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Braden photographed?


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#1 James Richards

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Posted 08 November 2004 - 01:50 PM

It has been generally accepted that Jim Braden aka Eugene Hale Brading was photographed wandering through Dealey Plaza not long after the assassination. I was hoping to get some opinions from forum members whether or not they believe the ID is rock solid or is there some room for doubt.

James

#2 Guest_Wim Dankbaar_*

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Posted 08 November 2004 - 02:07 PM

I think it is pretty solid, as I believe Chauncey Holt, who said he did not recognize Braden at first, because he was wearing a cowboy hat.



Jim Braden was there. I didn't recognize him at first, because he had a hat on with some kind of Texas style hat band on it, and I didn't know him all that well, if you know what I mean. But I knew that I recognized him like I recognize you.


Wim

#3 Ron Ecker

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Posted 08 November 2004 - 02:34 PM

Jim Braden was arrested in or outside the Dal-Tex Building, and was taken in for questioning. He was therefore not walking around in the plaza.

#4 Guest_Wim Dankbaar_*

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Posted 08 November 2004 - 04:40 PM

Ron,


Has it ever occurred to that in order to be taken in police questioning , he had to be taken OUT of the Daltex building?

Wim

#5 Ron Ecker

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Posted 08 November 2004 - 04:50 PM

Wim,

Why would they walk him out to the plaza instead of putting him into a squad car? Or was the idea to parade him around like the "tramps"?

On Holt, has it occurred to you that maybe Chauncey saw a photo of a guy in the plaza wearing a "cowboy hat," and he decided that was going to be Jim Braden in his story?

Ron

#6 Ron Ecker

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Posted 09 November 2004 - 03:58 AM

Gary Mack has referred me to the signed statement that Braden made at the sheriff’s office, at the following link:

http://www.history-m...Vol19_0244a.htm

As I told Gary, I find Braden’s story hard to swallow. I don't believe that Braden just happened to be walking down Elm at the time of the shooting (or was just coincidentally in the vicinity of the RFK hit 5 years later), listened to some folks talk about the shooting in the plaza, and then went into Dal-Tex to look for a phone. This gangster was at the plaza to play some role in the assassination. And I don't think he or anyone else involved, after all the planning that went into it, would then have to go searching haphazardly for a phone somewhere, instead of going on about his business, which would be to leave Dealey Plaza. I therefore suspect that his walking around in the plaza first and then going into the building to look for a phone is a cover story for the fact that he was in the building all along, which is why he got arrested. And the man in the plaza with the hat would therefore not be Braden, though there may be some resemblance. But of course there's no way to prove it.

#7 Jack White

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Posted 09 November 2004 - 06:54 AM

It has been generally accepted that Jim Braden aka Eugene Hale Brading was photographed wandering through Dealey Plaza not long after the assassination. I was hoping to get some opinions from forum members whether or not they believe the ID is rock solid or is there some room for doubt.

James

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



James...I think this is settled. It is NOT BRADEN.

Jack

#8 Guest_Wim Dankbaar_*

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Posted 09 November 2004 - 10:32 AM

That statement of Braden is pretty interesting.

It looks like he says he was walking on Elm trying to take a cab. He seems to say he's coming FROM the Triple underpass towards the TSBD (I moved on up to the building accross the street from the building they were surrounding) and apparently missed the shooting completely, because people tell him about it.

This sounds totally incredible to me. How could he have missed the shooting? And where was he coming from? And why did he have to make this telephone call so urgently and suddenly? Why didn't he go back to the office he just came from, whatever that was?

And he did not know the President was coming by?

A very shaky story and they let the man go?

Wim

#9 Guest_Wim Dankbaar_*

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Posted 09 November 2004 - 04:02 PM

Apparently one of the people who identified Braden from the photograph was Dallas Chief Criminal Deputy Alllen Sweatt. I also read he was arrested in the Daltex THIRTY minutes after the shooting. If that is true he could well have been photographed in Dealey Plaza right after the shooting.

Wim


http://www.memresear...iliar_faces.htm

In a photograph of the crowd in Dealey Plaza minutes after the shooting, snapped by Dallas Times Herald photographer William Allen, an individual is visible in a trench coat, wide-brimmed hat and dark glasses. Dallas Chief Criminal Deputy Alan Sweatt, who assisted in processing Dealey-Plaza witnesses, identified him as Jim Braden [18]. Indeed, comparison with an earlier mug-shot of Eugene Hale Brading reveals a likeness.

There was at least one other visitor from out-of-town in Dealey Plaza on that fateful Friday afternoon, whose career was even more checkered than Joseph Milteer's: Jim Braden. Approximately thirty minutes after the assassination, Mr. Braden's presence in the Dal-Tex Building, directly across Houston Street from the Texas School Book Depository, aroused suspicion and led to his being taken into police custody. After providing a statement, he was allowed to leave. In fact, Mr. Braden had changed the name on his driver's license just 10 weeks before, from Eugene Hale Brading [5]; if the police had checked their records for that name, they might have held him for further questioning. Brading's lengthy police record included arrests in Dallas, and he had complex ties with Mafiosi [6, 7].

