Jump to content


Spartacus

Oswald Leaving TSBD?


  • Please log in to reply
2232 replies to this topic

#841 David Von Pein

David Von Pein

    Super Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3,920 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Indiana, USA

Posted 23 September 2013 - 08:20 PM

OSWALD, BAKER, TRULY, AND THE COKE:

JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/Oswald-Baker-Truly-And-Coca-Cola

Edited by David Von Pein, 23 September 2013 - 08:21 PM.


#842 Robert Prudhomme

Robert Prudhomme

    Super Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3,349 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:British Columbia, Canada
  • Interests:Gold mining, horses, pickup trucks, fishing, hunting, killing trees, you know....the usual redneck stuff

Posted 23 September 2013 - 08:30 PM

 

I was actually enjoying this thread. Why do you insist on hijacking threads and knocking them off-topic, David Von Pain [sic][~sigh~]?


Sorry. I guess it did get "off topic" yet again. So easy for that to happen, especially when a person (Bill Kelly) asked me a series of questions within this now-derailed thread. (Of course, Bill isn't to be scolded in this "off topic" regard, is he Bob? Only me.)

Should I have just ignored Bill's list of inquiries to me, Bob?

~reciprocal sigh~

 

Knocking threads off-topic is how you operate; it is your "modus operandi", so to speak.

 

And, you have not been missed.



#843 William Kelly

William Kelly

    Super Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 8,793 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 23 September 2013 - 08:32 PM

 

I was actually enjoying this thread. Why do you insist on hijacking threads and knocking them off-topic, David Von Pain [sic][~sigh~]?


Sorry. I guess it did get "off topic" yet again. So easy for that to happen, especially when a person (Bill Kelly) asked me a series of questions within this now-derailed thread. (Of course, Bill isn't to be scolded in this "off topic" regard, is he Bob? Only me.)

Should I have just ignored Bill's list of inquiries to me, Bob?

~reciprocal sigh~

 

 

Dave, I am going to start another thread on 50 questions Lone Nutters should answer, and we can continue the conversation there. 

 

I will also refer the coke posts to the coke botttle thread. 

 

BK 



#844 William Kelly

William Kelly

    Super Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 8,793 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 23 September 2013 - 08:36 PM

 

Dave, can we continue this discussion on this thread: 

 

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?s=888f941f5d45616302513bb83d77312f&showtopic=20456

 

Thanks,

 

BK 



#845 Richard Hocking

Richard Hocking

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 503 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 23 September 2013 - 09:57 PM

"12:31: Officer Baker enters TSBD front Entrance, runs past "Prayer Man" and goes to back w Truly, who shouts twice to release elevator. (no response). They see 2 white men by the elevators. (probably Shelley and Lovelady according to Adams) 21"

I am still trying to understand how Lovelady and Shelley were able to proceed West on Elm St. to the concrete island, plus able to look back and see Truly/Baker entering the TSBD, yet be waiting in the vicinity of the elevators to be spotted first by Vicki Adams and then by Marrion Baker; especially if we read Shelley's testimony, in which he describes himself and Lovelady then going to the railroad yards before returning to the TSBD by the rear door. By her testimony, I think Miss Adams was on her way out of the building through the back door before Truly/Baker arrived at the elevators. If not, there is no way they could have not run into each other on the stairs.

Also, according to Miss Adams' testimony, she had returned from the railroad yard to the TSBD and stopped to listen to the two way radio on a police motorcycle parked in front of the TSBD. Presumably, this was Baker's motorcycle, further proving she had managed to get out of the TSBD before Truly and Baker had entered.

Robert,

 

 If you go through the whole timeline, you will see there are various contradictions, along with bits of testimony that are suspicious.

This all goes back to the original intent of this timeline.  From the inception, it was never intended to be a theory or a comprehensive explanation on my part. I did not exclude certain witness testimony just because I myself did not believe it. 

 

The intent was to organize witness testimony (including testimony that I do not believe) around certain events that I considered to be significant regarding the events that unfolded in the TSBD just before and just after the assassination.  There was some interpretation on my part, especially in assigning times or time ranges to events, but I do have a reasonable argument for assigning every one of those time ranges.  I remain open to new information and suggestions.

 

I have gathered new information since this timeline was first presented.  Prayer man is a perfect example, but there are other events and testimony that need to be added.

