they were fixin' to go in.
Mr. BALL - Were they moving at the time, walking or running?
Mr. SHELLEY - Well, they were moving, yes.


Darnell shows Baker just a couple of seconds away from the building entrance.
Prayer Man is still standing up on the steps.
So Shelley is ruled out. Period.
(Unless, that is, someone wants to accuse him and Lovelady of lying in their WC testimony about their run out on to the 'island'. Who wants to go first?)

The reason Buell Wesley Frazier's response is a breakthrough is that Bill Shelley appears to be the only possibility BWF himself can offer when presented with the Prayer Man image. (Although it's not quite clear from Gary's message whether BWF himself nominated Shelley or whether that's Gary's own suggestion.) 
Given that he is not giving us some new revelation as to the presence of some hitherto unmentioned other person on the steps at that time (i.e. a stranger to the building), and given that Prayer Man cannot possibly be Shelley, we have just received startling confirmation that Prayer Man can only reasonably be Lee Oswald.

lFPHGbd.jpg

BWF probably knows it's Lee but--for the most understandable reasons in the world--cannot say so.
However, to give him credit, he's just done the next best thing.

 

Excellent that we finally have heard from Buell Frazier.  Would have been nice to see the actual correspondence between BWF and Gary.

 

But I agree, Sean.  BWF, who was standing a couple feet away at the time, has effectively limited the possibilities to Shelley and Lovelady.  A powerful statement against any other employee or any stranger being at Prayer Man's location.  And we have thoroughly covered the possibilities of either Shelley or Lovelady being PM previously.

 

This thread just got a turbo boost.

 

On a side note, this throws a knuckleball into the previous discussions concerning the identification of Shelley and Senkel  in the William Shelley thread.

 

Hi Guys

 

Are there any pictures, images or film of Shelley circa November 1963? Was he interviewed by any TV crew, snapped in a clear(ish) image or does Buell Wesley Frazier even have an old image of the two of them together around that time?

 

Sean, I have a couple of questions if you don’t mind.

 

After reviewing the Darnell film we can clearly see Baker running towards the steps at speed and apart from a lightly running lady in a dress no one else appears to be travelling or even reacting with anywhere near the same speed or purpose. From the speed of Bakers motion it stands to reason that unless he (Baker) suddenly slows down, pauses or stops when he reaches the steps of TSBD, his forward motion will likely carry him right up the steps and into the building. In fact this is the very reason I am convinced Baker enters the building alone and without Truly.

 

Now herein lays my question. PM man can clearly be seen standing towards the top left of the steps in a relatively consistent position and pose as we have seen him in earlier film/images as Baker reaches the bottom step. So if Baker does indeed continue his run up the steps he will surely pass PM man before entering the building. How does this fit into the sequence and timing of the Baker/Oswald encounter?

 

Could you please clarify or elaborate on how Oswald/PM, entering the building after Baker but before Truly (whom I presume is somewhere in the melee at the bottom of the steps) and projects himself into a position where he encounters, attracts suspicion and is questioned by Baker necessitating the need for Truly to interject that he (Oswald) is an employee?

 

Kind regards - Steve

 

Hi Steve,

 

 here is a link to a thread that tried to establish the photo ID of William Shelley:

 

http://educationforu...illiam +shelley

 

After BWF's description of Shelley being taller than Lovelady, red hair, and slender, it is probably time to revisit.



#787 Sean Murphy

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 08:49 PM



 

Now herein lays my question. PM man can clearly be seen standing towards the top left of the steps in a relatively consistent position and pose as we have seen him in earlier film/images as Baker reaches the bottom step. So if Baker does indeed continue his run up the steps he will surely pass PM man before entering the building. How does this fit into the sequence and timing of the Baker/Oswald encounter?

 

Could you please clarify or elaborate on how Oswald/PM, entering the building after Baker but before Truly (whom I presume is somewhere in the melee at the bottom of the steps) and projects himself into a position where he encounters, attracts suspicion and is questioned by Baker necessitating the need for Truly to interject that he (Oswald) is an employee?

 

Kind regards - Steve

 

 

Hi Steve,

 

Just to clarify that Baker didn't single out Oswald because he was suspicious, he just needed someone to point him to the stairs.

Hence his question, 'Do you work here?'

 

And because Darnell's film ends just before Baker hits the steps, we don't know exactly where the Oswald encounter took place.

 

My own belief is that it happened exactly where Prayer Man is standing, just outside the front door.

 

sFrr2JP.jpg

 

From Harry D. Holmes's testimony re. what Oswald told Fritz on the Sunday morning about the cop encounter:

 

Mr. HOLMES. He said it was in the vestibule.

Mr. BELIN. He said he was in the vestibule?

Mr. HOLMES. Or approaching the door to the vestibule. He was just coming, apparently, and I have never been in there myself. Apparently there is two sets of doors, and he had come out to this front part.

Mr. BELIN. Did he state it was on what floor?

