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Education Forum to Close


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I'll go along with what's decided. I can do up to 100 - 150 first year. Naturally less from more is better. Further, for me, my payment doesn't buy me a say in the forum admin or any other 'privileges', merely keeps the forum going, with or without me.

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I, too, agree with the privileges part, and just want us to keep it going. A discussion on how to proceed is a must, after we secure it. We can open that up to the entire community.

Hope it's not too soon for this -- but can we have some discussion about Bringing Back the Banned, amnesty for (some of) those who were tossed?

I'm thinking of Peter Lemkin...among others...Cinque can stay banned...

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Kathy,

I believe I can commit to a $100 per year. I agree that we should discuss how to proceed, however maybe we should also re-evaluate the site an think about how to both encourage new members as well as how to give the site an even higher profile.

Edited by James R Gordon
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So sorry to hear this. I wish I were in a position to help, but, I am unemployed. I remember you telling me all those years ago, John, about what was happening here in America, and how it was exactly the same thing which had been done to England, Great Britain, whatever name you prefer to use.

You suggested I start spreading the word around, and I, in my fear of the govt. here, failed to do so. That has been bothering me for years, so, this being maybe the last chance to tell you, I am sorry I failed to do as you had suggested.

With the economic crisis, manufactured I am sure, which has been such a problem over here for the last 8 years, it has become increasingly difficult...no, it has become downright impossible for me to find decent work for some time now. I have not been doing what I should to support this forum and it pains me to realize that I may be a part of why this site is closing.

Now that I have made my peace with this. I wish you all the best in life. You are a true gentleman.

Many would do well to continue the struggle you have maintained all these years.

Peace.

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A few troubling observations about forum closure:


1. John Simkin said, "The current account expires at the end of July 2014 and we do not intend to renew it."


Essentially, this forum is going to close down. We were put on notice of this some time ago. I'm not sure who "we" refers to as in "we do not intend to renew it", but my guess would be John and Andy Walker.


2. It's been over a week now since John started this thread, and he has not yet publicly responded to any of the offers made regarding how to save this forum. I'd say John really means what he says.


3. John did suggest that anyone interested in taking over the forum should contact Andy.


To date, apparently no one has contacted Andy. That is mind-boggling to say the least.


In other words, because good-hearted, well-meaning members can't follow up on John's vital suggestion, this forum will surely close down at the end of July 2014.


4. Only two forum members have raised the issue of whether or not the archived materials will survive if the forum does, indeed, close down.


The archived materials should be the number one priority. Not only for us but for generations to come. It's hard to imagine all that opinion, debate and research over many years just simply disappearing.


But it's been happening elsewhere.


Robert Harris decided to close down his JFK History forum, and everything has vanished. Many good things. All gone. As if they never existed. Wasn't there a way to save those archived materials?


JFK Lancer, of all places, began showing the preliminary signs of forum closure in August of last year when it shut down for a few days and moderator Jerry Dealey assured everyone that the powers that be were looking to upgrade forum software and then he expressed his concern about not wanting to lose 14 years of threads and topics, a concern that seems to be oddly lacking in this current thread.


Well, it looks like Lancer has lost 14 years of threads and topics. As if they never existed. Wasn't there a way to save those archived materials either?


Maybe current Lancer Chairman Larry Hancock could enlighten us on that. Why, Larry? Why have you and your associates decided to junk all those Lancer forum threads? Whatever possessed you to do that?


Meanwhile, what's the point of starting new JFK assassination forums if members can't be guaranteed that archived threads won't all wind up in the trash bin, which ultimately wastes our time and deprives future generations of a valuable resource?


Ken
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There has been some talk about how to save the archives for months now. I believe I saw on another forum that some have downloaded the bulk of the threads, so that not all will be lost.

Now, that said, I would like to see the forum continue, and will continue to use the forum as my main outlet for new findings, should it survive.

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Ken, the answer as far as Lancer goes is relatively simple. Last year I know of at least two major hacks that were conducted against the Lancer forum and the Lancer website - at least two of them affected file links off my web site as well. Each time Debra managed to bring the forum and its links back up, somebody hacked it again. In defense she left the forum down and reworked the basic web site, we reworked my site as well. At that point Debra, being in ill health, simply let any work on the forum go. Her health continues to be poor and at this point she is working with a handful of folks who may, or may not decide to continue JFK Lancer. If they do it will be their decision to try and revive the forum and to incur the programming expense to do so...and either address better security, move to a new host etc.

There was no decision to junk the threads, someone consciously and repeatedly hacked the forum and kept taking it and the links down. Possibly someone will make the decision to try and restore it but that will be up to them, many of the older forums were private efforts and frankly forum operators can just get sick and tired of the flack....or just plain sick.

Oh, to be clear, JFK Lancer for the last few years was literally Debra Conway. She did it all, a few of us helped with chores such as Jerry on moderation and Stu and I with the conference but we were simply volunteers.

-- Larry

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A few troubling observations about forum closure:

1. John Simkin said, "The current account expires at the end of July 2014 and we do not intend to renew it."

Essentially, this forum is going to close down. We were put on notice of this some time ago. I'm not sure who "we" refers to as in "we do not intend to renew it", but my guess would be John and Andy Walker.