And I am in the process of updating.

 

It is important to remember when looking at this timeline that its value lies in  being a guide or a frame of  reference.  So when I do finish the update, it is still going to contain contradictions and some testimony I consider to be suspect.

 

It is up to the user put the pieces together when trying to interpret what actually happened.

 

Add Edit:  I should include a thank you to Robert for making his point, prompting me to do some necessary clarification.


Edited by Richard Hocking, 23 September 2013 - 11:20 PM.


#846 Paul Rigby

Paul Rigby

    Super Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,449 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Southport, England

Posted 23 September 2013 - 11:00 PM

 If you go through the whole timeline, you will see there are various contradictions, along with bits of testimony that are suspicious.

This all goes back to the original intent of this timeline.  From the inception, it was never intended to be a theory or a comprehensive explanation on my part. I did not exclude certain witness testimony just because I myself did not believe it. 

 

The intent was to organize witness testimony (including testimony that I do not believe) around certain events that I considered to be significant regarding the events that unfolded in the TSBD just before and just after the assassination.  There was some interpretation on my part, especially in assigning times or time ranges to events, but I do have a reasonable argument for assigning every one of those time ranges.  I remain open to new information and suggestions.

 

I have gathered new information since this timeline was first presented.  Prayer man is a perfect example, but there are other events and testimony that need to be added.

And I am in the process of updating.

 

It is important to remember when looking at this timeline that its value lies in  being a guide or a frame of  reference.  So when I do finish the update, it is still going to contain contradictions and some testimony I consider to be suspect.

 

It is up to the user put the pieces together when trying to interpret what actually happened.

 

 

A brief note of appreciation, Richard, for all your work in this thread. It's been exemplary. Thanks for it, and keep it coming.

 

Paul



#847 Richard Hocking

Richard Hocking

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 503 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 23 September 2013 - 11:21 PM

 

 If you go through the whole timeline, you will see there are various contradictions, along with bits of testimony that are suspicious.

This all goes back to the original intent of this timeline.  From the inception, it was never intended to be a theory or a comprehensive explanation on my part. I did not exclude certain witness testimony just because I myself did not believe it. 

 

The intent was to organize witness testimony (including testimony that I do not believe) around certain events that I considered to be significant regarding the events that unfolded in the TSBD just before and just after the assassination.  There was some interpretation on my part, especially in assigning times or time ranges to events, but I do have a reasonable argument for assigning every one of those time ranges.  I remain open to new information and suggestions.

 

I have gathered new information since this timeline was first presented.  Prayer man is a perfect example, but there are other events and testimony that need to be added.

And I am in the process of updating.

 

It is important to remember when looking at this timeline that its value lies in  being a guide or a frame of  reference.  So when I do finish the update, it is still going to contain contradictions and some testimony I consider to be suspect.

 

It is up to the user put the pieces together when trying to interpret what actually happened.

 

 

A brief note of appreciation, Richard, for all your work in this thread. It's been exemplary. Thanks for it, and keep it coming.

 

Paul

 

Many thanks, Paul.



#848 Pat Speer

Pat Speer

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5,479 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 24 September 2013 - 03:40 AM

I noticed a small error on your timeline, Richard. When Dougherty descended from the fifth floor he purportedly spoke to Piper. The timeline says Givens.



#849 Robert Prudhomme

Robert Prudhomme

    Super Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3,349 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:British Columbia, Canada
  • Interests:Gold mining, horses, pickup trucks, fishing, hunting, killing trees, you know....the usual redneck stuff

Posted 24 September 2013 - 05:00 AM

"12:31: Officer Baker enters TSBD front Entrance, runs past "Prayer Man" and goes to back w Truly, who shouts twice to release elevator. (no response). They see 2 white men by the elevators. (probably Shelley and Lovelady according to Adams) 21"

I am still trying to understand how Lovelady and Shelley were able to proceed West on Elm St. to the concrete island, plus able to look back and see Truly/Baker entering the TSBD, yet be waiting in the vicinity of the elevators to be spotted first by Vicki Adams and then by Marrion Baker; especially if we read Shelley's testimony, in which he describes himself and Lovelady then going to the railroad yards before returning to the TSBD by the rear door. By her testimony, I think Miss Adams was on her way out of the building through the back door before Truly/Baker arrived at the elevators. If not, there is no way they could have not run into each other on the stairs.