Mr. HOLMES. First floor. The front entrance to the first floor.

 

Prayer Man is ideally positioned to be singled out by Baker as a person who might be able to offer help.



#788 William Kelly

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 10:40 PM

Sean, 

 

In the above exchange, we have Oswald telling Fritz, Fritz telling Holmes and Holmes telling Belin, three steps removed from what Oswald told Fritz. 

 

And Holmes doesn't know there is another vestibule, on the second floor where that encounter occurred at a minute and a half after the last shot, and there are two doors to it, one used by Baker and Truly and the other used by Oswald to enter and exit. 

 

Certainly Baker asked people where the steps were, and if he asked Prayer Man if he worked there he certainly wasn't suspicious of him being the assassin, but that's what Truly says was the reason for his response - yes, he works here, and that relieving Oswald of being the assassin. 

 

Oswald could have been Prayer Man and still made it to the lunchroom via the front steps and got there in time to encounter Baker and Truly. 

 

As for Gary Mack's questioning of Frazer, it is disturbing that if Frazer is Prayer Man, as I suspected, he can't identify himself, or identify Prayer Man as someone else.

 

Gary believes Shelley is Prayer Man, yet we have him in different clothes and running across the street to the traffic island to witness Baker run into the building. 

 

If Shelley did not wear a suit and tie on the day of the assassination, then whose the guy in the photos identified as him? 

 

 

 

 

http://jfkcountercou...an-at-tsbd.html


Edited by William Kelly, 20 September 2013 - 10:41 PM.


#789 Sean Murphy

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 10:52 PM

Sean, 

 

In the above exchange, we have Oswald telling Fritz, Fritz telling Holmes and Holmes telling Belin, three steps removed from what Oswald told Fritz. 

 

 

Incorrect, Bill.

We have Holmes hearing Oswald first-hand.

And a vestibule is a front lobby.

The lunchroom story is dead.



#790 William Kelly

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 11:00 PM

 

Sean, 

 

In the above exchange, we have Oswald telling Fritz, Fritz telling Holmes and Holmes telling Belin, three steps removed from what Oswald told Fritz. 

 

 

Incorrect, Bill.

We have Holmes hearing Oswald first-hand.

And a vestibule is a front lobby.

The lunchroom story is dead.

 

 

Sean, why would anyone seeking to cover up the conspiracy to kill the president invent a false second floor lunchroom encounter that exonerates Oswald?

 

And the three people who were three agree how it happened - and describe what happened in minute detail - and who is writing this script anyway? I want to talk to the script writer. 

 

BK



#791 Sean Murphy

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 11:13 PM

 

 

Sean, 

 

In the above exchange, we have Oswald telling Fritz, Fritz telling Holmes and Holmes telling Belin, three steps removed from what Oswald told Fritz. 

 

 

Incorrect, Bill.

We have Holmes hearing Oswald first-hand.

And a vestibule is a front lobby.

The lunchroom story is dead.

 

 

Sean, why would anyone seeking to cover up the conspiracy to kill the president invent a false second floor lunchroom encounter that exonerates Oswald?

 

And the three people who were three agree how it happened - and describe what happened in minute detail - and who is writing this script anyway? I want to talk to the script writer. 

 

BK

 

 

The second floor lunchroom story doesn't exonerate Oswald, Bill, it cruelly robs him of his 100% watertight alibi.

Their first idea was even crueller: transplant the front entrance Baker-Oswald-Truly encounter up to the rear stairway several floors up the building.

But it didn't work.

So they went with the only remaining option: the second-floor lunchroom.

And it really was the only remaining option.

Was it a lousy option? Sure. But it did the needful: allow a certain story to be told involving Oswald as the sixth floor shooter.



#792 Thomas Graves

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 11:42 PM

 

 

Any clues who this woman in the black dress is, seen running behind baker.

She looks to be running FAST from the concrete island towards the TSBD entrance.  ( one of the TSBD girls ? )

she would have to run past prayer man to enter the building.

 

 

Credit: Duncan for this GIF

 

 

 

bl3_zps34f39e84.gif

 

 

ff6c521d-2d61-444a-baf0-2eabc5ee555d.gif

Robin,

 

 I thought I once saw a picture that included Hicks, Calvary, Reed,  Westbrook, and Dishong standing by the Stemmons Freeway sign.

If we can locate that, it might show what those women were wearing ...

 

Edit:  Zapruder frame 157 shows the backs of 5 women near the Stemmons Freeway sign.

 

 

Just a thought, folks:  If Shelley and Lovelady were, as Shelley claimed, on the light poled "island" when they turned around and saw Baker and Truly near-or-on-the-front-steps, wouldn't they be visible on said "island" at the beginning of the lower clip?

 

--Tommy  :sun

 

bump



#793 William Kelly

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 11:51 PM

 

 

 

Sean, 

 

In the above exchange, we have Oswald telling Fritz, Fritz telling Holmes and Holmes telling Belin, three steps removed from what Oswald told Fritz. 

