Who saw Baker enter the TSBD?

[Robert Prudhomme]

Thanks, Thomas, I'd forgotten about Thierry Speth.

I did try to contact Gloria's brother by phone but I barely got six words out before he hung up on me. I guess he's had his share of annoyance calls over the years.

[Thomas Graves]

Thanks, Thomas, I'd forgotten about Thierry Speth.

I did try to contact Gloria's brother by phone but I barely got six words out before he hung up on me. I guess he's had his share of annoyance calls over the years.

Yes, I know. During the 4th of July weekend, wasn't it?

Have you seen my recent post about "K. Hicks" and her 70-something husband (?), James Daniel Hicks, of Texarkana, Texas, I found on Intelius? If you click on "K Hicks" near the bottom of his Intelius page, you'll see that one of the places she used to live in was Irving, Texas.

Why don't you call him and politely ask him to put you in contact with Karan (so that she can look at the 11/22/63 photos of "Calvery, Reed, and Hicks -- but don't tell him that -- you know, so she can tell you if the identifications of those three women by Thierry Speth were accurate?).

Suggestion: Call him after the Holidays, and start off by saying, "Hello, my name is Robert Prudhomme. I'm doing some historical research on the South-Western Publishing Company and it's former employees, and I was wondering if I could please speak with Karan Hicks for a few seconds?"

If you write a letter, instead, address it to Mrs. James Hicks (or Mrs. James D. Hicks) at his address (but not "in care of" or "C/O"), and enclose copies of the photos, your phone number and address, and tell her to please feel free to answer your questions my mail, "or, if it's more convenient for you, please let me know by mail when would be a convenient day and time for me to call you."

(I suggest that you first send the letter, and if you don't hear from him (or her) in two weeks, call him and say to him what I suggested, above.)

You are very, very fortunate that she has an unusual first name (unlike "Carol" as in Carol Reed), that she identified herself as "Mrs. James Daniel (Karan) Hicks" in her FBI statement, and that I was, therefore, able to find her for you, Bob. Probably.

Good luck!,

--Tommy

Edited December 22, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Robert Prudhomme]

How come I gotta do all the dirty work?

[Thomas Graves]

How come I gotta do all the dirty work?

Well, gosh, Bob. You are the one who seems to be obsessed with finding Calvery in Couch / Darnell, etc.

I figured a good way of ID-ing her for sure in any 11/22/63 photo or film (so she can be spotted in other photos and films) would be to ask one of the women with whom she claimed to have witnessed the assassination (Reed, Hicks, and Westbrook) "whether or not Thierry Speth identified Gloria correctly down there by the Stemmons sign."

Just a suggestion.

BTW, I still don't understand what your ideal scenario for Calvery would be. Standing on the "island" during the motorcade? Standing by the Thornton sign during the motorcade? Standing with "Reed" and "Hicks" by the Stemmons sign during the motorcade? Shooting at JFK from a TSBD window during the motorcade?

In answering this question, just forget what she said, and forget what Reed and Hicks and Westbrook said, and forget about Thierry Speth's alleged "identification" of her, and forget about what we know she looked like from her high school year book and her wedding picture, etc.

Where do you want her to be and what do you want her to do in order for your theory-in-progress about Shelley and Lovelady and Baker and Truly and Oswald "to work"?

Please don't go into any detail here about those characters.

The Question For Robert Prudhomme: Where do you want Gloria Jean Calvery to be during the motorcade, and what do you want her to for the first few minutes after it, you know, to make your theory-in-progress "work"?

--Tommy

Edited December 22, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

How come I gotta do all the dirty work?

Well, gosh, Bob. You are the one who seems to be obsessed with finding Calvery in Couch / Darnell, etc.

I figured a good way of ID-ing her for sure in any 11/22/63 photo or film (so she can be spotted in other photos and films) would be to ask one of the women with whom she claimed to have witnessed the assassination (Reed, Hicks, and Westbrook) "whether or not Thierry Speth identified Gloria correctly down there by the Stemmons sign."

Just a suggestion.

BTW, I still don't understand what your ideal scenario for Calvery would be. Standing on the "island" during the motorcade? Standing by the Thornton sign during the motorcade? Standing with "Reed" and "Hicks" by the Stemmons sign during the motorcade? Shooting at JFK from a TSBD window during the motorcade?