Also, according to Miss Adams' testimony, she had returned from the railroad yard to the TSBD and stopped to listen to the two way radio on a police motorcycle parked in front of the TSBD. Presumably, this was Baker's motorcycle, further proving she had managed to get out of the TSBD before Truly and Baker had entered.

Robert,
 
 If you go through the whole timeline, you will see there are various contradictions, along with bits of testimony that are suspicious.
This all goes back to the original intent of this timeline.  From the inception, it was never intended to be a theory or a comprehensive explanation on my part. I did not exclude certain witness testimony just because I myself did not believe it. 
 
The intent was to organize witness testimony (including testimony that I do not believe) around certain events that I considered to be significant regarding the events that unfolded in the TSBD just before and just after the assassination.  There was some interpretation on my part, especially in assigning times or time ranges to events, but I do have a reasonable argument for assigning every one of those time ranges.  I remain open to new information and suggestions.
 
I have gathered new information since this timeline was first presented.  Prayer man is a perfect example, but there are other events and testimony that need to be added.
And I am in the process of updating.
 
It is important to remember when looking at this timeline that its value lies in  being a guide or a frame of  reference.  So when I do finish the update, it is still going to contain contradictions and some testimony I consider to be suspect.
 
It is up to the user put the pieces together when trying to interpret what actually happened.
 
Add Edit:  I should include a thank you to Robert for making his point, prompting me to do some necessary clarification.


Hello Richard

Please do not think I was trying to take you to task for errors in the timeline; on the contrary, your timeline makes it much easier to spot discrepancies between the various testimonies.

Keep up the good work!

#850 Sean Murphy

Sean Murphy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 487 posts

Posted 24 September 2013 - 09:52 AM

On the day of the assassination, Oswald's supervisor Bill Shelley gave an affidavit in which he mentioned the name of Gloria Calvery (click to enlarge):

 

IARvpC6.jpg

 

The affidavit leaves no room for ambiguity.

Shelley "ran into" Gloria after leaving the front steps of the building and running "across the street to the corner of the park".

 

By the time of his and Billy Lovelady's April 7 WC testimony, however, the encounter with Gloria has been mysteriously transplanted to the front steps themselves.

 

Shelley:

 

Mr. SHELLEY - Gloria Calvary from South-Western Publishing Co. ran back up there crying and said "The President has been shot" and Billy Lovelady and myself took off across the street to that little, old island and we stopped there for a minute

...

Mr. BALL - She ran back up to the door and you had still remained standing there?

Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.

 

Lovelady:

 

Mr. BALL - Now, when Gloria came up you were standing near Mr. Shelley? 

Mr. LOVELADY - Yeah. 
Mr. BALL - When Gloria came up and said the President had been shot, Gloria Calvary, what did you do? 
Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I asked who told her. She said he had been shot so we asked her was she for certain or just had she seen the shot hit him or--she said yes, she had been right close to it to see and she had saw the blood and knew he had been hit but didn't know how serious it was and so the crowd had started towards the railroad tracks back, you know, behind our building there and we run towards that little, old island and kind of down there in that little street.

 

 

It couldn't be clearer.

The two men don't run into Gloria out across the street, she now runs up to them and becomes the reason why they leave the steps.

 

Most bizarrely of all, as we have seen earlier in this thread, both Shelley and Lovelady are now timestamping their departure from the front steps to some 3 minutes after the shooting. Even Ball is taken aback by the extravagance of their over-estimation.

 

And it in turn yields the wildly implausible timestamp of between 3 and 4 minutes for their looking back from the 'island' and seeing Baker and Truly about to enter the building.

 

**

 

It's clear that somebody at some point--somebody other than the WC folk--prevailed upon Shelley and Lovelady to delay their departure from the front steps by several minutes.

 

But why?

 

I've already suggested two likely reasons:

 

1. The police were initially admitting that the Baker-Oswald-Truly encounter happened on the front steps just after the assassination. In order to make this story work, the timeline had to be stretched to minutes rather than seconds: Oswald was 'stopped' on his way out of the building some 3-4 minutes after the shooting. He had time to make his descent from the sixth floor.