On parole at the time, permission to travel from Los Angeles was contingent upon his reporting to the Federal Parole Office in Dallas, which he did on November 21. The Parole Officer's report states that Brading's plans included seeing tycoon Lamar Hunt on oil business [8]. Although Brading subsequently denied visiting Mr. Hunt [9], it is noteworthy that Jack Ruby, on November 21, visited the building that housed the corporate offices of the Hunt Oil Company [10]. Furthermore, Brading lodged at the Cabana motel, on the Stemmons Freeway close to Dealey Plaza, which was visited by Ruby late in the evening of November 21 [11].

Larry Florer was taken into police custody also as a result of being a stranger in the Dal-Tex Building. In his statement, he claimed not to have been in Dealey Plaza at the time of the shooting, but made his way there after hearing a radio broadcast in a café [12]. Braden, in his statement, made no mention of his location at the time of the shooting [13], which is odd inasmuch as he was taken in for questioning, presumably, with reference to what he had observed of the shooting of the president: "I am here on business (oil business) and was walking down Elm Street trying to get a cab and there wasn't any. I heard people talking saying, 'My God the President has been shot.'"

--------------------

I also asked Groden why he believes the man in the hat is Braden:

He was identified by several people as being Brading and he never denied it when I originally wrote about him in 1976. He was arrested in Dealey Plaza soon after this photograph was taken.


Robert

#10 Denis Morissette

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Posted 09 November 2004 - 07:07 PM

I think the man seen with RHO in photo posted by Jack White is a better match than Jim Braden.

I have corresponded with Braden's attorney who represented him during the HSCA investigation. I guess it is time for me to email him again! I would be interested to find out more from him about Braden's libel suit against Bernard Fensterwald and Peter Noyes.

http://www.geocities...Trombly,Kenneth

1981 Document on Braden:

http://www.geocities...0073-10226.html

Edited by Denis Morissette, 09 November 2004 - 07:11 PM.


#11 Bill Miller

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Posted 09 November 2004 - 09:02 PM

There were lots of mystery men in and around the plaza possibly, but the two men in these images are not one and the same person from what I can see. When their noses are sized to match in height and width - other dimensions pertaining to the face and head do not match. While they appear similar at a glance - distances from certain reference points on their head are completely different from one another.

Edited by Bill Miller, 09 November 2004 - 09:15 PM.


#12 Guest_Wim Dankbaar_*

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Posted 09 November 2004 - 09:54 PM

It is interesting that purportedly Alan Sweatt identified Braden from that photograph. How and Why? Was it because he had seen Braden that day coming in for questioning and recognised his hat and glasses?

Wim

#13 Bill Miller

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Posted 09 November 2004 - 11:08 PM

It is interesting that purportedly Alan Sweatt identified Braden from that photograph. How and Why? Was it because he had seen Braden that day  coming in for questioning and recognised his hat and glasses?

Wim

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



I've never followed the Braden stuff much, but the sunglasses on these two men may be the same style which hardly makes them the same person. In them days there was not a big selection of sunglasses like there is today. I recall seeing some photos where even JFK was wearing a pair just like them. The two hats and the clothing doesn't match exactly either.

In the clip attached below is supposed to be a man named Ernest Brandt. Ernest said he didn't wear sunglasses on the day of the assassination, nor did he admit to ever smoking a pipe. The man in the clip seems to be wearing dark glasses and I bet that if we could have seen a good clear image of this man up close that he, too would have glasses on just like the two men in the Braden comparison. That horned rimmed style was worn by about everyone in 63'.

Edited by Bill Miller, 09 November 2004 - 11:11 PM.


#14 Ron Ecker

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Posted 10 November 2004 - 04:46 AM

deleted

Edited by Ron Ecker, 10 November 2004 - 04:49 AM.


#15 Shanet Clark

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Posted 10 November 2004 - 05:41 AM

Good thread.
Braden has always been a top suspect.
The fact that he and Larrie Florer tell the same lame story
indicts them both...the 11/22 statement signed by Braden
makes no sense, as Ron and Wim say. How can you walk down
Elm Street looking for a cab during the parade and not see anything.
He was up in the window shooting, or running a radio, or something.
But Like I said Before, Chauncy Holt just threw him in there, because Holt and the other two Tramps were in the boxcar until 2:30 and would have missed Braden
after the fact. Does Holt say he saw Braden before the shooting at say 12:00
What time were the Tramps photographed, I think Holt is stretching it with seeing Braden...but I think Braden is a major link to the tried and true Lamar Hunt/H.L. Hunt conspiracy theory...




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