 

 

Incorrect, Bill.

We have Holmes hearing Oswald first-hand.

And a vestibule is a front lobby.

The lunchroom story is dead.

 

 

Sean, why would anyone seeking to cover up the conspiracy to kill the president invent a false second floor lunchroom encounter that exonerates Oswald?

 

And the three people who were three agree how it happened - and describe what happened in minute detail - and who is writing this script anyway? I want to talk to the script writer. 

 

BK

 

 

The second floor lunchroom story doesn't exonerate Oswald, Bill, it cruelly robs him of his 100% watertight alibi.

Their first idea was even crueller: transplant the front entrance Baker-Oswald-Truly encounter up to the rear stairway several floors up the building.

But it didn't work.

So they went with the only remaining option: the second-floor lunchroom.

And it really was the only remaining option.

Was it a lousy option? Sure. But it did the needful: allow a certain story to be told involving Oswald as the sixth floor shooter.

 

 

But WHO is doing all this? Who tried to transplant the encounter everyone acknowledges happening from where it happened anywhere else? 

 

Who is "they" who went with the only remaining option? 

 

But it doesn't allow for Oswald to be the sixth floor shooter. Who made up the part about Baker seeing Oswald through the window of the closed door? That's a fact that Truly said he was unaware of until days if not weeks later. Who made up the story of Baker seeing Oswald through the window of the closed door, but forgets to have Truly - ahead of Baker - seeing Oswald walk through the open door, as he would have had to if Oswald went through that door? 

 

If the devil is in the details, they can run the time it takes to get from place to place all they want, it always comes out the same - minute and a half, but they can't have Oswald go through that door if Truly didn't see him and Baker did see him on the other side of that door - through the window - so Oswald, as Holmes points out, must have got into that vestibule - via the other second door. And yes, Holmes said first floor, but I don't believe he was repeating what Oswald told Fritz accurately, and both Baker and Truly, once they recreated their waltz - agreed it was the second floor, and Oswald confirmed their recollections and recreations of the incident, which exonerate him. 

 

I believe Baker, he was a good, honest copper, and his detailed story rings true. 

 

And if someone told Baker and Truly what the script was, who were they, who are you talking about? Who was pulling the cover up strings, because whoever they were, they screwed up. 

 

BK  

http://jfkcountercou...an-at-tsbd.html


Edited by William Kelly, 20 September 2013 - 11:53 PM.


#794 Sean Murphy

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 12:05 AM



bump


 

Just a thought, folks:  If Shelley and Lovelady were, as Shelley claimed, on the light poled "island" when they turned around and saw Baker and Truly near-or-on-the-front-steps, wouldn't they be visible on said "island" at the beginning of the lower clip?

 

--Tommy  :sun

 

 

I think Gerda Dunckel had it right when she identified these two men as Lovelady and Shelley--

 

couchloveladyshelley7l8kuy.gif

 

--and that Buell Wesley Frazier is simply misremembering as to what Shelley was wearing that day:

 

PjAw1cQ.jpg

 

AfU01BW.jpg

 

If the images were in colour we could of course verify that he has red hair...



#795 Sean Murphy

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 12:09 AM

 


But WHO is doing all this? Who tried to transplant the encounter everyone acknowledges happening from where it happened anywhere else? 

 

Who is "they" who went with the only remaining option? 

 

But it doesn't allow for Oswald to be the sixth floor shooter. Who made up the part about Baker seeing Oswald through the window of the closed door? That's a fact that Truly said he was unaware of until days if not weeks later. Who made up the story of Baker seeing Oswald through the window of the closed door, but forgets to have Truly - ahead of Baker - seeing Oswald walk through the open door, as he would have had to if Oswald went through that door? 

 

If the devil is in the details, they can run the time it takes to get from place to place all they want, it always comes out the same - minute and a half, but they can't have Oswald go through that door if Truly didn't see him and Baker did see him on the other side of that door - through the window - so Oswald, as Holmes points out, must have got into that vestibule - via the other second door. And yes, Holmes said first floor, but I don't believe he was repeating what Oswald told Fritz accurately, and both Baker and Truly, once they recreated their waltz - agreed it was the second floor, and Oswald confirmed their recollections and recreations of the incident, which exonerate him. 

 

I believe Baker, he was a good, honest copper, and his detailed story rings true. 

 

And if someone told Baker and Truly what the script was, who were they, who are you talking about? Who was pulling the cover up strings, because whoever they were, they screwed up. 

 

BK  

http://jfkcountercou...an-at-tsbd.html

 

 

1. Who? FBI, chiefly (though the Baker affidavit was surely a DPD-led gambit).

 

2. Please show me how Baker and Truly's WC testimony rules out the possibility that Oswald was the sixth floor shooter.

 

3. Which of Baker's detailed stories rings most true for you? His 11/22 story or his WC story?






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