 

2. Billy Lovelady needed to be kept on the steps for a little while to help explain away any Oswaldian images that might show up in photos or films of the TSBD front entrance in the immediate assassination aftermath.

 

**

 

We can I think reasonably offer a third reason why the authorities, in the very early part of the 'investigation', would have wanted to distort the Shelley-Lovelady timeline:

Oswald was still alive.

 

The prospect of his going to trial was still a real one.

 

And he, as defendant, was going to make a very damaging claim from the dock:

I was out front with Bill Shelley.

 

How, if Oswald was the sixth-floor shooter, could he have known where exactly Bill Shelley was at the time of the assassination?

How was the prosecution to explain away his description of Shelley (and others) on the steps?

 

The intended solution was to shift Oswald's sighting of Shelley to several minutes after the assassination.

The front-entrance Baker incident having been transplanted up to the second-floor lunchroom, Oswald would now be said to have spotted Shelley at the front entrance on his (Oswald's) way out of the building.

To this end, Shelley needed to be kept on the front steps just long enough for this story to be plausible.

Three minutes would do it.

 

**

 

Shelley's name is not mentioned in the joint Bookhout-Hosty interrogation report, written while Oswald is still alive.

It does however make it into Bookhout's solo report, written after Oswald has been murdered:

"out with Bill Shelley in front" is glossed as a post-lunchroom incident event:

 

He thereafter went outside and stood around for five or ten minutes with foreman Bill Shelly, and thereafter went home. He stated that he left work because, in his opinion, based upon remarks of Bill Shelly, he did not believe that there was going to be anymore work that day due to the confusion in the building.

 

All that now remains is for Shelley to be asked whether this had ever happened--and for Shelley to answer with an honest 'no'.

 

**

 

Thus the quadruple switcheroo:

 

i) Oswald, in the domino room, sees Jarman & Norman come in the back door of the first floor BECOMES Oswald claimed to have eaten his lunch with Jarman & Norman

 

ii) Oswald claims to have gone up to the second-floor lunchroom to buy a coke shortly before the assassination BECOMES Oswald claimed to have gone up for the coke just after the assassination

 

iii) Oswald claims to have been eating his lunch and/or drinking the coke out front when the officer came in to the first floor BECOMES Oswald claimed the officer came into the second-floor lunchroom just after he had bought his coke

 

iv) Oswald names Bill Shelley as one of the people he was out front with at the time of the assassination BECOMES Oswald named Bill Shelley as someone he spoke with out front several minutes after the assassination.

 

That lying b*stard, Oswald.

We have him (literally) dead to rights.


Edited by Sean Murphy, 24 September 2013 - 10:25 AM.


#851 Robert Prudhomme

Robert Prudhomme

    Super Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3,349 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:British Columbia, Canada
  • Interests:Gold mining, horses, pickup trucks, fishing, hunting, killing trees, you know....the usual redneck stuff

Posted 24 September 2013 - 02:00 PM

Strange indeed, Sean. His trip with Lovelady to the railroad yards that he testified about to the WC was never mentioned in his first day statement. Instead, he at that time only claimed he went across the street, met Gloria Calvery, went immediately back inside the TSBD, phoned his wife and was then instructed (by Truly??) to guard the elevators on the 1st floor.

Is this how Vicki Adams came to see Shelley and Lovelady by the elevators on the 1st floor on her way out the rear door? Doesn't this still make things a bit difficult, considering Truly would have been on his way upstairs with Baker by the time Shelley arrived at the elevators, and Miss Adams should have met Baker/Truly on the stairs?

If it was not Truly who instructed Shelley to guard the elevators, then who?

Edited by Robert Prudhomme, 24 September 2013 - 02:01 PM.


#852 Richard Hocking

Richard Hocking

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 503 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 24 September 2013 - 02:55 PM

I noticed a small error on your timeline, Richard. When Dougherty descended from the fifth floor he purportedly spoke to Piper. The timeline says Givens.

Thanks, Pat.  I made the correction on my working copy.