In answering this question, just forget what she said, and forget what Reed and Hicks and Westbrook said, and forget about Thierry Speth's alleged "identification" of her, and forget about what we know she looked like from her high school year book and her wedding picture, etc.

Where do you want her to be and what do you want her to do in order for your theory-in-progress about Shelley and Lovelady and Baker and Truly and Oswald "to work"?

Please don't go into any detail here about those characters.

The Question For Robert Prudhomme: Where do you want Gloria Jean Calvery to be during the motorcade, and what do you want her to for the first few minutes after it, you know, to make your theory-in-progress "work"?

--Tommy

Bumped for Mr. Robert Prudhomme, who seems to be avoiding it.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Robert Prudhomme]

Anyone ever told you that you are a bit of a horse's ass, Thomas?

[Thomas Graves]

Anyone ever told you that you are a bit of a horse's ass, Thomas?

Well, you sure should know what they look like, Bobby.

BTW, You still singin' that old farmer's song, "Oh, Horsie Keep Your Tail Up" ?

The lyrics are quite ... repetitive. You know.

Until you get to the end.

" Oh My God! Yeeessss! Yeeessss! Yeeeesssssssss!!! "

--Tommy

PS And your goats? How are your goats doing?

Edited December 23, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Robert Prudhomme]

bump

Thought I'd revive this old thread, in light of new evidence revealed at the ROKC.

I'm a bit disturbed to see that the posts of members Bart Kamp and Randy Sorenson have been deleted in entirety.

[Robert Prudhomme]

How come I gotta do all the dirty work?

Well, gosh, Bob. You are the one who seems to be obsessed with finding Calvery in Couch / Darnell, etc.

I figured a good way of ID-ing her for sure in any 11/22/63 photo or film (so she can be spotted in other photos and films) would be to ask one of the women with whom she claimed to have witnessed the assassination (Reed, Hicks, and Westbrook) "whether or not Thierry Speth identified Gloria correctly down there by the Stemmons sign."

Just a suggestion.

BTW, I still don't understand what your ideal scenario for Calvery would be. Standing on the "island" during the motorcade? Standing by the Thornton sign during the motorcade? Standing with "Reed" and "Hicks" by the Stemmons sign during the motorcade? Shooting at JFK from a TSBD window during the motorcade?

In answering this question, just forget what she said, and forget what Reed and Hicks and Westbrook said, and forget about Thierry Speth's alleged "identification" of her, and forget about what we know she looked like from her high school year book and her wedding picture, etc.

Where do you want her to be and what do you want her to do in order for your theory-in-progress about Shelley and Lovelady and Baker and Truly and Oswald "to work"?

Please don't go into any detail here about those characters.

The Question For Robert Prudhomme: Where do you want Gloria Jean Calvery to be during the motorcade, and what do you want her to for the first few minutes after it, you know, to make your theory-in-progress "work"?

--Tommy

Bumped for Mr. Robert Prudhomme, who seems to be avoiding it.

BTW, Thomas, I might point out that it is not a matter of where I WANT Gloria Calvery to be that is important. Where she actually was during the assassination, and what she did in the first few minutes following the assassination could well be one of the most important pieces of information yet.

[Guest]

Peggy Joyce Hawkins

It's the way she says that a motorcycle officer was seen by her after the shooting in front of the building, she does not say 'ran or into the building' but 'in front'.

If I combine that with the fact that hardly anyone but Pauline Sanders (G. Reid's friend and we know how fishy her story is) saw Baker blaze past into the front entrance, it more or less points to Baker standing outside longer than has been acknowledged overall. Also take Sanders' memo into consideration that she hears Reid's story about Oswald through the phone. Only to strengthen Reid's BS encounter with Oswald.

Hawkins' affidavit is corroborated in two ways. The radio messages regarding the railroad yard happened at:12:30 "Have my office move all available men out of my office into the railroad yard to try to determine what happened in there and hold everything secure until Homicide and other investigators should get there".

Furthermore her name is on the so called roll call list, even though she is not a TSBD employee or for any other company in that building. Her spouse is though.