2. It's been over a week now since John started this thread, and he has not yet publicly responded to any of the offers made regarding how to save this forum. I'd say John really means what he says.

3. John did suggest that anyone interested in taking over the forum should contact Andy.

To date, apparently no one has contacted Andy. That is mind-boggling to say the least.

In other words, because good-hearted, well-meaning members can't follow up on John's vital suggestion, this forum will surely close down at the end of July 2014.

4. Only two forum members have raised the issue of whether or not the archived materials will survive if the forum does, indeed, close down.

The archived materials should be the number one priority. Not only for us but for generations to come. It's hard to imagine all that opinion, debate and research over many years just simply disappearing.

But it's been happening elsewhere.

Robert Harris decided to close down his JFK History forum, and everything has vanished. Many good things. All gone. As if they never existed. Wasn't there a way to save those archived materials?

JFK Lancer, of all places, began showing the preliminary signs of forum closure in August of last year when it shut down for a few days and moderator Jerry Dealey assured everyone that the powers that be were looking to upgrade forum software and then he expressed his concern about not wanting to lose 14 years of threads and topics, a concern that seems to be oddly lacking in this current thread.

Well, it looks like Lancer has lost 14 years of threads and topics. As if they never existed. Wasn't there a way to save those archived materials either?

Maybe current Lancer Chairman Larry Hancock could enlighten us on that. Why, Larry? Why have you and your associates decided to junk all those Lancer forum threads? Whatever possessed you to do that?

Meanwhile, what's the point of starting new JFK assassination forums if members can't be guaranteed that archived threads won't all wind up in the trash bin, which ultimately wastes our time and deprives future generations of a valuable resource?

Ken

It is not true that Andy and I have not responded to plans to save the Forum. There has been considerable communication by email between interested parties. I will do whatever is needed to keep the archives available to researchers. Also attempts are being made to keep the forum available until the end of August. However, we do need to think very deeply about how we share research in the future. Changes made by Google mean that Forums do very badly in searches. Young people are also not very interested in communicating via Forums. I will later start a new thread on this issue.

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If the archives of the Education Forum were lost, it would have an impact in its own way similar to the destruction of the Library at Alexandria.

http://ehistory.osu.edu/world/articles/articleview.cfm?aid=9

Another way of looking at value and impact of the research and writings that appear on the Education Forum can be found in this vitally important article about the Open Source Revolution:

The open source revolution is coming and it will conquer the 1% - ex CIA spy

The man who trained more than 66 countries in open source methods calls for re-invention of intelligence to re-engineer Earth

From the article: "My motto, a play on the CIA motto that is disgraced every day, is 'the truth at any cost lowers all other costs'", he tells me. "Others wiser than I have pointed out that nature bats last. We are at the end of an era in which lies can be used to steal from the public and the commons. We are at the beginning of an era in which truth in public service can restore us all to a state of grace."

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2014/jun/19/open-source-revolution-conquer-one-percent-cia-spy

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Larry what is the matter with Ms. Conway? I have been hearing of health problems for about a year now. I just read that COPA will no longer be holding conferences in Dallas due to the passing of John Judge. Does this mean that Lancer will not hold conferences as well? Or is it just the forum that is closed? Thanks.

I am glad the 50th anniversary was such a success for both conferences.

Dawn

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Dawn, I'm hesitant to go into too much detail on health in a public forum, Email me at larryjoe@westok.net and I can give you a bit more.

In general, Deb has been hampered for several years with severe asthma which comes and goes, she can be fine one day and going to the emergency

room the next. That happened at the conference where she had to miss the entire last day. When the bad attacks hit she can end up in the hospital and

then ordered to bed rest for weeks. What makes it really bad, when she felt good she would want to start all sorts of things and then bingo, in a day or so

she wouldn't even be able to do email for a week. Ultimately that was a big factor since he precluded her getting into new publishing projects and sometimes

finishing ones she had started. Same thing with keeping the forum going. Last year I think she had at least two or more emergency room episodes which

were quite critical and she had so many battles with the city about the anniversary I think that really wore her down as well.

There are some complicating health problems as well, plus she - as a grandmother - is raising two teenage girls, long story there but that demands a great

deal of time and effort in itself.

So, running JFK Lancer on a day to day basis as she had in the past really is not an option. She has had conversations with a handful of folks who would like to keep

it going and perhaps even run some mini conferences but that just had not come together yet. Anyone getting into it faces fronting some money and that is always

a nervous thing. The 50th conference was fantastic as I think the attendees will tell you but Deb spent her career in retail marketing and always wants to do everything right

for her events - and that can get very expensive. At this point I think its just unclear, JFK Lancer may continue, it may not. Same for a Dallas conference. As time passes the

odds get a bit worse I'm afraid. Three or four folks who really wanted to keep it going would be enough, just don't know if that would jell; Deb of course desperately wants it to

go on and might be able to help a bit but for the past several years its been all her and that just doesn't work anymore.

-- Larry

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So where do we stand now in regards to the forum closing? In light of all the people who have offered to help financially, is John willing to keep it going?

This forum has been a great resource. We all hope it will stay online.

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