#853 Richard Hocking

Richard Hocking

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 503 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 24 September 2013 - 03:04 PM

 

 

"12:31: Officer Baker enters TSBD front Entrance, runs past "Prayer Man" and goes to back w Truly, who shouts twice to release elevator. (no response). They see 2 white men by the elevators. (probably Shelley and Lovelady according to Adams) 21"

I am still trying to understand how Lovelady and Shelley were able to proceed West on Elm St. to the concrete island, plus able to look back and see Truly/Baker entering the TSBD, yet be waiting in the vicinity of the elevators to be spotted first by Vicki Adams and then by Marrion Baker; especially if we read Shelley's testimony, in which he describes himself and Lovelady then going to the railroad yards before returning to the TSBD by the rear door. By her testimony, I think Miss Adams was on her way out of the building through the back door before Truly/Baker arrived at the elevators. If not, there is no way they could have not run into each other on the stairs.

Also, according to Miss Adams' testimony, she had returned from the railroad yard to the TSBD and stopped to listen to the two way radio on a police motorcycle parked in front of the TSBD. Presumably, this was Baker's motorcycle, further proving she had managed to get out of the TSBD before Truly and Baker had entered.

Robert,
 
 If you go through the whole timeline, you will see there are various contradictions, along with bits of testimony that are suspicious.
This all goes back to the original intent of this timeline.  From the inception, it was never intended to be a theory or a comprehensive explanation on my part. I did not exclude certain witness testimony just because I myself did not believe it. 
 
The intent was to organize witness testimony (including testimony that I do not believe) around certain events that I considered to be significant regarding the events that unfolded in the TSBD just before and just after the assassination.  There was some interpretation on my part, especially in assigning times or time ranges to events, but I do have a reasonable argument for assigning every one of those time ranges.  I remain open to new information and suggestions.
 
I have gathered new information since this timeline was first presented.  Prayer man is a perfect example, but there are other events and testimony that need to be added.
And I am in the process of updating.
 
It is important to remember when looking at this timeline that its value lies in  being a guide or a frame of  reference.  So when I do finish the update, it is still going to contain contradictions and some testimony I consider to be suspect.
 
It is up to the user put the pieces together when trying to interpret what actually happened.
 
Add Edit:  I should include a thank you to Robert for making his point, prompting me to do some necessary clarification.

 


Hello Richard

Please do not think I was trying to take you to task for errors in the timeline; on the contrary, your timeline makes it much easier to spot discrepancies between the various testimonies.

Keep up the good work!

 

Thank you Robert.   I did not take your post that way.  

 

It has been awhile since it was originally posted.  I just felt it was time to clarify what I was trying to accomplish when I first put it together... a timeline that emphasized sightings of unidentified or suspicious individuals that were seen through the windows on the upper floors or near the Stairways, elevators and exits.



#854 Richard Hocking

Richard Hocking

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 503 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 24 September 2013 - 03:20 PM

On the day of the assassination, Oswald's supervisor Bill Shelley gave an affidavit in which he mentioned the name of Gloria Calvery (click to enlarge):

 

IARvpC6.jpg

 

The affidavit leaves no room for ambiguity.

Shelley "ran into" Gloria after leaving the front steps of the building and running "across the street to the corner of the park".

 

By the time of his and Billy Lovelady's April 7 WC testimony, however, the encounter with Gloria has been mysteriously transplanted to the front steps themselves.

 

Shelley:

 

Mr. SHELLEY - Gloria Calvary from South-Western Publishing Co. ran back up there crying and said "The President has been shot" and Billy Lovelady and myself took off across the street to that little, old island and we stopped there for a minute

...

Mr. BALL - She ran back up to the door and you had still remained standing there?

Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.

 

Lovelady:

 

Mr. BALL - Now, when Gloria came up you were standing near Mr. Shelley? 

Mr. LOVELADY - Yeah. 
Mr. BALL - When Gloria came up and said the President had been shot, Gloria Calvary, what did you do? 
Mr. LOVELADY - Well, I asked who told her. She said he had been shot so we asked her was she for certain or just had she seen the shot hit him or--she said yes, she had been right close to it to see and she had saw the blood and knew he had been hit but didn't know how serious it was and so the crowd had started towards the railroad tracks back, you know, behind our building there and we run towards that little, old island and kind of down there in that little street.

 

 

It couldn't be clearer.

The two men don't run into Gloria out across the street, she now runs up to them and becomes the reason why they leave the steps.

 

Most bizarrely of all, as we have seen earlier in this thread, both Shelley and Lovelady are now timestamping their departure from the front steps to some 3 minutes after the shooting. Even Ball is taken aback by the extravagance of their over-estimation.