Still this is no dead cert, but someone like Buell Frazier could confirm this whether Baker went in right away or had a little powwow outside with Roy Truly first.

Need more evidence.

Edited January 23, 2016 by Bart Kamp

[David Josephs]

bump

Thought I'd revive this old thread, in light of new evidence revealed at the ROKC.

I'm a bit disturbed to see that the posts of members Bart Kamp and Randy Sorenson have been deleted in entirety.

Robert - had you seen this exchange with Wesley?

I am asking in a different thread, where Wesley is prior to the Darnell frames - he claims he's in the shadows and that Lovelady is below him and over to his right by the wall.

That he claims he not only stood there but didn't move and sees Lovelady and Shelley walk off to the RR yard... but specifically does not confirm Baker running past him...

Either he is forgetting Baker or ???

Mr. BALL - The three of you didn't go any place?

Mr. FRAZIER - I believe Billy and them walked down toward that direction but I didn't. I just stood where I was. I hadn't moved at all.

Mr. BALL - Did you see anybody after that come into the Building while you were there?

Mr. FRAZIER - You mean somebody other that didn't work there?

Mr. BALL - A police officer.

Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir;

[Sandy Larsen]

Robert - had you seen this exchange with Wesley?

I am asking in a different thread, where Wesley is prior to the Darnell frames - he claims he's in the shadows and that Lovelady is below him and over to his right by the wall.

That he claims he not only stood there but didn't move and sees Lovelady and Shelley walk off to the RR yard... but specifically does not confirm Baker running past him...

Either he is forgetting Baker or ???

Mr. BALL - The three of you didn't go any place?

Mr. FRAZIER - I believe Billy and them walked down toward that direction but I didn't. I just stood where I was. I hadn't moved at all.

Mr. BALL - Did you see anybody after that come into the Building while you were there?

Mr. FRAZIER - You mean somebody other that didn't work there?

Mr. BALL - A police officer.

Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir;

David,

I'm not surprised at all that Frazier doesn't remember seeing officer Baker run into the TSBD. Because he didn't... at least not right away. I will be posting proof of that soon.

[Robert Prudhomme]

David and Sandy

What Wesley did NOT see, immediately after the assassination, has puzzled me greatly since it first occurred to me that Baker's immediate rush into the TSBD, alongside Truly, might have been a fabrication.

It is also very difficult to coordinate Shelley and Lovelady into this scene, as Shelley's first day statement has them crossing the street, meeting Gloria Calvery and discussing the assassination with her, and then proceeding down the Elm St. extension twenty-five steps before looking back to see Baker and Truly entering the TSBD. Quite a feat, considering Baker was supposed to be in the building within twenty seconds of the last shot.

I am very interested to see what proof Sandy Larsen has found that shows a later entrance into the TSBD by Baker.

[Guest]

The only thing I have found that speaks of a delayed entry of Baker is Eddie Piper's WC testimony.

Mr. BALL. Tell me what you heard?

Mr. PIPER. I heard one shot, and then the next shot went off-the one that

shot him and I got on up and went on back, back where they make coffee at

the end of the counter where I could see what happened and before I could get

there, the third shot went off, and I seen the people all running and in a few

minutes someone came in the building, and I looked up and it was the bossman

and a policeman or someone.

....................

Mr. BALL. You mentioned you saw Truly?

Mr. PIPER. I don’t know whether it was a policeman or FBI or who it was,

but another fellow was with him.

Mr. BALL. And where were you?

Mr. PIPER. Standing right there where they make coffee.

Mr. BALL. What did they do?

Mr. PIPER. He ran in and yelled, “Where is the elevator?” And I said, “I

don’t know, sir, Mr. Truly.”

They taken off and went on up the stairway and that’s all I know about

that.

But whether Piper can be trusted with this testimony and whether the timing of this is correct is a whole different kettle of fish.

He does not mention Baker's white helmet at all and doesn't know whether the man with Truly was Police or FBI which does not make him very reliable.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Bart Kamp

[Robert Prudhomme]

The only thing I have found that speaks of a delayed entry of Baker is Eddie Piper's WC testimony.

Mr. BALL. Tell me what you heard?