 

And it in turn yields the wildly implausible timestamp of between 3 and 4 minutes for their looking back from the 'island' and seeing Baker and Truly about to enter the building.

 

**

 

It's clear that somebody at some point--somebody other than the WC folk--prevailed upon Shelley and Lovelady to delay their departure from the front steps by several minutes.

 

But why?

 

I've already suggested two likely reasons:

 

1. The police were initially admitting that the Baker-Oswald-Truly encounter happened on the front steps just after the assassination. In order to make this story work, the timeline had to be stretched to minutes rather than seconds: Oswald was 'stopped' on his way out of the building some 3-4 minutes after the shooting. He had time to make his descent from the sixth floor.

 

2. Billy Lovelady needed to be kept on the steps for a little while to help explain away any Oswaldian images that might show up in photos or films of the TSBD front entrance in the immediate assassination aftermath.

 

**

 

We can I think reasonably offer a third reason why the authorities, in the very early part of the 'investigation', would have wanted to distort the Shelley-Lovelady timeline:

Oswald was still alive.

 

The prospect of his going to trial was still a real one.

 

And he, as defendant, was going to make a very damaging claim from the dock:

I was out front with Bill Shelley.

 

How, if Oswald was the sixth-floor shooter, could he have known where exactly Bill Shelley was at the time of the assassination?

How was the prosecution to explain away his description of Shelley (and others) on the steps?

 

The intended solution was to shift Oswald's sighting of Shelley to several minutes after the assassination.

The front-entrance Baker incident having been transplanted up to the second-floor lunchroom, Oswald would now be said to have spotted Shelley at the front entrance on his (Oswald's) way out of the building.

To this end, Shelley needed to be kept on the front steps just long enough for this story to be plausible.

Three minutes would do it.

 

**

 

Shelley's name is not mentioned in the joint Bookhout-Hosty interrogation report, written while Oswald is still alive.

It does however make it into Bookhout's solo report, written after Oswald has been murdered:

"out with Bill Shelley in front" is glossed as a post-lunchroom incident event:

 

He thereafter went outside and stood around for five or ten minutes with foreman Bill Shelly, and thereafter went home. He stated that he left work because, in his opinion, based upon remarks of Bill Shelly, he did not believe that there was going to be anymore work that day due to the confusion in the building.

 

All that now remains is for Shelley to be asked whether this had ever happened--and for Shelley to answer with an honest 'no'.

 

**

 

Thus the quadruple switcheroo:

 

i) Oswald, in the domino room, sees Jarman & Norman come in the back door of the first floor BECOMES Oswald claimed to have eaten his lunch with Jarman & Norman

 

ii) Oswald claims to have gone up to the second-floor lunchroom to buy a coke shortly before the assassination BECOMES Oswald claimed to have gone up for the coke just after the assassination

 

iii) Oswald claims to have been eating his lunch and/or drinking the coke out front when the officer came in to the first floor BECOMES Oswald claimed the officer came into the second-floor lunchroom just after he had bought his coke

 

iv) Oswald names Bill Shelley as one of the people he was out front with at the time of the assassination BECOMES Oswald named Bill Shelley as someone he spoke with out front several minutes after the assassination.

 

That lying b*stard, Oswald.

We have him (literally) dead to rights.

As you discussed Sean, Shelley and Lovelady waiting for 3 minutes on the steps before leaving is a No Go.  S and L are gone before Baker gets to the steps.  Pauline Sanders said it took Baker 10 seconds to get there after the last shot.   Baker and the WC are within a few seconds of Sanders estimate.  We also have Couch and Darnell.

 

My best estimate for the Calvary/Shelley/Lovelady encounter is within a minute of the last shot.  



#855 Bjørn Gjerde

Bjørn Gjerde

    Experienced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 58 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 24 September 2013 - 03:46 PM

I don't know if Truly has been identified out in front of TSBD, but here are my suggestions in a frame from Wiegman and a frame from Darnell. In the Darnell film, 'Truly' is seen spinning around after Baker has run past him.

 

Attached File  PDVD_671_TrulyCampbell_ed.jpg   95.68KB   13 downloads

 

Attached File  DarnellBakerTrulyl.jpg   74.28KB   15 downloads

 

Bjørn Gjerde






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users