Mr. PIPER. I heard one shot, and then the next shot went off-the one that

shot him and I got on up and went on back, back where they make coffee at

the end of the counter where I could see what happened and before I could get

there, the third shot went off, and I seen the people all running and in a few

minutes someone came in the building, and I looked up and it was the bossman

and a policeman or someone.

....................

Mr. BALL. You mentioned you saw Truly?

Mr. PIPER. I don’t know whether it was a policeman or FBI or who it was,

but another fellow was with him.

Mr. BALL. And where were you?

Mr. PIPER. Standing right there where they make coffee.

Mr. BALL. What did they do?

Mr. PIPER. He ran in and yelled, “Where is the elevator?” And I said, “I

don’t know, sir, Mr. Truly.”

They taken off and went on up the stairway and that’s all I know about

that.

But whether Piper can be trusted with this testimony and whether the timing of this is correct is a whole different kettle of fish.

He does not mention Baker's white helmet at all and doesn't know whether the man with Truly was Police or FBI which does not make him very reliable.

Hi Bart

Eddie Piper's testimony is very interesting. I mean, seriously, could someone actually confuse a white helmeted motorcycle cop in boots and jodhpurs for a plain clothes FBI agent? And Mr. Piper claiming Truly asked him where the elevator was? Even if Truly was referring to which floor it was on, it still seems to be an odd question, when all Truly has to do is take a few more steps and look for himself. And, unless Mr. Piper was clairvoyant, how would he be expected to know which floor the elevator was on?

Instead of doubting the reliability of Mr. Piper, in that he could not distinguish a policeman from an FBI agent, and in that he recalled Truly crossing the main floor a few minutes after the last shot, shouldn't we be assuming, at least for the moment, Mr. Piper is correct in his claims? If Mr.Piper was the only witness to not support the official WC version, I would dismiss his testimony. However, considering the majority of witnesses on the steps of the TSBD did not even see a white helmeted police officer enter the building, I believe his testimony definitely worth examining.

Here is further testimony from Eddie Piper:

"Mr. BALL. You told us that after the shooting you came out onto the floor?

Mr. PIPER. That's right.

Mr. BALL. And the first people that you saw on the floor after the shooting was who?

388

Mr. PIPER. Mr. Truly and some fellow---I really don't know who it was; like I say, it was some fellow that was with Mr. Truly.

Mr. BALL. Some fellow; how was he dressed?

Mr. PIPER. Oh, I don't know.

Mr. BALL. Was he an officer?

Mr. PIPER. Yes; I believe he was an officer.

Mr. BALL. A police officer?

Mr. PIPER. Yes; a police officer.

Mr. BALL. Did he have a white helmet on?

Mr. PIPER. No; I don't think so. I didn't pay any attention to it. I was already excited over the shooting or something when he came running into the building.

Mr. BALL. And what did Truly and this--some fellow do?

Mr. PIPER. Well, Mr. Truly and this fellow run up the steps. He just hollered for the elevator and I said, "I don't know where it is at," and I'm still standing over there by that table and he ran up on up the steps with this police officer--him and another fellow and I was standing there and the people began swarming out and around--different ones coming in, but it was where nobody could come out.

Mr. BALL. They were the first ones to go up the steps?

Mr. PIPER. That's right.

Mr. BALL. Had anybody come down the steps before they went up the steps?

Mr. PIPER. No, sir.

Mr. BALL. They weren't the first ones to come down?

Mr. PIPER. Yes; and when the elevators come down---I really don't know who brought the elevators down, but I know nobody ever come down the steps.

Mr. BALL. Did you ever see Vicki Adams come down the steps?

Mr. PIPER. No, sir; I don't know about that, if she said she did, it was after I got over here and walked over to the back door.

Mr. BALL. Did Vicki Adams come down before Truly and the man went up the steps?

Mr. PIPER. No, sir, no, sir; she didn't do it."

Notice that, in this second testimonial of Mr. Piper's, Mr. Ball refrains from asking him how long after the last shot Truly came into the building, and now Piper only thinks the "policeman" was not wearing a white helmet, as he was quite confused. Also, no mention is made of the possibility of this "policeman" being an FBI agent. Notice, too, the extraction of the necessary testimony to deny the arrival on the main floor of Victoria Adams and Sandra Styles, prior to Truly ascending the stairs.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Robert Prudhomme